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Greenoughrunner

Luck vs rg3

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Luck is more accurate throwing more int than RG3. :)

Either way, I am going to say Tim Tebow will have more success in the long run. :disco: :rock: :clap:

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Personally, I would prefer if Luck made OROY and Griffin just does his thing, takes his team deep into the playoffs and surprise the heck out of a team in the Superbowl...ala Rothlisberger's rookie year.

That simple.

Forget about the hype and holler. Just give me the wins baby.

Now now, Daddy Brady & Payton are around, they will score 50 burgers on the colts any given nights in the playoffs, Luck will have to wait for his turn in a few years.

Don't forget: 24-59 :highfive2:

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Bobby Griffin 3 is a good player no doubt. But does anybody think he could come in here and run this offense? I don't,

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It must be hard to cheer for the Colts then if you don't like Luck.

Normally a fan of a team is going to root for the guy leading said team. Especially a team that is 8-4.

It's pretty obvious to me who you truly are a fan of.

Never said i didn't like him.

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, December 6, 2012 - quoting edited post

Bobby Griffin 3 is a good player no doubt. But does anybody think he could come in here and run this offense? I don't, he isn't smart enough

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, December 6, 2012 - personal shot

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I refuse to feel bad because I don't feel Robert is advanced enough mentally to make the reads/decisions/playcalls that Andrew makes weekly. I'm not taking anything away from his physical ability. Robert's reads are pretty easy

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Personally, I would prefer if Luck made OROY and Griffin just does his thing, takes his team deep into the playoffs and surprise the heck out of a team in the Superbowl...ala Rothlisberger's rookie year.

That simple.

Forget about the hype and holler. Just give me the wins baby.

Roethlisberger won his first SB in his 2nd year. And the Redskins defense is far too bad to make a run in the playoffs. Just like ours. You're not going to encounter inept offenses like the Giants showed in the playoffs.

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Via ESPN insider..

.RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

Then consider the "running QB" critique.

....So far in 2013, of RG3's league-leading 100 carries, a full 63 of them were designed runs. That means through 11 games, and 367 drop backs, Griffin has actually chosen to scramble only 37 times. According to Pro Football Focus, Griffin is pressured at a somewhat scary rate of 35.1 percent of drop backs thanks to Washington's offensive line. Think of it this way: RG3 has seen pressure at an almost identical rate as Luck, and has scrambled on average about one more time per game. (Again: with 4.41 speed.) Given his ridiculous talents as a runner, the stronger case to be made is that RG3 is actually showing restraint as a runner, not too much confidence in his legs. His Run EPA is lower than even Jay Cutler's.....

....The accuracy stands up under another level of scrutiny -- pressure. Against five or more rushers, RG3 has completed 67.4 percent of passes, a higher rate than the impossible-to-blitz Peyton Manning. His accuracy percentage under pressure is an obscene 81.9 percent, an NFL high....

.....According to PFF, RG3's accuracy percentage (which accounts for drops, throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB is hit while throwing) is at an NFL-leading 80.5 percent. The lead itself is impressive, but to put that number in context, since PFF began tracking the stat in 2008, only Rodgers has a higher rate -- 80.6 percent. In other words, RG3 through 11 games is as accurate a passer as we've seen in the NFL over a five-year period when virtually every passing record has been torched. Among rookies in that time, Ryan has the best full-season mark, at 74.6 percent. How deterministic is that number? This season, the guys directly trailing RG3 are Rodgers, Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Matt Schaub and Brady. Pretty good company....

Robert Griffin III beats Luck in a majority of metrics that measure QB play. Luck is good and probably will be great but Robert will be better.

I suggest some people actually learn about the skins offense before you chalk it up to " college offense" .. That is a lazy argument. Redskins are running most of the Shanahan offense out of college formations like the pistol.

You did not just compare a rookie 13 weeks into his career to an NFL vet that has been around for 7 or so years. RGII's game works for him because of the speed of his receivers, why not take advantage of it by using screens and short passes? Or he could just hand it off to that beast of a RB. He will not have the sort of success Luck has if he was in the Indy offense, given what he will have to work with.

