I give up making excuses for Luck's INTS

[rdskns4eva]

If Luck doesnt throw into double & tripple coverage, he doesnt make that completion to Reggie on the game winning drive...

If Luck doesnt throw a good deep ball how does he make the touchdown pass to Brazil,to leave just enough clock to give the team a chance at a game winning drive...

Luck led this team to another win...The kid has leadership ooozing out of his pours, and if you cant see that there is nothing I can do for you...

I dont think any Redskins fan has questioned Lucks leadership.

I would hope Colts fan didnt questioned RG3's leadership (The dude was elected as a team captain for crying out loud).

Both RG3 and Luck are capable leaders.

[John Dee]

Y'know, Luck's season has been just like Peyton's rookie season. They send him out there and say, "Go forth and throweth down field, and learneth what must be learned." He's made some awful mistakes and he's learning from those mistakes. Contrast that to RGIII, who seldomly throws down field. The Redskins go into tonight's game 4 of 44 on third downs of 8 or more yards. When asked to throw downfield against defenses geared to stop the pass, RGIII simply hasn't converted. Luck has converted a lot, but made a lot of mistakes along the way. Which approach is better? RGIII's has been better for his stat line, but the Colts are 8-4 and Luck has learned a lot of "what not to do". In the long run, I think that Luck is getting more valuable experience and is building confidence. RGIII can have his ORotY award - I'm guessing Luck will be practically indefensible by mid-next season.

Great point about the 3rd down conversions. Here is the OFFICIAL ESPN.com stats...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/thirdDownConvs

The Redskins have the 3rd ranked running game in the NFL... and are the WORST in the NFL at 3rd down efficiency.

Indy ... 2nd behind New England.

Oh and Indy's running game is ranked 17th....

Did anyone mention the word "clutch" .... hehe..

[rdskns4eva]

this is hilarious. Luck has subpar OL and terrible RBs and gets sacked so much.

the team is 8-5 riding on rookies arms. lets compare him to RG3 and Jets QBs bc that totally makes sense.

I'll take Redskins OL & Morris any day.

The Skins Offensive line isnt very good from a pass protection standpoint.

Trent WIlliams is a potential pro bowler and WIll Mongomery is one of the better centers in the NFL this year. Outside of that, it isnt like we have the 1991 Hogs protecting Griff. Right tackle sucks, our left guard, Lichenstiger (sp) has way too many false starts and he struggles in pass pro as well. The Oline is playing very well on running plays. Morris is a beast, yes.

By the way, Andrew Luck has been sacked 28 times on 503 pass attempts. That comes out to a sack every 18 drop backs. RG3 has been sacked 25 times on 304 drop backs. That comes out to a sack every 12 drop backs. Who has the better pass blocking Oline?

[YOUR GM]

However, when someone says "Griffin is better than Luck because he has a higher completion percentage," it's worth mentioning that Griffin completes a lot of short throws, and Luck's attempts are more down the field. Like you said, in a similar offense, Luck's completion percentage would probably be considerably higher. And like you said, Arians deserves a lot of blame for not giving his quarterback -- rookie or not -- easier passes to attempt.

And in all of that, I believe Luck is the most effective in the league in pass attempts 15(?) yards down the field. So the completion percentage argument is kind of hard to sink your teeth into. Knowhatimean?

I have no stake in this race. I actually agree with you. I just think the people citing the amount of short passes RG3 throws as the only reason for his success are just as unfounded as the people using his completion percentage to prove he's better than Luck.

Luck is asked to throw more difficult passes than most QB's and Arians is breading him into bad habits early. I think he'll improve on the turnovers with experience, but this offense will always be inconsistent and have an element of high risk/high reward as long as the current scheme stays in place.

[dw49]

The Skins Offensive line isnt very good from a pass protection standpoint.

Trent WIlliams is a potential pro bowler and WIll Mongomery is one of the better centers in the NFL this year. Outside of that, it isnt like we have the 1991 Hogs protecting Griff. Right tackle sucks, our left guard, Lichenstiger (sp) has way too many false starts and he struggles in pass pro as well. The Oline is playing very well on running plays. Morris is a beast, yes.

