I give up making excuses for Luck's INTS

[chrisfarley]

RGIII is playing lights out right now, he is killing the GIANTS, they don't know how to stop the guy,... he is just so dangerous. Luck is a different type of player, not as athletic more of a drop back guy but luck and rgiii are hybrids.

[House]

RGIII is playing lights out right now, he is killing the GIANTS, they don't know how to stop the guy,... he is just so dangerous. Luck is a different type of player, not as athletic more of a drop back guy but luck and rgiii are hybrids.

Really? I thought he's looked okay to good tonight, but the run game is what's beating the Giants right now.

I've actually never watched a Griffin game where he's overthrown some receivers like he has tonight. Though you could credit that to the excellent Giant pass rush.

[chrisfarley]

looks like the Skins are going to win this one

[Malakai432]

Yeah RGiii played well, Morris talk about a diamond in the rough. Not suprising though with Shanahan involved.

[Qwiz]

Yeah RGiii played well, Morris talk about a diamond in the rough. Not suprising though with Shanahan involved.

The second coming of Arian Foster...

[ColtsBlueFL]

looks like the Skins are going to win this one

Steve young pretty much hinted after the game that RG3 should enjoy this while he is young and can take those hits, because this style play won't be conducive to a long career. He even confronted Griffin in post game interview regarding such.In

the interim, Redskins running base O from pistol / zone read is working for the time being. i wonder who the first D coordinator to devise a d scheme that is effective against it will be. Because,it will happen at some point.

[chrisfarley]

Steve young pretty much hinted after the game that RG3 should enjoy this while he is young and can take those hits, because this style play won't be conducive to a long career. He even confronted Griffin in post game interview regarding such.In

the interim, Redskins running base O from pistol / zone read is working for the time being. i wonder who the first D coordinator to devise a d scheme that is effective against it will be. Because,it will happen at some point.

yea, just watched it to as the people in the background were chanting, "RG3, RG3, RG3". I'm sure Robert had to go deflate his head because they were throwing compliemnt after compliment at him. We know he's a good guy but telling him over and over is just ad-nauseum. Nice to know when he goes out he has to disguise himself.

[Qwiz]

He's only going to get better as his career goes on and as long as that running game holds up he will be able to take hits just as much as Brady, Manning, or any other quarterback does in the pocket. He probably won't be running as much later on in his career, he's just a rookie with eager legs right now hahaha.

[dudeman]

I defended my opinion and didn't let insults from others slide. I don't get the cower comment so you'll have to copy and paste to explain that one. And what reallity do you mean? The reality that I stood my ground on what believe to be true. It looks like you're the one trying to ruffle some feathers lol

I'm not sure how calling people 'jokes' for disagreeing can possibly be considered defending your position.

But you didn't stood your ground. YOU APOLOGIZED IF YOU OFFENDED anyone, which we call caving without a backbone.

[Superman]

There are some on this forum that are blind homers for Luck. They either blame the oline, wrs not getting separation, even the coaching. Some say he's the only reason the Colts are 8-4. Some even rationalize that he's doing better than Manning in his rookie season, as if that's relevent. So I stand by my post. It was mostly a play on words. If it offended you..... sorry

It didn't offend me. I knew it was a play on words. But, as you support in this post, your inference was that some are blind homers, mostly those who aren't agreeing with you.

There are some who might be blind homers for Luck. That doesn't mean the offensive line isn't poor; it is. That doesn't mean receivers aren't getting open on a lot of plays; they aren't. Doesn't mean the coaching hasn't been an issue; some of Arians' play calls are plain awful. I'd say that Luck is the single biggest reason we're 8-4 right now, just like a lot of other teams can credit the quarterback for their record, good or bad.

Matter of fact, specifically regarding those last two points there (in bold above), I didn't think last year's team was as bad as it's record indicated. I think there were a handful of games we lost that we had a chance to win. If not for terrible coaching and terrible quarterback play, we probably don't start 0-13, and we probably don't finish with only two wins. I stated several times over the offseason that, assuming our coaching and quarterbacking was better, than we'd be good enough to win at least five or six games. So, specifically with regard to the play of the quarterback, I think it's obvious that Luck is a huge part of why we've won more games than anyone anticipated we would.