And no he will not be better.

I suggest yo see the Colts offense to see just how much is on this kids shoulders. He has so many INTs because he's the only way we could score on offense. He has to take his chances. If we win, its because of him. If we lose, same thing. RGIII against the Giants was not spectacular by any means, That TD was wide open by a mile. He could literally throw 21 times because his team ran for 200+ yards and shut down the Giants offense. That's a luxury I hope Luck will be able to have.

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I feel the argument originally posted has moved, and is now Redskins fans and ex-Colts fans who still fantasise about Peyton deciding to throw up whatever muck they can on Luck to discredit him and make themselves feel good.

I watched the Giants game on MNF, and the QB Now Known as Running Back is a very talented football palyer. But he is not in the same calibre as Luck. Tricks and speed and slight of hand. He's mesmerising to watch, and as the tape will reveal, wholly defendable in time. He is actually Tim Tebow with smarts.

And as for the endless barage of fans he has on here, the only dissapointing thing is more than half are Colts fans. Or were once Colts fans.

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It's an apples and oranges comparison, so this entire debate is about who has the greener lawn. And we both own golf courses. If Luck threw 21 passes in a game, completing 13 of them, the Colts couldn't win. The Browns game is the only one out of 12 so far in which Luck wasn't asked to toss it around like a guy with his hair on fire. RG3 can, and has, been able to limit the attempts, maintain balanced play calling with some regularity. Wilson too. But the offenses are so different, the players on the rosters so different... I agree with many others who have said that the huge advantage RG3 (and Wilson) have is their running games. More importantly, RG3 isn't being routinely asked to make multiple reads on five and seven step drops 25+ times a game, while Luck is. But that isn't a knock on RG3, it's what Shanahan is asking of him. So the issue to me than becomes could RG3 be performing as well on the Colts, and Luck on the Skins? We don't know, and it doesn't matter. It is likely the numbers would be as they are now. Why? Because they are both talented, smart, athletic, quality QBs.

Me back on Sept 9 -- "As for Luck being just as good in that game....apples and oranges - totally different offenses and skill sets."

the arguing will never stop :)

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Robert's reads are pretty easy

please elaborate - describe the read progression -- You have your X running a deep post route, the Z running a 10-15 yard dig, the TE on a quick out, play-action to Morris from the pistol formation with the FB to Griffin's right. Let's say the defense is in a single high look with man underneath.

:P

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I refuse to feel bad because I don't feel Robert is advanced enough mentally to make the reads/decisions/playcalls that Andrew makes weekly. I'm not taking anything away from his physical ability. Robert's reads are pretty easy

So...it's Griffin's fault if his first and second option are open immediately?

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So...it's Griffin's fault if his first and second option are open immediately?

No, it's not his fault. I would simply say that it is easier to project Luck's ability to continue making these reads into the future than RG3, as Griffin will endure more of a learning curve when D's begin to adjust to his running abilities and said routes are no longer immediately available.

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No, it's not his fault. I would simply say that it is easier to project Luck's ability to continue making these reads into the future than RG3, as Griffin will endure more of a learning curve when D's begin to adjust to his running abilities and said routes are no longer immediately available.

Eh, perhaps. But I have seen Griffin extend plays in a Tebowesque way, running around in the backfield while keeping his eyes down field the whole time...and making the 23 yard completion on third down. Reminds me quite a bit of Rodgers too, combined with his accuracy.

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Eh, perhaps. But I have seen Griffin extend plays in a Tebowesque way, running around in the backfield while keeping his eyes down field the whole time...and making the 23 yard completion on third down. Reminds me quite a bit of Rodgers too, combined with his accuracy.

I can't disagree with any of that. RG3 does have some tremendous instincts, and he very well may continue that ability to deliver those strikes. I just think that we have seen Luck do it beyond his first few reads (ie Avery a 5th read in Detroit), whereas RG3 hasn't really had to yet. Simply for this reason of the unknown I think its easier to project Luck's ability to keep it up. Not to say RG3 won't be able to, just that we don't know yet.

