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Greenoughrunner

Luck vs rg3

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I certainly don't have a problem pointing out Luck's mistakes. He's not perfect, nobody is. Peyton Manning threw 6 picks in one game. He threw 3 in one qtr just this year. Everyone makes mistakes. I'm not saying you have no right to point out mistakes, however, it seems like thats all you want to do and you want to push aside the positives. At the same time, you seem to be in love with Griffin, who is playing on a more talented team and putting up a worse record.

Again, the Colts have 8 wins, 5 of them are a direct result of game winning drives engineered by Luck. You can point out all the flaws you want, the bottom line is that when the game was on the line, Andrew Luck carried this team to victory. He's playing behind a pathcwork and bad O line, 2 rookie tightends, rookie receivers, mediocre at best running game. The Colts won 2 games last year, the biggest addition to the team was at the QB position, they are now 8-4. I'd say he's doing more then you are willing to give him credit for.

Great post :thmup:

Andrew Luck is "our" quarterback and more than proved himself yesterday that he is more than "just a rookie". Coming on these controversial threads and pointing out his flaws is doing nothing but stirring up more conflict. Let's let it go, appreciate both of their accomplishments and MOVE ON!

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Andrew luck has led 5 game winning drives. In all likelihood will shatter cam Newton's passing yardage record. He is about to lead a team that had 2 wins last year and was projected to pick top 5 in the draft again into the playoffs

No 1st overall qb has ever led their team into the playoffs in their first year. Does he turn over the ball a little much? Yes. We are seeing him thrown down field often. He is making big plays reularly . The deep ball to Brazil was beautiful.

The game winning drive argument is funny to me. Yes its awesome and you can't take nothing away from Luck he is clutch if the games close at the end. But the reason the argument for most 4th qtr game winning drives is because the elite of the elite qb's like Peyton or Brady beat down bad teams. So maybe Luck has more game winning drives but the other qbs might not have as many because they are playing great for 4 qtrs and beating the heck out of teams. Tsarquise is right Luck has been inconsistant, If he takes the checkdown more often and doesnt force balls causing turnovers the Colts would be dominating games. I agree it doesnt matter as long as you win but come playoff time if you turn the ball over 3 plus times your not gonna beat Brady or peyton or Shaub or Big Ben heck you wont even beat Daulton. Its crazy how brilliant he was in the final 5 minutes but how bad he was in the first 3 qtrs. I saw a stat where his QBR through the first 3 Qtrs was like 11.3...the last 5 minutes it was like 137 it was an incredible difference.

I just found this i thought you colts fans would enjoy it. I loved Techmo Bowl as a kid heres the Luck Avery play

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/12/03/andrew-luck-donnie-avery-tecmo-bowl-lions-win/

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I certainly don't have a problem pointing out Luck's mistakes. He's not perfect, nobody is. Peyton Manning threw 6 picks in one game. He threw 3 in one qtr just this year. Everyone makes mistakes. I'm not saying you have no right to point out mistakes, however, it seems like thats all you want to do and you want to push aside the positives. At the same time, you seem to be in love with Griffin, who is playing on a more talented team and putting up a worse record.

Again, the Colts have 8 wins, 5 of them are a direct result of game winning drives engineered by Luck. You can point out all the flaws you want, the bottom line is that when the game was on the line, Andrew Luck carried this team to victory. He's playing behind a pathcwork and bad O line, 2 rookie tightends, rookie receivers, mediocre at best running game. The Colts won 2 games last year, the biggest addition to the team was at the QB position, they are now 8-4. I'd say he's doing more then you are willing to give him credit for.

Idk man. The whole team has pretty much been revamped. The coaching, the management, the schemes, the oline, receivers, DB's etc.

Does Luck have something to with the wins?

Yes. Of course.

But it seems he is being blown out of proportion. I mean as soon as the Colts started losing last year, the "suck for Luck" mantra was being yelled.

And I'm not in love with RG3. But I think he's definitely good. And he is definitely in the same class as Luck. The couple of games i have seen him play and the highlights i have seen, are impressive. Then I look at the stats and those are impressive too. That's when i think to my self "wow this kid is better than people gave him credit for."

There were Colts fans saying they would cease being fans of the Colts if we had drafted RG3 over Luck. It was as if Luck was on a whole other level. There were fans wishing we lost that Jags game last year so we could get Luck. To the majority, Luck was the undisputed #1 draft pic and RG3 wasn't as good. I don't watch college football so i was ignorant about both players but after seeing them both play in the NFL, I feel there should have been a little more consideration for who the Number one Pick Should have been. And I think RG3 MIGHT actually be better. We will see. He's playing great right now. He doesn't look like a rookie. Luck does.