And, whether it's relevant or not, Luck is doing better than Manning as a rookie, in a lot of ways. Maybe not overall, and maybe it doesn't matter, but Manning threw far more interceptions than Luck is on pace for right now, and in far fewer attempts (4.9 interception rate for Manning, compared to Luck's 3.2 interception rate, which is pretty average, if not slightly better than average). Manning's interceptions were spread out over the season (only two games with no interceptions), while Luck's have mostly come in bunches (already three games with no interceptions, and two thirds of his picks have come in one third of his games, on the road). Luck is going to throw for more yards than Manning did (he's 143 yards away), he has a higher yards/attempt than Manning did, he's a more dangerous runner, and if you incorporate his rushing touchdowns, he's on pace to exceed the touchdowns Manning scored as a rookie.

That's without mentioning the eight wins for Luck's team (so far), compared with three wins for Manning's team.

None of that means I think Luck is better than Manning, or is going to be better than Manning. But apples to apples, there are a lot of ways to support the argument that Luck's rookie season is better than Manning's rookie season.

Despite his mistakes and shortcomings, Luck is having a pretty doggone good rookie season. He's on pace for 21 interceptions. That's way too high; we agree there, and I don't think there are very many fans who wouldn't agree, even the blind Luck homers. But I take solace in the fact that most of Luck's turnovers come on the road, and that even the best quarterback I've ever watched play owns the single season record for interceptions thrown. Because the next season, he cut that number in half and got his team into the playoffs.

In short, I think we'll be okay.

[JWF]

He's only going to get better as his career goes on and as long as that running game holds up he will be able to take hits just as much as Brady, Manning, or any other quarterback does in the pocket. He probably won't be running as much later on in his career, he's just a rookie with eager legs right now hahaha.

This.

[JWF]

yea, just watched it to as the people in the background were chanting, "RG3, RG3, RG3". I'm sure Robert had to go deflate his head because they were throwing compliemnt after compliment at him. We know he's a good guy but telling him over and over is just ad-nauseum. Nice to know when he goes out he has to disguise himself.

Yeah but Griffin isnt Cam Newton. I dont think he will let that get to his head.

[braveheartcolt]

I think they said Griffin is last on 3rd and longs. And Luck is 2nd. Griffin is great at what he does, but it can't last. Luck is good at what he does (overall), and will become great. Let's mark em in year 3.

[wig]

He's only going to get better as his career goes on and as long as that running game holds up he will be able to take hits just as much as Brady, Manning, or any other quarterback does in the pocket. He probably won't be running as much later on in his career, he's just a rookie with eager legs right now hahaha.

Brady and Manning run the option?

[jemack]

I'm not sure how calling people 'jokes' for disagreeing can possibly be considered defending your position.

But you didn't stood your ground. YOU APOLOGIZED IF YOU OFFENDED anyone, which we call caving without a backbone.

Now you're overreacting. There is a difference between calling a post a joke and calling a person a joke. And I was referring to the post.

2nd Don't put words in my posts. The person I was posting to took offense to the cult comment, not my opinion on Luck. So, not standing my ground is entirely unfounded.

And finally, so far, Your posts have been inacurrate, misleading, and a waist of my time.

[jemack]

It didn't offend me. I knew it was a play on words. But, as you support in this post, your inference was that some are blind homers, mostly those who aren't agreeing with you.

There are some who might be blind homers for Luck. That doesn't mean the offensive line isn't poor; it is. That doesn't mean receivers aren't getting open on a lot of plays; they aren't. Doesn't mean the coaching hasn't been an issue; some of Arians' play calls are plain awful. I'd say that Luck is the single biggest reason we're 8-4 right now, just like a lot of other teams can credit the quarterback for their record, good or bad.

Matter of fact, specifically regarding those last two points there (in bold above), I didn't think last year's team was as bad as it's record indicated. I think there were a handful of games we lost that we had a chance to win. If not for terrible coaching and terrible quarterback play, we probably don't start 0-13, and we probably don't finish with only two wins. I stated several times over the offseason that, assuming our coaching and quarterbacking was better, than we'd be good enough to win at least five or six games. So, specifically with regard to the play of the quarterback, I think it's obvious that Luck is a huge part of why we've won more games than anyone anticipated we would.

