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vinsanity

Bruce Arians' offense

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Great Topic and great post....

Of course, the big theory says BA is the one who got us here - and we certainly have to honor that - but I think it has pretty much been the talent of Luck with a big dose of LUCK.

I do agree on many points - what makes me the craziest is when they run to set up the play action on first and second down, then on third down go to an empty backfield, completely nullifying the play action they were trying so hard to set up.

If they just keep a running back in backfield position it at least creates a little mystery about what they might be doing, and sets up the opportunity for the fake. I will never understand this....

I guess BA just thinks, hey - it's ok if they know what we are doing - they still have to stop it.

Only thing I can think of...

ColtsHappy

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Arians 2 SB appearances he won 1

Actually 3, 2 wins and 1 loss. He was Steelers WR coach under Bill Cowher in Super XL (2005 season).

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For what it's worth, I compile a few stats from Steelers in previous years and Colts this year.

2007 Steelers

12 23 161 4 TD

286 yds rushing

21 34 242 1 TD 1 Int

184 yds rushing

13 20 160 1 TD

205 yds rushing

23 34 278 2 TD 1 Int

159 rushing

2010 Steelers mid year

16 27 257 3 TD 1 Int

121 rushing

19 27 302 2

58 rushing

17 28 195 0 TD 1 Int

108 rushing (L to Saints))

18 29 275 3 TD

162 rushing

2011 Steelers

22 41 280 i TD 3 Int

66 rushing (L 35-7 to Ravens)

22 30 298 3 TD

124 rushing

25 37 364 1 TD 1 Int

67 rushing (vs. colts!)

16 30 206 0 TD 1 Int

118 rushing (L to Texans)

21 33 245 1 TD 1 Int

105 rushing

Colts 2012

23 45 309 1 TD 3 Int

63 rushing (L)

20 31 224 2 TD

81 rushing

22 46 313 2 TD 1 Int

124 rushing

31 55 362 2 TD 1 Int

119 rushing (Packers)

22 44 289 0 TD 2 Int

41 rushing (L)

16 29 186 0

148 rushing

26 38 297 1 TD 1 Int

171 rushing

30 48 433 2 TD

97 rushing

18 26 227 0 TD 1 Int

138 rushing

27 50 334 2 TD 3 Int

119 rushing (L)

20 37 240 1 TD 1 Int

87 rushing

25 54 391 4 TD 3 Int

87 rushing

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Yeah I dismiss the nonsense from Pittsburg. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. They're still no better. Arians wasn't the problem.

Arians cannot make the Oline execute. The protection problems are on them, Grigson and the reality of our situation. Not BA.

i agree with the oline being the problem...which is why most people want to see more out of the short passing game....that's really my only complaint.

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Yeah I dismiss the nonsense from Pittsburg. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. They're still no better. Arians wasn't the problem.

Arians cannot make the Oline execute. The protection problems are on them, Grigson and the reality of our situation. Not BA.

Roethlisberger has been out 3 games and is probably having one of his best statistical seasons of his career. His sacks are down A LOT, has a 100 QB rating, and has a 4 to 1 TD to Int ratio.

They could easily be sitting at 9-3 or 8-4 had he been playing.

Its all about playing to the strengths of your personnel and Arians is to incompetent to realize that...

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Roethlisberger has been out 3 games and is probably having one of his best statistical seasons of his career. His sacks are down A LOT, has a 100 QB rating, and has a 4 to 1 TD to Int ratio.

They could easily be sitting at 9-3 or 8-4 had he been playing.

Its all about playing to the strengths of your personnel and Arians is to incompetent to realize that...

Well, Bruce Arians has been Peyton Manning's, QB coach, and an O coordinator for Ben Roethlisburger and cuurently HC/O Coordinator for Andrew Luck. He might even be courted for a HC job next season on another team next year. All the while all the real experts hash out what he really should do here on the Colts fan forum. ;)

“If you listen to the fans, you’ll be sitting with them soon enough.” Buddy Ryan, Brian Cashman, and Bill Polian.**

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Well, Bruce Arians has been Peyton Manning's, QB coach, and an O coordinator for Ben Roethlisburger and cuurently HC/O Coordinator for Andrew Luck. He might even be courted for a HC job next season on another team next year. All the while all the real experts hash out what he really should do here on the Colts fan forum. ;)

“If you listen to the fans, you’ll be sitting with them soon enough.” Buddy Ryan, Brian Cashman, and Bill Polian.**

He doesn't need to listen us and just like in Pittsburgh he'll be the reason for his demise..

