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chad72

Manning has high praise for Caldwell

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He always has. I wouldn't expect anything less out of him even if he detested him with his last strand of his being.

I think Caldwell is a good man. Manning obviously respects him, but he just wasn't the right man for the job.

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To be clear, what Manning did was endorse Caldwell as a Quarterbacks coach, but NOT as a Head Coach.

Not every talented assistant is meant to be a Head Coach. Not every talented coordinator is meant to be a HC. It's not always easy to know who is and who isn't cut out to be a good HC. The Colts took a shot with Caldwell. It got them to one Super Bowl (though we know how that turned out)

OK.... so, he's not a good HC. Doesn't mean he's not a good QB coach.

I know Christensen isn't popular around here for his work as the OC. OK. But I'm glad we kept him at the QB coach. That tells me we know he's good at that job. Otherwise, there was no reason to keep him. Glad he was willing to stay despite the demotion. The fit is a good one.

Just my two cents....

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You guys think Peyton will apologize to Jim?

For costing him his job lol.

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You guys think Peyton will apologize to Jim?

For costing him his job lol.

You could also say Caldwell cost P his job.

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You could also say Caldwell cost P his job.

haha so you think a mutual apology will take place on the field?

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haha so you think a mutual apology will take place on the field?

jimcaldwell.jpg

Well Peyton Manning is certainly a very talented Quarterback, and we certainly expect to play at a certain level. We plan to just do what we do, and if that doesn't work we'll certainly continue to do it. Obviously when you're playing against Peyton Manning, all you can certainly do is bend over and take it. Certainly all you can do is close your eyes and pretend it isn't happening.

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You guys think Peyton will apologize to Jim?

For costing him his job lol.

Do you think Jim apologized to Peyton and the other 52 for costing them a chance at a perfect season??

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“He’s very detail-oriented. He and I are very similar that way — very routine-oriented,” Manning said. “I miss being in his presence every day, because that was really a fun time that he and I had together...”

::Family Guy-esque flashback to 2010 in Caldwell's office::

Caldwell: "So Peyton, what gameplan do you have for me today?"

Peyton: "Well Jim, let's attack the A-Gap with Donald while we work 39-icecream I-form stretch to take advantage of the free safety."

Caldwell: "Hmm, go on..."

Peyton: "And their starting SAM linebacker's questionable, so let's attack over the middle to Wayne on the in-routes."

Caldwell: "Intriguing... Go on..."

Peyton: "W-What, you want more!? You're the head coach. What's your opinion?"

Caldwell: "I like it. Ergo, please proceed..."

Peyton: "Jim, are you a robot?"

Caldwell: (Uh oh, he's on to me!...) Umm, your forehead is so big, Tom Brady can imprint all four of his Superbowl rings!"

Peyton: "W-Wha, Brady doesn't have four rings..."

::Caldwell runs::

::Flash back to 2012::

Peyton: "Yea, those were the days..."

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Peyton Manning in reference to Jim Caldwell: "“I miss being in his presence every day, because that was really a fun time that he and I had together.”

Where in that statement does a 4 time MVP & SB Champion discuss, let alone touch on Mr. Caldwell's intelligence, aptitude, or skills as an OC? Not a ringing endorsement IMO.

The question isn't whether Jim is a likable guy or easy going...Can he do the job or not #18? My money says no because he is less than stellar at making on field adjustments. INDY proved this.

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He will always have high praise for him because he did nothing and Peyton was the one controlling everything. Peyton loved having control, Jim Caldwell teams without Peyton are not good, just look at Indy last year.

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Peyton Manning in reference to Jim Caldwell: "“I miss being in his presence every day, because that was really a fun time that he and I had together.”

I always remember what #18 said to reporters at the start of the Colts 2nd SB appearance in 2009: "There isn't a lot of coaching going on right now. I can assure you of that."

Who was HC in 2009 again? Ah yes, Jim Caldwell. Enough said...

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He will always have high praise for him because he did nothing and Peyton was the one controlling everything. Peyton loved having control, Jim Caldwell teams without Peyton are not good, just look at Indy last year.

Actually no, the person controlling Caldwell like a string puppet or marionette was Bill & Chris Polian not Peyton Manning.

polian.jpg

sunnymarionettes.jpg

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I think this says a lot.

” Manning said. “I can speak to him as a person and what kind of a coach he was to me.”

But Manning, who called Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti to endorse Caldwell before he was hired as their quarterbacks coach in January, deflected questions about the Ravens promoting Caldwell to offensive coordinator. Caldwell replaced Cam Cameron, who was fired on Monday.

“All I’m going to do is speak to just how helpful Jim was to me,”

The fact that he refused comment on Caldwell's abilities to call plays tell's me that he's basically saying, If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

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Peyton Manning in reference to Jim Caldwell: "“I miss being in his presence every day, because that was really a fun time that he and I had together.”

I always remember what #18 said to reporters at the start of the Colts 2nd SB appearance in 2009: "There isn't a lot of coaching going on right now. I can assure you of that."

Who was HC in 2009 again? Ah yes, Jim Caldwell. Enough said...

I'd love to see the rest of that quote. I can't help but think you're taking that quote from Peyton completely out of context. If he really said that, I would think that it would've made the ESPN circuit and been blown out of proportion around that time. It's a little disingenuous on your part to cut and paste segments of a quote to fit an agenda like that.

Not a Caldwell fan by any means, but now you guys are just piling it on him for no reason. Let it go, he's gone

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Here were his full un-edited quotes:

On what he learned from Baltimore Offensive Coordinator Jim Caldwell

“Jim Caldwell had a tremendous influence on me as my quarterbacks coach. He was very organized, very detail-oriented, which I’m a fan of that philosophy, and he and I got into a good routine in meetings and on the practice field every day for the time we were together when he was my quarterbacks coach. I really felt he took my game to another level. He’s also been a tremendous friend to me and mentor. I miss being around him every day and I miss his friendship every day. That’s how I feel about Jim.”

