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Opinions regarding RG3


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#1 Chris_21

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:24 PM

Hi all,

Skins fan here. I was hoping they landed luck but couldn't be happier with RG3's progress so far.

Just curious how you all view his play so far. Good luck the rest of the season.

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#2 chad72

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:27 PM

He has stunk it up (j/k) :).

He has done very well for you guys and like the Giants gave up 2 first rounders for Eli, you guys gave up 3 first rounders for RG3. Hopefully he continues to progress and does well for the Redskins to justify what you gave up for him.

#3 shakedownstreet

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

be prepared for biased replies :)

the dudes obviously a freak of nature. if he were on my team, i'd be worried about his long term health given his style of play

#4 Chris_21

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:46 PM

be prepared for biased replies

the dudes obviously a freak of nature. if he were on my team, i'd be worried about his long term health given his style of play


True. Same goes if the reversed was posted on a skins forum.

I think he will run less as time goes on. I hope anyway. The threat of it alone is the key.

#5 Boiler_Colt

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

I think he's played as well as you could ask for in the games i've seen. I do think that his receiving corps gets too little credit. Every one of those guys has the ability to take a 5 yard pass to the house. That and I don't think I've ever seen a Colt a receiver as wide open as some of the skins receivers get on the deep route. A credit to the play calling and the threat of the running game on play action.

#6 ReMeDy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:27 PM

For opinions, ask rg3isnumber1. Apparently, rg3 is already rookie of the year.

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#7 Slash777

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:54 PM

Hi all,

Skins fan here. I was hoping they landed luck but couldn't be happier with RG3's progress so far.

Just curious how you all view his play so far. Good luck the rest of the season.

Chris, welcome to the board.

I think that RGIII has played really well so far. He has made some really nice throws and has, as everyone knows, had some electrifying runs. He has handled everything asked of him masterfully and he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. He's a mart kid and is definitely a QB with the caliber to lead a team.

I do have some concerns however. Watching the Colts and Redskins with great interest in the two rookie QBs, it's clear that their games are drastically different. For the sake of discussion, I will number out my points so that it becomes easier to address each point. Please also note that I do not intend unfair critisism, and I hope that it does not come across in that manner.

1. Will the Redskins continue to use the spread-read option offense three years from now, and ask RGIII to run the ball as much as they have this year?
I think that the offense will change over time as defenses will have more tape on it and will have a gameplan to stop the read option. In addition, RGIII simply cannot run the ball nearly as much as he has this year. He already has had a concussion. The threat of injury is too much for Shanahan to continue with this offense. Would you agree with this?

2. There has to be a reason why the Redskins use the spread-read option offense. Of course it has to do with RGIII and his comfort in this style of offense. This style of offense is predicated on quick reads and reactions in the run game, which has been very successful. Alfred Morris is also doing a great job running the ball. In the passing game, the play-action plays a big part, mainly to freeze defenses and allow for the quarterback to make quick reads and quick throws. This too has worked very well, and in my opinion, due to the threat of RGIII's running ability, has been especially effective. But it has led to may short throws, nearly 25% behind the LOS and even more within 10-yards of the LOS. This would explain the YAC yards that RGIII has gained. Many will tell you that he has a lot of YAC because of perfect ball placement to receivers in stride, but in reality, that plays a smaller role than the actual design of the play. A screen play is designed to get the ball into the hands of the "playmakers" as are quick slants. These plays are a staple of the Redskins offense and accounts for most of the YAC yards attributed to RGIII. It also helps to explains the high completion percentage, one of the highest, if not the highest of any rookie QB.

3. If you agreed that the offense will eventually have to change because opposing defenses may catch on to the read-option offense and RGIII cannot continue to run the ball in this type of offense, then you wuld have to think that the offense will eventually ask for RGIII to make different types of throws. The play action that he's currently using will not be effective without the read option. The receivers will be asked to run different routes. Is this hindering his development? If they don't change their offense, will it continue to be as successful?

4. Lasty, another item of concern is RGIII's third down completion percentage. It's at 34%, and in comparison, Luck's is at 46%. As you know, third downs are very crucial. Depending on the distance, most teams will know if an offense will pass or run. On third down passing plays, RGIII has not been successful, especially when asked to throw more than 5+ yards for the first down. Again, in comparison, Luck is the league leader on third down and 10+ yards needed for the first and among the highest in overall third down passing efficiency. This demonstrates to me that Luck has gained the necessary skills to fully read a defense and make throws under pressure. RGIII up until this point has not successfully demonstrated this on a consistant basis. Now if the Redskins offense were to eventually change, and they ask RGIII to make these types of throws, downfield, more consistantly, would he be as sucessful?

