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#1 unitaswestand

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:36 PM

I know I will probably be hammered with that "we are 9-4", but I really wonder about Arians offense as a long term solution. I know he prefers longer chunks. The probably I see is that so many teams use some version of the Cover-2 defense to prevent passes downfield to give up short passes instead, Luck is often throwing right into where the defensive strength is. I am often surprise at how little short passes there are, other than an occasion WR screen. Also, with a horrid offensive line and Luck having to hold the ball longer, it makes for a gamble on every play. I just wonder if the Colts would be better playing more of the annoying dink and dunk offense like the Patriots, but airing it out from time to time. More like the Colts were when James was at his peak.

It just seems to me a feast or famine offense. Against a smart team like the Patriots, I think it will always be tough for this offense to play them because of the Patriot coverages.

What do you all think? And if Arians left and we had to bring in a new coordinator, would you want to keep the same offense?

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#2 PrincetonTiger

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:40 PM

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#3 FireJimCaldwell

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:43 PM

I know I will probably be hammered with that "we are 9-4", but I really wonder about Arians offense as a long term solution. I know he prefers longer chunks. The probably I see is that so many teams use some version of the Cover-2 defense to prevent passes downfield to give up short passes instead, Luck is often throwing right into where the defensive strength is. I am often surprise at how little short passes there are, other than an occasion WR screen. Also, with a horrid offensive line and Luck having to hold the ball longer, it makes for a gamble on every play. I just wonder if the Colts would be better playing more of the annoying dink and dunk offense like the Patriots, but airing it out from time to time. More like the Colts were when James was at his peak.

It just seems to me a feast or famine offense. Against a smart team like the Patriots, I think it will always be tough for this offense to play them because of the Patriot coverages.

What do you all think? And if Arians left and we had to bring in a new coordinator, would you want to keep the same offense?


Quite a few share your viewpoint.

#4 TKnight24

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:43 PM

If we keep the same Offense..... what would be the point of letting Arians go?? I think when he retires.... we get a WCO Coach so Luck can play in a system like how he did at Stanford. Where he'll excel....... when he gets a oline
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#5 unitaswestand

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:45 PM

I don't know. This isn't the late 60s with Daryl Lamonica being the Mad Bomber. I love balanced teams that methodically move the ball down field. Sure, I love those long plays. But just as the Colts use to do with the the fake handoff on a stretch play, they need to set it up. Now down field on almost every play

#6 unitaswestand

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:46 PM

If we keep the same Offense..... what would be the point of letting Arians go?? I think when he retires.... we get a WCO Coach so Luck can play in a system like how he did at Stanford. Where he'll excel....... when he gets a oline


I meant if by some miracle Arians get a head coaching job. I doubt it because of his age. But you never know.

#7 Gavin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:46 PM

I like the dink and dunk and playaction passes. Thats obviously not Arians style. , Heck Brady has 3 Rings with it and 2 more SB appearances. When we eventually bring in a new Coordinator then at the top of my list I want Rick Dennison if he is available

#8 GAColt

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:02 PM

In addition to the items you mentioned, his offense seems to get the QB hit an awful lot. Big Ben had been getting beat up pretty bad the past few years, and Andrew has taken quite a few shots. Neither has had great OL, but if you know that, adjust and get the ball out quicker with some shorter routes.

#9 FireJimCaldwell

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:04 PM

I love a deep shot in a play. You never know when it can result in a cheap touchdown due to a broken coverage. I do not like 3+ 20 yard routes without an outlet/hot route. It's asking for your QB to be hit.

The OL that we currently have would look exponentially better if they were blocking in a WCO.

#10 unitaswestand

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:07 PM

I love a deep shot in a play. You never know when it can result in a cheap touchdown due to a broken coverage. I do not like 3+ 20 yard routes without an outlet/hot route. It's asking for your QB to be hit.

The OL that we currently have would look exponentially better if they were blocking in a WCO.


Completely agree. One of the reasons Manning was so seldomly sacked is that the route trees were much shorter so he held the ball a much shorter time.

My favorite era of the Manning Colts was around 2003-2005. You never knew what to expect. You might get a run, short pass, or bomb. They set each other up. I would love to see that returned but even a stronger running game.

