I give up making excuses for Luck's INTS

[Playmaker]

Dude he is a rookie and has this team playing way better than last year. If you think we would be 8-4 with any of those guys you mentioned your crazy.

[Warhorse]

What I don't get are some fans who are offended, litterally offended when someone posts criticism about Luck in order to release some frustration. Sure some of it is over the top. But come on

So how is fans venting frustration about the Colts QB on this site.....different from fans venting frustration over shocking disbelief of that venting?

[Superman]

I never accused anyone being a homer or anything else. My replies After the game were to Defend my position. Had fellow fans not replied to my posts it would have been a pretty peaceful evening. If you read their comments, you maybe could understand that I couldn't stand by and not respond. That's not ny style. If you disagree with me then OK. I agree with most of what you wrote.

Good might

I think calling someone a homer is much more tame than calling this "a CULTS forum."

[stat2883]

RG3 lovers don't want to hear anything about facts, they only care that he has a high completion percentage on his whopping 67% of passes under 10 yds..

snippet from an ESPN Insider article:

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

just to put it in perspective...

[braveheartcolt]

I'd even take this to the stage that we are being too critical of his mistakes. We know his O-line is not great. We know it's harder on the road to play QB. His 1st Interception was no different from Manning's yesterday. Even the greatest throw them. His second was a yard short of a TD, and he just did wonderfully well to evade the rush and step up and launch. It may even have been a coaching call to go deep. The 3rd? We are two scores down, going nowhere fast, and he's been getting trampled on all day.

Even when it happened I was still fine with his performance. He led 3 great TD drives and was getting smacked all day.

Too may posters are living in the Madden World. He's a fantastic kid with a great future ahead. All this negativity boils down to unrealistic expectation. And what he did in those last four minutes had me as happy and as proud to support this young team as I have ever felt about any team. Ever.

[Qwiz]

snippet from an ESPN Insider article:

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

just to put it in perspective...

Ah yes...facts.

[stat2883]

Ah yes...facts.

heh....yeah. Of course I didn't realize this thread was already 7 pages long and that discussion had died out - I would have just left it alone. Like whoever you want I say, but be objective with the evidence is all I ask.

[stat2883]

Too may posters are living in the Madden World.

heh...I can't count how many times I've uttered this thought in regards to all sorts of topics.

[SIXTHOBJECT]

Do you have any idea of the pressure that is on this kid? Take over for Manning, take over a 2 win team, #1 pick in the NFL draft... oh.... and bye the way has to learn a COMPLETELY NEW O!

And then be asked to CARRY the team.

He is being asked to do as much as Aaron Rodgers is for the Pack. I mean really. He is playing phenomenal football.

Just wait until this team has talent... hehe...

Dang I would give anything to hear what some of you all had to say about Manning his rookie year?

Agreed,

Give Luck a OL were he isnt running for his life and then everybody will see what he is. I am tired of everybody wanting him to play perfect and comparing him to RG stinking 3 come on, I think they are both going to be great but look at the talent levels of each team. I love the heart this team has.

[YOUR GM]

snippet from an ESPN Insider article:

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

just to put it in perspective...

Good post.

The knock on Griffin throwing shorter passes is a bit overstated around here. I think Luck's numbers would be similar, if he were in a more diverse offense. What he's asked to do here just invites turnovers and low completion percentages, especially for a rookie. Arians should be the one indicted for his play-calling and handling of Luck; not Griffin. He's only executing the offense he's been asked to run.

[Balzer40]

snippet from an ESPN Insider article:

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

just to put it in perspective...

Good post.

The knock on Griffin throwing shorter passes is a bit overstated around here. I think Luck's numbers would be similar, if he were in a more diverse offense. What he's asked to do here just invites turnovers and low completion percentages, especially for a rookie. Arians should be the one indicted for his play-calling and handling of Luck; not Griffin. He's only executing the offense he's been asked to run.