On what he thinks about Caldwell moving up to offensive coordinator in Baltimore

“I’m not getting into that. I have great respect for both those guys. I’ve known [Former Baltimore Offensive Coordinator] Cam Cameron a long time. He recruited me at the University of Michigan years and years ago and, like I said, I can’t speak for Jim in that role there, I can just speak for Jim and what he meant for me and his friendship to me.”

Of course he also had to have a little bit of fun with a reporter.

On if it bothers him that he might have to throw a wet football in Baltimore

“Who’s giving that weather report on Wednesday? Denver local weather? National weather? You? Do you dabble in the meteorology field? Hey, if it does, it does.”

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I'd love to see the rest of that quote. I can't help but think you're taking that quote from Peyton completely out of context. If he really said that, I would think that it would've made the ESPN circuit and been blown out of proportion around that time. It's a little disingenuous on your part to cut and paste segments of a quote to fit an agenda like that.

Not a Caldwell fan by any means, but now you guys are just piling it on him for no reason. Let it go, he's gone

He said it, I think it was mostly in reference to Metzelares replacing Mudd and Christensen/Reich replacing Moore/Christensen, but like southwest said Caldwell was the one in charge at that point.

Here is the full raw quotes from that press conference. It made its rounds on espn when it was said, but he was 100% correct & honest.

Player Quotes

QUARTERBACK PEYTON MANNING (on gaining continuity with receivers) Tuesday, May 26, 2009

“Well, that’s what we’re continuing to form. This morning at eight o’clock I threw with Donald Brown and Austin Collie. I try to take two guys a day and have a little individual session with them. We just take three or four routes and try to master those routes instead of throwing one repetition of each route. We kind of master three or four of our most basic routes. That’s what Marvin (Harrison) and Reggie (Wayne) and I did for so many years and I’m just trying to do it with these young guys. But there’s no question that you do notice that certain guys aren’t here.

“I’ll tell you what really hit me hard. Two weeks ago we had our big fundraiser for St. Vincent Children’s Hospital, and we had a VIP reception in the locker room. We had the locker room dressed up like it would be on game day, everybody’s name plates, everybody’s uniform and jersey in there. It was really a neat thing for fans that don’t get to see that behind-the-ropes scene. What hit me hard was that I got there first, and saw the lockers, and I saw Reggie Wayne’s locker and I saw that blank locker right there next to it, which of course is No. 88 Marvin Harrison. But that kind of hit me, but some of those things will happen along the way here and remind you of the way things used to be. I don’t know if you ever totally get over it, if you ever get use to it, but you do have to adjust and Coach Dungy always taught us that and Coach Caldwell is preaching that, especially during this time with some of the things that are going on right now.”

QUARTERBACK PEYTON MANNING (on which offseason change has been the hardest for him) Tuesday, May 26, 2009

“I think we’re still in the middle of them right now and seeing how they are going to play out. I think everybody is getting to know Coach Caldwell. I feel like I know him as quarterbacks coach, but I’m getting to know him as a head coach. Every team meeting I’m sitting up in the front row, up right, with my pen and paper out. Everybody wants to make a good impression on the new coach. He told us in the first team meeting that he’s 54 years old, Coach Dungy has a big influence on him, he’s going to do some things the way Coach Dungy did them, a lot of things he’s going to do his own way. That’s how he feels is the right way to do it. So, everybody has to be prepared to adjust and certainly without Marvin here it will be a big adjustment. Whether it will be Anthony Gonzalez, Pierre Garcon or Austin Collie those guys have to step up. There are some open positions out there. Some guys are going to go out there and earn some spots.”

QUARTERBACK PEYTON MANNING (on now knowing how the situation with Tom Moore and Howard Mudd is going to play out) Tuesday, May 26, 2009

“I really can’t tell you that I know what’s going on. I will say that I don’t think it’s been the most properly communicated scenario around here. We have learned to deal with change and be prepared to adjust. It’s still somewhat of an open book the last I’ve heard of it. The thing right now we work on is, during these individual sessions and individual drills, is working on my footwork and my quarterback skills. The next two weeks of team work we’ll be working on our basic fundamental plays before training camp starts. That’s what we’re focused on right now. We’ll see what happens once training camp rolls around.”

QUARTERBACK PEYTON MANNING (on Moore and Mudd coming back as consultants)Tuesday, May 26, 2009

“It’s really hard for me to answer. I really don’t know what the word ‘consultant’ means and I don’t know if anybody does. I know Tom Moore always told me that consultant was kind of a scary word. All a consultant ever did was come in and second guess every play call that you made. However that plays out, I’m not ready to give you my closing remarks on Tom and Howard, let me say that much. Tom and I did have a meeting three weeks ago and it was somewhat of an emotional meeting, it was at 7 a.m., we were saying good bye, not knowing if it was official or not. But we took the time to share some personal thoughts, and that’s hard to do in an hour meeting after 11 years of being together, a lot of meetings and a lot of private conversations in his office or at a timeout where Coach Dungy would be out there, Coach Moore and maybe (Jim) Sorgi would, and all of a sudden they kind of break away and it’s that last little thing Tom tells me, there’s that one little moment there. Howard and I somewhat of the same way. So, we’ll see how that plays out toward the end here, but I think right now everybody is trying to focus on doing their individual job better up through mini-camp and the last OTA.”