#11 HtownColt

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:27 AM

I like Arians offense in this day and age. you have to take your shots with the rules the way they are. Vick Ballard is coming alive in the run game, just because he comes with his heavy package a couple times a game and gets stuffed isn't that harmful, every run play isn't going to be a positive one during a course of a game and simply for the most part the run game has came alive since like te Browns game. So his run plays are effective for the most part.
His passing does have drag routes and backside digs and backs coming into the flat for the short completion, its just that Luck tries to force balls downfield when he does have an outlet. Now if we had a coordinator with that dink and dunk offense in this era i would probably lose my mind with the kind of receivers and tight ends we have we have to take our shots when available, especially how quick the PI flags fly in todays NFL an incomplete deep ball can turn into a quick 40yrd gain that quick. Now what I would like to see is more roll out stuff getting Luck out the pocket where he is most effective on the run. that dink and dunk offense at some point good corners are going to jump those curls, quick slants, and in/out routes because they won't have to worry about the double move as much. I guess its all about your preference, I like Arians offense for the most part, another offseason in this system and with most of the same players and more development of the rookies in this offense should be an even better joy to watch than this year. Hopefully Ijilana is fine to continue to play football next year because Lord knows we need help at the Guard position

#12 Brooklyn Colt

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:34 AM

Great thread..despite us winning I'm still not a fan of Arians play-calling and how he wants to handcuff Luck to the pocket..you can't put restrictions on a young Qb because it leads to hesitation in decision-making which leads to bad plays occuring..i'm a little dissapointed how Arians has yet tried to make any adjustments to keep the defense honest so Luck doesn't get hit so much..what needs to happen for Arians to realize this? its like the WR bubble screen play is the only short yardage high percentage play he has in his playbook..if he gets offered a HC position in the offseason I wouldn't be mad at all..

#13 Brooklyn Colt

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:27 AM

A fan's rant on stampede blue:

It's a really hard topic to write about. He had a hand in developing two great QBs in Manning and Rothlesberger. He has helped hold the team together in the wake of Pagano's illness. He is a really likeable guy. That being said, it is not hard to see why he was run out of town in Pittsburgh.

He seems to find a way to self destruct a game as often as he finds a great play to call. His performance in theTitans game was beyond bad today. He continues to telegraph run plays out of the power formation for no gains and losses. He insists on a vertical pass game with no line to protect his QB. He continues to push for below average players to play over those who outplay them (Seth Olson anyone?). His game plan has been a disaster as it has resulted in his QB struggling to complete 50 percentage of his passes and a not so great turnover ratio.


He has to set Luck up to be more successfull. That means running different plays out of the same looks. Don't spread it on pass plays and run out of power formations all the time. Give him so bootlegs, some draws, some short passes to keep the third downs manageable. Luck has really bailed Arians out this year on third down and late in games. Tailor the game plan to what you have to work with. Get the TEs involved more. You spent a 2nd and 3rd pick on two TEs you hardly use.


Arians looks like a failure as an OC when you look at what Seattle, Miami, and Washington have done to help their QBs. If it wasn't for the success the team is having, people would be calling for his head. He needs to be more flexible in what he wants to do and this team would have a lot easier time moving the ball and winning games. I don't want to completely rail on a guy when we are winning, but the more I watch this team the more I think we are winning in spite of him.

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#14 lollygagger8

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:54 AM

I want to see luck rolling out of the pocket. As a designed play for once, and not him running for his life. He is very good on the run, let the guy roll out. The pocket collapsed on him almost every other play, it was ridiculous. You can't play the same exact way for every defense you come up against. I like the play calling, but there's not alot of adjustments for who we are playing. That needs to happen.

Give the guy some dump off passes if you are going to have 4 out of the five receivers run 20 yard routes. Ray Rice has made a career out of 5 yard passes! Between Ballard and Brown, we have the technology! lol

#15 YOUR GM

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:05 AM

I just pray that all this success gets him a ticket out of here. This is our best chance to get rid of him after this season. If he doesn't get a HC gig, Irsay and Grigson will probably feel obligated to keep him here because of how he's kept the team together during Pagano's illness.

Then again, loyalty hasn't been this franchises strong suit lately, so maybe they'll take a critical look at his offense and force him to change or get kicked to the curb........ (I can dream, can't I?)
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#16 Dudley Smith

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:17 AM

I love a deep shot in a play. You never know when it can result in a cheap touchdown due to a broken coverage. I do not like 3+ 20 yard routes without an outlet/hot route. It's asking for your QB to be hit.

The OL that we currently have would look exponentially better if they were blocking in a WCO.


I'm on the side that believes the problem is more of an O-line problem than BA, but I can definitely agree with the outlet/hot route. A lot of these plays don't have one, and when your options are essentially two receivers heading downfield for 20 yards, or two others who are 10-15 yards out, it can lead to holding onto the ball too long like Luck does. Letting the RB come out of the backfield or a WR running across the field 5 yards off the LOS would be a good idea. Agreed.