All of that is really besides the point. My only reason for posting that was because of the RG3 lovers that come to a Colts forum to brag about his awesome completion percentage. Another Skins fan posted stats in different thread comparing Luck and Griffin and was trying to say that RG3 throws just as many deep passes as Luck and when I pointed out the actual stats he(himself) posted actually told a completely different story, well then he disappeared and hasn't been back since. I honestly do not care at all what RG3 has done this season, but when his fanboys come to this forum to point out how much greater he is than Luck, well, that gets on my nerves. If they are in love with him, I don't care, but go to a skins forum to talk about his greatness. When they do it on a Colts forum, they are trying to start trouble IMO.

[YOUR GM]

All of that is really besides the point. My only reason for posting that was because of the RG3 lovers that come to a Colts forum to brag about his awesome completion percentage. Another Skins fan posted stats in different thread comparing Luck and Griffin and was trying to say that RG3 throws just as many deep passes as Luck and when I pointed out the actual stats he(himself) posted actually told a completely different story, well then he disappeared and hasn't been back since. I honestly do not care at all what RG3 has done this season, but when his fanboys come to this forum to point out how much greater he is than Luck, well, that gets on my nerves. If they are in love with him, I don't care, but go to a skins forum to talk about his greatness. When they do it on a Colts forum, they are trying to start trouble IMO.

It's all they have, man. Their team is going nowhere, and they know their owner is going to continue to sabotage the team with poor roster moves and inflated contracts. Griffin will win ROY, and he deserves it. I'm more than happy about the fact that we have Luck and he's on the verge of leading us to the playoffs, this year and for many years to come.

[Tsarquise]

I still maintain that this was not, ON THE WHOLE, a good performance, and he has a lot to learn from going back over the film.

That said, his work in the last few minutes was incredible and had me jumping around the room with delight. Things like that make me certain he's destined for greatness. I just wish he'd cut down on the turnovers.

Agreed

[Tsarquise]

I think calling someone a homer is much more tame than calling this "a CULTS forum."

Lol that's actually pretty funny. I can see it. Lol

[Tsarquise]

snippet from an ESPN Insider article:

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

just to put it in perspective...

What is Andrew Lucks percentage?

[BrentMc11]

I'd even take this to the stage that we are being too critical of his mistakes. We know his O-line is not great. We know it's harder on the road to play QB. His 1st Interception was no different from Manning's yesterday. Even the greatest throw them. His second was a yard short of a TD, and he just did wonderfully well to evade the rush and step up and launch. It may even have been a coaching call to go deep. The 3rd? We are two scores down, going nowhere fast, and he's been getting trampled on all day.

Even when it happened I was still fine with his performance. He led 3 great TD drives and was getting smacked all day.

Too may posters are living in the Madden World. He's a fantastic kid with a great future ahead. All this negativity boils down to unrealistic expectation. And what he did in those last four minutes had me as happy and as proud to support this young team as I have ever felt about any team. Ever.

I think this is one of the best posts of this 7 page conglomeration of fans with no knowledge of football, limited knowledge of football, solid knowledge of football, vast knowledge of football......and the Madden players....and those just wanting to start "_______"

Luck shows an uncanny ability to avoid the rush (got away from Suh and Fairley on the same play) and Castanzo was in a boot, Reitz was carted off, Satele still banged up, McGlynn payed with the flu, and Justice left with a concussion.

Did ANYONE notice AQ Shipley blow out Suh when he was playing LEFT GUARD?

Yes I know this started as a nasty thread on a "Horrific day" by Andrew Luck, but the kids who played.....played with hearts bigger than a Lion!!! Big win....and to see a backup center (should start IMO) giving 110% (Link moved to right tackle) Brazill make a huge catch.....and Fleener both blocking well and a nice TD grab........so positive for a team that looked like it needed Colonel Potter, Hawkeye Pierce and Hot lips Houlihan.....as the MASH unit. Great win Colts!!!! :highfive: :clap: :thmsup: ;)

[Warhorse]

So how many O-lineman will we bring in this week?

[RGIII]

snippet from an ESPN Insider article

Awwww... I was hoping I could sit on that article for a little while. It was going to be my "In Case of Emergency, Break Glass" measure ;)

[rdskns4eva]

snippet from an ESPN Insider article:

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

just to put it in perspective...

So basically, all the elite quaterbacks are throwing short. Thats what I get from this article. Interesting. I hope I dont have to hear anymore RG3 throws short arguments. Especially when all the top quartbacks in the NFL are doing the same thing.

