Could there be a tie for ROY between Luck and RG3

[FireJimCaldwell]

RG goes out of the game and a rookie backup scores easily and even runs in a 2 point conversion. That coupled with RG missing a game when there are only a few left, should tremendously hurt his chances for ROY.

Fair point, but Matt Flynn coming in and throwing 6 td passes in week 17 last year certainly didn't stray many if any voters from Aaron Rodgers and his MVP vote which should have been much closer than it was.

[aceinthehouse]

I think RG3 can win League MVP.

(specially with those #'s)

If he plays hurt VS Browns and pulls out a victory...."Johnny Unitas" style

Continues to play hurt while...

Getting the Redskins to the Playoffs by winning NFC East Division or getting team a WC....

Takes Redskins deep in Playoffs or miraculously, the SB....

Luck or Wilson just might get ROTY...

Because RG3 will be getting NFL League MVP OVER Manning, Peterson or Brady, imo.

NFL loves a couragous story.

my 2 cents...

[rdskns4eva]

lol I totally disagree with you there The system has EVERYTHING to do with QBs numbers. I remember back in 1995 Jim Harbaugh lead the league in QB rating. I don't think anyone would have rated him as a top 10 QB that year. But he played on a team that had a very good running game, he threw short passes, and they played good run defense. Sound familiar? You cannot base how good a QB is by his numbers. John Elway NEVER had a good passing rating. Ken Anderson ALWAYS did. Who do you think was better?

But here is how it will be resolved. If the Redskins start Kirk Cousins this weekend, I would expect similar numbers to what RG3 did. Not as many running yards but more passing yards. And that will prove that it is not that RG3 is such a great QB. Either that or Cousins should be co-ROY. Do you think if Andrew Luck went out, Drew Stanton could accomplish the same?

Luck is asked to do WAY more than any other rookie QB. He often throws twice as many passes as RG3.

But these RG3 things get old. Cant you just go post that stuff on the Redskins board?

I'm almost certain that you put any quaterback worth his salt in the Colts offense and he will put up ths same numbers or better. The Colts run a vertical passing game. The Raiders have been doing that for 60 years.

People FEAR Griffin and this offense.. I'm sure the Browns are hoping that they dont have to face Griffin on Sunday.

[IndyBarb]

People FEAR Griffin and this offense.. I'm sure the Browns are hoping that they dont have to face Griffin on Sunday.

FEAR?

[FunBunch]

I think the Skins line would look much worse than it does if Grossman was the quarterback. Just like I believe the Colts current OL would look exponentially better if they were running a WCO. Yeah they run the ball better.. I think Ballard or Brown would look better than they do here with that zone blocking scheme. Just like I think Luck would have better "numbers", if he were in hybrid WCO that Washington is running even if you eliminated the designed runs.

I think scheme has a lot to do with it. Neither line to me is head and shoulders above the other from a man for man perspective. I do however think that one coaching staff is putting their players in better spots to succeed. So I can't discount the scheme comparison. I would say that this group of lineman would produce a much better running game if they had the zone blocking scheme installed with Ballard & Brown, or if you brought Morris into this scheme his #'s wouldn't be a high as they are. Again, scheme related.

I just got back from a meeting and I was going to respond to the previous poster but your post captured everything I wanted to say.

In other words both teams have comparable talent on the O-Line, it's just that the Skins have a better scheme situated for the running game and the explosiveness of RG3 makes all sorts of plays possible.

[FunBunch]

BTW, I believe there is a bounty out for RG3 by some opposing defenses. I can't prove it but just based on what some of them have said over the past several weeks.

[Balzer40]

FEAR?

Agreed, No team in this league fears another and they sure don't fear a rookie QB with inflated numbers. If anything, every team see's it as a challenge and looks forward to it.

[rdskns4eva]

FEAR?

Thats what I said. We are in week 14 and teams still havent figured out this offense. We played like crap on offense agaisnt the Ravens and what did we do? Put up 420 yards of total offense, almost 180 rushing yards and scored 31 points. I remember when Jim Zorn was in Washington and his first 6 games his offense was killing people. By the second half of the season, teams had figured it out.

Not only have teams NOT figured out our offense, we are getting more dominant on offense as the season progresses. Right now at this moment, Defensive coordinators do not have an answer to slowing this offense down. The Redskins slow themselves down when they do stupid things like penalties all game long.

