Breaking New: Saints bounty suspensions have been Vacated.

[House]

Just broke through on NFL network.

Hopefully this can be put to rest now.

[PrincetonTiger]

wow

[House]

Drew Brees has taken to twitter about this. From his comments it seems he is blaming their entire season on this issue. Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

[PrincetonTiger]

Drew Brees has taken to twitter about this. From his comments it seems he is blaming their entire season on this issue. Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

wow

[RGIII]

Drew Brees has taken to twitter about this. From his comments it seems he is blaming their entire season on this issue. Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

You're reading into it a little too much.

[21isSuperman]

So, if I have this correctly, Tagliabue is saying the players are off the hook because it was a management/coaching-led program? That's a little ridiculous, isn't it? All of these guys are adults and should know better. I disagree with Tagliabue's decision.

[tyvon19]

Wait what about Sean Payton and Gregory

are they still suspended?

[21isSuperman]

Drew Brees has taken to twitter about this. From his comments it seems he is blaming their entire season on this issue. Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

Brees said something to the effect of "there are some thing you can't take back". I think that's directed more towards the reputation damages and allegations made. Whenever people hear Jon Vilma or Gregg Williams or New Orleans Saints, this bounty scandal will be one of the first things that goes through their head. I think that's what Brees meant

[21isSuperman]

Wait what about Sean Payton and Gregory

are they still suspended?

So far, yes. Only the players have been vacated

[PrincetonTiger]

Wait what about Sean Payton and Gregory

are they still suspended?

still suspended

[Synthetic]

Well I think the NFL had this all wrong, especially how they suspended our coach but Brees is still wrong. You can't blame our entire season on this, they still had a chance and they got out there and blew it. Brees himself deserves some of the blame, cause he just had to hold out and we spent all our money on him, not enough to bring Carl Nicks back, whom our offensive line needed, and also he's played terribly this season. He has his good games, and then when he has a bad one he makes sure you remember he's playing for stats.

I think Saints fans have over-evaluated the loss of Payton. He don't control this defense. Granted I think we beat Carolina, K.C. (We did win that one, if the replacement refs didn't call back 2 TD's) and even GB, but the rest of these loses? Not a chance. We would probably 6-7 or 7-6 with him.

[House]

You're reading into it a little too much.

Wouldn't be the first time

[House]

Brees said something to the effect of "there are some thing you can't take back". I think that's directed more towards the reputation damages and allegations made. Whenever people hear Jon Vilma or Gregg Williams or New Orleans Saints, this bounty scandal will be one of the first things that goes through their head. I think that's what Brees meant

Very true and valid points.

To me it just sounded like he lamenting on a lost season, because of all the chaos.

[House]

Well I think the NFL had this all wrong, especially how they suspended our coach but Brees is still wrong. You can't blame our entire season on this, they still had a chance and they got out there and blew it. Brees himself deserves some of the blame, cause he just had to hold out and we spent all our money on him, not enough to bring Carl Nicks back, whom our offensive line needed, and also he's played terribly this season. He has his good games, and then when he has a bad one he makes sure you remember he's playing for stats.

I think Saints fans have over-evaluated the loss of Payton. He don't control this defense. Granted I think we beat Carolina, K.C. (We did win that one, if the replacement refs didn't call back 2 TD's) and even GB, but the rest of these loses? Not a chance. We would probably 6-7 or 7-6 with him.

Well he never blamed the season on this directly, more or less my interpretation. But because he expressed himself in so few words its hard to get at what he was trying to say.

Either way hopefully this can all get put in the past.

[tyvon19]

bogie good luck next season with payton back and another year with spags i expect the saints to take the nfc south

[tyvon19]

that morgan kid is really good too

[Synthetic]

bogie good luck next season with payton back and another year with spags i expect the saints to take the nfc south

Thanks pal, I haven't lost a lot of sleep over this season. Kinda seen it coming just didn't want to believe it, and yeah Morgan is going to be a great receiver next year. I was hoping Toon would get some play time but I haven't seen him at all this season.