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Recipe for Disaster:

Mix one oft injured, thrown together O-Line with...

a Rookie and average at BEST vet RB

one excellent veteran WR with a 4-5 Rookie receiving corp with one more WR coming back from knee inj.

a Rookie QB asked to hang in there till someone gets open 15-20 yds downfield

Hahahaha! Noone would want a plan like that. But in many ways it is working. There wasn`t much chance we were going to establish a Top Ten running game this season.

What bewilders and tickles the .... out of me is, Luck is leading us on MANY 75-80 yards drives with such a modest running game. It IS the long passes getting us down the field. And we run more plays than our oposition most every week. Impressive considering the youth and our O-Line issues.

Arians will have a better O-Line in year two, surely someone better than Donald Brown, and with a season of experience and an off season, we will have a much better idea where OUR offense stacks up against the league.

Considering the yards we are putting up with Andrew making all these bad throws and the bad decisions now, year two should be Very IMPRESSIVE.

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I have to say, I am really not a fan of BA. I give the guy all the credit in the world for leading this team this far but I really don't see our offense being sustainable. Heres why:

1. There is no cohesion between run & pass. Run plays look exactly like run plays in this offense, and pass plays look like pass plays. There is no "running to set up play action" or "spreading them out to run". It is an extremely predictable offense, but not in a good way like the old Manning/Colts system.

2. The system takes precedence over the talent, instead of vice versa. Frequently, this team is in 3 or 4 WR sets, when the talent would indicate 2 TE sets are more appropriate. The plays often require alot of time to develop and have 5 players in routes, when this offensive line would be better off on quick plays or blocking help. Even just some designed roll outs would make more sense with this QB than what we are doing.

3. Arians is willing to let Luck fail when it comes to passes, yet he isn't letting the team learn other lessons. He mentioned on the radio that he doesn't trust them to run no huddle more because of the other rookies and that he would never allow Luck the amount of freedom that Manning developed. There are college teams that require their freshmen to run no huddle offenses the entire game, professionals aren't capable of that? He has one of the most intelligent QBs to come out of college, if you don't trust him, who would you trust.

4. This offense doesn't seem to have any of the cutting edge features of modern offenses. It isn't fast, it doesn't have multiple play packages in 1 play, it doesn't use no huddle except when it has to. It doesn't take advantage of athletic mismatches with TE. In sum, in the middle of an offensive revolution, Arians is a bastion of the old way.

Contrast that to what is going on in Was. There the coaches have a system they have developed over decades, and are famous for. Yet when they looked at their team, and the expanding landscape of offenses they modified their system to fit their teams talent, not tried to make the talent fit in their system.

New England is another example. Every year, they change and tweak their offensive system to match the talent they have. Seems to be working out for them. I bet if you grabbed an offensive player from the Steelers of the last few years, they could tell you what Arians plays are named.

Long story short:

The Colts were 1-7 in 1 possession games last year, this year they've flipped that. These 2 teams are only marginally different in actual ability, and at least from an offensive play calling perspective, I've seen nothing to say the new system is better than the old.

Maybe you should root for the Steelers they have the same opinion of BA and his abilities as offensive coordinator that you do. Maybe you would be happier over there.

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He doesn't need to listen us and just like in Pittsburgh he'll be the reason for his demise..

OTOH, He has won more Super Bowls than Peyton Manning. He won one as Wide Reciver coach at Pittsburgh just before he became their OC. Thereafter, he is 1-1. And he got a job quite quickly after he was released by Steelers. He has a rag tag and rookie bunch heading into the playoffs. Stories of his demise are premature.

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Roethlisberger has been out 3 games and is probably having one of his best statistical seasons of his career.

I mean I guess that is impressive? I don't know, not sure what you're going for here. Regardless, being on the field and putting up Ws is what matters to the NFL people who set up the playoff brackets.