By the way, Andrew Luck has been sacked 28 times on 503 pass attempts. That comes out to a sack every 18 drop backs. RG3 has been sacked 25 times on 304 drop backs. That comes out to a sack every 12 drop backs. Who has the better pass blocking Oline?

Sorry but that's not how you totally measure an offensive line. If you put Manning behind the O line that sacked Carr 75 times , how many times would you guess Manning would have been sacked ? I'd say about 20. Luck takes a few more shots than RG , hense more ints , more incompletions and a fewer amount of sacks. The only way to determine which line is better is to sit down and watch each perform. I would say the Redskin line is the stouter of the two. BTW.... saying which QB is better is like saying vanilla is a better flavor than chocolate.

[YOUR GM]

The Skins Offensive line isnt very good from a pass protection standpoint.

Trent WIlliams is a potential pro bowler and WIll Mongomery is one of the better centers in the NFL this year. Outside of that, it isnt like we have the 1991 Hogs protecting Griff. Right tackle sucks, our left guard, Lichenstiger (sp) has way too many false starts and he struggles in pass pro as well. The Oline is playing very well on running plays. Morris is a beast, yes.

By the way, Andrew Luck has been sacked 28 times on 503 pass attempts. That comes out to a sack every 18 drop backs. RG3 has been sacked 25 times on 304 drop backs. That comes out to a sack every 12 drop backs. Who has the better pass blocking Oline?

Those 28 sacks could easily be 48 right now, considering how many would be rushers Luck has evaded all season long. It's not even close, in terms of talent between the Colts and Skins O-lines. At least you guys can run consistently. We aren't proficient at pass or run blocking. I doubt anyone on the line outside of Costanzo (and maybe Justice) will be starting for us next season.

[Buck Showalter]

I dont think any Redskins fan has questioned Lucks leadership.

I would hope Colts fan didnt questioned RG3's leadership (The dude was elected as a team captain for crying out loud).

Both RG3 and Luck are capable leaders.

this thread got going quickly, my response was to all the early responses about Lucks interceptions, etc & not in any reference to RG3 comparisons..

RG3 seems like a stand up guy and a good leader for Washington, outside of the Thanksgiving game, I havent watched an entire Redskins Game, but on that game and RG3's highlight reels it looks like the Redskins definitely got their guy, its about time for the franchise as Washington fans are due for some success and as far as NFC goes, I'd like nothing more than to see Washington & RG3 whoop up on Dallas & Philly for the next decade...

With all that said, I like our guy, but would not at all be opposed to a real life Luck/RG3 rivalry playing out in terms of them facing off in Superbowl appearances!!!

[Gavin]

The Skins Offensive line isnt very good from a pass protection standpoint.

Trent WIlliams is a potential pro bowler and WIll Mongomery is one of the better centers in the NFL this year. Outside of that, it isnt like we have the 1991 Hogs protecting Griff. Right tackle sucks, our left guard, Lichenstiger (sp) has way too many false starts and he struggles in pass pro as well. The Oline is playing very well on running plays. Morris is a beast, yes.

By the way, Andrew Luck has been sacked 28 times on 503 pass attempts. That comes out to a sack every 18 drop backs. RG3 has been sacked 25 times on 304 drop backs. That comes out to a sack every 12 drop backs. Who has the better pass blocking Oline?

The redskins clearly do have a better O Line, your not taking into account QB Hits AND sacks plus number of pass of which Luck has 199 more in only 1 more game played by the Colts....1! But lets go back to sacks plus QB hits. The Colts O Line has given up 28 sacks this year compared to 26 for the Skins but thats not enough in my opinion to say beyond a doubt that you guys have a better O Line so with that said lets look at QB hits, Redskins 62, Colts 88, combined hits on the QB (Sacks and actual QB hits included) 116 hits given up by the Colts O Line as I said hits and sacks included, Compare that to 88 hits given up by the Redskins 26 of them sacks, at times our starting center Satele may as well not have been on the field he has been blown through or past so much by Nose Tackles and Defensive Tackles, We have a LT that at this point I dont think is our Franchise LT and no Guards on the active roster except Linkenbach (I think we have a couple O Linemen playing out of position)

[rdskns4eva]

Those 28 sacks could easily be 48 right now, considering how many would be rushers Luck has evaded all season long. It's not even close, in terms of talent between the Colts and Skins O-lines. At least you guys can run consistently. We aren't proficient at pass or run blocking. I doubt anyone on the line outside of Costanzo (and maybe Justice) will be starting for us next season.