And, whether it's relevant or not, Luck is doing better than Manning as a rookie, in a lot of ways. Maybe not overall, and maybe it doesn't matter, but Manning threw far more interceptions than Luck is on pace for right now, and in far fewer attempts (4.9 interception rate for Manning, compared to Luck's 3.2 interception rate, which is pretty average, if not slightly better than average). Manning's interceptions were spread out over the season (only two games with no interceptions), while Luck's have mostly come in bunches (already three games with no interceptions, and two thirds of his picks have come in one third of his games, on the road). Luck is going to throw for more yards than Manning did (he's 143 yards away), he has a higher yards/attempt than Manning did, he's a more dangerous runner, and if you incorporate his rushing touchdowns, he's on pace to exceed the touchdowns Manning scored as a rookie.

That's without mentioning the eight wins for Luck's team (so far), compared with three wins for Manning's team.

None of that means I think Luck is better than Manning, or is going to be better than Manning. But apples to apples, there are a lot of ways to support the argument that Luck's rookie season is better than Manning's rookie season.

Despite his mistakes and shortcomings, Luck is having a pretty doggone good rookie season. He's on pace for 21 interceptions. That's way too high; we agree there, and I don't think there are very many fans who wouldn't agree, even the blind Luck homers. But I take solace in the fact that most of Luck's turnovers come on the road, and that even the best quarterback I've ever watched play owns the single season record for interceptions thrown. Because the next season, he cut that number in half and got his team into the playoffs.

In short, I think we'll be okay.

So, we agree on your 1st point. On your 2nd, If Luck had been playing last year under Caldwell, with Clyde as Off Coordinator. and was told to run a Manning offenese, I dought they'd win 5 games. My point being the upgrade of coaches and a manageable sytem is a large part of this year's success. And 3rd, I have no problem with someone comparing Luck to Manning's rookie season, unless it's the only point they make to defend him or to measure his future success. And finally, There are some Luck homers who disagree that he's throwing too many ints and actually get personally offended about it. The Cults remark was for those very few. But we've crossed that bridge already.....Great game though

[Truckin Sanders]

Steve young pretty much hinted after the game that RG3 should enjoy this while he is young and can take those hits, because this style play won't be conducive to a long career. He even confronted Griffin in post game interview regarding such.In

the interim, Redskins running base O from pistol / zone read is working for the time being. i wonder who the first D coordinator to devise a d scheme that is effective against it will be. Because,it will happen at some point.

Their formations can and will work in the NFL. They have the personnel to run it and are committed to it. That's like saying when will a dcoordinator have a plan to stop tom Brady. The offense they run is an option offense of sorts. Rg3 has taken some big hits outside the pocket but has also.avoided some big hits inside of the pocket because of his ability to run. Manybad things happen inside the pocket like when Brady got his knee crushed by Bernard pollard.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Their formations can and will work in the NFL. They have the personnel to run it and are committed to it. That's like saying when will a dcoordinator have a plan to stop tom Brady. The offense they run is an option offense of sorts. Rg3 has taken some big hits outside the pocket but has also.avoided some big hits inside of the pocket because of his ability to run. Manybad things happen inside the pocket like when Brady got his knee crushed by Bernard pollard.

With the right personnel, scheme, and execution, any O can be limited. Remember Giants / Patriots x2 ? Once Pats were 18-0, and both 'upsets' were in Super Bowls... biggest stage on earth. If Pats play Washington soon, I'd even bet on BB being the first to take away what they do best and make them go to plan B.

[Truckin Sanders]

With the right personnel, scheme, and execution, any O can be limited. Remember Giants / Patriots x2 ? Once Pats were 18-0, and both 'upsets' were in Super Bowls... biggest stage on earth. If Pats play Washington soon, I'd even bet on BB being the first to take away what they do best and make them go to plan B.

Yes, and that was one game in which they had tine to plan for their attack. Tell me then how teams have slowed down t Brady this year? Tell me how any elite qb has been slowed down? What about Adrian Peterson or calvin johnson are teams not game planning for them? Just because it doesn't seem traditional doesn't mean it can't work. This isn't a gimmick like the wildcat. The 49ers run a lot of similar formations. It works and it wins games

[Steagles]

To be fair, some are not his fault. However, lots of them are just rookie mistakes on decisions that he shouldn't make. As time goes on, those will work themselves out. Remember, Peyton threw lots of interceptions too.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Yes, and that was one game in which they had tine to plan for their attack. Tell me then how teams have slowed down t Brady this year?