QUARTERBACK PEYTON MANNING (on the offensive system being in place for the most part) Tuesday, May 26, 2009

“I would say that. We are always looking to tweak things and change things and see who is going to fit into the system. I wouldn’t say I totally like the way it is right now. It’s not normal not having a full coaching staff. I know we hired a couple of guys to come in but these guys are learning. They aren’t offering a lot of coaching out there, I can assure you of that. It’s not a situation that I’m just thrilled about and like I said, I think communication has been pretty poor in my opinion, but it’s what we’re dealing with. The hard work is what is going on right now and that’s the most important thing and I think that’s what will carry us through. It’s good for Donald Brown and Austin Collie to see how hard (Anthony) Gonzalez works and see how hard (Joseph) Addai works and whoever it may be to really set the tone. This offseason work is a lot about players sort of setting the tempo and the coaches have always let the players set the tempo. That’s what is going on right now.

QUARTERBACK PEYTON MANNING (on communication about Moore and Mudd’s situation) Tuesday, May 26, 2009

“I really don’t know anymore than what you know. Somebody says one thing and then somebody else says another thing. I’m not sure everybody is completely on the same page in this building. So, I’m just trying to focus on playing quarterback well. These individual sessions that we have with these young receivers really pay off. I can remember last year having about two private 45-minute sessions with Gijon Robinson just working on some things. You don’t know when it’s going to come to fruition. I remember the Cincinnati game last year when all of the sudden he has eight catches and Dallas (Clark) is wondering what is going on, ‘All these balls that use to come to me are going to Gijon.’ I’m telling you I feel that work in the third week of May, and some of those things he and I talked about, and all of a sudden it gave him confidence and it gave me confidence to go to him. So, we hope those pay off for these young guys somewhere in the course of the season.”

QUARTERBACK PEYTON MANNING (on the importance of Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon or Roy Hall establishing themselves as the third receiver) Tuesday, May 26, 2009

“What I’ve told every one of those guys is that there is a receiver spot open right now. The plan if you had to say today would be, (Anthony) Gonzalez goes to the right, Reggie (Wayne) stays to the left, and that part I feel secure about. But there is a spot open there, either in the slot, or on third down, if Gonzalez or Reggie goes to the slot somebody comes in at that right or left. All three of those guys need to be saying, ‘Hey, that’s my job. That is my job to go win.’ One thing that has always been proven around here, that Coach Caldwell will handle the same way, is that they will give you a chance to compete. It doesn’t matter how old you are or how many years you’ve been here; if you win the job it is yours. That’s healthy and that goes for a lot of spots on the other side of the ball as well. I think that competition will make us all better.”

QUARTERBACK PEYTON MANNING (on his relationship with Clyde Christensen)Tuesday, May 26, 2009

“I’m not 100% ready to go into that what-if scenario, because I just don’t know, but I will say this about Clyde. Clyde and I spend a lot of time talking together during the week (over the years). He gives me great insight on the receivers and what they like, ‘Hey, Reggie thinks he can get deep on an out-and-up or Marvin knows he can beat (the defensive back) on a post corner. Gonzalez feels better about this route.’ And Clyde, for the most part the last few years, has been implementing our third-down package and our red-zone package, and I want to say, last year for sure, that we were No. 1 in both categories in third down and red-zone. Tom (Moore) has given him great flexibility and input or leeway, whatever the word is. Anytime Clyde has an idea Tom has let him offer that. It has been a healthy relationship. Clyde has been very instrumental on what we’ve done on offense and, no doubt, has had a huge impact on our receivers coaching them individually.”

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Peyton Manning in reference to Jim Caldwell: "“I miss being in his presence every day, because that was really a fun time that he and I had together.”

Where in that statement does a 4 time MVP & SB Champion discuss, let alone touch on Mr. Caldwell's intelligence, aptitude, or skills as an OC? Not a ringing endorsement IMO.

The question isn't whether Jim is a likable guy or easy going...Can he do the job or not #18? My money says no because he is less than stellar at making on field adjustments. INDY proved this.

Of course Peyton likes Jim Caldwell.....he had great success with him as coach..

Fans need a scapegoat for the 2-14 year and it was Caldwell...

without Peyton....Caldwell went 2-14.....its an oversimplification.....but that's what fans do.

We credit Peyton for the wins and we blame Caldwell for all the losses..

He would never see it that way.......

They are friends

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Of course Peyton likes Jim Caldwell.....he had great success with him as coach..

Fans need a scapegoat for the 2-14 year and it was Caldwell...

without Peyton....Caldwell went 2-14.....its an oversimplification.....but that's what fans do.

We credit Peyton for the wins and we blame Caldwell for all the losses..

He would never see it that way.......

They are friends

I said from the time Caldwell was named as Dungy's replacement that he didn't deserve the job. That was because he had never been anything more than a QB's coach in the NFL. Some of Caldwell's supporters said "well he got us to the SB in '09" and that is just not reality. We got there because of Manning and last yr. just proved that. I don't think that's oversimplification, that is just observation. Caldwell was in completely over his head from the get go as a HC. I know Manning liked him, I think most of the players liked him, but that don't mean any of them had even the slightest bit of confidence in him as a HC. It wasn't just Caldwell either for the 2-14 season. It was his entire coaching staff and the fact that Polian built a crap team around Manning. Polian certainly didn't do Caldwell any favors as far as not putting a quality team on the field.

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I said from the time Caldwell was named as Dungy's replacement that he didn't deserve the job. That was because he had never been anything more than a QB's coach in the NFL. Some of Caldwell's supporters said "well he got us to the SB in '09" and that is just not reality. We got there because of Manning and last yr. just proved that. I don't think that's oversimplification, that is just observation. Caldwell was in completely over his head from the get go as a HC. I know Manning liked him, I think most of the players liked him, but that don't mean any of them had even the slightest bit of confidence in him as a HC. It wasn't just Caldwell either for the 2-14 season. It was his entire coaching staff and the fact that Polian built a crap team around Manning. Polian certainly didn't do Caldwell any favors as far as not putting a quality team on the field.