They could easily be sitting at 9-3 or 8-4 had he been playing.

And they could easily be 6-6. What's your point?

Its all about playing to the strengths of your personnel and Arians is to incompetent to realize that...

Ok.

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He'll have no choice. At some point Luck is going to take over this offense.

BA would be wise to stay put, give the kid the reigns, lay back and....cash his checks/bask in the sunlight/retire with that many more rings.

If he gets more freedom than Ben, Arians' offense could turn out to be the perfect match for Luck's capabilities. The question is, when will he be turned lose?

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Yeah I dismiss the nonsense from Pittsburg. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. They're still no better. Arians wasn't the problem.

Arians cannot make the Oline execute. The protection problems are on them, Grigson and the reality of our situation. Not BA.

you can dismiss it but that does not make it any less true about Arians and his failure to realize that because the O Line is failing to execute (which I have said from the moment we got a couple of them that that would happen.)to adjust to our lack of talent at O Line. What do you do when your Franchise QB is getting hit over an average of 7 times a game? you adjust. whats Arians do? keeps right on truckin along like we have an O Line, we cant run the ball consistently thats been well established (another thing I was sure would be the case) yet Arians rarely uses Brown properly (pre injury), Of course Arians cant make the O Line execute, thats a given. But he can work around that. As for our wins and losses, were winning on Arians watch and at the end of the day wins and losses count more then anything, I'd even go as far to say the single BIGGEST reason is Arians playcalling style but MORE SO Lucks ability to stand firm in the pocket, move around and adjust to D Linemen and Linebackers flying all around him, hanging all over him and delivering shot after shot to him and completing passes down field(Not alot og QB's out there would be able to handle that) but just because Luck is doing better then expected his rookie year (along with a couple other rookies) that does not mean that Arians has a clue about calling plays or managing a football game, Hey I love Arians as a motivator and he seems like a great guy and yes his down the field vertical playcalling style of play has been affective enough, I get that. But much of the time its led to drives stalling, Luck taking many unnecessary shots because of long developing routes with a bad O Line(part of it because he does hang onto the ball to long at times). Arians refuses to aknowledge that Luck is a mobile QB just from the looks of games because rarely does he call for Luck to roll out on plays.
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Thumbs up to vinsanity, FireJimCaldwell, Gavin, ahf321 and BleedBlu8792. What you see from Bruce Arians' offense is what you get. There's no rhyme or reason to the play-calling. The formations tip off too many of the plays. (Eventually a "bubble" screen will get intercepted.) First downs are wasted more often than not. Pass plays take too long to develop. The route distribution is terrible, and sucks out loud in the red zone. There aren't enough checkdowns, and the short passing game is basically ignored. Lots of yards are gained, but few points are scored. Adjustments are seldom made. The TEs are neglected. (Notice how much more prominent Heath Miller is for the Steelers this season.)

Thumbs down to Brian Casserly. If Ben Roethlisberger is so dumb, then please answer the following questions for me:

1. How does he have the highest third-down passer rating in the NFL this season?

2. How does he have the third-lowest INT percentage in the NFL this season?

3. How is his combined INT percentage over the last three seasons a scant 1.9%?

4. How does he have only two games with multiple INTs in his last 41 starts?

5. How has his sack percentage dropped from 7.2% last season to 5.4% this season despite the offensive line being essentially the same?

6. How is his TD percentage identical to Tom Brady's (5.4%) this season, and the highest it's been since 2007?

7. How was he able to learn a brand-new system of offense so quickly this past off-season?

Actually, I'll answer #5 and #6 for you myself. The answer to #5 is that Todd Haley, the new offensive coordinator, has many more short routes in his system than Arians ever had in his. In Arians' offense, the ball is held a long time by design, because his pass plays take forever to develop. The answer to #6 is that Haley's system has superior route distribution in the red zone than Arians', which makes it harder to defend because not every eligible receiver is running into the end zone before the ball is thrown.