[bayone]

Well I think the NFL had this all wrong, especially how they suspended our coach but Brees is still wrong. You can't blame our entire season on this, they still had a chance and they got out there and blew it. Brees himself deserves some of the blame, cause he just had to hold out and we spent all our money on him, not enough to bring Carl Nicks back, whom our offensive line needed, and also he's played terribly this season. He has his good games, and then when he has a bad one he makes sure you remember he's playing for stats.

I think Saints fans have over-evaluated the loss of Payton. He don't control this defense. Granted I think we beat Carolina, K.C. (We did win that one, if the replacement refs didn't call back 2 TD's) and even GB, but the rest of these loses? Not a chance. We would probably 6-7 or 7-6 with him.

Brees has been wrong in many a statement to me and has played poorly, hes never IT's like this & cant blame that on a bad D & if is & trying to force throws to win or take lead early or take back lead late then hes feeling pressure to produce and he isn't handling it correctly, IF THATS THE CASE

also Nicks is on IR but if was a Saint maybe wouldnt of got hurt

Hey think of it this way, u will get a descent frat pick at least so future with those coming back appears brighter my friend

[Synthetic]

Brees has been wrong in many a statement to me and has played poorly, hes never IT's like this & cant blame that on a bad D & if is & trying to force throws to win or take lead early or take back lead late then hes feeling pressure to produce and he isn't handling it correctly, IF THATS THE CASE

also Nicks is on IR but if was a Saint maybe wouldnt of got hurt

Our team all around is bad. Brees had to have that money, we couldn't bring Nicks back. I seen it earlier this year, something was off with our O-line. I think they under valued Nicks big time. Brees deserves some blame, and that's exactly what I am saying. We have had run games going great in certain games and he'll throw it 40-50 times, but at the same time we don't have anything great on defense either.

[bayone]

Our team all around is bad. Brees had to have that money, we couldn't bring Nicks back. I seen it earlier this year, something was off with our O-line. I think they under valued Nicks big time. Brees deserves some blame, and that's exactly what I am saying. We have had run games going great in certain games and he'll throw it 40-50 times, but at the same time we don't have anything great on defense either.

I often express myself poorly , other times succinctly & re read and edit alot, u answered me before u saw I added

Hey think of it this way, u will get a descent draft pick at least so future with those coming back appears brighter my friend

also as first said or meant to say Nicks is great, & should of been & would of been kept if had $ for it, so agree , i added he is on IR BUT maybe wouldnt of got hurt if was playing for a saint

Look at peyton all but 2 -3 sacks came while Ramirez was in for Kuper, thats a major difference

I am sure Nicks would of helped provide more time in the pocket

[The Fish]

The Saints are guilty and the NFL is a three ring circus. Got it.

[jvan1973]

The Saints are guilty and the NFL is a three ring circus. Got it.

In your opinion.. clearly there was no proof. They didn't go after Peyton in the super bowl. Wouldn't you think that would have been the case.

[Synthetic]

I often express myself poorly , other times succinctly & re read and edit alot, u answered me before u saw I added

Hey think of it this way, u will get a descent draft pick at least so future with those coming back appears brighter my friend

also as first said or meant to say Nicks is great, & should of been & would of been kept if had $ for it, so agree , i added he is on IR BUT maybe wouldnt of got hurt if was playing for a saint

Look at peyton all but 2 -3 sacks came while Ramirez was in for Kuper, thats a major difference

I am sure Nicks would of helped provide more time in the pocket

I'm not really worried about this season. I know lots of people that still want to make the playoffs, I threw the towel in after the Denver loss. Yeah we'll get a decent draft, I'm not really that hurt over this season. I just want to see Atlanta get beat down in the playoffs and that will make this season for me.