[JoKeR]

So basically, all the elite quaterbacks are throwing short. Thats what I get from this article. Interesting. I hope I dont have to hear anymore RG3 throws short arguments. Especially when all the top quartbacks in the NFL are doing the same thing.

No one is saying there is something wrong with throwing short but are saying if Luck had short passes to throw to, his stats would be cleaner. Right now Luck is coached to throw the long ball.

[rdskns4eva]

Here is the complete article:

[Mod note: The text of the article was removed for copyright reasons. It's not allowed to post an article in its entirety. Please repost a snippet of the source article with a link to where it can be found. Thanks.]

Edited December 3, 2012 by Superman
copyright

[Ryan Pelley]

You people are ridiculous.... How dare a rookie quarterback make bad reads and throw interceptions. UNACCEPTABLE!

[BrentMc11]

Here is the complete article:

[copyright]

I just went to see 'Lincoln' Who would have thought Colts Forum had it in text version.....WOW! Do you have a glossary of terms with that.....The Ghost of Osceola is crying..... Just kidding of course!

Edited December 3, 2012 by Superman
copyright

[BrentMc11]

So how many O-lineman will we bring in this week?

My guess is one....Justin Anderson is on the PS.....they need to see if he can do anything as a draft pick. If Hills is not active....maybe two. I will guess a guard.........since we have none....even though Shipley played his heart out.

[Archer]

Y'know, Luck's season has been just like Peyton's rookie season. They send him out there and say, "Go forth and throweth down field, and learneth what must be learned." He's made some awful mistakes and he's learning from those mistakes. Contrast that to RGIII, who seldomly throws down field. The Redskins go into tonight's game 4 of 44 on third downs of 8 or more yards. When asked to throw downfield against defenses geared to stop the pass, RGIII simply hasn't converted. Luck has converted a lot, but made a lot of mistakes along the way. Which approach is better? RGIII's has been better for his stat line, but the Colts are 8-4 and Luck has learned a lot of "what not to do". In the long run, I think that Luck is getting more valuable experience and is building confidence. RGIII can have his ORotY award - I'm guessing Luck will be practically indefensible by mid-next season.

[BrentMc11]

Y'know, Luck's season has been just like Peyton's rookie season. They send him out there and say, "Go forth and throweth down field, and learneth what must be learned." He's made some awful mistakes and he's learning from those mistakes. Contrast that to RGIII, who seldomly throws down field. The Redskins go into tonight's game 4 of 44 on third downs of 8 or more yards. When asked to throw downfield against defenses geared to stop the pass, RGIII simply hasn't converted. Luck has converted a lot, but made a lot of mistakes along the way. Which approach is better? RGIII's has been better for his stat line, but the Colts are 8-4 and Luck has learned a lot of "what not to do". In the long run, I think that Luck is getting more valuable experience and is building confidence. RGIII can have his ORotY award - I'm guessing Luck will be practically indefensible by mid-next season.

I was just talking to somebody about Luck. They said they cannot believe how young he is and making these 4th qtr runs. Your point of future "indefensibility" is well taken, and may in time be SPOT ON!!!! Nice post Archer. All great QBs have had multiple INT games......and lost....not an incredible comeback like yesterday!!!

[rdskns4eva]

Y'know, Luck's season has been just like Peyton's rookie season. They send him out there and say, "Go forth and throweth down field, and learneth what must be learned." He's made some awful mistakes and he's learning from those mistakes. Contrast that to RGIII, who seldomly throws down field. The Redskins go into tonight's game 4 of 44 on third downs of 8 or more yards. When asked to throw downfield against defenses geared to stop the pass, RGIII simply hasn't converted. Luck has converted a lot, but made a lot of mistakes along the way. Which approach is better? RGIII's has been better for his stat line, but the Colts are 8-4 and Luck has learned a lot of "what not to do". In the long run, I think that Luck is getting more valuable experience and is building confidence. RGIII can have his ORotY award - I'm guessing Luck will be practically indefensible by mid-next season.

"RG3 runs, but much of it has been by design.