Haley examined Arians' playbook this past March, and ended up throwing the whole thing in the trash except for some of the blocking schemes. That says it all, as far as I'm concerned. Arians never "dumbed down" the playbook for Roethlisberger; it was dumb to begin with, and it made both Roethlisberger and the offensive line look worse than they are. And it appears that Arians is now making Andrew Luck look worse than he is, considering Robert Griffin III is getting more publicity and respect. Even the Browns fired Arians as their offensive coordinator once upon a time, and Browns fans had all the same complaints about him that Steeler fans had. He didn't last long in Cleveland because he didn't have a Roethlisberger or a Luck to mask the deficiencies of his system and method. Plain and simple, Bruce Arians is a poor man's Mike Martz, and Luck will more than likely not be perceived as an elite NFL QB until he is removed from Arians' influence. Arians wasted part of Roethlisberger's prime, and I'm afraid he's about to waste Luck's formative years. He's not suited to be anything more than a position coach.

By the way, points per game for the Steelers decreased markedly after Roethlisberger was injured. They scored six against the Chiefs in essentially two quarters after his injury, 10 in the first game against the Ravens, seven against the Browns (another seven were scored by the defense), and 23 in the second game against the Ravens, who thought all they had to do to win was show up. Their maximum scoring output without Roethlisberger was their average scoring output with Roethlisberger. He's a smarter QB than he's ever been given credit for.

"Gradually over time, Roethlisberger has gotten better and better. He's more aware before the snap of the ball, and he's more disciplined in the pocket. While he still has the ability to impress with his idiosyncratic combination of physicality and movement, his game is now less arbitrary, less random, more structured, and therefore more consistent. This is rarely acknowledged, however, because there has been no clear, quantifiable means by which to measure the progress." -Greg Cosell c. June 2012

"It wasn't that long ago that Roethlisberger was a one-read quarterback. If the first guy in the route wasn't open, he'd scramble to try to make something happen. It's not like that anymore." -Mark Kaboly (Pittsburgh Tribune-Review) c. September 2012

"We're a game-plan offense, and we're going to try to tailor our strengths against their weaknesses." -Todd Haley c. August 2012

"We're not going to change what we do regardless of who our opponent is or who's injured." -Bruce Arians c. November 2010

Not trying to rain on anybody's parade, just sharing my concerns now that some Colts fans have voiced similar concerns.

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Roethlisburger is no different pre Arians tha during Arians time.

2012

RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G

1 Aaron Rodgers, QB GB 279 414 67.4 3,124 7.55 72 29 8 39 105.0 260

6 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 209 316 66.1 2,287 7.24 82 17 4 18 100.0 254

2 Robert Griffin III, QB WSH 218 325 67.1 2,660 8.19 88 17 4 25 104.4 222

29 Andrew Luck, QB IND 279 503 55.5 3,596 7.15 60 17 16 28 76.1 300

2011

9 Alex Smith, QB SF 273 445 61.3 3,144 7.07 56 17 5 44 90.7 197

10 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 324 513 63.2 4,077 7.95 95 21 14 40 90.1 272

2008

5 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 337 506 66.6 4,328 8.55 60 26 12 50 100.5 289

10 Matt Cassel, QB NE 327 516 63.4 3,693 7.16 76 21 11 47 89.4 231

Pre Bruce Arians-

2006

21 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 280 469 59.7 3,513 7.49 67 18 23 46 75.4 234

2005

3 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 168 268 62.7 2,385 8.90 85 17 9 23 98.6 199

2004

5 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 196 295 66.4 2,621 8.89 58 17 11 30 98.1 187

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What stands out here? The completion % and Int rate for A. Luck! Everything else is completely in line. And I looked at multitudes of QB stats, just pulled a few for brevity. Ben wae Ben before Arians, and similar with Arians. Luck is not getting sacked at any higher rate than Ben or Rodgers was. Luck being a rookie and playing with a lot of other skill position rookies explain most of the stats that stand out. Yes, a better O line would help, but most every team needs o-line help. That is why you can't find decent replacements when your A and B players get injured.

I have plenty of stats I've dug up and I continue to do so. I will use them place a new light on the Arians subject. I do not beleive we are in the pit of the abyss, and it is all due to Bruce Arians dad gum quarterback killing system. ;)

Sorry- i wish I could get my text to format properly. i guess no more notepad whilst I look for suitable alternatives...

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If he gets more freedom than Ben...

