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Stephen

if collie had stayed healthy

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I see Whalen coming up and filling the slot post well. Maybe even Welker-ish.

that's what I'm thinking that would also help us score more in the red zone

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I'm not sure about that. If the question is how much more production would we see with Collie on the field instead of Hilton, I would support the argument that Collie may well, as a vet, had no worse numbers than Hilton does now. But there are things Collie can't do that Hilton can. And Collie wouldn't have been in the Avery role. Brazill wouldn't have the catches he has, as the next man in would have been Hilton probably with a healthy Collie. But with Brazill we're talking about 9 catches. More to the point, Collie in his best years had 60, 58, and 54 receptions, Hilton in 11 games has 33. So other than Collie's 9 game 58 catch season prior to that injury, I'd say the numbers wouldn't be dramatically different. If Hilton catches 5 a game for the last 5 games, he would have 58 for the season. Right where Collie would have been in my opinion. So no functional change. Not 7 more touchdowns right now for Luck for sure. Collie on the field wouldn't change the play calling in the red zone, nor would he necessarily have more targets than Hilton has, which is the comparison in my mind.

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I'm not sure about that. If the question is how much more production would we see with Collie on the field instead of Hilton, I would support the argument that Collie may well, as a vet, had no worse numbers than Hilton does now. But there are things Collie can't do that Hilton can. And Collie wouldn't have been in the Avery role. Brazill wouldn't have the catches he has, as the next man in would have been Hilton probably with a healthy Collie. But with Brazill we're talking about 9 catches. More to the point, Collie in his best years had 60, 58, and 54 receptions, Hilton in 11 games has 33. So other than Collie's 9 game 58 catch season prior to that injury, I'd say the numbers wouldn't be dramatically different. If Hilton catches 5 a game for the last 5 games, he would have 58 for the season. Right where Collie would have been in my opinion. So no functional change. Not 7 more touchdowns right now for Luck for sure. Collie on the field wouldn't change the play calling in the red zone, nor would he necessarily have more targets than Hilton has, which is the comparison in my mind.

collie would have made difference in the red zone also he is a good third down reciever so we prob would have sustained more drives and produces more points if collie were healthy he would have been used in the slot and avery and hilton would take turns with the deep pass

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collie would have made difference in the red zone also he is a good third down reciever so we prob would have sustained more drives and produces more points if collie were healthy he would have been used in the slot and avery and hilton would take turns with the deep pass

The Colts have the third best 3rd down conversion rate in the NFL. I'm not sure they could be doing that any better. Collie is a nice piece, a talented guy, but your original post asks if his presence alone would mean 7 more TDs and 600 more passing yards right now for Luck. I see no way those numbers could happen. First, because if you place Collie back in the lineup, you must take away catches form someone else, you can't just add Collie's production to the results. The Colts wouldn't be running Wayne, Collie, Avery, and Hilton out there on every down, so getting to 7 additional TDs and 600 more yards to me is impossible. I also disagree Collie would have made a difference in the red zone. Arians would call the plays he calls. What I means is, I do not think Arians thought so highly of Collie over Hilton (who is his replacement) that the play calling would have changed or the results any different.

3800 yards would be almost 400 ahead of anyone in the NFL right now. Collie would not make that huge a difference. Stafford leads the NFL with 3400 yards passing. No, Luck wouldn't have 3800 yards today if Collie were healthy. No.

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I think Brazil needs to get more slot experience...Lets forget about Collie shall we?

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I think we'd be better on some areas but what's done is done. Can't dwell in the past or what if life

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Our WR's have had great plays, but also too many drops. We also have issues getting open in the red zone, probably because there's not enough real estate for our guys to get separation. Collie would certainly be an asset for us keeping drives going consistently, converting more red zone TD's, and offering the threat of a big play. He's not a TY Hilton kind of catch and run home run hitter, but he can work short, intermediate, and deep routes.

It sucks that he's not able to be out there helping us, but it is what it is.

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The Colts have the third best 3rd down conversion rate in the NFL. I'm not sure they could be doing that any better. Collie is a nice piece, a talented guy, but your original post asks if his presence alone would mean 7 more TDs and 600 more passing yards right now for Luck. I see no way those numbers could happen. First, because if you place Collie back in the lineup, you must take away catches form someone else, you can't just add Collie's production to the results. The Colts wouldn't be running Wayne, Collie, Avery, and Hilton out there on every down, so getting to 7 additional TDs and 600 more yards to me is impossible. I also disagree Collie would have made a difference in the red zone. Arians would call the plays he calls. What I means is, I do not think Arians thought so highly of Collie over Hilton (who is his replacement) that the play calling would have changed or the results any different.