Even if everything you say is true........that's still crediting Manning and blaming Caldwell......

Peyton doesnt see it your way....and he cant be expected to

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Even if everything you say is true........that's still crediting Manning and blaming Caldwell......

Peyton doesnt see it your way....and he cant be expected to

Well, I don't know if Manning see's it that way or not. He certainly isn't ever going to come out and say that Caldwell was a bad HC even if he truly felt that way. I guess I do credit Manning more than anybody else, to me, It's obvious for the reason why we won so many games when he was here and why we lost so many games when Manning couldn't play. Like I said, Im sure Caldwell is a great guy, but he is not HC material.

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Well, I don't know if Manning see's it that way or not. He certainly isn't ever going to come out and say that Caldwell was a bad HC even if he truly felt that way. I guess I do credit Manning more than anybody else, to me, It's obvious for the reason why we won so many games when he was here and why we lost so many games when Manning couldn't play. Like I said, Im sure Caldwell is a great guy, but he is not HC material.

let me put it this way....knowing what you do about Peyton Manning..... and with the respect you have for him...

..are you shocked and disappointed he spoke so fondly of Jim Caldwell to the media?

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let me put it this way....knowing what you do about Peyton Manning..... and with the respect you have for him...

..are you shocked and disappointed he spoke so fondly of Jim Caldwell to the media?

Absolutely not, Manning will never say anything bad about one of his coaches no matter how he feels inside about him. That's just not who Manning is. I find it kind of telling though, that he openly talked about how Caldwell was as a QB's coach, but declined to comment on his playcalling abilities. Caldwell, I'm sure was a good QB coach and IMO that is probably his niche in the coaching world, but unless he has dramatically educated himself in playcalling and scheming since last yr. then I don't think he will be very successful as an OC either.

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Even if everything you say is true........that's still crediting Manning and blaming Caldwell......

Peyton doesnt see it your way....and he cant be expected to

Even if Peyton agreed with that or felt more strongly about it, he's never going to say it. He's far too gracious to throw him under the bus like that.

I never blamed Caldwell for a losing record last season. I blame him for not being 6-10, 5-11 instead of 2-14. That part is on him. If he would have been competent enough to know that Kerry Collins had no way of performing in Manning's offense with a week to 10 days in it, and gave Collins a general I base offense that everyone could easily pick up then Collins wouldn't have looked as bad as he did. If he would have done the same with Painter, Painter would have looked more formidable out there. That is where Caldwell lost games last year. As others have pointed out, here and elsewhere there is no way this team should have been a 2-14 team last year. There was too much talent, but it lacked a head coach and competent coordinators.

I won't give Caldwell the credit for a 14-2 season. I think our poster Stephen wtih his Madden experience could have produced a great season with Manning @ Quarterback. I'll give him the blame for not being man enough to stand up to Polian when they concocted the Jets decision, so I'll give him credit for those 2 losses, but there was never an instance in his tenure here, that I could say that was a great move/call/decision by the head coach that won the game. Of course there is the Jets time out, the foolishness surrounding a Jaguars game or two that were horrible choices, but there wasn't once where I could say that Caldwell really helped with that win.

Yes the team faced injuries during Manning's final year on the field and there were players playing that wouldn't have been otherwise, some that would have remained on the practice squad, and some like to point to Caldwell for guiding that ship, well that's fine, but I'll give credit to the veteran leadership of 18/63/87/93/98/58/41/etc for turning that season around and pushing into the playoffs. It was Manning working overtime with White & Tamme trying to get them up to speed with replacing 44/17. It was 87 working with White on the side and coaching him up. 2010 wasn't pretty but making the playoffs actually felt like an achievement that year.

As others have said Caldwell wasn't the right man for the job because he didn't have the experience as a coordinator. I disagreed with it as soon as it was rumored to be happening so it's certainly not me second guessing it in hindsight. Caldwell is finally going to be getting some experience that could maybe see him return to a team as HC one day.

As I said in another post, he seems like a great guy. He just wasn't qualified to be the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts and he should have never been a consideration but that is on Dungy, Irsay & Polian.

Continuity is one thing, but a new direction might have worked wonders for those teams where Caldwell was the HC.

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Absolutely not, Manning will never say anything bad about one of his coaches no matter how he feels inside about him. That's just not who Manning is. I find it kind of telling though, that he openly talked about how Caldwell was as a QB's coach, but declined to comment on his playcalling abilities. Caldwell, I'm sure was a good QB coach and IMO that is probably his niche in the coaching world, but unless he has dramatically educated himself in playcalling and scheming since last yr. then I don't think he will be very successful as an OC either.

Like Manning said in the quotes above, he wasn't going to comment on the Ravens situation because he isn't there and he respects both Caldwell and Cam Cameron and wasn't going to throw either one of them under the bus.

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Even if Peyton agreed with that or felt more strongly about it, he's never going to say it. He's far too gracious to throw him under the bus like that.

I never blamed Caldwell for a losing record last season. I blame him for not being 6-10, 5-11 instead of 2-14. That part is on him. If he would have been competent enough to know that Kerry Collins had no way of performing in Manning's offense with a week to 10 days in it, and gave Collins a general I base offense that everyone could easily pick up then Collins wouldn't have looked as bad as he did. If he would have done the same with Painter, Painter would have looked more formidable out there. That is where Caldwell lost games last year. As others have pointed out, here and elsewhere there is now ay this team should have been a 2-14 team last year. There was too much talent, but it lacked a head coach.