And RG3 isn't just accurate because he's throwing short. On throws of more than 20 yards, his accuracy percentage is 52.2 percent, third highest in the NFL. According to ESPN Stats & Info, he's completed 66.7 percent of those 20-plus-yard throws, second highest in the NFL. And RG3 actually throws downfield plenty next to his peers. On intermediate throws (10-20 yards) he's completed 42 passes, more than Brady or Rodgers. This goes back to last season at Baylor, where coaches Art Briles and Phil Montgomery tinkered with his delivery on the deep ball. His 72.4 percent completion percentage last season wasn't just pure college offensive gimmickry -- his 10.7 yards per attempt led the nation."

[Superman]

Good post.

The knock on Griffin throwing shorter passes is a bit overstated around here. I think Luck's numbers would be similar, if he were in a more diverse offense. What he's asked to do here just invites turnovers and low completion percentages, especially for a rookie. Arians should be the one indicted for his play-calling and handling of Luck; not Griffin. He's only executing the offense he's been asked to run.

However, when someone says "Griffin is better than Luck because he has a higher completion percentage," it's worth mentioning that Griffin completes a lot of short throws, and Luck's attempts are more down the field. Like you said, in a similar offense, Luck's completion percentage would probably be considerably higher. And like you said, Arians deserves a lot of blame for not giving his quarterback -- rookie or not -- easier passes to attempt.

And in all of that, I believe Luck is the most effective in the league in pass attempts 15(?) yards down the field. So the completion percentage argument is kind of hard to sink your teeth into. Knowhatimean?

[GoColts8818]

Again there are no excuses needed. Luck is still a rookie QB and plays like it at times. They make bad mistakes and throw bad picks. It is what it is and not something worth blowing out of proportion. The thing that I think is more important thing is just how good Luck has been in the two minute situation and game winning drives this year and not turning the ball over there. That's normally where you see rookie QBs make big mistakes. Luck has done just the reverse he has thrived in those situations and that's just not something you see from rookie QBs which is what tells me we have a special player on our hands.

[Balzer40]

However, when someone says "Griffin is better than Luck because he has a higher completion percentage," it's worth mentioning that Griffin completes a lot of short throws, and Luck's attempts are more down the field. Like you said, in a similar offense, Luck's completion percentage would probably be considerably higher. And like you said, Arians deserves a lot of blame for not giving his quarterback -- rookie or not -- easier passes to attempt.

And in all of that, I believe Luck is the most effective in the league in pass attempts 15(?) yards down the field. So the completion percentage argument is kind of hard to sink your teeth into. Knowhatimean?

Good post and I agree 100%. Some here think I hate RG3 because this is what I have been saying about him in another thread. I don't hate RG3 and I think he has done a great job for what he is asked to do, but his stats have undoubtedly been pumped up by the offense he is in. Luck gets a bad rap for his low completion %, but those that are saying that have not taken into account the reasons why.

[braveheartcolt]

It's all about risk and reward. Clearly the Colts play calling is for longer (therefore more susceptable to error) throws. The Skins prefer the long way up the field. One protects the QB from mistakes, and the other brings forth more wins (or opportunity for more wins, as the risks mean it doesn't always work). I'm sure either QB could work in reverse.

But someone posting a 6 million word tome by a writer from ESPN is clearly clamouring for something that is missing from their life.

[rdskns4eva]

It's all about risk and reward. Clearly the Colts play calling is for longer (therefore more susceptable to error) throws. The Skins prefer the long way up the field. One protects the QB from mistakes, and the other brings forth more wins (or opportunity for more wins, as the risks mean it doesn't always work). I'm sure either QB could work in reverse.

But someone posting a 6 million word tome by a writer from ESPN is clearly clamouring for something that is missing from their life.

It wasnt 6 million words, nor was it placed in a tome, book, magazine, but whatever.

Someone posted a snippet from the article. I just took the liberty of posting the entire article for everyone to read. You dont need to read it, but it's a good article regardless. Sheds a lot of light on the RG3 throwing short stuff and basically says that, while he does throw short, pretty much every elite quarterback in the NFL throws short at either the same rate as RG3 or greater.

[braveheartcolt]

Oh, sorry. I must have miscounted. My mistake....

[vinsanity]

this is hilarious. Luck has subpar OL and terrible RBs and gets sacked so much.

the team is 8-5 riding on rookies arms. lets compare him to RG3 and Jets QBs bc that totally makes sense.