#17 PrincetonTiger

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:17 AM

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#18 Tark The Shark

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:21 AM

Arians play-calling has been very suspect which is why we don't really beat down teams when we have the lead. Our team is built for one possession games. No more than that.

I am surprised Arians can't realize that he is eventually going to get Luck injured if they keep this up. We have 2 healthy TEs that are big targets and yet they aren't a part of the passing offense. And when Luck tried to throw to Fleener, he overthrew him, everytime.

We should have more draw run plays because the Titans were playing very aggressive and there were gaping holes in the line.

The positive thing about this is, next year we will have plenty of money to spend on the O-line which is the most important thing to get next year. And Grigson is a former O-lineman so he knows how to look for talent.
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#19 HarassedOffTheSite

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:27 AM

I'm on the side that believes the problem is more of an O-line problem than BA,


^^That^^

but I can definitely agree with the outlet/hot route. A lot of these plays don't have one


Because they're kept in on protection. We have outs but their first assignment is chip or straight up block...then bleed out into the middle or flat.


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#20 schwamm

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:28 AM

OK, this probably requires creditting Arians with an extraordinarily high level of long term thinking...

But I wonder...

Is it possible that the thinking is that the Colts were playing with house money this year anyway, and the deep ball was considered Luck's weakest attribute coming out of college, so why not devote the year to working out kinks in that part of his game? And better still, have him learn to do so under more pressure than he will when the team presumably addresses its OLine issues?

Looked at from that perspective, Luck will be that much further along in his development next year because if it, and the 9-4 record this year becomes an even greater achievement, and a huge bonus...

It is something I thought about months ago, and something I would have wanted to do if I was coach, but it's otherwise just wild speculation on my part.

I am forever grateful for all the great players I've been fortunate enough to watch play the game with horseshoes on their helmets,

and I'm eagerly anticipating the opportunity to see which new Colts become the stars and fan favorites of tomorrow.


#21 Mameluc

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:33 AM

for the first time, im gonna complain about Arians.

I thought he was stupid late in the first half when it was obvius the OL had was in disarray and Luck was getting hammered...and he still called 5 WR routs with no help on the OL.

stubborn.

he did adjust in the 2nd half

#22 Balzer40

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:45 AM

Regardless of Arians playcalling, This staff seems to be really good at making the proper halftime adjustments. There are things that drive me a little crazy and I wish he would try to make it easier for Luck to get into a good rhythm at the beginning of the game, but this team seems to really flourish in the 2nd half of games after the adjustments have been made.

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#23 ColtsBlueFL

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:10 AM

OK, this probably requires creditting Arians with an extraordinarily high level of long term thinking...

But I wonder...

Is it possible that the thinking is that the Colts were playing with house money this year anyway, and the deep ball was considered Luck's weakest attribute coming out of college, so why not devote the year to working out kinks in that part of his game? And better still, have him learn to do so under more pressure than he will when the team presumably addresses its OLine issues?

Looked at from that perspective, Luck will be that much further along in his development next year because if it, and the 9-4 record this year becomes an even greater achievement, and a huge bonus...

It is something I thought about months ago, and something I would have wanted to do if I was coach, but it's otherwise just wild speculation on my part.


He's teaching Luck, indeed. I've heard BA mic'd up telling Luck, "You gotta throw that one away, son'. Once, Luck started to respond, but then stopped mid sentence and said" you're right. I need to throw that away."

BA never yells at Luck, but does pull him aside, gives him some wisdom in the situation, pat him on the head and basically says, go get it done next drive. I like it.
“There’s no question he’s (Luck) a complete football player and one of the top quarterbacks in this league already. He has a great career in front of him but I think he’s already established himself as a very poised and talented player that can do a lot of things to beat you and he manages his team well and plays good situational football.” -New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick

#24 chad72

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:15 AM

Regardless of Arians playcalling, This staff seems to be really good at making the proper halftime adjustments. There are things that drive me a little crazy and I wish he would try to make it easier for Luck to get into a good rhythm at the beginning of the game, but this team seems to really flourish in the 2nd half of games after the adjustments have been made.


True.

Arians did switch to running outside the tackles more and our run game improved. Once that happened, teams came up a little more and it made it easier to throw those 20 yard passes. One thing I did like was Luck taking more crossing routes, a small improvement, if you should call that. You have to do that with a speedster like T.Y.Hilton.






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