I won't give Caldwell the credit for a 14-2 season. I think our poster Stephen wtih his Madden experience could have produced a great season with Manning @ Quarterback. I'll give him the blame for not being man enough to stand up to Polian when they concocted the Jets decision, so I'll give him credit for those 2 losses, but there was never an instance in his tenure here, that I could say that was a great move/call/decision by the head coach that won the game. Of course there is the Jets time out, the foolishness surrounding a Jaguars game or two that were horrible choices, but there wasn't once where I could say that Caldwell really helped with that win.

Yes the team faced injuries during Manning's final year on the field and there were players playing that shouldn't have been, and some like to point to Caldwell for guiding that ship, well that's fine, but I'll give credit to the veteran leadership of 18/63/87/93/98/58/41/etc for turning that season around and pushing into the playoffs. It was Manning working overtime with White & Tamme trying to get them up to speed with replacing 44/17. It was 87 working with White on the side and coaching him up. 2010 wasn't pretty but making the playoffs actually felt like an achievement that year.

As others have said Caldwell wasn't the right man for the job because he didn't have the experience as a coordinator. I disagreed with it as soon as it was rumored to be happening so it's certainly not me second guessing it in hindsight. Caldwell is finally going to be getting some experience that could maybe see him return to a team as HC one day.

As I said in another post, he seems like a great guy. He just wasn't qualified to be the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts and he should have never been a consideration but that is on Dungy, Irsay & Polian.

Continuity is one thing, but a new direction might have worked wonders for those teams where Caldwell was the HC.

Well said.

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Even if Peyton agreed with that or felt more strongly about it, he's never going to say it. He's far too gracious to throw him under the bus like that.

I never blamed Caldwell for a losing record last season. I blame him for not being 6-10, 5-11 instead of 2-14. That part is on him. If he would have been competent enough to know that Kerry Collins had no way of performing in Manning's offense with a week to 10 days in it, and gave Collins a general I base offense that everyone could easily pick up then Collins wouldn't have looked as bad as he did. If he would have done the same with Painter, Painter would have looked more formidable out there. That is where Caldwell lost games last year. As others have pointed out, here and elsewhere there is now ay this team should have been a 2-14 team last year. There was too much talent, but it lacked a head coach.

I won't give Caldwell the credit for a 14-2 season. I think our poster Stephen wtih his Madden experience could have produced a great season with Manning @ Quarterback. I'll give him the blame for not being man enough to stand up to Polian when they concocted the Jets decision, so I'll give him credit for those 2 losses, but there was never an instance in his tenure here, that I could say that was a great move/call/decision by the head coach that won the game. Of course there is the Jets time out, the foolishness surrounding a Jaguars game or two that were horrible choices, but there wasn't once where I could say that Caldwell really helped with that win.

Yes the team faced injuries during Manning's final year on the field and there were players playing that shouldn't have been, and some like to point to Caldwell for guiding that ship, well that's fine, but I'll give credit to the veteran leadership of 18/63/87/93/98/58/41/etc for turning that season around and pushing into the playoffs. It was Manning working overtime with White & Tamme trying to get them up to speed with replacing 44/17. It was 87 working with White on the side and coaching him up. 2010 wasn't pretty but making the playoffs actually felt like an achievement that year.

As others have said Caldwell wasn't the right man for the job because he didn't have the experience as a coordinator. I disagreed with it as soon as it was rumored to be happening so it's certainly not me second guessing it in hindsight. Caldwell is finally going to be getting some experience that could maybe see him return to a team as HC one day.

As I said in another post, he seems like a great guy. He just wasn't qualified to be the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts and he should have never been a consideration but that is on Dungy, Irsay & Polian.

Continuity is one thing, but a new direction might have worked wonders for those teams where Caldwell was the HC.

I dont want to refight 3 year old battles. I think you know I give Caldwell credit for the Super Bowl year, the 10-7 year and the 2-14 year

I just agree with you that Peyton manning is never going to bad mouth Jim Caldwell..

It would be out of character for him to talk down his former coaches..

...also as an aside..hats off to you on the return to relevancy of your screen name :hat:

..after Sunday..you can make guest appearences on the Baltimore Raven Message board

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I dont want to refight 3 year old battles. I think you know I give Caldwell credit for the Super Bowl year, the 10-7 year and the 2-14 year

I just agree with you that Peyton manning is never going to bad mouth Jim Caldwell..

It would be out of character for him to talk down his former coaches..

...also as an aside..hats off to you on the return to relevancy of your screen name :hat:

..after Sunday..you can make guest appearences on the Baltimore Raven Message board

There is nothing to fight or argue about.

I'll pass, I don't post on other teams boards.

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Of course Peyton likes Jim Caldwell.....he had great success with him as coach..

Fans need a scapegoat for the 2-14 year and it was Caldwell...

without Peyton....Caldwell went 2-14.....its an oversimplification.....but that's what fans do.

We credit Peyton for the wins and we blame Caldwell for all the losses..

He would never see it that way.......

They are friends

Yes, I will agree that QBs tend to get the bulk of the credit in victory & coordinators get the brunt of the criticism in a string of losses that is certainly true. But, no one is making Caldwell a scapegoat here. Good HCs find a way to adapt with substitute talent & still win or at least remain competitive.

If Caldwell was any good at leading men & making adjustments on the field more quickly Chuck Pagano/Bruce Arians would not be guiding the Colts right now Jim Caldwell would. Caldwell is not head coaching material period & I refuse to exonerate him or give him a pass. Can Caldwell lead an organization, a roster of 53 men? Nope.

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Of course Peyton likes Jim Caldwell.....he had great success with him as coach..

Fans need a scapegoat for the 2-14 year and it was Caldwell...

without Peyton....Caldwell went 2-14.....its an oversimplification.....but that's what fans do.

We credit Peyton for the wins and we blame Caldwell for all the losses..

He would never see it that way.......