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PFF put out percentage Stats of throws by QB's that go 10 yards or less for all you stating RG3 throws only short passes. Well it looks as though there is some pretty good QB's that throw more short passes then RG3 heres the stats......the short pass argument.. passes 10 yards or less RG3 74.6%, Brady 81%, Ryan 73%, Manning 74.1%, Rogers 73.4%

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PFF put out percentage Stats of throws by QB's that go 10 yards or less for all you stating RG3 throws only short passes. Well it looks as though there is some pretty good QB's that throw more short passes then RG3 heres the stats......the short pass argument.. passes 10 yards or less RG3 74.6%, Brady 81%, Ryan 73%, Manning 74.1%, Rogers 73.4%

I've long came to the conclusion that people on see what they want to see. The bread and butter of the WCO is the short, quick pass. Another fact that is overlooked is touchdowns over 20+ yards and who is leading in the category. Cherry picking is the name of the game. Everybody loves Peyton but his strength was never his long ball. It was reading the defense and methodically dissecting them with the short pass until the long ball opened up (and yes, I've been following Peyton Manning since '94). It's all a perception thing, like Sundays win. As awesome as the comeback was, people overlook the fact that his completion percentage was under 45% and his 3 interceptions kind of put them in the position to where they had to comeback. That's why when it comes to gauging players, I look at it with objectivity. Everybody is talking about Seattle's defense without realizing this was the same defense that they had and didn't make it to the playoffs. Also, he led a pretty impressive comeback also, against a better team. I just say we all take this season of awesomeness in and just let it be. *looks around and shrugs*
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I've long came to the conclusion that people on see what they want to see. The bread and butter of the WCO is the short, quick pass. Another fact that is overlooked is touchdowns over 20+ yards and who is leading in the category. Cherry picking is the name of the game. Everybody loves Peyton but his strength was never his long ball. It was reading the defense and methodically dissecting them with the short pass until the long ball opened up (and yes, I've been following Peyton Manning since '94). It's all a perception thing, like Sundays win. As awesome as the comeback was, people overlook the fact that his completion percentage was under 45% and his 3 interceptions kind of put them in the position to where they had to comeback. That's why when it comes to gauging players, I look at it with objectivity. Everybody is talking about Seattle's defense without realizing this was the same defense that they had and didn't make it to the playoffs. Also, he led a pretty impressive comeback also, against a better team. I just say we all take this season of awesomeness in and just let it be. *looks around and shrugs*

People will overlook completion percentage because in this offense it doesn't really matter. This is not a dink and dunk offense with high percentage throws. This is a vertical offense that is high risk and high reward. There are going to be incompletions and there are going to be turnovers. There are also going to be huge plays. Huge plays like the one Luck converted late in the game on Sunday to get the lead back to one score. Is the object of the game to have a high completion percentage or is the object to win the game?

I don't think you really have a clue how much is expected of Luck honestly. He IS the offense. His O line is garbage, his running game last week had a whopping 88 yards and Luck himself accounted for 33 of those. He has one great wideout, one castoff WR, 2 rookie WR and 2 rookie tightends. This is not a team that wins 8 games with stat lines like 13 of 21 for 165 yards passing.

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Through 12 games>

Luck: 22 total TDs & 25 total TOs, 55.5% completion ~42 passes per game

RG3: 23 total TD & 6 total TOs, 67.1% completion ~27 passes per game

I think its clear based on stats thus far RG3 is having the better rookie season - I'm still glad we have Luck though - IMO he is the better of the two, he just hasn't shown it yet.

We need to get Lucks attempts down toward 30 intsead of 50, then maybe the guy can start to become consistent!

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People will overlook completion percentage because in this offense it doesn't really matter. This is not a dink and dunk offense with high percentage throws. This is a vertical offense that is high risk and high reward. There are going to be incompletions and there are going to be turnovers. There are also going to be huge plays. Huge plays like the one Luck converted late in the game on Sunday to get the lead back to one score. Is the object of the game to have a high completion percentage or is the object to win the game?