Im not debating the run blocking of the two. The Redskins clearly outperform the Colts here. The Redskins are one of the best run blocking teams in the enitire NFL.

But we struggle with pass protection. For someone who has 200 less passing attempts than Luck, he should not have nearly have the same amount of Sacks.

[GrizzColt]

I think it's all a moot point. The redskins were pretty bad before they beat Philly and Dallas. Anybody see those 2 crummy teams play this year? If Eli and NASCAR come to play tonight, griffin will be forced to run or throw interceptions.

[ColtsBlueFL]

To say that he makes mistakes a rookie shouldn't make is a strong statement. Not sure how accurate but no doubt you have watcehd a lot of rookie QB's and came to a different conclusion that others might have

He is learning, but he has made the same mistake in the same fashion more than once. I think he may be referring to those.

I understand he'll make mistakes. New ones hopefully, until he has seen it all. I just don't like to see repeat mistakes. fortunately, I don't think those are very frequent. So I'm good. Let Luck go! It just hastens his progress for his long career.

[John Dee]

I have no stake in this race. I actually agree with you. I just think the people citing the amount of short passes RG3 throws as the only reason for his success are just as unfounded as the people using his completion percentage to prove he's better than Luck.

Luck is asked to throw more difficult passes than most QB's and Arians is breading him into bad habits early. I think he'll improve on the turnovers with experience, but this offense will always be inconsistent and have an element of high risk/high reward as long as the current scheme stays in place.

It boils down to how does each team use each player? Luck has thrown 200 more passes this season going into tonights game.

RG3 throws off of play action around 45% of the time. RG3 has the 3rd ranked running game in the NFL. And yet Washington is LAST in the NFL in 3rd down completion %

Andrew L is just being asked to make it happen. And he has, Indy 2nd in the NFL in 3rd down completion %

Truly it is comparing apples to oranges because both players are not on an equal field (for evaluation purposes)

But 8-4 is pretty good aye?

[Indyfan4life]

It boils down to how does each team use each player? Luck has thrown 200 more passes this season going into tonights game.

RG3 throws off of play action around 45% of the time. RG3 has the 3rd ranked running game in the NFL. And yet Washington is LAST in the NFL in 3rd down completion %

Andrew L is just being asked to make it happen. And he has, Indy 2nd in the NFL in 3rd down completion %

Truly it is comparing apples to oranges because both players are not on an equal field (for evaluation purposes)

But 8-4 is pretty good aye?

I'd prefer 9-3.

[jemack]

The 1st Amendment actually means nothing on a privately owned and operated forum.

The reply was to a forum member not to the forum itself

Anyone making a big deal about his interceptions needs to gtho. He is still going to crush rookie records and get us into the playoffs but yes let's hate on the best thng to happen to us since peyton manning

You're being way to sensitive If saying he needs to protect the ball better is hating

Why shutup when your troll posts have made my evening, good sir. Trololol.

If I were trolling I'd thow your post back into the ocean

So how is fans venting frustration about the Colts QB on this site.....different from fans venting frustration over shocking disbelief of that venting?

Shocking disbelief from posts made about Luck needing to protect ball the better? Now that's overreacting

[John Dee]

Jemack "if" you witnessed Peyton Manning's rookie season... then you would consider it over reacting...

Because it just gets better.

Over and out....