I don't know if Nicks would have got hurt or not on our team, but I feel the Saints handled him very poorly, we didn't even want him back going by his comments made earlier this season. I love Brees but him holding out and then not even doing training camp really hurt. I remember people used to criticize Favre for not doing training camp, but that was a different story, he didn't hold out like Brees did.

[Gavin]

Well theres a shocker . Goodell should step down after this most recent debacle

[The Fish]

In your opinion.. clearly there was no proof. They didn't go after Peyton in the super bowl. Wouldn't you think that would have been the case.

Yup, Greg Williams not contesting Godells decision means that he was innocent. Got it.

http://profootballta...n-manning-too/\\

[bayone]

I'm not really worried about this season. I know lots of people that still want to make the playoffs, I threw the towel in after the Denver loss. Yeah we'll get a decent draft, I'm not really that hurt over this season. I just want to see Atlanta get beat down in the playoffs and that will make this season for me.

I don't know if Nicks would have got hurt or not on our team, but I feel the Saints handled him very poorly, we didn't even want him back going by his comments made earlier this season. I love Brees but him holding out and then not even doing training camp really hurt. I remember people used to criticize Favre for not doing training camp, but that was a different story, he didn't hold out like Brees did.

agree completely

no one knows the ifs , so never know if nicks woukld of got hurt, yes things could of been done better on his & brees part

rt and Saints but they were undergoing turmoil too but no excuses for some things however

also dont want falcons to win and quite happy when Cam blew them away, they should have lost more , cant tell if luck or good at times

also thought Saints Season lost while back, maybe not as far as broncos but awhile back

hopefully u will find a gem with the draft pick u get and feel better about your next season

[bayone]

In your opinion.. clearly there was no proof. They didn't go after Peyton in the super bowl. Wouldn't you think that would have been the case.

Yup, Greg Williams not contesting Godells decision means that he was innocent. Got it.

http://profootballta...n-manning-too/\\

I always thought the reason Peyton stayed OK, no matter what pregame stuff may or may not have been said was because williams decided for the actual game design his release to fast and better to blanket receivers ,

I could be wrong though

[jvan1973]

Yup, Greg Williams not contesting Godells decision means that he was innocent. Got it.

http://profootballta...n-manning-too/\\

I didn't see anything about bounties in that.

[Balzer40]

No respect for the Saints, guilty or not, they all are a bunch of whiny crybabies and my feelings for this go back before bountygate.

[The Fish]

I didn't see anything about bounties in that.

The comment and link weren't the same point.

The link was released today stating that they would go after "the next" qb which was Peyton. I posted that in response to your saying " They didn't go after Peyton in the super bowl. Wouldn't you think that would have been the case."

The fact that the nature of the bounty program needs spelled out every time it's brought up is why the notion that the Saints weren't doing anything is being propagated.

I'm sure the NFL is wrong as well, but there was indeed a bounty program. It's not my opinion.

[Gavin]

At the end of the day Goodell screwed it up by not releasing any real concrete evidence but insisting that he had some

[ColtsBlueFL]

Wait what about Sean Payton and Gregory

are they still suspended?

Yes-

"Making matters far more serious - - as well as challenging for

Commissioner Goodell and League investigators - - Saints’ coaches and managers led a

deliberate, unprecedented and effective effort to obstruct the NFL’s investigation into the

Program and the alleged bounty."

"Commissioner Goodell’s findings and the resulting suspensions of

these Saints’ personnel are final and no longer subject to appeal."

No change for anyone but players. But the players originally suspended, while no longer having to serve any suspension time, were found to have taken part in the bounty schemes (except Scott Fujita).

"I affirm Commissioner Goodell’s factual findings as to the four players. I conclude that

Hargrove, Smith and Vilma - - but not Fujita - - engaged in “conduct detrimental to the integrity

of, and public confidence in, the game of professional football.” However, for the reasons set

forth in this decision, I now vacate all discipline to be imposed upon these players.