I don't think you really have a clue how much is expected of Luck honestly. He IS the offense. His O line is garbage, his running game last week had a whopping 88 yards and Luck himself accounted for 33 of those. He has one great wideout, one castoff WR, 2 rookie WR and 2 rookie tightends. This is not a team that wins 8 games with stat lines like 13 of 21 for 165 yards passing.

Again, I hate all the comparison but I have to get you to understand.

Dink and dunk is usually the argument used by those who haven't looked at many games. The Redskins run a version of the West Coast Offense that incorporates a strong run game and the play action pass. The base of the WCO is the short pass. People think that it is a college offense because they use the pistol formation (which I never understood seeing as the Steelers use it too) with read options. People think he doesn't go through progressions just because his first read is usually open because they defense bite so hard on the play action. Why go through several reads when you first option is wide open? (the fallacy of people's argument regarding this). People talk about RG3 dinking and dunking but none of you (who use this argument) part your lips regarding Brady, Manning, Ryan, and Rodgers and the short throw. Mainly, because none of them are constantly being compared to Luck. But it also shows how objectivity is not use. Andrew Luck throws more passes that Griffin and Wilson but Luck and Griffin are tied for touchdown passes with Wilson leading all rookies in the category. Also, Griffin leads the league in TD passes over 20+ yards, so that kind of debunks the whole risk/reward argument.

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Again, I hate all the comparison but I have to get you to understand.

Dink and dunk is usually the argument used by those who haven't looked at many games. The Redskins run a version of the West Coast Offense that incorporates a strong run game and the play action pass. The base of the WCO is the short pass. People think that it is a college offense because they use the pistol formation (which I never understood seeing as the Steelers use it too) with read options. People think he doesn't go through progressions just because his first read is usually open because they defense bite so hard on the play action. Why go through several reads when you first option is wide open? (the fallacy of people's argument regarding this). People talk about RG3 dinking and dunking but none of you (who use this argument) part your lips regarding Brady, Manning, Ryan, and Rodgers and the short throw. Mainly, because none of them are constantly being compared to Luck. But it also shows how objectivity is not use. Andrew Luck throws more passes that Griffin and Wilson but Luck and Griffin are tied for touchdown passes with Wilson leading all rookies in the category. Also, Griffin leads the league in TD passes over 20+ yards, so that kind of debunks the whole risk/reward argument.

One more time, The reason why people are saying RG3 throws mostly short passes is because there were several skins fans(don't even remember which ones) that came here talking up RG3's completion % and using that as a basis for how he is better than Luck. Colts fans are just saying that you(or any other Skins fan) can not use Luck's lower % as a logical reasoning for why RG3 is better than Luck. That argument is absurd to say the least.

When Luck has to throw the ball 40+ times a game and so many of them are downfield passes, it's just common sense to realize that Luck is more susceptible to incompletions and interceptions. I, for one could care less what Brady's, Manning's, etc, etc, yardage per throw is because there are not fans of those other teams here telling us how their guy is better.

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Again, I hate all the comparison but I have to get you to understand.

Dink and dunk is usually the argument used by those who haven't looked at many games. The Redskins run a version of the West Coast Offense that incorporates a strong run game and the play action pass. The base of the WCO is the short pass. People think that it is a college offense because they use the pistol formation (which I never understood seeing as the Steelers use it too) with read options. People think he doesn't go through progressions just because his first read is usually open because they defense bite so hard on the play action. Why go through several reads when you first option is wide open? (the fallacy of people's argument regarding this). People talk about RG3 dinking and dunking but none of you (who use this argument) part your lips regarding Brady, Manning, Ryan, and Rodgers and the short throw. Mainly, because none of them are constantly being compared to Luck. But it also shows how objectivity is not use. Andrew Luck throws more passes that Griffin and Wilson but Luck and Griffin are tied for touchdown passes with Wilson leading all rookies in the category. Also, Griffin leads the league in TD passes over 20+ yards, so that kind of debunks the whole risk/reward argument.