I just hope that starting over with Luck was the best option.

We all have opinions man and IMO I think RG3 is as every bit as good as Luck and maybe better. We will see. Time will tell.

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Idk man. The whole team has pretty much been revamped. The coaching, the management, the schemes, the oline, receivers, DB's etc.

Does Luck have something to with the wins?

Yes. Of course.

But it seems he is being blown out of proportion. I mean as soon as the Colts started losing last year, the "suck for Luck" mantra was being yelled.

And I'm not in love with RG3. But I think he's definitely good. And he is definitely in the same class as Luck. The couple of games i have seen him play and the highlights i have seen, are impressive. Then I look at the stats and those are impressive too. That's when i think to my self "wow this kid is better than people gave him credit for."

There were Colts fans saying they would cease being fans of the Colts if we had drafted RG3 over Luck. It was as if Luck was on a whole other level. There were fans wishing we lost that Jags game last year so we could get Luck. To the majority, Luck was the undisputed #1 draft pic and RG3 wasn't as good. I don't watch college football so i was ignorant about both players but after seeing them both play in the NFL, I feel there should have been a little more consideration for who the Number one Pick Should have been. And I think RG3 MIGHT actually be better. We will see. He's playing great right now. He doesn't look like a rookie. Luck does.

I just hope that starting over with Luck was the best option.

We all have opinions man and IMO I think RG3 is as every bit as good as Luck and maybe better. We will see. Time will tell.

Well said. :thmup:

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Russell Wilson...

*paradigm

shifted*

lol

But seriously, this rookie class is impressing the crap outta me.

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Wilson's an interesting case. He has the best team by far of any of the other rookie QBs and is certainly leaned on less than Luck and Griffin are as a result but he's still awfully impressive in action.

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Wilson's an interesting case. He has the best team by far of any of the other rookie QBs and is certainly leaned on less than Luck and Griffin are as a result but he's still awfully impressive in action.

Something that was always overlooked with Wilson was he effectively ran a pro style offense in college. I mean, he was good. I guess in his case, 4" cost him millions of dollars but I believe that he can play at this level anywhere.

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The game winning drive argument is funny to me. Yes its awesome and you can't take nothing away from Luck he is clutch if the games close at the end. But the reason the argument for most 4th qtr game winning drives is because the elite of the elite qb's like Peyton or Brady beat down bad teams. So maybe Luck has more game winning drives but the other qbs might not have as many because they are playing great for 4 qtrs and beating the heck out of teams. Tsarquise is right Luck has been inconsistant, If he takes the checkdown more often and doesnt force balls causing turnovers the Colts would be dominating games. I agree it doesnt matter as long as you win but come playoff time if you turn the ball over 3 plus times your not gonna beat Brady or peyton or Shaub or Big Ben heck you wont even beat Daulton. Its crazy how brilliant he was in the final 5 minutes but how bad he was in the first 3 qtrs. I saw a stat where his QBR through the first 3 Qtrs was like 11.3...the last 5 minutes it was like 137 it was an incredible difference.

I just found this i thought you colts fans would enjoy it. I loved Techmo Bowl as a kid heres the Luck Avery play

http://www.thebiglea...bowl-lions-win/

The elite of the elite also have very good teams. There teams did not win 2 games last year and blow the entire thing up. Not really a fair comparison.

The Colts are not a very talented team, to say that if Luck would just take a checkdown or not force a throw that they would then dominate teams is laughable. The Colts will be in close games all year, they are not that talented. Heck, even in the late years with Manning this team was in close game after close game. Take a look back at 2009 when Manning led several 4th qtr come from behind wins.

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Russell Wilson...

*paradigm

shifted*

lol

But seriously, this rookie class is impressing the crap outta me.

Lol yeah Wilson is playing good too.

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The elite of the elite also have very good teams. There teams did not win 2 games last year and blow the entire thing up. Not really a fair comparison.

The Colts are not a very talented team, to say that if Luck would just take a checkdown or not force a throw that they would then dominate teams is laughable. The Colts will be in close games all year, they are not that talented. Heck, even in the late years with Manning this team was in close game after close game. Take a look back at 2009 when Manning led several 4th qtr come from behind wins.

I think our team is actually quite talented.

Good linebackers, good rushers in Freeney and Mathis. Good safety in Bethea. Two good, young tight ends. Good receivers. Good quarteback.

The o-line is better than years past.

Id say the cornerbacks are better too...

Not to mention Vick Ballard and Brown...