Although I vacate all suspensions, I fully considered but ultimately rejected reducing the

suspensions to fines of varying degrees for Hargrove, Smith and Vilma.

My affirmation of Commissioner Goodell’s findings could certainly justify the issuance of fines. However, as

explained in my discussion below, this entire case has been contaminated by the coaches and

others in the Saints’ organization."

Full text of the decision here-

http://usatoday30.us...unty-appeal.pdf

[ColtsBlueFL]

At the end of the day Goodell screwed it up by not releasing any real concrete evidence but insisting that he had some

Tagliabue says they have enough to fine 3 of the players, but Saints upper folks committed serious deliberate obstruction of evidence and justice. That's very serious, but they (coaches/gm/owner whomever) most certainly were caught and they just trying to get their players off the hook.

Read the link above for the full decision

[Gavin]

Tagliabue says they have enough to fine 3 of the players, but Saints upper folks committed serious deliberate obstruction of evidence and justice. That's very serious, but they (coaches/gm/owner whomever) most certainly were caught and they just trying to get their players off the hook.

Read the link above for the full decision

From the quote I read (if I am reading it right) Tagliabue fully considered but rejected the suspensions and fines for Hargrove, Smith and Vilma.

Meaning he decided against it if I am reading it right

[ColtsBlueFL]

From the quote I read (if I am reading it right) Tagliabue fully considered but rejected the suspensions and fines for Hargrove, Smith and Vilma.

Meaning he decided against it if I am reading it right

Correct. Suspensions were off the table straight away, because of all the screwing with evidence and investigation monkey biz by Saints management. He then considered fines for players, because he felt there still enough 'there' there to do so but ultimately decided against it, because of the convolution created by the monkey biz of Saints management. The Saints succeeded in muddying the water enough the get the players off the hook, but not themselves. In other words, he acquitted the players, but he did not find them not guilty.

Quote-

"That severe misconduct {by Saints managment/coaches}

played a substantial role in my deciding whether to sustain, in whole or in part, or vacate the

discipline to be imposed upon these four players. Equally, in vacating the players’ suspensions I

do not in any degree condone their behavior. I do not approve any of the misconduct in which

Commissioner Goodell found the players to have engaged, though I do not find Fujita’s conduct

equivalent to the other players. But each player made choices that do not reflect favorably on

him. Moreover, there is evidence in the record that suggests that Commissioner Goodell could

have disciplined a greater number of Saints’ players for the events that occurred here."

[jvan1973]

Correct. Suspensions were off the table straight away, because of all the screwing with evidence and investigations monkey biz by Saints management. He then considered fines for players, because he felt there still enough 'there' there to do so but ultimately decided against it, because of the convolution created by the monkey biz of Saints management. The Saints succeeded in muddying the water enough the get the players off the hook, but not themselves. In other words, he acquitted the players, but he did not find them not guilty.

Quote-

"That severe misconduct {by Saints managment/coaches}

played a substantial role in my deciding whether to sustain, in whole or in part, or vacate the

discipline to be imposed upon these four players. Equally, in vacating the players’ suspensions I

do not in any degree condone their behavior. I do not approve any of the misconduct in which

Commissioner Goodell found the players to have engaged, though I do not find Fujita’s conduct

equivalent to the other players. But each player made choices that do not reflect favorably on

him. Moreover, there is evidence in the record that suggests that Commissioner Goodell could

have disciplined a greater number of Saints’ players for the events that occurred here."