I think he has shown the abilityto learn. I do not see why he cannot learn to be successful in a new offense, but I would slate Luck ahead of him in this regard. RGIII has great stats, but I feel that they are not sustainable for long-term success, and if that's the case, then what's the point?

#8 NorCalColt

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

I think RG3 has been as advertised. He is playing great. The concerns I have are with the rest of the roster. No first round pick until 2015, cap issues next year (dead money and last year of NFL sanctions), and I believe I read that 14 of the 22 projected starters from the end of the 2010/11 season were to become free agents by the end of next season (some of which have already been replaced, so that number is no longer valid, if it ever was). But roster concerns in the short term do exist. Where the Colts have the flexibility after this season to keep building around Luck, continue to shape the D, the Redskins won't have the same kind of options in the next couple years. So RG3 will need to perform at a very high level.

#9 Chris_21

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:23 PM

Chris, welcome to the board.

I think that RGIII has played really well so far. He has made some really nice throws and has, as everyone knows, had some electrifying runs. He has handled everything asked of him masterfully and he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. He's a mart kid and is definitely a QB with the caliber to lead a team.

I do have some concerns however. Watching the Colts and Redskins with great interest in the two rookie QBs, it's clear that their games are drastically different. For the sake of discussion, I will number out my points so that it becomes easier to address each point. Please also note that I do not intend unfair critisism, and I hope that it does not come across in that manner.

1. Will the Redskins continue to use the spread-read option offense three years from now, and ask RGIII to run the ball as much as they have this year?
I think that the offense will change over time as defenses will have more tape on it and will have a gameplan to stop the read option. In addition, RGIII simply cannot run the ball nearly as much as he has this year. He already has had a concussion. The threat of injury is too much for Shanahan to continue with this offense. Would you agree with this?

2. There has to be a reason why the Redskins use the spread-read option offense. Of course it has to do with RGIII and his comfort in this style of offense. This style of offense is predicated on quick reads and reactions in the run game, which has been very successful. Alfred Morris is also doing a great job running the ball. In the passing game, the play-action plays a big part, mainly to freeze defenses and allow for the quarterback to make quick reads and quick throws. This too has worked very well, and in my opinion, due to the threat of RGIII's running ability, has been especially effective. But it has led to may short throws, nearly 25% behind the LOS and even more within 10-yards of the LOS. This would explain the YAC yards that RGIII has gained. Many will tell you that he has a lot of YAC because of perfect ball placement to receivers in stride, but in reality, that plays a smaller role than the actual design of the play. A screen play is designed to get the ball into the hands of the "playmakers" as are quick slants. These plays are a staple of the Redskins offense and accounts for most of the YAC yards attributed to RGIII. It also helps to explains the high completion percentage, one of the highest, if not the highest of any rookie QB.

3. If you agreed that the offense will eventually have to change because opposing defenses may catch on to the read-option offense and RGIII cannot continue to run the ball in this type of offense, then you wuld have to think that the offense will eventually ask for RGIII to make different types of throws. The play action that he's currently using will not be effective without the read option. The receivers will be asked to run different routes. Is this hindering his development? If they don't change their offense, will it continue to be as successful?

4. Lasty, another item of concern is RGIII's third down completion percentage. It's at 34%, and in comparison, Luck's is at 46%. As you know, third downs are very crucial. Depending on the distance, most teams will know if an offense will pass or run. On third down passing plays, RGIII has not been successful, especially when asked to throw more than 5+ yards for the first down. Again, in comparison, Luck is the league leader on third down and 10+ yards needed for the first and among the highest in overall third down passing efficiency. This demonstrates to me that Luck has gained the necessary skills to fully read a defense and make throws under pressure. RGIII up until this point has not successfully demonstrated this on a consistant basis. Now if the Redskins offense were to eventually change, and they ask RGIII to make these types of throws, downfield, more consistantly, would he be as sucessful?

I think he has shown the abilityto learn. I do not see why he cannot learn to be successful in a new offense, but I would slate Luck ahead of him in this regard. RGIII has great stats, but I feel that they are not sustainable for long-term success, and if that's the case, then what's the point?


Thanks. These are all valid points/ concerns. The 3rd completion percentage is interesting. That is pretty low and I am not sure the exact reason.

Do you think there is a chance that the spread read option offense will become more prevalent as time goes on? I think it may.

Great reply and certainly some things to analyze/ think about

#10 Slash777

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:08 PM

Thanks. These are all valid points/ concerns. The 3rd completion percentage is interesting. That is pretty low and I am not sure the exact reason.

Do you think there is a chance that the spread read option offense will become more prevalent as time goes on? I think it may.