So are you saying that the offense that Luck is running is not higher risk than the one Griffin is running? Sure, Brady and Manning throw a lot of short passes, but I think the difference is when they do it it is generally a check down to one of their final targets whereas Griffin's are normally designed passes for screens or slants. I don't think anyone is going to deny Griffin throws a good deep ball, and the fact he is constantly using play action also contributes to the TD passes over 20+ yards figure. But I don't think it can be denied that Luck is playing in a much riskier offense and is being asked to do much more than Griffin is as far as intermediate and long throws, as well as for his team's offense in general.

And as far as making reads, if your first read is wide open, then of course throw it to him. Especially if it is Garcon who has nobody within 10 yards of him (which has happened more than once in both Skins games I have watched this season and has resulted in big YAC). However, Griffin rarely needs to make a second read, and I think that is why people call it a "safe" offense or "dink and dunk" along with the fact they are generally short passes. When it is working it looks nice, and I think the Skins coaching just be given props for it. But you have to think that soon it will be figured out and Griffin isn't going to have wide open receivers to throwing to. And no, I am not saying he never makes a throw under pressure or doesn't fit it into a window, but it is much, MUCH less frequent than the frequency Luck must do so.

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One more time, The reason why people are saying RG3 throws mostly short passes is because there were several skins fans(don't even remember which ones) that came here talking up RG3's completion % and using that as a basis for how he is better than Luck. Colts fans are just saying that you(or any other Skins fan) can not use Luck's lower % as a logical reasoning for why RG3 is better than Luck. That argument is absurd to say the least.

When Luck has to throw the ball 40+ times a game and so many of them are downfield passes, it's just common sense to realize that Luck is more susceptible to incompletions and interceptions. I, for one could care less what Brady's, Manning's, etc, etc, yardage per throw is because there are not fans of those other teams here telling us how their guy is better.

The Redskins fans showed up long after the commercial, socks, action figures, and Luck is waaay better arguments. They didn't pop up to solely claim their quarterback's superiority-they appeared to defend him. Look at the numbers...no matter how you spin it, Griffin is playing better ball right now. No ifs ands or buts.

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The Redskins fans showed up long after the commercial, socks, action figures, and Luck is waaay better arguments. They didn't pop up to solely claim their quarterback's superiority-they appeared to defend him. Look at the numbers...no matter how you spin it, Griffin is playing better ball right now. No ifs ands or buts.

That maybe true, but there is a logical reason for that. This is a COLTS FAN FORUM. If Colts fans are/were hanging out on a Skins forum telling them Luck is better for blah blah blah reasons, then they would have every right to point out to them how wrong they are/were. I don't know about that though because I do not hang out on another teams forum that Im not a fan of.

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That maybe true, but there is a logical reason for that. This is a COLTS FAN FORUM. If Colts fans are/were hanging out on a Skins forum telling them Luck is better for blah blah blah reasons, then they would have every right to point out to them how wrong they are/were. I don't know about that though because I do not hang out on another teams forum that Im not a fan of.

True, but being a fan of another team does not mean that you can't acknowledge reality. I get that this is a Colts forum, but threads like this that go on and on with repetitive arguments about silly misconceptions is what fuels the fire that so many want to die out.

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I don't think Luck is much better than RG3. I think he's a little better. I think both teams got the right QB for their future. I wouldn't trade Luck now that we have him, and if I was a 'Skins fan, I wouldn't trade RG3 either.

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True, but being a fan of another team does not mean that you can't acknowledge reality. I get that this is a Colts forum, but threads like this that go on and on with repetitive arguments about silly misconceptions is what fuels the fire that so many want to die out.

But you keep posting in this thread and adding the fuel to the fire. Fans of teams can say whatever they would like about their team on their teams forum, whether right or wrong, or over the top. Im sure there are plenty of over the top ridiculous posts on the Skins forum and the Texans forum as well, but there is nothing wrong with that. That is what being a fan is all about, it only becomes a problem when other teams fans come to an opponents forum to start arguments.

Also, since I only recently started paying much attention to the forum again, I honestly do not know of some of the threads/posts that were made that started the influx of Skins fans to come running to the defense of their QB, but IMO it doesn't really matter. Most of what has been said about Lucks more attempts and more difficult offense compared to RG3's offense and the fact that it's based on short easy throws is completely accurate. It don't mean that one is better than the other at this point, but to completely dismiss the facts because of some stats is illogical.