The funny thing is, we are having all of this offensive production while being one of the worst 3rd down teams in the NFL and not having a proficient pure drop back passing game (like the Colts). Once we can get a line that can protect Griff and not be pushed into his face on obvious passing downs, this offense had the potential top be unstoppable.

If you were to ask any defensive coordinator right now, which offense they dont want to have to face after the Patriots, I think it would be the Skins. They just have WAY too much versatility on offense and that starts with the trigger man, RG3.

heck, even The Giants said it would be easier to defend the Saints on offense, and they have one of the best offenses in Football. Like I said, teams fear RG3 and this offense.

[PrincetonTiger]

wow

[Malakai432]

Thats what I said. We are in week 14 and teams still havent figured out this offense. We played like crap on offense agaisnt the Ravens and what did we do? Put up 420 yards of total offense, almost 180 rushing yards and scored 31 points. I remember when Jim Zorn was in Washington and his first 6 games his offense was killing people. By the second half of the season, teams had figured it out.

Not only have teams NOT figured out our offense, we are getting more dominant on offense as the season progresses. Right now at this moment, Defensive coordinators do not have an answer to slowing this offense down. The Redskins slow themselves down when they do stupid things like penalties all game long.

The funny thing is, we are having all of this offensive production while being one of the worst 3rd down teams in the NFL and not having a proficient pure drop back passing game (like the Colts). Once we can get a line that can protect Griff and not be pushed into his face on obvious passing downs, this offense had the potential top be unstoppable.

If you were to ask any defensive coordinator right now, which offense they dont want to have to face after the Patriots, I think it would be the Skins. They just have WAY too much versatility on offense and that starts with the trigger man, RG3.

heck, even The Giants said it would be easier to defend the Saints on offense, and they have one of the best offenses in Football. Like I said, teams fear RG3 and this offense.

You could say the same thing about the Colts offense also. Arguably one of the worse OLs I've ever seen, not a great running game once the OL gets fixed they are going to be pretty scary.

I do like the way Ballard has been playing though.

[House]

Man reading some comments on here you would think the Redskins are having the same season as the '07 Patriots.

Hyperbole thy runith rampant.

[rdskns4eva]

Man reading some comments on here you would think the Redskins are having the same season as the '07 Patriots.

Hyperbole thy runith rampant.

No where have I said, nor have I read comments from other Redskins fans that the Redskins were the most dominant team in football.

[House]

No where have I said, nor have I read comments from other Redskins fans that the Redskins were the most dominant team in football.

No where did I say, I read direct comments from Redskin fans saying they were the most dominant team in football.

Hence why I said "You would think."

[braveheartcolt]

Colts fan here. Just logging on to see what you guys are saying about your play-off chances, and to see if Griffin will be playing on Sunday.....

Good luck with the play-off charge. This is my first time on a non-Colts forum, so please be gentle.

BHC.

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

RG3 doesn't even have the highest QBR on your team.

lol really good point... But espn is obsesed with rg3 they push the agenda so they will never point that out

[bavanlan]

Colts fan here. Just logging on to see what you guys are saying about your play-off chances, and to see if Griffin will be playing on Sunday.....

Good luck with the play-off charge. This is my first time on a non-Colts forum, so please be gentle.

BHC.

After a couple minutes...

Bravo.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Luck didn't win the Heisman, he won't win RotY. He has a steeper growth curve based upon carrying a much higher load on offense, but one that will round out all of his skill sets as he learns, matures, and becomes savvy to D concepts and of O schemes to create mismatches. He may set all time rookie win record, and be first of this class to clinch a playoff spot. He has young weapons growing up with him. I love folks who trot out only completion percentage, and interceptions to make their case, but not any other QB stat.

I hope A. Luck is the first to hoist the Lombardi Trophy. That'll make up for it.

[HtownColt]

I find it funny when people talk Luck/RG3. It's wins vs. stats. When it was Manning/Brady, people talked up Brady wins vs. Peyton's numbers.

So does this make us just like Patriots fans

[T3KN3O]

If the ROY was completely stat based, then RG3 would win it hands down, but it's when you take many factors into consideration that I believe makes Luck look more deserving. Mostly just by comparing the three teams involved with the stellar rookie qb's, the seahawks, redskins, and colts.

The seahawks absolutely destroyed arizona this past weekend, I know they're bad, but honestly that was just embarassing. Their defense is one of the best in the league and the seahawks don't need Russel to throw the ball around as much as the colts need Luck to do that because they just aren't allowing as many points as the colts do.