They are friends

I could care less if Manning & Caldwell are friends. That's irrelevant. Do you think Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti gives a darn about whether or not the 2 are bosom buddies? Heck no. All employers in any job want to know 1 thing. Can you carry out the responsibilities/duties of the job description or not? I don't care if a person is a nice guy. As an NFL owner, I want my new appointed OC to move the ball, convert 3rd downs, score touchdowns & win games. It's Championship or bust every single year.

No, the point isn't that Manning & Caldwell had success together. The point is who carried who & can Caldwell duplicate similar success with another NFL QB not named Manning? That exactly what Steve Bisciotti wants to know period end of story.

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Peyton Manning in reference to Jim Caldwell: "“I miss being in his presence every day, because that was really a fun time that he and I had together.” I always remember what #18 said to reporters at the start of the Colts 2nd SB appearance in 2009: "There isn't a lot of coaching going on right now. I can assure you of that." Who was HC in 2009 again? Ah yes, Jim Caldwell. Enough said...
I'd love to see the rest of that quote. I can't help but think you're taking that quote from Peyton completely out of context. If he really said that, I would think that it would've made the ESPN circuit and been blown out of proportion around that time. It's a little disingenuous on your part to cut and paste segments of a quote to fit an agenda like that. Not a Caldwell fan by any means, but now you guys are just piling it on him for no reason. Let it go, he's gone

Rich Einsein, flagship host & TV personality of NFL Network, commented extensively on it in 2009. As a matter of fact, he was so shocked that the most media savvy person in football said it because Peyton Manning always knows what to say & he never has a derogatory word to say about anybody. Call up Rich & ask him yourself if you don't believe me.

"There isn't a lot of coaching going on right now. I can assure you of that." To be fair, Peyton was not signaling out any person specifically by name alone, but he was clearly upset over a lack of guidance and instruction on the offensive side of the ball. Caldwell naturally as HC and previously QBs Coach bears some culpability, fault, & blameworthiness for the team’s lack of production at the start of the 2009 season.

No again, no one is picking on Caldwell or "piling on him for no reason" sir. To quote Bill Parcells, "You are what your record says you are." Do I hate Jim Caldwell? No. Do I want him to fail? No. Does he deserve credit for his tenure as INDY's HC & the success they enjoyed in 2009? Not really. My problem with Caldwell is his failure to adapt & adjust in a timely fashion something he excelled in INDY & the reason he got fired. Will I keep an open mind & allow him to improve in this area? Okay sure.

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Since Bill Polian has a football show on Sirus Satellite Radio, I'd love to call in & ask him who bears the most responsibility in why the Colts slid of the NFL map when Manning got injured? Bill, by his own admission, had place to much faith in Curtis Painter to carry the field general load in #18's absence. GM's are supposed to prepare for every possible contingency or veteran injury on that roster & Manning Bursa Sac knee removal surgery should have been a sign of foreshadowing to Bill Polian too. What would the Colts do if Manning couldn't play & was out of the starting lineup?

Polian would never answer my question I know, but to be fair to Jim Caldwell the Colts front office made a poor decision in choosing to go with Kerry Collins & Curtis Painter & Jim can only coach the players that a GM provides him with.

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He said it, I think it was mostly in reference to Metzelares replacing Mudd and Christensen/Reich replacing Moore/Christensen, but like southwest said Caldwell was the one in charge at that point.

Here is the full raw quotes from that press conference. It made its rounds on espn when it was said, but he was 100% correct & honest.

Rich Einsein, flagship host & TV personality of NFL Network, commented extensively on it in 2009. As a matter of fact, he was so shocked that the most media savvy person in football said it because Peyton Manning always knows what to say & he never has a derogatory word to say about anybody. Call up Rich & ask him yourself if you don't believe me.

"There isn't a lot of coaching going on right now. I can assure you of that." To be fair, Peyton was not signaling out any person specifically by name alone, but he was clearly upset over a lack of guidance and instruction on the offensive side of the ball. Caldwell naturally as HC and previously QBs Coach bears some culpability, fault, & blameworthiness for the team’s lack of production at the start of the 2009 season.

No again, no one is picking on Caldwell or "piling on him for no reason" sir. To quote Bill Parcells, "You are what your record says you are." Do I hate Jim Caldwell? No. Do I want him to fail? No. Does he deserve credit for his tenure as INDY's HC & the success they enjoyed in 2009? Not really. My problem with Caldwell is his failure to adapt & adjust in a timely fashion something he excelled in INDY & the reason he got fired. Will I keep an open mind & allow him to improve in this area? Okay sure.

I still don't think it's fair to deduce that anything from Peyton's quote was meant to be a subtle jab at Caldwell. Consider the timing and circumstances around the quote, for starters. Peyton was still adjusting to some pretty drastic changes around that time. He lost his head coach (whom he won and super bowl with), his brain trust of 10+ seasons, Tom Moore's, return to the club was still certain, and he lost his top receiving threat, Marvin Harrison, of whom he's had the most history and familiarity with to an awkward and unceremonious retirement.

To me, that quote sounds like a guy still a little annoyed with having to adjust to major turnover within the organization. He'd gone to war with the aforementioned players and coaches, and had a great deal of success with them. He was accustomed to practices and preparation being done a certain way. To go from the comfort and familiarity that those in Peyton's football circle brought, to a bunch of rookie coaches and receivers, he was bound to be grumpy. When you're a successful organization, the team becomes a well oiled machine. When you lose key cogs in that machine, wheels are going to squeak and the machine doesn't run as smoothly.

Look, we all know Caldwell was a failure here. No need for argument on that. It's why he's not still coaching the Colts right now. Peyton said what he said, but I'm sure his intentions were not to throw his head coach under the bus before the season even started. It's not in his nature, and he's too media savvy to make such a mistake. If you want to read more into the quote than what's there, that's both of your prerogatives, but I disagree with you on it's interpretation.