You act as if the team is devoid of talent. Except Luck of course. :)

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The game winning drive argument is funny to me. Yes its awesome and you can't take nothing away from Luck he is clutch if the games close at the end. But the reason the argument for most 4th qtr game winning drives is because the elite of the elite qb's like Peyton or Brady beat down bad teams. So maybe Luck has more game winning drives but the other qbs might not have as many because they are playing great for 4 qtrs and beating the heck out of teams. Tsarquise is right Luck has been inconsistant, If he takes the checkdown more often and doesnt force balls causing turnovers the Colts would be dominating games. I agree it doesnt matter as long as you win but come playoff time if you turn the ball over 3 plus times your not gonna beat Brady or peyton or Shaub or Big Ben heck you wont even beat Daulton. Its crazy how brilliant he was in the final 5 minutes but how bad he was in the first 3 qtrs. I saw a stat where his QBR through the first 3 Qtrs was like 11.3...the last 5 minutes it was like 137 it was an incredible difference.

I just found this i thought you colts fans would enjoy it. I loved Techmo Bowl as a kid heres the Luck Avery play

http://www.thebiglea...bowl-lions-win/

The Elite of the Elite (Peyton Manning) a name that you used in your argument for not having many 4th quarter comeback wins has atleast 35 of them. This is at minimum second place with the most comeback wins ever in the 4th quarter. (Couldn't find the most up to date stats so I have him at 35). http://nbcsports.msn.../ns/sports-nfl/ These are the types of comments that drive people nuts here. If you are going to argue please make sure you know the statistics or look them up before you post.

Even Elite QB's have to earn their wins. As its always been stated. "Any given Sunday"

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The elite of the elite also have very good teams. There teams did not win 2 games last year and blow the entire thing up. Not really a fair comparison.

The Colts are not a very talented team, to say that if Luck would just take a checkdown or not force a throw that they would then dominate teams is laughable. The Colts will be in close games all year, they are not that talented. Heck, even in the late years with Manning this team was in close game after close game. Take a look back at 2009 when Manning led several 4th qtr come from behind wins.

Yeah but the elite of the elite do not turn over the ball as much as he does. It's not that hes not a good QB I think he tries to make to much happen.

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The Elite of the Elite (Peyton Manning) a name that you used in your argument for not having many 4th quarter comeback wins has atleast 35 of them. This is at minimum second place with the most comeback wins ever in the 4th quarter. (Couldn't find the most up to date stats so I have him at 35). http://nbcsports.msn.../ns/sports-nfl/ These are the types of comments that drive people nuts here. If you are going to argue please make sure you know the statistics or look them up before you post.

Even Elite QB's have to earn their wins. As its always been stated. "Any given Sunday"

Of course I understand that those QB's have 4th Qtr comebacks and I do understand Peyton has atleast 35 that wasn't my point. My point is thats the reason alot of people are using for Luck being a great QB and lead candidate for ROY. When if he didnt force the ball so much and turn it over so much there would be no need for the 4th Qtr comeback. And my other point was those Qb's rarely have to comeback against the bottom feeders of the league.

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I saw that game yesterday. I will say this. I still do think that Luck turns the ball over WAY too much. He needs to fix that.

That said, the guy is a stud. Five 4th quarter comebacks says alot. Yardage totals dont mean much. With as much as he is throwing the ball, he should break the rookie record.

The guy is clutch, I will give him that.

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I think our team is actually quite talented.

Good linebackers, good rushers in Freeney and Mathis. Good safety in Bethea. Two good, young tight ends. Good receivers. Good quarteback.

The o-line is better than years past.

Id say the cornerbacks are better too...

Not to mention Vick Ballard and Brown...

You act as if the team is devoid of talent. Except Luck of course. :)

Alot of your fans are thinking just because you were 2-14 last year that means this year your team sucks so it has to be Luck and only Luck for the reason youre winning. Things change quickly in the NFL. If you cant' see your WR's are pretty darn good i don't know what to tell you. Reggie Wayne is Reggie Wayne future HOF'er TY Hilton is becoming a huge playmaker and a wonderful find by the front office. I think your line is better than advertised as well. The deep TD pass Luck threw he had all the time in the world.

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I think our team is actually quite talented.

Good linebackers, good rushers in Freeney and Mathis. Good safety in Bethea. Two good, young tight ends. Good receivers. Good quarteback.

The o-line is better than years past.

Id say the cornerbacks are better too...

Not to mention Vick Ballard and Brown...

You act as if the team is devoid of talent. Except Luck of course. :)

The O line and the secondary are pretty much awful. But what can you expect from a group made up of almost entirely castoffs from other teams becuase they weren't good enough? They are not better then last year and even if they were, that doesn't mean they are good because they were terrible to begin with.

Donnie Avery was so bad he got cut by the Titans last year, but has been servicable with Luck.

Last years team had more talent and went 2-14 because they lacked a QB.