Then you have RG3 in washington, who is having a great year, but look at all his contributing factors. An almost equally impressive rookie campaign for Alfred Morris which then helps RG3 run the option by having such a good ground game. If Luck actually had the line/ running game to do that, I'm sure his td to turnover ratio would be lowered quite a bit. Also, look at Kirk coming in and relieving RG3 when he goes down with injuries. He's actually fairly productive on the team too. Not as good as RG3, but was still able to help his team go to overtime and win against the Ravens this past week. If Luck was gone from this team, I'd doubt they'd win a game! Ok, well maybe against the chiefs.

/endrant

[Matugi]

To be fair, Griffin led his team down the field on one leg with a 22 yard bullet to Garçon. Ed Reed completely bit on Cousin's pump fake, and Garçon was wide open. That's not to discredit what Cousins did, but the Ravens played awful defense all around on that final drive.

[Balzer40]

To be fair, Griffin led his team down the field on one leg with a 22 yard bullet to Garçon. Ed Reed completely bit on Cousin's pump fake, and Garçon was wide open. That's not to discredit what Cousins did, but the Ravens played awful defense all around on that final drive.

This of course after Griffin hiked to the stadium in 12 feet of snow with no shoes or shirt, then after he arrived at the stadium he was locked out so he jumped in a single bound 500 feet straight into the air and over the stadium wall gliding to the ground and landing gracefully as a feather.

[RGIII]

Also, look at Kirk coming in and relieving RG3 when he goes down with injuries. He's actually fairly productive on the team too. Not as good as RG3, but was still able to help his team go to overtime and win against the Ravens this past week. If Luck was gone from this team, I'd doubt they'd win a game! Ok, well maybe against the chiefs.

Kirk threw a 77 yard TD pass against blown coverage when he came in against the Falcons, too. Problem is that he went on to make several bad reads and worse throws that were picked off that sealed the game. We'd have a real tough time sledding with him for a full game. Perhaps even tougher than if you guys had to fall back to Stanton, who at least has experience.

This of course after Griffin hiked to the stadium in 12 feet of snow with no shoes or shirt, then after he arrived at the stadium he was locked out so he jumped in a single bound 500 feet straight into the air and over the stadium wall gliding to the ground and landing gracefully as a feather.

Actually, it was 15 feet of snow and not the soft, powdery snow you guys get in Indianapolis. This was slushy, icy, deathtrap snow. Andrew Luck wouldn't have made it even half of the 200-mile journey that Griffin partook.

[Matugi]

Please.

You forgot the part where Griffin saves the Vulcans on his way back down to Earth after destroying the coming asteroid.

[NewEra]

sorry, rg3 might be decent...but he is pure media driven ever since coming our of baylor. he had one good year, one. completely different offenses and systems. im glad skins fans are happy about their guy. most colts fans are happy about ours. as to a tie, id be straight up ticked about a tie. obviously rg3 win cause its all about the stats and flash instead of the w-l's...have the stats. give me the wins!!

[ColtsBlueFL]

I find it funny when people talk Luck/RG3. It's wins vs. stats. When it was Manning/Brady, people talked up Brady wins vs. Peyton's numbers.

So does this make us just like Patriots fans

Actually, it was playoff wins vs regular season stats. They both had about identical regular season wins (Peyton slightly more).

But point is made, and noted.

[RGIII]

sorry, rg3 might be decent...but he is pure media driven ever since coming our of baylor. he had one good year, one. completely different offenses and systems. im glad skins fans are happy about their guy. most colts fans are happy about ours. as to a tie, id be straight up ticked about a tie. obviously rg3 win cause its all about the stats and flash instead of the w-l's...have the stats. give me the wins!!

You ever take a gander at his stats at Baylor? He had a strong junior season as well (one that compares favorably to Luck's junior year) and, despite missing most of his sophomore year, showed strong improvement every year he played. He was just under the radar until he forced people to take notice by starting his senior year with more TDs than incompletions.

[The Fish]

"If I could snap my fingers and make this useless bickering, comparison stop, oh you know I would."

I'm going to start working on a country tune, about this.

A/G/A/B#

*counts* 1..2..3.4

Sing along everyone!

[Holden89]

I'm really not sure how this is even an argument. I love Luck, and I still prefer him as our QB, but he's not even in the running for OROY anymore, IMO. RG3 is the clear front runner followed by Doug Martin.

I know some people will say that Luck has "carried" us to a 9 win season, and that's just not true. Yes, he's performed well and has had some great game winning drives, but a big reason why we need to come back all the time is because Luck throws picks. Now, I'm not using that in a way to bash Luck. He's a rookie QB in a fairly complicated deep passing attack. Picks are going to happen this year, and probably into next year. Luck will learn, and I think eventually will be a top QB in this league.