[rdskns4eva]

The redskins clearly do have a better O Line, your not taking into account QB Hits AND sacks plus number of pass of which Luck has 199 more in only 1 more game played by the Colts....1! But lets go back to sacks plus QB hits. The Colts O Line has given up 28 sacks this year compared to 26 for the Skins but thats not enough in my opinion to say beyond a doubt that you guys have a better O Line so with that said lets look at QB hits, Redskins 62, Colts 88, combined hits on the QB (Sacks and actual QB hits included) 116 hits given up by the Colts O Line as I said hits and sacks included, Compare that to 88 hits given up by the Redskins 26 of them sacks, at times our starting center Satele may as well not have been on the field he has been blown through or past so much by Nose Tackles and Defensive Tackles, We have a LT that at this point I dont think is our Franchise LT and no Guards on the active roster except Linkenbach (I think we have a couple O Linemen playing out of position)

Based on your numbers, Luck is being hit or sacked on 23% of his drop backs (503 drop backs)

RG3 is being hit or sacked on 29% of his drop backs. (304 drop backs)

I agree that in ranking offensive lines, some sort of subjectivity is needed. But you also need to look at the numbers as well. Based on your info, Rg3 is hit or sacked on drop backs more than Luck, based on %.

[John Dee]

I'd prefer 9-3.

Well really Indy should be.. but not AL's fault.. Indy D letting Cecil Shorts go 80+ yards on our D killed that one.

Other 3 loses the team got spanked. Well actually the Jets spanked Indy. Chi and NE Indy was there .... Next season Luck won't be a green rookie.

[jemack]

I think calling someone a homer is much more tame than calling this "a CULTS forum."

What's difference between saying some were acting like it's a Cults forum and sending a cookie with a sheep drinking Kool-aid which is a direct reference to the Jim Jones religious cult, in which the followers (sheep) drank the cynide laces Kool-aid?

[John Dee]

Based on your numbers, Luck is being hit or sacked on 23% of his drop backs (503 drop backs)

RG3 is being hit or sacked on 29% of his drop backs. (304 drop backs)

I agree that in ranking offensive lines, some sort of subjectivity is needed. But you also need to look at the numbers as well. Based on your info, Rg3 is hit or sacked on drop backs more than Luck, based on %.

ranking OL's... Does RG3 regularly throw 30 yard posts with a couple defenders all over him?

Luck should have been sacked 50x this season at least. But, his pocket awareness is unmatched. ... (jaws now me)

knows when to run and when to throw. If one watched every snap this season a little more insight would develop into the Luck INT debate.

Dude is simply under duress a ton.

Unless you have watched him do it you simply will not be able to understand.

[John Dee]

What's difference between saying some were acting like it's a Cults forum and sending a cookie with a sheep drinking Kool-aid which is a direct reference to the Jim Jones religious cult, in which the followers (sheep) drank the cynide laces Kool-aid?

Oh Lord.....

[jemack]

Oh Lord.....

thanks for proving my point

[rdskns4eva]

ranking OL's... Does RG3 regularly throw 30 yard posts with a couple defenders all over him?

Luck should have been sacked 50x this season at least. But, his pocket awareness is unmatched. ... (jaws now me)

knows when to run and when to throw. If one watched every snap this season a little more insight would develop into the Luck INT debate.

Dude is simply under duress a ton.

Unless you have watched him do it you simply will not be able to understand.

We are ranking Olines, not what a player does with that Oline.

We know what both players can do when the Oline breaks down, we've seen the both do it.

When Lucks offensive line breaks down, he can have 2 guys grabbing at his neck and still throw a pass 30 yards downfield. We have video evidence of him doing this.

When RG3 offensive line breaks down, he can outrun an entire defense for 76 yard touchdowns. We have video evidence of him doing this.

But this debate isnt about that. It's about who's offensive line does a better job of protecting their quarterback. Fro ma subjective standpoint, I'm willing to concede that Robert has better protection, but the numbers themself that Gavin provided dont tell that story.

[dudeman]

The reply was to a forum member not to the forum itself

The First Amendment only applies to Congress not individuals or forum members .

[jemack]

lol It's beginning to feel that way

[dudeman]

lol It's beginning to feel that way

That's how it's always been.

You know the whole exact quote of the 1st Amendment is: ""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.".There's only been a rule prevent Congress, and it has only applied to Congress, Welcome to High School Government .

[Superman]

What's difference between saying some were acting like it's a Cults forum and sending a cookie with a sheep drinking Kool-aid which is a direct reference to the Jim Jones religious cult, in which the followers (sheep) drank the cynide laces Kool-aid?

1) I don't know what you're talking about.

2) I didn't say there was any difference.