Its pretty convenient he blames people who are not allowed to speak out on their own behalf. If the evidence is there, then suspend them and fine them. Bottom line, the evidence wasn't there or they are unwilling to produce it publicly for what ever reason. Sean Peyton and Mickey loomis can't say anything for fear that their punishments will become more strict. Goodell messed his pants from jump street on this one

[ColtsBlueFL]

Its pretty convenient he blames people who are not allowed to speak out on their own behalf. If the evidence is there, then suspend them and fine them. Bottom line, the evidence wasn't there or they are unwilling to produce it publicly for what ever reason. Sean Peyton and Mickey loomis can't say anything for fear that their punishments will become more strict. Goodell messed his pants from jump street on this one

They (Payton, Loomis, Williams, Vitt, etc...) could have appealed, but they did not. Why? They knew they were caught. The developed it, or knew about it, and did nothing to curb it. Also-

"... a deliberate effort by the Saints’ non-player personnel to conceal

the Program’s existence from League investigators." "... the involvement of the coaching staff and three years of denials and willful disrespect of the rules

to be unacceptable."

Uh oh.

OK, here's a problem concerning the players-

"With regard to the Saints’ players, the NFL concluded that: (1) between twenty-two and

twenty-seven defensive players on the New Orleans Saints had supported and participated in a

bounty program funded primarily by players during the 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons; (2) Saints’

players received payments as a reward for inflicting injuries on opposing players; and (3) the

players who contributed funds and targeted players on opposing teams were guilty of conduct

detrimental because their actions undermine both the integrity of competition on the field and

public confidence in the NFL."

You can't just single out a few and 'make an example' out them. And punishments need to be fair and consistent across the board. And this-

" ...the League has emphasized club responsibility for

ensuring player compliance with League policies, and has disciplined clubs - - but not players - -

for non-compliance. For example, in separate instances involving the Green Bay Packers and

New England Patriots in 2007 and 2008, the League fined the clubs $25,000 or less, without

disciplining any player. Notably, the 2007 discipline letter to the Patriots stated that:

You have confirmed that a number of Patriots’ players

were in violation of this rule [prohibiting bonuses paid by players

to their teammates as a reward for game performance]. Fine

money assessed and collected by the players was distributed as

rewards to players for achieving an onfield incentive during a

game."

No precedent for previously disciplining players for that infraction, let alone a select few. But suspending 22 D players would have sunk the franchise, I'm sure. Too much evidence deleted or destroyed, just a big mess. But Goodell wanted 'heads to roll', for sure. Taglibue probably does the best thing. Finds in favor of Commisioner, suspensions of Managemet commenced. Future bounties for injuries likely to be minimal. Remove player suspensions, but let them know thye were in the wrong, don't do it anymore, and likely the leagues will address how to better implement punishments for teams, management, and even players in the future.

[hawkeyes]

Drew Brees has taken to twitter about this. From his comments it seems he is blaming their entire season on this issue. Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

Booohoooo Brees running his trap again trying pursuade public opinion shut up already Drew! Your team had a bounty system that rewarded players for intentionally trying to hurt other players - you and any of your teammates that knew about the program and or participated at any level are guilty!

Tagliabue as assigned independant reviewer of the case did what he was asked to do ... but his decision was based on non-sense! "It was the coaches faults" - the players were only doing what they were told to do - NON-SENSE !!!! They are all grown men capable of doing the right thing - they chose to do the wrong thing! Your boss tells you to go rob a bank on your lunch break and you actually go do it - its not all your bosses fault!

[oldunclemark]

Just broke through on NFL network.

Hopefully this can be put to rest now.

Drew Brees is a liar..

THe NFL has confirmed that Saints coaches ran bountys to injure players like Kurt Warner...

Tagliabue split the difference.

He said the Saints were criminals.,.but he suspended the sentence...after the Saints were eliminated from playoff contention

I'm okay with that

[hawkeyes]

And youve got the media taking the side of the players giving . like Brees the microphone to try and sway public opinion. M&M this morning kept talking about approval ratings for the commish - and all the hilbillies calling in to say how poorly he was doing! Next they will be calling for RG to resign - get ready it is next!

FACT is the Saints WERE and ARE GUILTY of what Goodell found them guilty of! The more Brees runs his mouth the more I dislike the guy - really wonder how he made it through college with a brain like that!