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I find it comical how bad Skins fans and RG3 fanboys are trying so desperately to get Colts fans on a Colts forum to agree with them that RG3 is the better QB. Its been pointed out repeatably now that RG3's stats are so good because of the offense he plays in with all the short passes. That is not his fault and he has done a great job doing what he is asked to do, but Luck is asked to throw the ball downfield and takes many more chances on many more attempts.

It's only logical to know he is going to have a worse completion percentage and more interceptions. Has he thrown more Int's than I would like? Of course, but he makes the plays when they are important and he has led this team to 8 wins in a season when most thought 5 wins was pushing the limits of their talent. At the end of the day and at the end of the season wins and losses is all that matters.

I think RG3 will win ROY because he plays in a bigger market and he has the media slobbering all over him. I certainly do not agree with it and IMO, it is a no brainer that Luck has done way more for his team than RG3 has for his. I know Skins fans won't agree with that, but then again, Im not on their forum trying my hardest to make my case.

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Last years team had more talent and went 2-14 because they lacked a QB.

The incompetence and stubbornness of the coaching staff also had a lot to do with last years record.

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The OL shows up sometimes but under Arians scheme with the routes taking so long to develop the way the pocket collapses so fast if the Colts didn't have a mobile QB it would be chaos. The good part about this team is it can get SUBSTANTIALLY better in all dimensions.

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I find it comical how bad Skins fans and RG3 fanboys are trying so desperately to get colts fans on a Colts forum to agree with them that RG3 is the better QB.

The majority of rg3 fans i see posting aren't trying to get Luck fans to agree that rg3 is better than Luck but rather that rg3 is better than what some of the Luckolytes try to make him out to be with their over the top criticisms, often times inaccurate information and foolish comparisons of rg3 to guys like vick.

What i find comical is that the same luckolytes that are complaining are the reason the rg3 fanboys are here in the first place. If you all would just shut up about rg3 and enjoy our qb then the posts youre complaining about would largely stop.

But thats ok. Keep stating your opinions. Then theyll keep stating theirs. Youll keep complaining. Names will be called, jabs will be thrown. Round and round the ferris wheel goes.

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Alot of your fans are thinking just because you were 2-14 last year that means this year your team sucks so it has to be Luck and only Luck for the reason youre winning. Things change quickly in the NFL. If you cant' see your WR's are pretty darn good i don't know what to tell you. Reggie Wayne is Reggie Wayne future HOF'er TY Hilton is becoming a huge playmaker and a wonderful find by the front office. I think your line is better than advertised as well. The deep TD pass Luck threw he had all the time in the world.

I can agree that our defense as a whole has been a pleasant surprise this season. It has played reasonably well outside of maybe the Pats game (granted Luck's pick 6's made that one even worse). However, I will not agree with your assessment of our O-Line. The O-line has been borderline putrid. That is what makes Luck's performances so impressive. The O-line is constantly collapsing around him and yet he is still making plays. He also is occassionally throwing an INT because of it. Even if he doesn't get pressured, after he gets smacked around for two or three quarters he tries to fit the football into windows he shouldn't. If the Colts had even an average O-line, I think Luck's stats would be infinitely better. As others have also pointed out, Arians' play calling sometimes does not help when he expects such a line to hold up for seconds on end for a deep ball.

And what deep pass are you talking about exactly? The next to last TD pass he threw to Brazill he was scrambling out of the pocket, had to throw it on the run, and still got hammered at the end of the play. Sure, he gets some time to throw once in awhile, but all in all the line is terrible.

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I can agree that our defense as a whole has been a pleasant surprise this season. It has played reasonably well outside of maybe the Pats game (granted Luck's pick 6's made that one even worse). However, I will not agree with your assessment of our O-Line. The O-line has been borderline putrid. That is what makes Luck's performances so impressive. The O-line is constantly collapsing around him and yet he is still making plays. He also is occassionally throwing an INT because of it. Even if he doesn't get pressured, after he gets smacked around for two or three quarters he tries to fit the football into windows he shouldn't. If the Colts had even an average O-line, I think Luck's stats would be infinitely better. As others have also pointed out, Arians' play calling sometimes does not help when he expects such a line to hold up for seconds on end for a deep ball.

And what deep pass are you talking about exactly? The next to last TD pass he threw to Brazill he was scrambling out of the pocket, had to throw it on the run, and still got hammered at the end of the play. Sure, he gets some time to throw once in awhile, but all in all the line is terrible.

No I was talking about the TD pass to Fleener. and I know your O-line is bad i said not as bad as some of the Colts fans make it out to be. I think you have a better line than the packers Cowboys and Eagles...there O-lines litterally are Putrid.