I'm not a D coordinator, but maybe the ones from Seattle and Arizona would be happy to address that. And maybe Wade Philips and Vic Fangio are hoping to chime in over the next two weeks.

Tell me how any elite qb has been slowed down? What about Adrian Peterson or calvin johnson are teams not game planning for them? Just because it doesn't seem traditional doesn't mean it can't work. This isn't a gimmick like the wildcat. The 49ers run a lot of similar formations. It works and it wins games

Falcons confused P. Manning into picks and a loss. 49'ers, Seahawks, and NY Giants had a recipe for A. Rodgers, there is always going to be matchups and scheme that favor a team even over elites if D players have enough talent and fit a scheme designed to thwart it. 17 points doesn't win a lot of games, unless you have 49'er like defense. G men style of D doesn't matchup at all, yet held them to 17, but could only score 3 of their own in the second half.

Yes, that style is working for now, but I don't think they want Grif averaging 60+ rushing per game and taking extra risk outside the pocket long term. Everyone thought Cam was gonna win his division this year after his season last year. I believe something similar will happen next year too.

[Truckin Sanders]

I'm not a D coordinator, but maybe the ones from Seattle and Arizona would be happy to address that. And maybe Wade Philips and Vic Fangio are hoping to chime in over the next two weeks.

Falcons confused P. Manning into picks and a loss. 49'ers, Seahawks, and NY Giants had a recipe for A. Rodgers, there is always going to be matchups and scheme that favor a team even over elites if D players have enough talent and fit a scheme designed to thwart it. 17 points doesn't win a lot of games, unless you have 49'er like defense. G men style of D doesn't matchup at all, yet held them to 17, but could only score 3 of their own in the second half.

Yes, that style is working for now, but I don't think they want Grif averaging 60+ rushing per game and taking extra risk outside the pocket long term. Everyone thought Cam was gonna win his division this year after his season last year. I believe something similar will happen next year too.

Aee you honestly that dumb that your best point is peyton threw 3 picks against the falcons after sitting out a year and playing with a new team. Seriously consider what you are posting before you hit the submit button that is just embarrassing. Cause don't look now manning may be the MVP front runner why can't anyone stop him? His escapability allowed him to be sacked ZERO times against that giants d line yesterday. Can was gonna win the division? I wasn't aware they were the Carolina cams because they aren't the rest of the players on his team blow. Cmon man

[southwest1]

You have to realize RG3 is about short routes and limited reads

Luck has one of the most difficult playbooks

He is a rookie.. Peyton had a ton his rookie year.. Relax

Relax guys. It'll get better.

He'll get it right. We're lucky we aren't 2-10 right now. Luck is a great deal the reason why we are winning.

Yeah, it was Luck's worst game of the year.

And then it wasn't.

Happy as a hillbilly in Beverly Hills....and a witch in a broom factory......and I do not have a pop gun arm...never did.....

All QB's throw picks. Even the best such as Unitas and Montana threw them.

I'd even take this to the stage that we are being too critical of his mistakes. We know his O-line is not great. We know it's harder on the road to play QB. His 1st Interception was no different from Manning's yesterday. Even the greatest throw them. His second was a yard short of a TD, and he just did wonderfully well to evade the rush and step up and launch. It may even have been a coaching call to go deep. The 3rd? We are two scores down, going nowhere fast, and he's been getting trampled on all day.

Even when it happened I was still fine with his performance. He led 3 great TD drives and was getting smacked all day.

Too may posters are living in the Madden World. He's a fantastic kid with a great future ahead. All this negativity boils down to unrealistic expectation. And what he did in those last four minutes had me as happy and as proud to support this young team as I have ever felt about any team. Ever.

Bravo Everyone!!! Advocate for patience, take your rookie QB lumps, & Oh yeah, we won the game too. A great point braveheartcolt about a lackluster line that needs to improve too, which explains why Luck scrambles so much IMO i.e. the pocket collapses or breaks down too much. Well said braveheartcolt!

[Jay Kirk]

Bravo Everyone!!! Advocate for patience, take your rookie QB lumps, & Oh yeah, we won the game too. A great point braveheartcolt about a lackluster line that needs to improve too, which explains why Luck scrambles so much IMO i.e. the pocket collapses or breaks down too much. Well said braveheartcolt!