However, year 1 truly goes to RG3 at this point. He's been spectacular, and whether or not it's because he's in a simple offense, has a better team, whatever, he is STILL having the better rookie year. I think the only way Luck can wrest the OROY away from RG3 is to pretty much be flawless in the last 3 games, and beat the Texans once in a game where they actually try.

[NewEra]

Yeah luck isn't why we're 9-4 cause he throws picks...2-14 ring a bell? Rg3 isn't asked to do even a fraction of what luck does. It really is pointless discussing it cause obviously some people don't have the foggiest clue as to what they are talking about or comparing.

[Malakai432]

I'm really not sure how this is even an argument. I love Luck, and I still prefer him as our QB, but he's not even in the running for OROY anymore, IMO. RG3 is the clear front runner followed by Doug Martin.

I know some people will say that Luck has "carried" us to a 9 win season, and that's just not true. Yes, he's performed well and has had some great game winning drives, but a big reason why we need to come back all the time is because Luck throws picks. Now, I'm not using that in a way to bash Luck. He's a rookie QB in a fairly complicated deep passing attack. Picks are going to happen this year, and probably into next year. Luck will learn, and I think eventually will be a top QB in this league.

However, year 1 truly goes to RG3 at this point. He's been spectacular, and whether or not it's because he's in a simple offense, has a better team, whatever, he is STILL having the better rookie year. I think the only way Luck can wrest the OROY away from RG3 is to pretty much be flawless in the last 3 games, and beat the Texans once in a game where they actually try.

I think Luck is right behind RGiii. I don't think the national media (since it's pretty much a popularity contest) would have Doug Martin ahead of him. Why just not put Alfred Morris above Luck as well.

It's going to simply boil down to Luck and RGiii, yes RGiii is the front runner. You want to talk about offense Luck will hold the rookie records for passing yardage and single game passing yards. Leading the Colts to one of the highest powered offensive teams in the league, sounds like offense to me.

[Holden89]

Yeah luck isn't why we're 9-4 cause he throws picks...2-14 ring a bell? Rg3 isn't asked to do even a fraction of what luck does. It really is pointless discussing it cause obviously some people don't have the foggiest clue as to what they are talking about or comparing.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me, but if it was...

Yeah, I know Lucks a part of the reason for our turn around. Like I said, he's done well, he just isn't the ONLY reason. Our defense has gotten a lot of key stops to give the offense their change to score on those game winning drives. That's all I'm saying.

I don't care if RG3 isn't getting asked to do what Luck does. RG3 does his job just as Luck does his. This is like complaining about teams having a weak schedule...You can only do what's asked of you.

As I've said, I prefer Luck and think he is going to be a fantastic QB for us in many years to come, just... RG3 has had the more impressive rookie year as far as stats go, and that's who the award is going to go to.

Edit: I'll also add this. If I had a vote, it would Go to Luck. For the reasons that he IS asked to do more than RG3 is. However, I don't think the people who HAVE votes are going to care about that.

[jahsoul]

Will this ever end?!

This whole discredit to lift up thing is getting old.

Luck doesn't have the best stats because of the scheme he plays in. Arians scheme requires a brutish offensive line, which the Colts do not have. If he would incorporate some of the WCO into the gameplan, it would help with Luck's efficiency and turnovers.

RG3 plays in a misunderstood offense. People see the option and totally dismiss the fact that the base of this offense is the same offense that won Shanny 2 Superbowls in Denver.

Both are playing well within the system that they are in. I find it funny that while people were praising Andrew Luck and crowning him the greatest prospect since Elway, many ignored the fact that these same analyst said that Griffin had the greater upside. We don't know what the future hold for these guys but why is it so hard to agree that they both are having a great year, and this is just a great year for rookies period.

[Truckin Sanders]

I find it funny when people talk Luck/RG3. It's wins vs. stats. When it was Manning/Brady, people talked up Brady wins vs. Peyton's numbers.

So does this make us just like Patriots fans

The manning/brady comparison is god awful and needs to stop. You people fail to realize this is the regular season. The pats fans had post season success aka playoff wins and super bowls. How many does Luck have? Zero. Stop with the crappy comparison.

[Emma]

RG goes out of the game and a rookie backup scores easily and even runs in a 2 point conversion. That coupled with RG missing a game when there are only a few left, should tremendously hurt his chances for ROY.