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I find it comical how bad Skins fans and RG3 fanboys are trying so desperately to get Colts fans on a Colts forum to agree with them that RG3 is the better QB. Its been pointed out repeatably now that RG3's stats are so good because of the offense he plays in with all the short passes. That is not his fault and he has done a great job doing what he is asked to do, but Luck is asked to throw the ball downfield and takes many more chances on many more attempts.

I can't speak for all Skins fans but personally I've never posted that RG3 is better than Luck.

This is a Colts forum after all and I respect it as such.

Now otoh, I will occassionally defend Robert when I see posts I feel are inaccurate.

Like for instance, your belief that Robert's stats are padded because he throws so many short passes

This is from an ESPN Insider Article.

Start with those short throws.

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

If you claim the Redskins have RG3 pedaling in an offense built around the short throw -- quick slants, quick digs, across-the-formation shots -- then you might as well say Brady is being pushed while utilizing training wheels.

Then consider the "running QB" critique.

So far in 2013, of RG3's league-leading 100 carries, a full 63 of them were designed runs. That means through 11 games, and 367 drop backs, Griffin has actually chosen to scramble only 37 times. According to Pro Football Focus, Griffin is pressured at a somewhat scary rate of 35.1 percent of drop backs thanks to Washington's offensive line. Think of it this way: RG3 has seen pressure at an almost identical rate as Luck, and has scrambled on average about one more time per game. (Again: with 4.41 speed.) Given his ridiculous talents as a runner, the stronger case to be made is that RG3 is actually showing restraint as a runner, not too much confidence in his legs. His Run EPA is lower than even Jay Cutler's.

All of those points make the case that RG3's success does stand up to basic critiques. But there is an even greater aspect working in his favor from a long-range standpoint.

Griffin is, without overstating it, an extraordinarily accurate NFL QB. Not for his age, but for a thrower of the football, period. Evaluators will tell you that accuracy is probably the single greatest indicator of a QB's ability to succeed because it encapsulates everything. It's not just ball placement, it's timing; it's the ability to hit the right route by working through reads, throwing to the open man and, when you do, hitting him in a location that allows him to gain yards after the catch. And to even be consistently accurate, you have to do so many other things well, all starting between the ears. In baseball terms, it's the difference between control and command. Good control means you can throw strikes consistently; good command means you're painting corners and with proper depth on the pitches. RG3 has command.

According to PFF, RG3's accuracy percentage (which accounts for drops, throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB is hit while throwing) is at an NFL-leading 80.5 percent. The lead itself is impressive, but to put that number in context, since PFF began tracking the stat in 2008, only Rodgers has a higher rate -- 80.6 percent. In other words, RG3 through 11 games is as accurate a passer as we've seen in the NFL over a five-year period when virtually every passing record has been torched. Among rookies in that time, Ryan has the best full-season mark, at 74.6 percent. How deterministic is that number? This season, the guys directly trailing RG3 are Rodgers, Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Matt Schaub and Brady. Pretty good company.

RG3 runs, but much of it has been by design.

And RG3 isn't just accurate because he's throwing short. On throws of more than 20 yards, his accuracy percentage is 52.2 percent, third highest in the NFL. According to ESPN Stats & Info, he's completed 66.7 percent of those 20-plus-yard throws, second highest in the NFL. And RG3 actually throws downfield plenty next to his peers. On intermediate throws (10-20 yards) he's completed 42 passes, more than Brady or Rodgers. This goes back to last season at Baylor, where coaches Art Briles and Phil Montgomery tinkered with his delivery on the deep ball. His 72.4 percent completion percentage last season wasn't just pure college offensive gimmickry -- his 10.7 yards per attempt led the nation.

The accuracy stands up under another level of scrutiny -- pressure. Against five or more rushers, RG3 has completed 67.4 percent of passes, a higher rate than the impossible-to-blitz Peyton Manning. His accuracy percentage under pressure is an obscene 81.9 percent, an NFL high.

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The majority of rg3 fans i see posting aren't trying to get Luck fans to agree that rg3 is better than Luck but rather that rg3 is better than what some of the Luckolytes try to make him out to be with their over the top criticisms, often times inaccurate information and foolish comparisons of rg3 to guys like vick.

What i find comical is that the same luckolytes that are complaining are the reason the rg3 fanboys are here in the first place. If you all would just shut up about rg3 and enjoy our qb then the posts youre complaining about would largely stop.

But thats ok. Keep stating your opinions. Then theyll keep stating theirs. Youll keep complaining. Names will be called, jabs will be thrown. Round and round the ferris wheel goes.