3) I can't stand people using the "drinking the kool aid" reference, for the same reason.

4) My original point is that you suggested that people who are critical of you for being critical of Luck are blind homers. Your comment about this being a CULTS forum is what I was referring to.

5) I know you didn't use the words "blind homers," but, like I said, calling anyone who doesn't agree with you cult members is worse, if you ask me.

Back on topic, most people who disagree with you simply think you're overreacting. It's not that anyone thinks Luck isn't throwing too many interceptions. It's because we recognize that he's going to make mistakes. No matter how polished he is, no matter what the expectations are, he is still a rookie. He just played his 12th game. It's not the end of the world that our rookie quarterback is throwing too many interceptions (I won't even mention that 11 of them have come in four road games). (Oops, I mentioned it.)

Practically every quarterback, especially the good ones, threw a bunch of interceptions as a rookie. It goes with the territory. In fact, the guy a lot of people think is THE BEST quarterback of this generation, perhaps of all time, has the record for interceptions thrown in a season, as a rookie. This is normal. It's nothing to get worked up over.

[Carlos Danger]

Yes thankfully! But then Interceptions are Interceptions too now aren't they.

Some wins are different than others... the same applies to interceptions...

Today B.A. said in his presser that the young wide receivers and tight ends had their worst game, mistake-wise, in a month... he specifically pointed out two interceptions that were a result of mental mistakes on the part of the receiver and not Luck's fault... it is sometimes impossible for us to tell on t.v. whether the throw was bad or whether there was a miscommunication of some sort... we have a very young receiving core as well as a rookie QB and as Superman said, most of them have come in bunches on the road where communication is more difficult for all of the young guys... we should consider ourselves fortunate that he has more TD passes than picks and remind ourselves of how many TDs and critical first downs he has created with his legs as well... all that being said, he has thrown some ugly passes this year, but I'm not concerned, and nobody else ought be either, I mean, he is probably going to obliterate the rookie passing yards record after all.....

[NewEra]

Colts forum- where you go to talk rg3.

Ugh, funny thing is beginning of the season it was all about rg3 was going to be in such a better situation cause his team was over all better. 12 games later its a whole bunch of excuses. Oh yeah, wasn't/isn't there run game so much better? Hence their pass game would/should benefit from that. Get back with me when you run a pro style offense.

[jemack]

1) I don't know what you're talking about.

2) I didn't say there was any difference.

3) I can't stand people using the "drinking the kool aid" reference, for the same reason.

4) My original point is that you suggested that people who are critical of you for being critical of Luck are blind homers. Your comment about this being a CULTS forum is what I was referring to.

5) I know you didn't use the words "blind homers," but, like I said, calling anyone who doesn't agree with you cult members is worse, if you ask me.

Back on topic, most people who disagree with you simply think you're overreacting. It's not that anyone thinks Luck isn't throwing too many interceptions. It's because we recognize that he's going to make mistakes. No matter how polished he is, no matter what the expectations are, he is still a rookie. He just played his 12th game. It's not the end of the world that our rookie quarterback is throwing too many interceptions (I won't even mention that 11 of them have come in four road games). (Oops, I mentioned it.)

Practically every quarterback, especially the good ones, threw a bunch of interceptions as a rookie. It goes with the territory. In fact, the guy a lot of people think is THE BEST quarterback of this generation, perhaps of all time, has the record for interceptions thrown in a season, as a rookie. This is normal. It's nothing to get worked up over.

There are some on this forum that are blind homers for Luck. They either blame the oline, wrs not getting separation, even the coaching. Some say he's the only reason the Colts are 8-4. Some even rationalize that he's doing better than Manning in his rookie season, as if that's relevent. So I stand by my post. It was mostly a play on words. If it offended you..... sorry

[NewEra]

There are some on this forum that are blind homers for Luck. They either blame the oline, wrs not getting separation, even the coaching. Some say he's the only reason the Colts are 8-4. Some even rationalize that he's doing better than Manning in his rookie season, as if that's relevent. So I stand by my post. It was mostly a play on words. If it offended you..... sorry

.

Maybe you really just love to tick into a strong gust of wind. Have at it bud!