Which I think he will just by virtue of the fact that he prolly scores 100 more points on an IQ test.

The question is, when will he be turned lose?

That probably won't be BA's call. When Luck decides to start pulling the trigger there's nothing BA can really do about it.

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haha yes! Thumbs up to all those whose opinions line up with those of the Pittsburg Steelers fan. ;)

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Kudos to Knutella0 and to ColtsBlueFL for the insightful information.

I really feel that BA will be moving on to a head coaching job somewhere soon - I predict next year - so most of these issues will change or hopefully resolve themselves.

I think with a guy who has as much Football IQ as Andrew, leaning new wrinkles - or even a new system with a new co-ordinator will be a plus. - I think he is the kind of guy who needs to see and learn everything out there eventually - so that he can pick and choose the schemes and plays that he connects with and that he wants to add to his repertoire long term.

GO COLTS!

ColtsHappy

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Thumbs up to vinsanity, FireJimCaldwell, Gavin, ahf321 and BleedBlu8792. What you see from Bruce Arians' offense is what you get. There's no rhyme or reason to the play-calling. The formations tip off too many of the plays. (Eventually a "bubble" screen will get intercepted.) First downs are wasted more often than not. Pass plays take too long to develop. The route distribution is terrible, and sucks out loud in the red zone. There aren't enough checkdowns, and the short passing game is basically ignored. Lots of yards are gained, but few points are scored. Adjustments are seldom made. The TEs are neglected. (Notice how much more prominent Heath Miller is for the Steelers this season.)

Thumbs down to Brian Casserly. If Ben Roethlisberger is so dumb, then please answer the following questions for me:

1. How does he have the highest third-down passer rating in the NFL this season?

2. How does he have the third-lowest INT percentage in the NFL this season?

3. How is his combined INT percentage over the last three seasons a scant 1.9%?

4. How does he have only two games with multiple INTs in his last 41 starts?

5. How has his sack percentage dropped from 7.2% last season to 5.4% this season despite the offensive line being essentially the same?

6. How is his TD percentage identical to Tom Brady's (5.4%) this season, and the highest it's been since 2007?

7. How was he able to learn a brand-new system of offense so quickly this past off-season?

Actually, I'll answer #5 and #6 for you myself. The answer to #5 is that Todd Haley, the new offensive coordinator, has many more short routes in his system than Arians ever had in his. In Arians' offense, the ball is held a long time by design, because his pass plays take forever to develop. The answer to #6 is that Haley's system has superior route distribution in the red zone than Arians', which makes it harder to defend because not every eligible receiver is running into the end zone before the ball is thrown.

Haley examined Arians' playbook this past March, and ended up throwing the whole thing in the trash except for some of the blocking schemes. That says it all, as far as I'm concerned. Arians never "dumbed down" the playbook for Roethlisberger; it was dumb to begin with, and it made both Roethlisberger and the offensive line look worse than they are. And it appears that Arians is now making Andrew Luck look worse than he is, considering Robert Griffin III is getting more publicity and respect. Even the Browns fired Arians as their offensive coordinator once upon a time, and Browns fans had all the same complaints about him that Steeler fans had. He didn't last long in Cleveland because he didn't have a Roethlisberger or a Luck to mask the deficiencies of his system and method. Plain and simple, Bruce Arians is a poor man's Mike Martz, and Luck will more than likely not be perceived as an elite NFL QB until he is removed from Arians' influence. Arians wasted part of Roethlisberger's prime, and I'm afraid he's about to waste Luck's formative years. He's not suited to be anything more than a position coach.

By the way, points per game for the Steelers decreased markedly after Roethlisberger was injured. They scored six against the Chiefs in essentially two quarters after his injury, 10 in the first game against the Ravens, seven against the Browns (another seven were scored by the defense), and 23 in the second game against the Ravens, who thought all they had to do to win was show up. Their maximum scoring output without Roethlisberger was their average scoring output with Roethlisberger. He's a smarter QB than he's ever been given credit for.