I get the overwhelming feeling that you somehow get your jollies on trying to sound as if you think you are more intelligent than others and your opinion is always the right one. Call me a "Luckolyte" all you please, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the success Luck has had here so far and I see absolutely no wrong in defending our team and players on a Colts forum.

I also stayed away from this forum for quite awhile and only recently started posting again regularly. I kept up here but didn't post. I have seen the RG3 fanboys here for quite sometime telling Colts fans how their guy was better. Like I have said now repeatably, thats great that they feel that way about their guy, but they are the one's on another teams forum posting their opinions. They shouldn't feel as if we need to agree with them. That is just utter nonsense.

I know pretty well that you did not want Luck to begin with because we had many an argument over that topic going back to early last season. Just because I turned out to be right about the Colts picking him and him actually living up to his billing, isn't any reason to hold a grudge against me. Just learn to love and accept our new QB and don't be afraid of defending him.

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The OL shows up sometimes but under Arians scheme with the routes taking so long to develop the way the pocket collapses so fast if the Colts didn't have a mobile QB it would be chaos. The good part about this team is it can get SUBSTANTIALLY better in all dimensions.

With all the coaching jobs about to be open do you fear Arians will leave and the affects it could have on Andrew? They say he has a photographic memory so me personally I think he would move on fine but I just want to hear Colts fans thoughts. Do you think it would suck for him to finally start understanding the offense and then have to start over?

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I can't speak for all Skins fans but personally I've never posted that RG3 is better than Luck.

This is a Colts forum after all and I respect it as such.

Now otoh, I will occassionally defend Robert when I see posts I feel are inaccurate.

Like for instance, your belief that Robert's stats are padded because he throws so many short passes

This is from an ESPN Insider Article.

I have already seen that article and it doesn't change anything. What I have tried to repeatably say, is that RG3's offense is totally different and he isn't asked to throw downfield nearly as much or the amount of attempts. Most of the Skins fans want to point out Lucks completion percentage is not nearly as high as Griffins. That is very true, but if one looks at the amount of attempts and how much Luck is asked to throw downfield, it is simple logic to come to the conclusion that those reasons alone are why his % is much lower. This is all I have been trying to say the entire time.

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With all the coaching jobs about to be open do you fear Arians will leave and the affects it could have on Andrew? They say he has a photographic memory so me personally I think he would move on fine but I just want to hear Colts fans thoughts. Do you think it would suck for him to finally start understanding the offense and then have to start over?

Honestly, I don't see Arians leaving. And if he does, I don't think it will affect Luck's growth that much. Arians is older, and already contemplated retirement once after being let go by the Steelers. Hard to see him getting serious consideration from a team that is looking for long term stability at the HC position. While his clock management has been horrendous at times as interim and he calls too many deep routes, I think overall he has had a positive effect on Luck, but I don't think Luck needs him to continue to grow. Luck will know any playbook that is given to him.

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Each QB's stats are a product of the offense they run. Luck was given an Indianapolis team with a below average running game, and a very suspect o-line, Griffin has the opposite.

Luck has to throw the ball 30-40+ times a game for us to win, the redskins don't.

Judging these two QB's by their stats is horribly inaccurate.

Andrew Luck is leading this team to a winning season and come-from behind wins, and when luck needs to be great, he is just that, Great. I don't give a darn what any stat sheet says, If anyone here would rather have RGIII in the 4th quarter down by 5 with 80 yards to go, no timeouts and less than 1 min to play over Andrew Luck you must be crazy.

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If you were forming a team and you had to select RG3 or Luck as your QB, why would you select Luck over RG3? What soes Luck do better?

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If you were forming a team and you had to select RG3 or Luck as your QB, why would you select Luck over RG3? What soes Luck do better?

Luck,

He wins games.

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Redskins running back Alfred Morris is on pace to get 1,000 +yards this season. Robert Griffin will lead all QB's in rushing and it won't be close. You have to have a pretty good Oline to do that. Common sense. The NFL channel even added Morris to their possible ROY candidates. The Redskins' superior line play and run game, gives Griffin the luxury of not HAVING to throw as much and when he does, he is better protected resulting in less interceptions. Luck is routinely ravaged in the pocket, and his best back weekly gets 40-50 yards a game. Telecasts show, like the Pats game, where Luck had to change his arm angle because of Vince Wolfork right in his face. Luck could run 50% more than he does (and who would blame him) but he's trying to be a pocket passer and make the throw...to his detriment, lots of times.

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I get the overwhelming feeling that you somehow get your jollies on trying to sound as if you think you are more intelligent than others and your opinion is always the right one. Call me a "Luckolyte" all you please, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the success Luck has had here so far and I see absolutely no wrong in defending our team and players on a Colts forum.