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Again, I hate all the comparison but I have to get you to understand.

Dink and dunk is usually the argument used by those who haven't looked at many games. The Redskins run a version of the West Coast Offense that incorporates a strong run game and the play action pass. The base of the WCO is the short pass. People think that it is a college offense because they use the pistol formation (which I never understood seeing as the Steelers use it too) with read options. People think he doesn't go through progressions just because his first read is usually open because they defense bite so hard on the play action. Why go through several reads when you first option is wide open? (the fallacy of people's argument regarding this). People talk about RG3 dinking and dunking but none of you (who use this argument) part your lips regarding Brady, Manning, Ryan, and Rodgers and the short throw. Mainly, because none of them are constantly being compared to Luck. But it also shows how objectivity is not use. Andrew Luck throws more passes that Griffin and Wilson but Luck and Griffin are tied for touchdown passes with Wilson leading all rookies in the category. Also, Griffin leads the league in TD passes over 20+ yards, so that kind of debunks the whole risk/reward argument.

This has nothing to do with what i stated. I never said the Redskins were a dink and dunk offense.

My point was in regards to Andrew Luck and his completion percentage. Luck's average pass play travels farther then any QB in the league. He is throwing 40 times a game. His O line rarely allows for those routes to even materialize. To whine about his completion percentage while he wins games is ridiculous. The name of the game is not to see who has the best completion percentage, it's to win the game. You want to dismiss the fact that Luck won that game Sunday and harp on the fact that he was under 50 percent completion. Whatever floats your boat man. His turnovers sunday led to 3 points by the way, so it didn't do quite the damage you say it did.

You claim RG leads in TD passes over 20 yards. Is that 20 yards in the air or does that include catch and run? Does RG have more 20 yard completions overall? Whose average pass attempt travels farther? Would you say that the Skins offense is just as high risk as Bruce Arians offense? Love to hear your thoughts.

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But you keep posting in this thread and adding the fuel to the fire. Fans of teams can say whatever they would like about their team on their teams forum, whether right or wrong, or over the top. Im sure there are plenty of over the top ridiculous posts on the Skins forum and the Texans forum as well, but there is nothing wrong with that. That is what being a fan is all about, it only becomes a problem when other teams fans come to an opponents forum to start arguments.

Also, since I only recently started paying much attention to the forum again, I honestly do not know of some of the threads/posts that were made that started the influx of Skins fans to come running to the defense of their QB, but IMO it doesn't really matter. Most of what has been said about Lucks more attempts and more difficult offense compared to RG3's offense and the fact that it's based on short easy throws is completely accurate. It don't mean that one is better than the other at this point, but to completely dismiss the facts because of some stats is illogical.

It is better to have difference than general agreement all the time. How boring would that be? Myself and the Redskins fans are not the only ones who think this argument is ridiculous. I have seen Colts fans (Jason being one of them) who acknowledge that Griffin is indeed having the better season and there is no doubt about it. Numbers don't lie my friend. Griffin throws short passes? Cool. So does Brady, Manning, other elite quarterbacks as well. Griffin has beaten Newton's rushing record, but according to some, he wasn't going to last the whole season because of hits he took? He seems just fine to me. They run different offenses, yes, but Griffin runs his better. He doesn't have to put up 300 yard games and lead his team out of deep holes in order to win, and that's perfectly fine. At first the knock on Griffin was that he can put up numbers but winning is everything...because 12 was winning. Now that Griffin is winning too, what can people resort to? The numbers argument. Wins don't lie and stats don't either.