Great reply and certainly some things to analyze/ think about

I wrote third down completion percentage, but I was refering to third down conversion percentage. But is speaks to the same concern.

I do not think that the spread read option will become more prevalent for the Redskins primarily because of the toll that it may have on RGIII. If you consider that Tebow at 240 lbs ran the ball in a similar read option offense quite a bit last year and ended his season with broken ribs in the playoffs. I do not think it's sustainable for a long period of time.

I'm not sure if you have NFL rewind. If you do, watch the condensed version of 3 Redskins games and then immediately watch the condensed verion of 3 Colts games. You will see a difference in styles of offense and styles of QBplay. It's really shocking how different and not as evident without watching back-to-back.

#11 buffalo34

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:27 PM

He beat the Cowboys. And hopefully he'll beat the Cowboys again. All I needed out of the Redskins this year.

Kidding.

Looks like a bright spot for Washington. Just watch out for next year in the event of a sophomore slump, and when teams get more film on him, we'll see if he's ready.

#12 RGIII

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:36 PM

I think he's played as well as you could ask for in the games i've seen. I do think that his receiving corps gets too little credit. Every one of those guys has the ability to take a 5 yard pass to the house. That and I don't think I've ever seen a Colt a receiver as wide open as some of the skins receivers get on the deep route. A credit to the play calling and the threat of the running game on play action.


The receivers would get more credit if they weren't also responsible for many of the fundamental breakdowns that have killed us in the games we've lost. Griffin's play has consistently tended to outshine theirs even though some of the highlights might lead you to believe otherwise. Our team speed is certainly tremendous, though. Josh Morgan is probably the only guy we have in the rotation (and we do have a true rotation that gets 6 of our 7 receivers meaningful action in most games, which is pretty amazing to me) who isn't a threat to burn the opposing team.

I do have some concerns however. Watching the Colts and Redskins with great interest in the two rookie QBs, it's clear that their games are drastically different. For the sake of discussion, I will number out my points so that it becomes easier to address each point. Please also note that I do not intend unfair critisism, and I hope that it does not come across in that manner.


Prepare yourself... ;)

1. Will the Redskins continue to use the spread-read option offense three years from now, and ask RGIII to run the ball as much as they have this year?
I think that the offense will change over time as defenses will have more tape on it and will have a gameplan to stop the read option. In addition, RGIII simply cannot run the ball nearly as much as he has this year. He already has had a concussion. The threat of injury is too much for Shanahan to continue with this offense. Would you agree with this?


It's actually not correct to say that we run a spread-read option because our base offense isn't a spread offense. We've really just layered a few pistol-based formations and read-option concepts on top of the typical Shanahan offense. I don't think the read-option ever goes away but, even now, we use it judiciously. Our coaching staff has tended to go away from it when they've felt that defenses have keyed in on it, which goes a long way toward keeping Griffin clean. After the first few games of the season he's really only taken one or two hits that have had me genuinely concerned... but that isn't atypical even for a pocket passer.

We have also gone to more traditional pro-style looks in just about every game and have still been effective for the most part.

2. There has to be a reason why the Redskins use the spread-read option offense. Of course it has to do with RGIII and his comfort in this style of offense. This style of offense is predicated on quick reads and reactions in the run game, which has been very successful. Alfred Morris is also doing a great job running the ball. In the passing game, the play-action plays a big part, mainly to freeze defenses and allow for the quarterback to make quick reads and quick throws. This too has worked very well, and in my opinion, due to the threat of RGIII's running ability, has been especially effective. But it has led to may short throws, nearly 25% behind the LOS and even more within 10-yards of the LOS. This would explain the YAC yards that RGIII has gained. Many will tell you that he has a lot of YAC because of perfect ball placement to receivers in stride, but in reality, that plays a smaller role than the actual design of the play. A screen play is designed to get the ball into the hands of the "playmakers" as are quick slants. These plays are a staple of the Redskins offense and accounts for most of the YAC yards attributed to RGIII. It also helps to explains the high completion percentage, one of the highest, if not the highest of any rookie QB.


It has to do with having a QB with 4.3 speed and a coaching staff that intends to fully take advantage of the assets of their players. It helps that Griffin is comfortable with it from his days at Baylor but I promise you that we did not dumb down the playbook for him. As I said earlier, this is just another layer of complexity on top of a well-established pro-style offense.

It's ill-advised to try to justify Griffin's accuracy away with the frequency of short passes. He is still extremely accurate on his intermediate and deep passes as well. I've also noticed an ongoing tendency of people to underestimate how far some of his throws actually travel. I'm not sure why this is but I suspect it's some combination of how easy he makes it look and how quickly he can zip it into a receiver's hands when they're 15+ yards away.