And I get the overwhelming feeling that you are the same way in regards to your opinion always being the right one and you treat those who disagree with you with a flagrantly condescending attitude.

Now that said, I was not necessarily referring to you as a Luckolyte, but rather those who think his poo doesn't stink, that any mistake he makes is clearly somebody else's fault, that there's no way the colts had any chance at being successful if they had not drafted Luck and that the mere idea that RG3 might also be a good QB is simply absurd. If you feel that way then yes, I would consider you a Luckolyte. For the most part though, your comments on him have been fairly objective, which I would not say about the people who I consider to be Luckolytes.

I also have thoroughly enjoyed the success the Colts, and Luck, have had so far this season and I'm very optimistic about the future. I also see nothing wrong with defending your team or your player when provoked. But guess what, that's the same thing that many of the RG3 fans are doing. Simply defending their player. Yes this is a Colts forum but there are no membership restrictions. This is not a "colts fans only" website. it is catered to Colts fans but is not strictly limited to them. There's no reason why reasonable Colts fans and reasonable fans of other teams can't get along. There's no reason we can't have civil debate without resorting to name calling and condescension when it comes to someone who has a different opinion or point of view.

I also stayed away from this forum for quite awhile and only recently started posting again regularly. I kept up here but didn't post. I have seen the RG3 fanboys here for quite sometime telling Colts fans how their guy was better. Like I have said now repeatably, thats great that they feel that way about their guy, but they are the one's on another teams forum posting their opinions. They shouldn't feel as if we need to agree with them. That is just utter nonsense.

Again, yes there are a few who are obnoxious but there are many Colts fans who are as well. The majority of RG3 fans that I've personally seen posting are merely trying to defend their guy. That's their prerogative and this is an open site. For the ones who get on your nerves...ignore them. With those that can have civil, friendly discussion, try doing that...or ignore them. Who cares really. But all you're doing with your repeated comments about them is adding fuel to the fire that you want so desperately to go out.

I know pretty well that you did not want Luck to begin with because we had many an argument over that topic going back to early last season. Just because I turned out to be right about the Colts picking him and him actually living up to his billing, isn't any reason to hold a grudge against me. Just learn to love and accept our new QB and don't be afraid of defending him.

I'm not holding a grudge against you for that. If I have any type of grudge against you it's for the almighty attitude you constantly post with and the condescending way you treat those who disagree with you. I am much more sold on Luck now than I was last year when watching him at Stanford. I had questions about him. There were things I had not seen him able to do that I was not certain he would be able to do if required, primarily whether or not he could have the same success without a highly prolific running game and elite level pass protection as he had with those things. The only time I saw him in a game where his running game was completely shut down was in the 3rd quarter of the game vs. Notre Dame and during that quarter, he was only able to move the Cardinal offense for ~30 yards. I had questions about him and I had concerns but since coming into the NFL he has largely answered the majority of those and I freely admit that. I am glad he's our QB, though unlike many, I don't think he was the ONLY option we had. I don't think the sun rises and sets by Andrew Luck like some people act like but I do think he is going to be a great QB. If you want to fault me for not buying into the hype just because everyone else said so then be my guest. However, I prefer to see things with my own eyes before truly buying in myself.

Yes, there have been a few RG3 fanboys who try to stir up trouble, but there are also a few Texans fanboys who do that, Patriots fanboys and fans of any other player or team that has any type of rivalry with the Colts and/or

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If you were forming a team and you had to select RG3 or Luck as your QB, why would you select Luck over RG3? What soes Luck do better?

Instead of Luck, what if it were Peyton Manning and RG3 and the Colts selected Manning? If Redskins fans were saying Griffin was better than PM (because of his interceptions which he did have), how would you react? Not good, I bet.

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I can't speak for all Skins fans but personally I've never posted that RG3 is better than Luck.

This is a Colts forum after all and I respect it as such.

Now otoh, I will occassionally defend Robert when I see posts I feel are inaccurate.

Like for instance, your belief that Robert's stats are padded because he throws so many short passes

This is from an ESPN Insider Article.

11/5/12

It's fairly simple to compare Griffin to Luck because they both play the same position. Griffin's raw stats (65.6 percent completion rate, 7.6 yards per attempt, eight touchdowns, three interceptions) are clearly superior to Luck's (56.5 percent, 7.2 ypa, 10 TDs, 8 INTs), but whenFootball Outsiders' passing rankings are updated Tuesday afternoon, you'll find Luck's name above Griffin's by a significant margin. That's largely because Luck has thrown a lot of deep passes, while Griffin has mostly thrown small stuff.