This was my thought exactly. If a player with less experience could win like that, then obviously RGIII is being carried. It's the opposite for the Colts.

[ColtsFTW]

Redskins fans here.

I don't mean to destroy your hopes, but RG3 will win rookie of the year, hands down. It's not even close. I know it, the experts know it, and deep down inside you guys know it.

He is sitting at a QBR rating of 104.2. That not only leads all rookies, but it leads THE ENTIRE NFL. Yes, ahead of Tom Brady, ahead of Peyton Manning, ahead of Aaron Rodgers. Maybe if it was after 3 weeks, some would say that's a fluke, but its Week 14 of the NFL, with 3 games left. That means he has been playing GREAT football, week-in week-out on a CONSISTENT basis.

It seems to me the only argument you have is "but Luck has Colts in the playoffs". Andy Dalton got into the playoffs last year. So what? Getting into the playoffs doesn't mean squat. You have to win it all to get respect. Ask Andy Reid. Maybe if you guys won the division title and had a first round bye, that would be a MUCH more impressive resume for Luck's rookie year. But as a wild-card, with a cupcake schedule? Please.

Your other argument is, "but he has X amount of game-winning drives". Those are situations he PUT HIMSELF in with all those INTs. Again, with those cupcake teams you've played, you've handed them the game and they STILL let you guys comeback. If Luck throws 3-4 INTs against NFC East teams, I guarantee he will be BURIED with no hope of a comeback. Again, I re-iterate, he has had a CUPCAKE SCHEDULE and STILL throws 18 interceptions? That's not RoY material.

I understand RoY doesn't make one's career, but Year 1 goes to RG3, not Andrew Luck. Sorry.

Oh yea, throw in RG3's 720 rushing yards and 6 TDs for good measure.

Actually aside from the 3 pick 6s (one of which the world knows should have been overturned) there has only been 13 points scored off of his INTs. Also I dont want Luck to have 720 rushing yards that gets you knocked out of games.

[RGIII]

This was my thought exactly. If a player with less experience could win like that, then obviously RGIII is being carried. It's the opposite for the Colts.

Except that's a fallacious conclusion. You need only look at the first time Kirk Cousins saw action to see why your thought is a bit far-fetched.

Actually aside from the 3 pick 6s (one of which the world knows should have been overturned) there has only been 13 points scored off of his INTs. Also I dont want Luck to have 720 rushing yards that gets you knocked out of games.

That reflects better on your defense than on Luck.

[ColtsFTW]

Except that's a fallacious conclusion. You need only look at the first time Kirk Cousins saw action to see why your thought is a bit far-fetched.

That reflects better on your defense than on Luck.

Yes they have came up big when needed but I was just stating that he hasn't exactly dug himself into these huge holes with INTs like I keep reading. While he could have scored instead of getting an INT, other teams arent exactly cashing in on them.

[Kenny]

Except that's a fallacious conclusion. You need only look at the first time Kirk Cousins saw action to see why your thought is a bit far-fetched.

That reflects better on your defense than on Luck.

Agreed about Cousins not being quality. You are the only Skins fan here I wouldn't love to have a covo with in a dark alley whilst I brandished a beer bottle .

With that said, RG has the award locked up unless he lays a goose egg for the rest of the season. Does he play in a QB friendly O? Of course. From what I have read PA attempts are the same as any other team. His options out of pistol/I(Do ya'll use I?) are a simple read off of the DE's actions on whether or not he bites to hand it off or keep it himself(Simple one look then act). and his intermediate throws are almost always high completion rate passes. Any person who doesn't credit the running game of the Skins(With a lot of credit going to RGs mobility and D coordinators not being able to stop the pistol) helping their vertical game are fools. If you have a famously mobile QB who can chunk your D as well as a stout rookie RB who can do the same to prepare for you don't spend 100% or even 80% of the time working on the pass(As I'm sure that is what is prepared for when game-planning Luck).

This crazy long post is not to discredit RG because he is a baller. Simply if Luck was in a more QB friendly scheme(WC/ modified WC) he would look a ton better. RG IS in a more QB friendly scheme and that is why he looks to be playing better. Enough of this 2 in the am long winded post though. Good night.

[hawkeyes]

Luck has six comebacks in 4th quarter or overtime despite being the most hit qb in nfl

Yes and he did it all on his own, the same way QBs win SBs on their own and are judged as such. BAH!

[USAFHoosier]

Man I didnt mean this to become a war of words lol.