3800 yards would be almost 400 ahead of anyone in the NFL right now. Collie would not make that huge a difference. Stafford leads the NFL with 3400 yards passing. No, Luck wouldn't have 3800 yards today if Collie were healthy. No.

I think, if anything, Luck's completion percentage would be higher, and maybe three or four more touchdowns. But not more yardage.

I do think Collie's production would have been more consistent than Hilton's has been. Hilton could hardly get on the field as a receiver in the first few weeks, but in preseason, Luck was Collie's favorite target. I think it would be Collie having a career year instead of Reggie, had he been healthy all season.

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This is silly, it''s just like saying "If Bob Sanders was Healthy..........."

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I think, if anything, Luck's completion percentage would be higher, and maybe three or four more touchdowns. But not more yardage.

I do think Collie's production would have been more consistent than Hilton's has been. Hilton could hardly get on the field as a receiver in the first few weeks, but in preseason, Luck was Collie's favorite target. I think it would be Collie having a career year instead of Reggie, had he been healthy all season.

The only evidence we have is the Jags game, and Collie had two looks, one picked but called back, and the one catch where he got hurt. But the play by play of that game tells me a lot about how involved Collie would have been. Hilton scored his first TD and was targeted much more. I agree Collie would have meant a better completion percentage. But there is nothing in Collie's past, which is with PM, that suggests to me he would have been anything more than what he is, which is a 58 catch 8 TD kind of guy. Which, if things keep on keeping on, is about where Hilton will end up.

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At the very least 200 more yardage and 4 more tds

Ok, so we're down to the obvious, which is, with Collie would the Colts be better? Yes.

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I see Whalen coming up and filling the slot post well. Maybe even Welker-ish.

I like Whalen but 1 of Welkers attributes is he's very fast. Whalen probably isn't even as fast as Collie. It's Collie who is Welkerish.

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luck would prob have around 3800 passing yards right now and 20 tds

Luck completion % would be higher * looking at you Avery*

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I'm not sure about that. If the question is how much more production would we see with Collie on the field instead of Hilton, I would support the argument that Collie may well, as a vet, had no worse numbers than Hilton does now. But there are things Collie can't do that Hilton can. And Collie wouldn't have been in the Avery role. Brazill wouldn't have the catches he has, as the next man in would have been Hilton probably with a healthy Collie. But with Brazill we're talking about 9 catches. More to the point, Collie in his best years had 60, 58, and 54 receptions, Hilton in 11 games has 33. So other than Collie's 9 game 58 catch season prior to that injury, I'd say the numbers wouldn't be dramatically different. If Hilton catches 5 a game for the last 5 games, he would have 58 for the season. Right where Collie would have been in my opinion. So no functional change. Not 7 more touchdowns right now for Luck for sure. Collie on the field wouldn't change the play calling in the red zone, nor would he necessarily have more targets than Hilton has, which is the comparison in my mind.

That second year collie would have had close to 100 rec but he got knocked out for concussions twice

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The only evidence we have is the Jags game, and Collie had two looks, one picked but called back, and the one catch where he got hurt. But the play by play of that game tells me a lot about how involved Collie would have been. Hilton scored his first TD and was targeted much more. I agree Collie would have meant a better completion percentage. But there is nothing in Collie's past, which is with PM, that suggests to me he would have been anything more than what he is, which is a 58 catch 8 TD kind of guy. Which, if things keep on keeping on, is about where Hilton will end up.

I'd put in Collie for Avery, Collie isn't as fast but can catch while being hit, Avery's arms fold like an accordion when hit.

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That second year collie would have had close to 100 rec but he got knocked out for concussions twice

You've hit the nail on the head though - all we do know about Collie is he gets hurt. Nine games 58 catches was a great start. But his NFL history is not getting to 100 catches, so would is not the word I'd use. Was on pace, could have, sure. But what has happend, as opposed to what might happen, is a 58 catch a year guy. Injuries will preclude us, maybe for good, of ever knowing. It happens a lot in the NFL. But to suggest Collie was ever going to be a 100 catch a year huge difference maker, #1 type WR to me is a huge reach. That isn't what he was.

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I'd put in Collie for Avery, Collie isn't as fast but can catch while being hit, Avery's arms fold like an accordion when hit.