"Gradually over time, Roethlisberger has gotten better and better. He's more aware before the snap of the ball, and he's more disciplined in the pocket. While he still has the ability to impress with his idiosyncratic combination of physicality and movement, his game is now less arbitrary, less random, more structured, and therefore more consistent. This is rarely acknowledged, however, because there has been no clear, quantifiable means by which to measure the progress." -Greg Cosell c. June 2012

"It wasn't that long ago that Roethlisberger was a one-read quarterback. If the first guy in the route wasn't open, he'd scramble to try to make something happen. It's not like that anymore." -Mark Kaboly (Pittsburgh Tribune-Review) c. September 2012

"We're a game-plan offense, and we're going to try to tailor our strengths against their weaknesses." -Todd Haley c. August 2012

"We're not going to change what we do regardless of who our opponent is or who's injured." -Bruce Arians c. November 2010

Not trying to rain on anybody's parade, just sharing my concerns now that some Colts fans have voiced similar concerns.

I knew what we were getting into as soon as we hired him as coordinator, but I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt early in the season. He is who he is, and doesn't want to change. Your comparison of him to Martz is spot on, and I think I've even said the same thing on this forum at some point. I can't for the life of me understand why Pagano chose him as coordinator, being that his mission statement for the offense was to run the ball, control the clock. Knowing Arians tendencies (they've coached with and against each other prior to this season), the hiring made no sense. Arians is the exact opposite of what Pagano said he wanted out of an offense.

The scheme and tendencies could be tweak/fixed, but the play-caller can't. Any coach who deliberately goes into every game with the exact same gameplan, week-after-week, with no adjustments whatsoever is either a simpleton or a stubborn fool. Eitherway, those characteristics don't make for any sort of sustained success, in the long run. Here's to hoping someone is dumb enough to hire him as a head coach next season. He can go grab Martz and Reid off the street as his coordinators and they can go * to go-routes and empty sets all season long, without interruption

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hopefully pagano will force arians to adjust when he returns...it's the job of the head coach to coach the coaches.

Pagano still has input to his team. They listen to Arians, but Pagano isn't out of the loop. If he wasn't on board with Arians tactics, he would have already made his intentions known to him, as he has to Manusky. Pagano still watches and text's items to the players themselves. He has made alterations to the D, but continues to leave all O decisions to Arians, as mentioned in story below.

http://www.usatoday....pagano/1741905/

If we could run, Luck could pass better. Our run game is atrocious. we bail on it because it isn't effective and we have to keep up in scoring. Our o line was rag tag to begin with and now seems full of out of position practice squad material. And our adjustments after the half have been quite successful for the most part.

Ben never threw all that much at Pitt because they could and did run. Been still had higher sack rates and also a higher completion % than Luck does here. Luck is sacked 1 in every 18 drop backs. The numbers I researched over many seasons for Roethlisburger has been a sack about 10 drop backs. Lots of other QBs are sacked and hit as often as luck. (Rodgers anyone?) Yet they still have high TD numbers and high completion percentages. Lucks low numbers isn't anything but a Rookie throwing to 1 vet and a lot of other rookies. All of the rookies making mistakes along the way. Yet, through all of this, we are 8-4 and in the drivers seat for playoffs. We should not even be here, yet we are. And BA made it happen. He is 7 - 2 since taking over.

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Brian Casserly should learn how to spell 'Pittsburgh' properly before insulting anybody's intelligence.

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Brian Casserly should learn how to spell 'Pittsburgh' properly before insulting anybody's intelligence.

Ahhh the spell check post....last redoubt of he erroneous. ;)

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"We're not going to change what we do regardless of who our opponent is or who's injured." -Bruce Arians c. November 2010

well that is alarming...

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Great Topic and great post....

Of course, the big theory says BA is the one who got us here - and we certainly have to honor that - but I think it has pretty much been the talent of Luck with a big dose of LUCK.

I do agree on many points - what makes me the craziest is when they run to set up the play action on first and second down, then on third down go to an empty backfield, completely nullifying the play action they were trying so hard to set up.

If they just keep a running back in backfield position it at least creates a little mystery about what they might be doing, and sets up the opportunity for the fake. I will never understand this....

I guess BA just thinks, hey - it's ok if they know what we are doing - they still have to stop it.

Only thing I can think of...