I agree with you that Jim is not head coaching material... but guess what? He's not a head coach anymore, he's a coordinator. We don't know what he's capable of as a coordinator. The man obviously has SOME knowledge of the game, otherwise, he wouldn't be in the pro ranks, PERIOD. Some guys are meant to be just coordinators. Josh McDaniel's is a brilliant offensive mind... who has no business ever trying to be a head coach again. Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Todd Haley, etc... The list goes on. Does Jim have the capability to be one of those guys? Don't know, but it's fruitless (and pretty mean-spirited) to rag on the guy when he's no longer associated with the organization you root for. I don't much see the point in digging up old quotes from Peyton on the state of the Colts (after a major overhaul) and trying to spin it into Caldwell hate.

:deadhorse:

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He said it, I think it was mostly in reference to Metzelares replacing Mudd and Christensen/Reich replacing Moore/Christensen, but like southwest said Caldwell was the one in charge at that point.

The comment Manning made was specific to Moore and Mudd. They were still with the team as "consultants," and Manning was commenting on what was different about that role as opposed to the roles they previously held. A few days or weeks later, they worked the pension issue out, and Moore was made Senior Offensive Coordinator, and Mudd was back to being the offensive line coach. But during OTAs and such, they weren't doing what they normally would have done. And that's when Manning said what he said. It had nothing to do with Jim Caldwell.

To hear southwest tell it, this is something Manning said about Caldwell specifically, right before the Super Bowl. And that's just not the case.

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The comment Manning made was specific to Moore and Mudd. They were still with the team as "consultants," and Manning was commenting on what was different about that role as opposed to the roles they previously held. A few days or weeks later, they worked the pension issue out, and Moore was made Senior Offensive Coordinator, and Mudd was back to being the offensive line coach. But during OTAs and such, they weren't doing what they normally would have done. And that's when Manning said what he said. It had nothing to do with Jim Caldwell.

To hear southwest tell it, this is something Manning said about Caldwell specifically, right before the Super Bowl. And that's just not the case.

With all due respect Superman, I know exactly what I said. ""There isn't a lot of coaching going on right now. I can assure you of that." To be fair, Peyton was not signaling out any person specifically by name alone, but he was clearly upset over a lack of guidance and instruction on the offensive side of the ball. Caldwell naturally as HC and previously QBs Coach bears some culpability, fault, & blameworthiness for the team’s lack of production at the start of the 2009 season."

Please do NOT attempt to put words in my mouth, or claim that I said or imply that I said, something that I clearly did not say. Thank you. I know exactly what I said & I was very precise & clear. If you want to disagree with my point of view, fine that is your prerogative. However, the only people who can speak with authority on this manner are Jim Caldwell, Jim Irsay, Peyton Manning, & Bill Polian.

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I still don't think it's fair to deduce that anything from Peyton's quote was meant to be a subtle jab at Caldwell. Consider the timing and circumstances around the quote, for starters. Peyton was still adjusting to some pretty drastic changes around that time. He lost his head coach (whom he won and super bowl with), his brain trust of 10+ seasons, Tom Moore's, return to the club was still certain, and he lost his top receiving threat, Marvin Harrison, of whom he's had the most history and familiarity with to an awkward and unceremonious retirement.

To me, that quote sounds like a guy still a little annoyed with having to adjust to major turnover within the organization. He'd gone to war with the aforementioned players and coaches, and had a great deal of success with them. He was accustomed to practices and preparation being done a certain way. To go from the comfort and familiarity that those in Peyton's football circle brought, to a bunch of rookie coaches and receivers, he was bound to be grumpy. When you're a successful organization, the team becomes a well oiled machine. When you lose key cogs in that machine, wheels are going to squeak and the machine doesn't run as smoothly.

Look, we all know Caldwell was a failure here. No need for argument on that. It's why he's not still coaching the Colts right now. Peyton said what he said, but I'm sure his intentions were not to throw his head coach under the bus before the season even started. It's not in his nature, and he's too media savvy to make such a mistake. If you want to read more into the quote than what's there, that's both of your prerogatives, but I disagree with you on it's interpretation.

I agree with you that Jim is not head coaching material... but guess what? He's not a head coach anymore, he's a coordinator. We don't know what he's capable of as a coordinator. The man obviously has SOME knowledge of the game, otherwise, he wouldn't be in the pro ranks, PERIOD. Some guys are meant to be just coordinators. Josh McDaniel's is a brilliant offensive mind... who has no business ever trying to be a head coach again. Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Todd Haley, etc... The list goes on. Does Jim have the capability to be one of those guys? Don't know, but it's fruitless (and pretty mean-spirited) to rag on the guy when he's no longer associated with the organization you root for. I don't much see the point in digging up old quotes from Peyton on the state of the Colts (after a major overhaul) and trying to spin it into Caldwell hate.

:deadhorse:

First of all, did I attack Jim Caldwell's character? Did I say anything derogatory about his family, his personality, or his own private life? That's a no on all counts.

Hate: “To abhor someone or something on an almost visceral level. To express intense animosity and hostility for something on an irrational level almost to the point of sheer contempt, condemnation, and revulsion.” The implication being that a person’s conclusions are without merit and not grounded in fact.

I have said nothing unfounded or inflammatory about him as an individual. I merely pointed out are more that 1 occasion going all the way back to entries on Colts.com that Caldwell seemed to have some difficulty making game time adjustments in a quicker pace regarding making on field changes that's all. Where is this hate you speak of? And your beating a dead horse cartoon implies that I am pulling up an incident that occurred over a decade ago...We are only taking from 2009-2012 a duration of 3 years here. Hardly "beating a dead horse" ahf321.