Your right there Brother our pass protection is poor,reason for at least one of those picks,he was being spun to the ground,but what composure to be down on the road after those picks and lead this team to victory!!!!!!!!!!

[ColtsBlueFL]

Edit that your best point is peyton threw 3 picks against the falcons after sitting out a year and playing with a new team. Seriously consider what you are posting before you hit the submit button that is just embarrassing. Cause don't look now manning may be the MVP front runner why can't anyone stop him? His escapability allowed him to be sacked ZERO times against that giants d line yesterday. Can was gonna win the division? I wasn't aware they were the Carolina cams because they aren't the rest of the players on his team blow. Cmon man

What makes you think the Falcons can't do it again, bub? BB has confused Manning many times in playoffs. Romeo Crennell always causes Manning issues. Chargers always knocked Peyton and Colts out of playoffs too. and it wasn't my Best response, there have been plenty. learn to read my full repsonse.. Others will find ways to stump and slow Luck, and Griffin3 as well. As they have with Cam and the Panthers. And Vick, and Vince Young, and so many others already mentioned as well.

Original question- " i wonder who the first D coordinator to devise a d scheme that is effective against it will be. Because,it will happen at some point."

It's all I said, and it WILL happen. You rant on. I'm done discussing this with you.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Coltssouth
personal shot

[Archer]

I'm very impressed with both QBs. Comparing what they've done is apples and oranges, 'cause they've been asked to run VERY different systems. You can't fault RG3 for throwing short balls, it's what comes from the system and he's been accurate when throwing deep too. It's the complex reads that he's not been asked to make...

[southwest1]

Your right there Brother our pass protection is poor,reason for at least one of those picks,he was being spun to the ground,but what composure to be down on the road after those picks and lead this team to victory!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Jay! I ran out of likes brother. Grrr! Here are 5 thumbs up for you too. :thmup: :thmup:

Once again Brother you are as right as rain. I don't want Luck taking this many hits next season though. Grigson fix the line in April & Irsay get out your checkbook please. Thank you. Offensive line protection means Playoffs certainty if you give Andrew enough time to survey the field & throw IMO.

[Qwiz]

Brady and Manning run the option?

No, but they take the same kind of hits that Griffin does in the pocket. In case you haven't noticed, running and athletic quarterbacks are the new thing right now....

[ColtsBlueFL]

No, but they take the same kind of hits that Griffin does in the pocket. In case you haven't noticed, running and athletic quarterbacks are the new thing right now....

Actually been hearing that for years with the likes of R. Cunningham, K. Stewart, S. McNair, D. McNabb, M. Vick, V. Young, Cam, RG3...

I might just rather have a Doug Williams or Warren Moon, to be honest. There were running QB's before these times too, F. Tarkenton, Joe Kapp, Bobby Douglas, Doug Flutie, John Elway, Steve Young, etc.. They either got beat up or learned pocket passing. Or both. History is what it is.

[jvan1973]

No, but they take the same kind of hits that Griffin does in the pocket. In case you haven't noticed, running and athletic quarterbacks are the new thing right now....

Peyton has protected himself from big hits his whole career.. Bob has taken more big shots this season than Peyton has in his career

[Qwiz]

Actually been hearing that for years with the likes of R. Cunningham, K. Stewart, S. McNair, D. McNabb, M. Vick, V. Young, Cam, RG3...

I might just rather have a Doug Williams or Warren Moon, to be honest. There were running QB's before these times too, F. Tarkenton, Joe Kapp, Bobby Douglas, Doug Flutie, John Elway, Steve Young, etc.. They either got beat up or learned pocket passing. Or both. History is what it is.

Griffin is different than all of those others. The majority of NFL players and experts who know football are saying that they have never seen anything like it, (similar to the words used to describe Rodgers' play during his SB year and after) and that Griffin is changing the way the game is being played. I would think that that critically acclaimed Giants defense thinks so too. I know history is history but I don't see Griffin fizzling out anytime soon. He is once in a generation just as 12 is. These guys are going to be fun to watch. (Unless they play the Texans, of course.) ;)

[Qwiz]

Peyton has protected himself from big hits his whole career.. Bob has taken more big shots this season than Peyton has in his career

While I doubt that, considering that Manning has played a very, very long time, I would attribute it to a combination of Griffin's mobility and the fact that, as a rookie, he will make mistakes and squeeze the ball in the pocket. Just give him an offseason or two and we will really start to see the potential. He is just a raw talent right now, and he already has the NFL on fire.