I'll take Redskins OL & Morris any day.

[Balzer40]

It wasnt 6 million words, nor was it placed in a tome, book, magazine, but whatever.

Someone posted a snippet from the article. I just took the liberty of posting the entire article for everyone to read. You dont need to read it, but it's a good article regardless. Sheds a lot of light on the RG3 throwing short stuff and basically says that, while he does throw short, pretty much every elite quarterback in the NFL throws short at either the same rate as RG3 or greater.

The problem is that many of your fellow Skins fans have been saying that RG3 throws more deep passes than he actually has. They point out that he is better than Luck because he has a better completion % and less Int's. All of us Colts fans have just pointed out that the majority of his passes are short passes and he has many many less attempts than Luck and this is what has helped him have such a higher % than Luck. This has been the only argument all along.

[open window]

this is hilarious. Luck has subpar OL and terrible RBs and gets sacked so much.

the team is 8-5 riding on rookies arms. lets compare him to RG3 and Jets QBs bc that totally makes sense.

I'll take Redskins OL & Morris any day.

8-4, but i feel ya

[stat2883]

well, just to put this out there - I've never indicted Luck for having a lower completion percentage because I realize what he's asked to do is different. I have talked about his accuracy on certain passes, but his percentage is more a function of the types of throws he's asked to make. I have stated Arian's role in this as well dating back several weeks ago.

And to respond to the post that talked about 3rd down conversions - on 3rd and long, the skins typically resort to a more conventional formation with a straight drop back. The o-line is subpar in these situations and Griffin's pressures and hits illustrate this. Proportionally, he gets pressured about as much as Luck does per pass attempt. The reason their line looks good is because the option plays force the defense to freeze for a second and gives Griffin more time. On a straight drop back with little threat of a run, such as 3rd and long, Griffin is getting hit more often. Now of course there's things he can do to improve obviously, but a lot of that is a function of the team around him putting them in difficult positions through dropped passes, penalties, and poor blocking. Quick, name one QB this year whose had to face a 3rd and 45.

Of course I don't expect to change anyone's mind here though - but just take the time and look at the film for yourself if you make broad statements, because everything I say, I can produce a lot of evidence for.

But in the end, I would ask that you don't lump us all in with the few RG3 trolls that come here to stir the pot. I'm all about objective assessment and have watched plenty of both. You won't find me ever saying Luck is bad at anything - usually just offering counter points to the vitriol towards Griffin, and I don't think I've ever started the debates that I can remember.

[Buck Showalter]

If Luck doesnt throw into double & tripple coverage, he doesnt make that completion to Reggie on the game winning drive...

If Luck doesnt throw a good deep ball how does he make the touchdown pass to Brazil,to leave just enough clock to give the team a chance at a game winning drive...

Luck led this team to another win...The kid has leadership ooozing out of his pours, and if you cant see that there is nothing I can do for you...

[rdskns4eva]

Oh, sorry. I must have miscounted. My mistake....

It's all good.

[rdskns4eva]

The problem is that many of your fellow Skins fans have been saying that RG3 throws more deep passes than he actually has. They point out that he is better than Luck because he has a better completion % and less Int's. All of us Colts fans have just pointed out that the majority of his passes are short passes and he has many many less attempts than Luck and this is what has helped him have such a higher % than Luck. This has been the only argument all along.

Hey, I think Luck is a stud. I watched that game yesterday and I still think he turns the ball over way to much. Even if the offense calls for him to throw the ball 50 times a game, you still have to be careful with the ball, period, end of story.

That said, dude is clutch and that is huge for a quarterback. And he's built like a linebacker and tough. He can make every throw. Dude is a beast. Five 4th quarter comebacks proves it.

Rg3 is a beast as well. The article I posted above is proof to that as well. The numbers (RG3's statitics and Lucks 4th quarter effectiveness) dont lie for either quarterback.

All that being said and this statement isnt a knock on Luck in anyway, but I'm sure that if you asked most defenses coodinators in the league who they would rather game plan agaisnt, I'm almost certain it would be Luck. Rg3 by himself causes all types of matchup problems for a defense and thats BEFORE we start talking about offensive scheme.