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It is better to have difference than general agreement all the time. How boring would that be? Myself and the Redskins fans are not the only ones who think this argument is ridiculous. I have seen Colts fans (Jason being one of them) who acknowledge that Griffin is indeed having the better season and there is no doubt about it. Numbers don't lie my friend. Griffin throws short passes? Cool. So does Brady, Manning, other elite quarterbacks as well. Griffin has beaten Newton's rushing record, but according to some, he wasn't going to last the whole season because of hits he took? He seems just fine to me. They run different offenses, yes, but Griffin runs his better. He doesn't have to put up 300 yard games and lead his team out of deep holes in order to win, and that's perfectly fine. At first the knock on Griffin was that he can put up numbers but winning is everything...because 12 was winning. Now that Griffin is winning too, what can people resort to? The numbers argument. Wins don't lie and stats don't either.

This is the problem. Thinking Griffin has had a better year is fine. Thinking that to claim Luck has had a better year is "ridiculous" is not fine.

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This is the problem. Thinking Griffin has had a better year is fine. Thinking that to claim Luck has had a better year is "ridiculous" is not fine.

I am referring to the argument as a whole, including the redundant spewings of the biased, not just the whole Grffin is playing better thing. It is okay to believe that 12 has had the better year, but again, this argument can be spun so many different ways.

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It is better to have difference than general agreement all the time. How boring would that be? Myself and the Redskins fans are not the only ones who think this argument is ridiculous. I have seen Colts fans (Jason being one of them) who acknowledge that Griffin is indeed having the better season and there is no doubt about it. Numbers don't lie my friend. Griffin throws short passes? Cool. So does Brady, Manning, other elite quarterbacks as well. Griffin has beaten Newton's rushing record, but according to some, he wasn't going to last the whole season because of hits he took? He seems just fine to me. They run different offenses, yes, but Griffin runs his better. He doesn't have to put up 300 yard games and lead his team out of deep holes in order to win, and that's perfectly fine. At first the knock on Griffin was that he can put up numbers but winning is everything...because 12 was winning. Now that Griffin is winning too, what can people resort to? The numbers argument. Wins don't lie and stats don't either.

You are right, many people see things different ways.

One writer plans to vote Luck for MVP.

Weird huh?

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It is better to have difference than general agreement all the time. How boring would that be? Myself and the Redskins fans are not the only ones who think this argument is ridiculous. I have seen Colts fans (Jason being one of them) who acknowledge that Griffin is indeed having the better season and there is no doubt about it. Numbers don't lie my friend. Griffin throws short passes? Cool. So does Brady, Manning, other elite quarterbacks as well. Griffin has beaten Newton's rushing record, but according to some, he wasn't going to last the whole season because of hits he took? He seems just fine to me. They run different offenses, yes, but Griffin runs his better. He doesn't have to put up 300 yard games and lead his team out of deep holes in order to win, and that's perfectly fine. At first the knock on Griffin was that he can put up numbers but winning is everything...because 12 was winning. Now that Griffin is winning too, what can people resort to? The numbers argument. Wins don't lie and stats don't either.

Once again, I DO NOT care what Manning, Brady, or any of the other QB's are doing. You say its a fact that RG3 is having a better yr. and it simply is not a fact. There are many many others that would completely disagree with you(and your buddy Jason). To not acknowledge that Luck has helped completely turn around a 2-14 team with a bunch of scrubs and castoffs is unbelievably and remarkably *ic.

Luck's leadership and his ability to forget mistakes that he has made and still lead this team to 5 4th qtr. comebacks is 2nd to none IMO, especially for a rookie. The only point I have tried repeatably to make is that RG3's offense is set up for him to be successful, whereas Luck has been asked to do things that 10 yr. veterans are asked to do, and he has shown the ability not only to do it, but to do it better than 3/4 of the QB's in the league.

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You are right, many people see things different ways.

One writer plans to vote Luck for MVP.

Weird huh?

Hmm. I'm not gonna even get into that one lol.

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Through 12 games>

Luck: 22 total TDs & 25 total TOs, 55.5% completion ~42 passes per game

RG3: 23 total TD & 6 total TOs, 67.1% completion ~27 passes per game

I think its clear based on stats thus far RG3 is having the better rookie season - I'm still glad we have Luck though - IMO he is the better of the two, he just hasn't shown it yet.

We need to get Lucks attempts down toward 30 intsead of 50, then maybe the guy can start to become consistent!