[jvan1973]

Griffin is different than all of those others. The majority of NFL players and experts who know football are saying that they have never seen anything like it, (similar to the words used to describe Rodgers' play during his SB year and after) and that Griffin is changing the way the game is being played. I would think that that critically acclaimed Giants defense thinks so too. I know history is history but I don't see Griffin fizzling out anytime soon. He is once in a generation just as 12 is. These guys are going to be fun to watch. (Unless they play the Texans, of course.) ;)

They say these things every year about various players.. Its called conjecture.. heard how amazing jamarcus russel was too. He could throw fifty yards from his knees.. Heard it last year with cam newton.. How is his team doing this year?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Griffin is different than all of those others. The majority of NFL players and experts who know football are saying that they have never seen anything like it, (similar to the words used to describe Rodgers' play during his SB year and after) and that Griffin is changing the way the game is being played. I would think that that critically acclaimed Giants defense thinks so too. I know history is history but I don't see Griffin fizzling out anytime soon. He is once in a generation just as 12 is. These guys are going to be fun to watch. (Unless they play the Texans, of course.) ;)

Time will tell if Griffin is substantially different than all of those others (some of which were quite great at times themselves, with MVP awards or a Super Bowl appearance, etc.). They all changed the way D got played, at least for a time, but not necessarily revolutionized the game. The last decade of SB QB's is littered with multiple appearances of Brady, E. Manning, B Roethlisberger, P. Manning, and dotted with A. Rodgers, and D. Brees and even T. Dilfer. No revolution aftereffects seen yet.

Griffin will have to carry his team to Super Bowls and win one or two using his current style to revolutionize the game, otherwise he is more like S. McNair / D. McNabb; IMHO. Or he had changed to become more like J. Elway / S. Young.

[GoColts8818]

Griffin is different than all of those others. The majority of NFL players and experts who know football are saying that they have never seen anything like it, (similar to the words used to describe Rodgers' play during his SB year and after) and that Griffin is changing the way the game is being played. I would think that that critically acclaimed Giants defense thinks so too. I know history is history but I don't see Griffin fizzling out anytime soon. He is once in a generation just as 12 is. These guys are going to be fun to watch. (Unless they play the Texans, of course.) ;)

The changing the way the game is played thing is so over used (and not just with RG3). Honestly there have been mobile QBs in the NFL all the way back to the days of Cunningham. There have been Hall of Famers like Steve Young that can run. Yet QBs like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady who can't run came along after them and did just fine. So the way the game was played hasn't been changed simply because there aren't going to be other teams trying to do what the Redskins try to do with RG3 because they don't have RG3.

I will say this the one thing that all mobile QBs have in common is that their speed goes away at some point and you see them run less and less and that generally becomes the deciding point on if a "running" QB is going to last in the NFL. Guys like Cunningham, Young, Elway, McNair and Rodgers were able to make the adjustment and beat you in the pocket as well as throwing. Guys like Vick and Culpepper have struggled more with that. Rather RG3 will or wont struggle with it is yet to be determined but it will probably be the deciding factor on how good he will be. Some DC is going to figure out how to defend what the Redskins are doing with RG3 at some point. It happens to EVERY player in the league. It will be interesting to see how RG3 responds to that once they do.

For the record you can say just about all of that about Luck as well. That's why I like that Luck is always looking downfield and always looking to pass first to the point you wish he would run a little more. I think Luck is of the mold of Elway a QB who can run when he needs to but is always going to look to throw the ball first.

[vinsanity]

Ok Griffin advocaters throwing all the stats out there. Let's talk stats...

On accuracy and QB rating:

"Luck plays in a vertical offense while Griffin plays in a horizontal one. Luck's average pass attempt has traveled 10.2 yards past the line of scrimmage, the longest average pass distance in the league. Griffin has thrown only 14 percent of his passes 15-plus yards past the line of scrimmage, the lowest rate in the league. Luck has thrown only 11 percent of his passes at or behind the line of scrimmage, while Griffin is in an offense that has let him throw 44 passes at or behind the line, accounting for 23 percent of his attempts."