ColtsHappy

Good point. Too often the play is telegraphed Like you mentioned, the empty backfield gives away the pass. But also when the bring in a jumbo package to run, there is little change anything else can happen.

Look what the threat of the run does for RGIII. On pretty much every play you never know if he is going to hand off, throw, or run himself. Hesitation kills defenses

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Well, Bruce Arians has been Peyton Manning's, QB coach, and an O coordinator for Ben Roethlisburger and cuurently HC/O Coordinator for Andrew Luck. He might even be courted for a HC job next season on another team next year. All the while all the real experts hash out what he really should do here on the Colts fan forum. ;)

“If you listen to the fans, you’ll be sitting with them soon enough.” Buddy Ryan, Brian Cashman, and Bill Polian.**

Good point. However, Norv Turner was the offensive coordinator for the great Dallas offense. ran the Chargers high scoring offense, and has been an NFL head coach three times. I doubt anyone would consider him a top notch coach.

Something I always respected about Don Shula is that he played to the strength of his team. When he has Csonka, Kiick, Morris, and Griese they were a running team. When he had Marino, it was airing it out. I know Arians has been a successful coach. I just question if what he is running is to Lucks strengths.

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I seriously think people are piling on BA too much. Could/Should he incorporate more of a short passing game into the gameplan? I think he should. I think we are all in agreement on that. However, I think when an O-line this bad is in place, the guy deserves at least a couple of years, preferably with a better O-line, to show what his offense is capable of. I actually like the offense BA runs. I like the risks it takes in this type of NFL where pass interference calls are called regularly. If he would put in a few shorter routes into the scheme I think it would be the perfect offense for Luck for the next few seasons. Like I said, I am not saying BA is perfect as an OC. But the amount of criticism he gets, especially when the team under him is now 8-2 and Luck has had some great games running the offense, seems a little unreasonable.

I also don't know if I would bank on him getting offered a HC position mostly due to his age. He has had a few mental lapses throughout the year when managing the clock, which is obviously pretty important for a HC to be able to do well. He has proven to be a tremendous motivator, but I am not sure that is enough to get him an HC job. I think he is much better suited as OC than an HC in the long haul.

If we do lose him, I am not worried though. I think Luck can be successful running any offense. Guess we will have to wait and see.

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For those not on the side of BA...did you actually watch the game yesterday? The second Luck's back foot hit his drop he had pressure. You cant say the issue is deep routes when there is no time to throw. Also you ever notice Luck's eyes are looking past the short routes and always looking deep?

Lastly for those comments about certain formations telegraphing plays...what ever happened to saying "we are going to run the ball, try to stop us"!

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For those not on the side of BA...did you actually watch the game yesterday? The second Luck's back foot hit his drop he had pressure. You cant say the issue is deep routes when there is no time to throw. Also you ever notice Luck's eyes are looking past the short routes and always looking deep?

Arians is at fault because he constantly called 5 man protections, KNOWING the line was struggling to block as it was. When he empties the backfield on critical downs, he's pretty much inviting the pass rushers to pen their ears back and tee off on our QB. I don't have an exact stat on this, but I'm almost positive the majority of Luck's turnovers this season have come when we're in that GD empty formation.

Lastly for those comments about certain formations telegraphing plays...what ever happened to saying "we are going to run the ball, try to stop us"!

What happened to it? Well, the defense said, "OK," and proceeded to stop it.... REPEATEDLY

Our best runs came when we had 3 receivers and spread them out, or when we ran outside the tackles. The runs up the gut in heavy formations yielded no positive results.

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For those not on the side of BA...did you actually watch the game yesterday? The second Luck's back foot hit his drop he had pressure. You cant say the issue is deep routes when there is no time to throw. Also you ever notice Luck's eyes are looking past the short routes and always looking deep?

Lastly for those comments about certain formations telegraphing plays...what ever happened to saying "we are going to run the ball, try to stop us"!

I don't know if it is that we are on the side or not of BA. I think it is fair to give an opinion on what you think players or coaches are doing without having to side against them.

And I actually did watch the game. I watch all of them. Sure, Luck got tremendous pressure. But that is more reason to call some other types of plays. Throw a few screens to slow the pass rush down a little. Do one of Mannings signature plays where he got the snap and immediate hit Clark over the middle. More play action fakes to at least get the defense thinking more.