Nearly half of Griffin's passes (48 percent) have been thrown to receivers within five yards of the line of scrimmage. That's 10 percent higher than Luck's rate of short passes. On the other hand, 23 percent of Luck's passes have traveled at least 16 yards past the line of scrimmage, while only 16 percent of Griffin's throws have gone that far. As a result, while Luck has completed 18 more passes than Griffin, Griffin actually has 24 more failed completions -- completions that failed to gain significant yardage toward a new set of downs -- than Luck.

That's not the only reason Luck outranks Griffin at FO. Although Luck has dropped back 73 more times than Griffin, RG3 has given up 20 sacks to Luck's 19. Luck has also played a more challenging slate of defenses, especially in Week 1. While Griffin began his professional career against the Saints (last in FO's pass defense rankings), Luck premiered against the Chicago Bears, far and away the league's best defense. If we throw out Week 1, Luck leads Griffin in yards per pass play (including sacks), 6.5 to 6.2.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8595360/nfl-handicapping-rookie-year-race-robert-griffin-iii-andrew-luck-doug-martin

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There's no reason we can't have civil debate without resorting to name calling and condescension when it comes to someone who has a different opinion or point of view.

You just described yourself. You came across condescending and you name called people here Luckolytes.

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And I get the overwhelming feeling that you have an inferiority complex and try to make up for it on the internet by acting like a bully (at times) and treating those who disagree with you with a flagrantly condescending attitude.

Now that said, I was not necessarily referring to you as a Luckolyte, but rather those who think his poo doesn't stink, that any mistake he makes is clearly somebody else's fault, that there's no way the colts had any chance at being successful if they had not drafted Luck and that the mere idea that RG3 might also be a good QB is simply absurd. If you feel that way then yes, I would consider you a Luckolyte. For the most part though, your comments on him have been fairly objective, which I would not say about the people who I consider to be Luckolytes.

I also have thoroughly enjoyed the success the Colts, and Luck, have had so far this season and I'm very optimistic about the future. I also see nothing wrong with defending your team or your player when provoked. But guess what, that's the same thing that many of the RG3 fans are doing. Simply defending their player. Yes this is a Colts forum but there are no membership restrictions. This is not a "colts fans only" website. it is catered to Colts fans but is not strictly limited to them. There's no reason why reasonable Colts fans and reasonable fans of other teams can't get along. There's no reason we can't have civil debate without resorting to name calling and condescension when it comes to someone who has a different opinion or point of view.

Again, yes there are a few who are obnoxious but there are many Colts fans who are as well. The majority of RG3 fans that I've personally seen posting are merely trying to defend their guy. That's their prerogative and this is an open site. For the ones who get on your nerves...ignore them. With those that can have civil, friendly discussion, try doing that...or ignore them. Who cares really. But all you're doing with your repeated comments about them is adding fuel to the fire that you want so desperately to go out.

I'm not holding a grudge against you for that. If I have any type of grudge against you it's for the almighty attitude you constantly post with and the condescending way you treat those who disagree with you. I am much more sold on Luck now than I was last year when watching him at Stanford. I had questions about him. There were things I had not seen him able to do that I was not certain he would be able to do if required, primarily whether or not he could have the same success without a highly prolific running game and elite level pass protection as he had with those things. The only time I saw him in a game where his running game was completely shut down was in the 3rd quarter of the game vs. Notre Dame and during that quarter, he was only able to move the Cardinal offense for ~30 yards. I had questions about him and I had concerns but since coming into the NFL he has largely answered the majority of those and I freely admit that. I am glad he's our QB, though unlike many, I don't think he was the ONLY option we had. I don't think the sun rises and sets by Andrew Luck like some people act like but I do think he is going to be a great QB. If you want to fault me for not buying into the hype just because everyone else said so then be my guest. However, I prefer to see things with my own eyes before truly buying in myself.

Yes, there have been a few RG3 fanboys who try to stir up trouble, but there are also a few Texans fanboys who do that, Patriots fanboys and fans of any other player or team that has any type of rivalry with the Colts and/or

Wow, that was a huge post. No inferiority complex here and if I come off as condescending, well that certainly is not my intention. I do, however get completely frustrated over fans of other teams that come to a Colts fan forum and try their hardest to get Colts fans to either, admit that their team and/or player they worship is better than the Colts and/or the Colts players.

That's all I'm going to say on this matter though. No sense in discussing this any further.

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It's amazing what happens when you actually look beyond the stats.

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Instead of Luck, what if it were Peyton Manning and RG3 and the Colts selected Manning? If Redskins fans were saying Griffin was better than PM (because of his interceptions which he did have), how would you react? Not good, I bet.

If he was playing better than Manning I would acknowledge that. But what does Manning have to with this? You think I hate Luck and love Manning or something?

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