Just thought that I'd like to touch up on the topic highlighted. I agree that ideally, Luck should be throwing the ball about 30 times per game, and then perhaps we would see more consistency from Luck and more balance from our offense.

Here is the problem: I do not think that Arians wakes up the morning of the game and decides, "Hey, maybe today we should just let Luck sling it about 50 times. Yeah, that'll be our gameplan" (not that you think he does). Instead, like you and I, he wants a balanced and effective attack. Our O-line can't pass block or run block. Donald Brown averages 3.9YPC and Ballard averages 3.7YPC. So for the time being, our best offensive weapons are Luck, Wayne, Hilton, Allen, Avery, Fleener, and Ballard. Luck is pretty much asked to keep throwing to win games, and for the most part, although unfair to him, he's been delivering.

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Tweet from Mike Greenberg (MIKE AND MIKE IN THE MORNING)

Aaron Rodgers is not only the best QB in the NFL, he is the best player in the league. And I'm not sure RG3 isn't second. #Packers #Redskins

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I dont get this whole Griffin is unquestionably having a better rookie year idea

1.we still have 4 games to go

2.Both QB's have 17 touchdown passes

3.They are separated by 1 total touchdown (That includes run and and folks), does Luck have the rushing yards? of course not, everyone knows though that if he wanted he could run plenty of yards if it was a part of our offense though

4.Luck also has 216 yards on 44 carries so he can run pretty good as well

5.Luck has a 936 yard passing yards lead on Griffin

6.Luck has been forced to throw 178 more times then Griffin with a O Coordinator who refuses to use Lucks strengths as well as because we have no O Line

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Once again, I DO NOT care what Manning, Brady, or any of the other QB's are doing. You say its a fact that RG3 is having a better yr. and it simply is not a fact. There are many many others that would completely disagree with you(and your buddy Jason). To not acknowledge that Luck has helped completely turn around a 2-14 team around with a bunch of scrubs and castoffs is unbelievably and remarkably *ic.

Luck's leadership and his ability to forget mistakes that he has made and still lead this team to 5 4th qtr. comebacks is 2nd to none IMO, especially for a rookie. The only point I have tried repeatably to make is that RG3's offense is set up for him to be successful, whereas Luck has been asked to do things that 10 yr. veterans are asked to do, and he has shown the ability not only to do it, but to do it better than 3/4 of the QB's in the league.

Okay, and this is where you lose me. A lot of people around here seem to believe that 12 can do no wrong, and when he does it's just "rookie mistakes". The Colts got rid of a lot of people from last year. This is not the same team. Plug in Schaub or Rivers or heck probably even Griffin and we would probably see the same results or better. The Colts are not winning solely because of 12...I don't know why so many seem to think that this is the case. I've even seen some say "Oh, Peyton would never survive behind this offensive line" when I think that is nonsense. He would get rid of the ball faster and have a lot less turnovers too, and who knows, the record could possibly be better than it is now. To say that he is doing things better than 3/4s of the rest of the league is extreme as well. He is good but he still makes mistakes, and I would not say that he is better than that many quarterbacks in this league. Not yet.

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Tweet from Mike Greenberg (MIKE AND MIKE IN THE MORNING)

Aaron Rodgers is not only the best QB in the NFL, he is the best player in the league. And I'm not sure RG3 isn't second. #Packers #Redskins

This is what I'm talking about. For a skins fan to post this on a Colts forum is doing nothing but trying to spark an argument.

BTW, Mike Greenburg is an (*). He wouldn't know football if it jumped up and slapped the crap out of him.

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This is what I'm talking about. For a skins fan to post this on a Colts forum is doing nothing but trying to spark an argument.

BTW, Mike Greenburg is an (*). He wouldn't know football if it jumped up and slapped the crap out of him.

*Mike Greenberg says 12 is possibly the second best player in the league* " Hey, that guy is great! He always knows what he's talking about. ;)" Yes, I have seen that sort of logic here. I'm going to let the poster defend himself but he is not trying to start an argument I'm sure; This entire thread is argument enough for this topic.

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