Agreed.

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Didn't Whalen tear his acl? He will never be the same.. collie will always be a step ahead of Whalen.. Remember we mostly saw Whalen against second and third string players in meaningless games..

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Didn't Whalen tear his acl? He will never be the same.. collie will always be a step ahead of Whalen.. Remember we mostly saw Whalen against second and third string players in meaningless games..

no he just hurt his foot I think he will be good we just have to wait til next year to find out

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I think Brazil could be another slot guy for us, I like Avery but the guy drops too many passes.

Both Hilton & Brazil are the future for the Colts at WR.

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Averys' drops?... lets not forget Hiltons as well. i think Collie Raises Luck completion percentage thus increasing his yds as well tough to say about the TDs since Hilton leads the team in TD catches.

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I agree Manning 04. I love Collies style of play. And he rarely drops the ball.. The kid just knows how to get open and make plays..

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Oh right Stephen, now I remember. Yes he should bounce back from a foot injury.. I'm interested to see what he does next season.

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I am sorry to say, but Collie will not last in the NFL, I don't see it lasting at all.

Concussions, then this year injury, I just don't think he will be able to stay healthy anymore. He is going through what Bob Sanders use to go through few years back.

His career is almost over, lets face it. 1 more injury and the colts will part way with him.

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The only evidence we have is the Jags game, and Collie had two looks, one picked but called back, and the one catch where he got hurt. But the play by play of that game tells me a lot about how involved Collie would have been. Hilton scored his first TD and was targeted much more. I agree Collie would have meant a better completion percentage. But there is nothing in Collie's past, which is with PM, that suggests to me he would have been anything more than what he is, which is a 58 catch 8 TD kind of guy. Which, if things keep on keeping on, is about where Hilton will end up.

Those 58 catches and 8 touchdowns came in about eight and a half games. He was on pace for a career year that season.

As for his work with Luck, it wasn't all that much, but he was targeted several times in the Rams preseason game, and caught a touchdown. He and Luck seemed to be on the same page, and based on camp reports, he was going to be a big part of the passing game.

But more than that, he was ready to produce from the beginning, had he not been hurt. Hilton has had flashes here and there, and lately has worked his way into a nice set of games, but he wasn't polished. Still isn't, actually. In contrast, Collie would have been out on the field as a receiver 90% of the time, and likely would have produced.

Hilton might wind up being a very productive receiver. If he keeps up his current pace and trajectory, he'll probably wind up with close to 60 catches and 8 touchdowns. But I think Collie would be there (or close) already, with five games left. Assuming health. It's really a shame that Collie can't hold up, and I think he's probably played his last game as a Colt. But if he were healthy, he'd easily be our second best receiver, and that would have been the case all year long.

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Collie wouldn't be burning by CBs like Avery (and dropping the ball at such a high rate), but he would definitely provide a Reggie-like presence in the middle of the field. He has a high football IQ, he finds holes in the zone, he gets open, and he catches the ball. If Collie were healthy Reggie wouldn't have so many yards, there wouldn't be so many drops, and Luck would probably be about the same in yards. Completion percentage, TDs, and total points scored would be a fair bit higher I feel.

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I see Whalen coming up and filling the slot post well. Maybe even Welker-ish.

I hope this is a joke. lol

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Whalen can be welker like

Anyone can be Welker-like. There's nothing special about him, physically.

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I like Whalen but 1 of Welkers attributes is he's very fast. Whalen probably isn't even as fast as Collie. It's Collie who is Welkerish.

I hope this is a joke. lol

Funny.

Welker:

5'9 185 40 yard: 4.65

Whalen

5'11 185 40 yard 4.57

Collie

6'0 204 40 yard: 4.53

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Collie would hurt us in the long term we were not gonna resign him with his concussion issues so why no let guys who our gonna be here long term get the reps and exp an not stunt their growth

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From what I saw from Whalen in training and preseason he is a very hard worker with excellent hands and not afraid to take hits. He seems to protect himself better when anticipating hits and holds onto the ball. Don't get me wrong I am a big Collie fan but I think there are too many injury issues with Collie and Whalen is younger. I think the foot injury to IR might have been a little premature.

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collie is amazing, if he had stayed healthy our offense would be alot more productive. alot of the 3rd down checks that get dropped maybe dont happen with collie being the target, etc etc.. a bunch of what ifs, but yeah i feel we would be better off offensively with him in. hes a serious threat in the slot, and plays the outside well too

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