[YOUR GM]

Im not debating the run blocking of the two. The Redskins clearly outperform the Colts here. The Redskins are one of the best run blocking teams in the enitire NFL.

But we struggle with pass protection. For someone who has 200 less passing attempts than Luck, he should not have nearly have the same amount of Sacks.

It's not as black and white as sack totals. Like I said, Luck has escaped plenty of sacks this season but has taken more hits than Griffin. Our pass protection is bottom 5 bad, IMO.

[jemack]

Jemack "if" you witnessed Peyton Manning's rookie season... then you would consider it over reacting...

Because it just gets better.

Over and out....

I've been a Colts fan since '74 and have the scars on my heart to prove it. It may have been in game overreaction and there were many on this thread in my position. But I was one the very few that were ridiculed after the game for my comments.. So, yeah, it's going to get heated We were just venting to each other (It does make you feel better during a game). It was a great win. The criticism was in the moment. Nothing more, nothing less

Peace

[jemack]

.

Maybe you really just love to tick into a strong gust of wind. Have at it bud!

Now, that took thought

[Tsarquise]

There are some on this forum that are blind homers for Luck. They either blame the oline, wrs not getting separation, even the coaching. Some say he's the only reason the Colts are 8-4. Some even rationalize that he's doing better than Manning in his rookie season, as if that's relevent. So I stand by my post. It was mostly a play on words. If it offended you..... sorry

Agree

[LoudandProud]

Joe Montana threw a ton of picks. The greats are fearless and fire it.

[NewEra]

Now, that took thought

Lol, p I s s

[dudeman]

I've been a Colts fan since '74 and have the scars on my heart to prove it. It may have been in game overreaction and there were many on this thread in my position. But I was one the very few that were ridiculed after the game for my comments.. So, yeah, it's going to get heated We were just venting to each other (It does make you feel better during a game). It was a great win. The criticism was in the moment. Nothing more, nothing less

Peace

There's a reason why you were. You consistently and irreverently increased the tone and brevity of your attacks towards insults, and yet you cower when other posters return fire? YOU caused the 'heat' in your posting style, and you knew that. You knew that you wanted to rile feathers and insult other posters, and now you're bowing out when faced with that reality. Your position of being 'ridiculed' rests squarely on your shoulders.

If you can't accept being 'ridiculed' for posting a snarky opinion, perhaps you should stick to polite ones? The Internet shows no mercy.

[House]

I've been a Colts fan since '74 and have the scars on my heart to prove it. It may have been in game overreaction and there were many on this thread in my position. But I was one the very few that were ridiculed after the game for my comments.. So, yeah, it's going to get heated We were just venting to each other (It does make you feel better during a game). It was a great win. The criticism was in the moment. Nothing more, nothing less

Peace

I'm sure those you see as unwilling to deal fault to Luck, would say you are being overly critical. It's all a matter of perspective.

I think we all need to get on the same page and realize that, yes Andrew makes mistakes and needs to correct those kinds of decisions. But he also is a green horn rookie, and these things will happen, and it won't be the end of the world.

Did I mention we won the game yesterday?

[jemack]

There's a reason why you were. You consistently and irreverently increased the tone and brevity of your attacks towards insults, and yet you cower when other posters return fire? YOU caused the 'heat' in your posting style, and you knew that. You knew that you wanted to rile feathers and insult other posters, and now you're bowing out when faced with that reality. Your position of being 'ridiculed' rests squarely on your shoulders.

If you can't accept being 'ridiculed' for posting a snarky opinion, perhaps you should stick to polite ones? The Internet shows no mercy.

I defended my opinion and didn't let insults from others slide. I don't get the cower comment so you'll have to copy and paste to explain that one. And what reallity do you mean? The reality that I stood my ground on what believe to be true. It looks like you're the one trying to ruffle some feathers lol

[jemack]

I'm sure those you see as unwilling to deal fault to Luck, would say you are being overly critical. It's all a matter of perspective.

I think we all need to get on the same page and realize that, yes Andrew makes mistakes and needs to correct those kinds of decisions. But he also is a green horn rookie, and these things will happen, and it won't be the end of the world.

Did I mention we won the game yesterday?

So true