I am just questioning where that type of offense can work successfully long term in an NFL where so many teams concede short passes with the idea that eventually something will go wrong, but defend long. Nothing against BA.

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We need something to change on offense next season is all that I'm going to say lol

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We need something to change on offense next season is all that I'm going to say lol

Agreed. New Olinemen. ;)

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Its not about choosing sides, who likes Bruce or who doesn't, its about protecting your franchise investment. Its about proper clock managment. Its about adjusting to your players talents and not stubbornly sticking to a gameplan. Its about not quitting on something just because your down 7 points (Luck has thrown 167 of his passes when coming from behind by 8 points or less), 31 percent of his throws.

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Did I mention despite all the 'venom' that is spewed on Arians (mostly by me) do to his lack of some necessary HC skills that his very scheme of down the field passes down after down is a big part in why we are where we are at in terms of wins and losses and an even BIGGER part of that is Lucks ability to not crack if things go against him and our wr's and Tight Ends and running backs ability to execute (such as the O Line). Despite what I say (and I fully believe what I say about his abilities) he is still the HC at this time who has us at 9-4.

I posted this in another thread. I figured it fit here as well.

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Next week will be huge. Either BA will be praised as a god if the Colts win or the pitchforks will be out in full force.

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Next week will be huge. Either BA will be praised as a god if the Colts win or the pitchforks will be out in full force.

"Pitchforks" is probably a little strong. I don't think most Colts fans truly expect us to win in Houston, although Houston is by no means invincible and we could surprise them. I doubt people will be any more negative towards BA than they are now unless it is a blowout loss. I think we do, however, have a good chance of knocking Houston off at home in the regular season finale-- whether they rest their starters or not.

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Next week will be huge. Either BA will be praised as a god if the Colts win or the pitchforks will be out in full force.

Neither will happen. But if either did, it would not matter. A lot of dust stirred up by vanity. The franchise is winning and the seats are sold out. And THAT is all that matters.

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Did I mention despite all the 'venom' that is spewed on Arians (mostly by me) do to his lack of some necessary HC skills that his very scheme of down the field passes down after down is a big part in why we are where we are at in terms of wins and losses and an even BIGGER part of that is Lucks ability to not crack if things go against him and our wr's and Tight Ends and running backs ability to execute (such as the O Line). Despite what I say (and I fully believe what I say about his abilities) he is still the HC at this time who has us at 9-4.

I posted this in another thread. I figured it fit here as well.

OK, that's about enough on that part. I got my camera out, fired up my HD-DVR and took many many pix from 1st half. Buckle up because here we go with just a few-

OK, 2nd down and we want BIG yards... hey who are those two short in front of me... must be linebackers, sorry I only go deep! ;)

2Hot_reads.jpg

OK, 3rd down, need plenty of yards, deep patterns for all! Hey,you two again, wait. A different two. Robert Hughes, Bruce says the playbook calls for all to go deep, or stay in and get steamrolled like the rest of the O-line, OK?

2out_short.jpg

Donnie, we NEVER run short hots, especially on 3rd and long! Get down the field darn it!

Hotroute1.jpg

Sigh, OK T.Y. since you seem bent on not going deep at all this game, I might just throw this for you. Better get some yards or my goose is cooked!

Hotroute2b.jpg

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OK, that's about enough on that part. I got my camera out, fired up my HD-DVR and took many many pix from 1st half. Buckle up because here we go with just a few...

Excellent post.

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10 guys within 7 yards of us again? I'm gonna be sore. I know I'l just flip it Reggie, now that I see he is now also running some of these short routes...

pick6_1.jpg

Oops, or maybe to Witherspoon. sorry Reggie.

pick6_2.jpg

Here Reggie. Let me make it up to you. How about a quick out.... OOPS!

Screen1_ouch.jpg

Hey 2nd and 15. We don't always have to go deep to get the first down, right? we got two downs to play with here. How about everyone do a quick slant. There's room to fit it in there.

Reggie_underneath.jpg

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Where's the Steelers dude who was raving over Rapelisburger and yammering on about the Colts' Interim Head Coach?

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