I even commented "Will I keep an open mind & allow him to improve in this area? Okay sure." Does that sound like irrational hate filled speech to you? Hmmm...

"but it's fruitless (and pretty mean-spirited) to rag on the guy when he's no longer associated with the organization you root for." So, by that line of reasoning, if anyone moves to a different zip code, job, or organization we can never evaluate or critique a former colleague, co-worker, or employee? Strange... :scratch::dunno:

Look, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and yes anyone is free to disagree with me, but they are not entitled to claim that people who are evaluating a former OC & HC's tenure in Indianapolis are being petty & overcome with hate. Sorry ahf321, but your argument, not you personally, is incredibly flawed and weak on it's face. Thank you for sharing your perspective. It is immensely appreciated. Have a pleasant evening sir.

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First of all, did I attack Jim Caldwell's character? Did I say anything derogatory about his family, his personality, or his own private life? That's a no on all counts

Whether or not you attacked his character is up for debate. To me, when you come into a thread that originally highlighted a positive quote from Peyton Manning giving praise to Jim Caldwell, and post puppet pictures, question his intelligence, and FALSELY assert that Peyton took a verbal shot at Caldwell before the superbowl in 09', I'd qualify that as mudslinging and attacking one's character. If you want to word pinch, then no, you did not literally say that you 'hate' Jim Caldwell as a person, but your disdain for his tenure here certainly translated.

Hate: “To abhor someone or something on an almost visceral level. To express intense animosity and hostility for something on an irrational level almost to the point of sheer contempt, condemnation, and revulsion.” The implication being that a person’s conclusions are without merit and not grounded in fact.

I am fully aware of the definition of the word, thank you.

I have said nothing unfounded or inflammatory about him as an individual. I merely pointed out are more that 1 occasion going all the way back to entries on Colts.com that Caldwell seemed to have some difficulty making game time adjustments in a quicker pace regarding making on field changes that's all. Where is this hate you speak of? And your beating a dead horse cartoon implies that I am pulling up an incident that occurred over a decade ago...We are only taking from 2009-2012 a duration of 3 years here. Hardly "beating a dead horse" ahf321.

Caldwell's failures here as a head coach, and the colts community's general disapproval of him (myself included), is already well documented on these forums. To come in here and further state the obvious is beyond redundant at this point, and the definition of 'beating a dead horse'

I even commented "Will I keep an open mind & allow him to improve in this area? Okay sure." Does that sound like irrational hate filled speech to you? Hmmm..

This is after I already called you out for your initial post. You have been more controlled in your replies since, I do admit. It still doesn't change the fact that you were off-base in your assumption that Manning was calling out Caldwell in his quote that you referenced.

"but it's fruitless (and pretty mean-spirited) to rag on the guy when he's no longer associated with the organization you root for." So, by that line of reasoning, if anyone moves to a different zip code, job, or organization we can never evaluate or critique a former colleague, co-worker, or employee? Strange... :scratch::dunno:

As I said, Caldwell is gone. Everything that could be said about his tenure here as a head coach has already been said. You won't find many that will disagree with you that he was a poor head coach. What does that have to do with his abilities as a coordinator, or Manning's opinion of him as a coach and friend? You bring up the fact that he was horrible at making adjustments. Yep, we got that. Preaching to the choir......

Look, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and yes anyone is free to disagree with me, but they are not entitled to claim that people who are evaluating a former OC & HC's tenure in Indianapolis are being petty & overcome with hate. Sorry ahf321, but your argument, not you personally, is incredibly flawed and weak on it's face.

My only argument is, it is in poor taste to take someone's quotes out of context and use it to slander the work of another man. Caldwell's failure as a coach spoke for itself. No need to twist another man's words to further demonstrate his failures.

And superman was absolutely correct in what he said. Your original post I responded to did come off as if you were saying Peyton threw Caldwell under the bus before the superbowl:

I always remember what #18 said to reporters at the start of the Colts 2nd SB appearance in 2009: "There isn't a lot of coaching going on right now. I can assure you of that."

Whether or not that was your intent, is another issue entirely. The fact still remains that it was poorly worded and left itself open to scrutiny. Hence, my original response

Thank you for sharing your perspective. It is immensely appreciated. Have a pleasant evening sir.

Likewise, sir

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The comment Manning made was specific to Moore and Mudd. They were still with the team as "consultants," and Manning was commenting on what was different about that role as opposed to the roles they previously held. A few days or weeks later, they worked the pension issue out, and Moore was made Senior Offensive Coordinator, and Mudd was back to being the offensive line coach. But during OTAs and such, they weren't doing what they normally would have done. And that's when Manning said what he said. It had nothing to do with Jim Caldwell.

To hear southwest tell it, this is something Manning said about Caldwell specifically, right before the Super Bowl. And that's just not the case.

I was confirming the statement, and provided the full statement in its full glory.

I also added.

"He said it, I think it was mostly in reference to Metzelares replacing Mudd and Christensen/Reich replacing Moore/Christensen, but like southwest said Caldwell was the one in charge at that point."

As southwest said, Manning didn't mention Cladwell, Metzelares, Reich or Christensen or anyone by name, but it's not hard to read between the lines that he wasn't happy with the whole situation, the whole organization and the communication that they were providing. I'd compare it to his "walking on eggshells" comment before he was cut and told his services were no longer needed. It's easy to read between the lines that he wasn't happy with the communication.

I didn't view southwest's comments as him insinuating Manning threw Caldwell under the bus in May, before the Super Bowl, after any of the number of mistakes Caldwell could easily be called out on, or in 2012 when both are with other teams. He was simply pointing out a quote where Manning communicated with the media his dissatisfaction with something in the franchise.

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