Rushing:

Griffin has five fumbles on rushing plays this season and has only recovered one. Luck has yet to fumble on a running play this year. Despite only 18 true rushes, Luck has 10 first-down runs on scrambles, most in the league (Griffin and Vick each have nine). Seven of those 10 have come on third down; no other quarterback more than 4 scrambles for 1st downs on 3rd down this year. Over all, 12 of his 18 runs have gone for first downs, while Griffin has gained first downs on only 41 percent of his 61 runs

[John Dee]

The changing the way the game is played thing is so over used (and not just with RG3). Honestly there have been mobile QBs in the NFL all the way back to the days of Cunningham. There have been Hall of Famers like Steve Young that can run. Yet QBs like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady who can't run came along after them and did just fine. So the way the game was played hasn't been changed simply because there aren't going to be other teams trying to do what the Redskins try to do with RG3 because they don't have RG3.

I will say this the one thing that all mobile QBs have in common is that their speed goes away at some point and you see them run less and less and that generally becomes the deciding point on if a "running" QB is going to last in the NFL. Guys like Cunningham, Young, Elway, McNair and Rodgers were able to make the adjustment and beat you in the pocket as well as throwing. Guys like Vick and Culpepper have struggled more with that. Rather RG3 will or wont struggle with it is yet to be determined but it will probably be the deciding factor on how good he will be. Some DC is going to figure out how to defend what the Redskins are doing with RG3 at some point. It happens to EVERY player in the league. It will be interesting to see how RG3 responds to that once they do.

For the record you can say just about all of that about Luck as well. That's why I like that Luck is always looking downfield and always looking to pass first to the point you wish he would run a little more. I think Luck is of the mold of Elway a QB who can run when he needs to but is always going to look to throw the ball first.

Very nice...

Jaworski was on Mike and Mike the other morning and they were discussing the rookie QB's.....

He stated that "great QB play starts from the pocket" The Skins are running option football. It simply does not hold up to the test of time. "a QB has got to be able to throw from the pocket" ... R Jaworski.

Jaws mentioned that Wilson may be farther along than RG3.. and I totally agree.

Wilson has played great ball since mid Oct. And nobody talks about him.

Luck, Griffin, and Wilson.... not to mention Tannyhill and Weeden...

What a group of young guys.

[John Dee]

Ok Griffin advocaters throwing all the stats out there. Let's talk stats...

On accuracy and QB rating:

"Luck plays in a vertical offense while Griffin plays in a horizontal one. Luck's average pass attempt has traveled 10.2 yards past the line of scrimmage, the longest average pass distance in the league. Griffin has thrown only 14 percent of his passes 15-plus yards past the line of scrimmage, the lowest rate in the league. Luck has thrown only 11 percent of his passes at or behind the line of scrimmage, while Griffin is in an offense that has let him throw 44 passes at or behind the line, accounting for 23 percent of his attempts."

Rushing:

Griffin has five fumbles on rushing plays this season and has only recovered one. Luck has yet to fumble on a running play this year. Despite only 18 true rushes, Luck has 10 first-down runs on scrambles, most in the league (Griffin and Vick each have nine). Seven of those 10 have come on third down; no other quarterback more than 4 scrambles for 1st downs on 3rd down this year. Over all, 12 of his 18 runs have gone for first downs, while Griffin has gained first downs on only 41 percent of his 61 runs

Some good stuff totally reinforcing what I said in an earlier post. To appreciate what Luck is getting done one has to watch the "entire game" .. just just look at stats and sports center highlights. Luck is a winner, he is clutch.... Indy is second in the NFL in O 3rd down %. Skins LAST. This is a very telling stat.

Go Colts ..

[NewEra]

this was the same talk last year about Cam Newton. and was the same talk about vick. its all media driven crap. people seem to forget how fast vick was and how strong his arm was. big differense is supposedly griffin actually has a brain in his head. so kuddos, only time will tell.

[Balzer40]

I love it when somebody says "well, so and so said RG3 is gonna change the way the game is played". LOL, they say that crap all the time about some freakishly athletic QB. It works for awhile then defenses figure it out and those QB's disappear into obscurity.