The YAC aspect of our offense is also overstated. We are 19th in receiving yards in the league and 19th in YAC, which tends to indicate that we're not that much of an outlier in the NFL by any means. To be even more specific, 48% of our receiving yards are from YAC. The Patriots get 49% of their yards from YAC, the Broncos get 46%, and the Texans get 45%. That's pretty good company to be in and it seems that most teams fall in the ~42-47% range, with outliers going as high as ~55% from YAC and as low as ~33%. The Colts? 38%.

I've sufficiently addressed #3 already, so I'll move on to...

4. Lasty, another item of concern is RGIII's third down completion percentage. It's at 34%, and in comparison, Luck's is at 46%. As you know, third downs are very crucial. Depending on the distance, most teams will know if an offense will pass or run. On third down passing plays, RGIII has not been successful, especially when asked to throw more than 5+ yards for the first down. Again, in comparison, Luck is the league leader on third down and 10+ yards needed for the first and among the highest in overall third down passing efficiency. This demonstrates to me that Luck has gained the necessary skills to fully read a defense and make throws under pressure. RGIII up until this point has not successfully demonstrated this on a consistant basis. Now if the Redskins offense were to eventually change, and they ask RGIII to make these types of throws, downfield, more consistantly, would he be as sucessful?

I think he has shown the abilityto learn. I do not see why he cannot learn to be successful in a new offense, but I would slate Luck ahead of him in this regard. RGIII has great stats, but I feel that they are not sustainable for long-term success, and if that's the case, then what's the point?


Untimely penalties and drops destroyed our 3rd down % in the first half of the season. Griffin has generally looked good enough in that capacity for me and we have looked very good each of the past two weeks on 3rd down.

Luck deserves all the credit in the world for his success in those situations but I don't worry about how he's doing in relation to Griffin.

#13 Nobody

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:47 PM

For opinions, ask rg3isnumber1. Apparently, rg3 is already HoF MVP.

FTFY
I will delete this when the new Colts win a Super Bowl.

Come on boys, let's get rid of the rest of my sig!

#14 JoKeR

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:58 PM

I think he's very good and will get better, he might be a all-pro already. Im not one of those who thinks hes a Mike Vick. The thing that worries me is his build and that fact he likes to run, he's a pocket QB 1st but he runs a lot. He does rely on short passes and YAC for his stats because of the system he plays in but its good to have system thats built towards the QBs strengths. I wish Luck had that. The hype is annoying sometimes,to be honest, but that's not his fault. I do think Luck is better though, even if his individual stats don't scream it. They very well might meet in the SB 1 day.

#15 Chris_21

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

It will be interesting to see how be does facing a defense for the 2nd time. A defense that just shutdown Aaron Rodgers

I will say this, before the draft I thought luck was superior. He may still be when all is said and done, but the gap is closer than I imagined.

#16 Slash777

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:25 PM

It's good to have a well thought out in-depth reply. Understandably, you are a Redskins fan and you see what I amy not see, while I am a Colts fan and I too see things differently than you. It's definitely hard to be completely objective when discussing your favorite team, but I can see that you are being objective. Thank you for that.

As you have mentioned, Griffen's play has outshined the play of the WRs, as it should. In my opinion, the Play of Manning, Brady, Rogers outshines the play of their receivers, despite having really good receivers. The QB position is the premier position in football and Griffen is doing a fantastic job.

Regarding the type of offense that the Redskins run, regardless of the name of the offense, the offense is still predicated on quick reads in both the run game and the passing game. There are some pro style aspects to the offense, but for the majority, without the option read, it would not operate the same or as effectively. The play action when in a single back set has not been effective at all. It's been deadly in the pistol or read option offense. The games where the read option was not effective, the Redskins and RGIII especially were not effective. Those games could be classified as their worste games--the Panthers game comes to mind.

I think that you agreed with me that the Redskins use the Pistol or read option offense because of RGIII's 4.3 speed. This would indicate that they chose this offense because of, among other things, his running ability, coupled with his familiarity with this offense from college. It's good that the coaching staff could put together a gameplan to suit RGIIIs attributes, but I still contend that it will not be a sustainable offense for the long term. RG3 cannot sustain NFL hits for years and years. The offense will have to change, either by choice or by necessity.

To your point about it being unfair to attribute RG3's completion percentage to the distance of his throws and that he's still accurate with deeper throws: 25% of RG3's passes are behind the LOS. Nearly 46% of his passes are less than 10-yards past the LOS. It's a statistical fact that deeper passes have an inverse relationship to accuracy. In essence, the deeper the throw, the less accurate ANY QB is.

The YAC aspect of the offense is not overstated in this case, and I mean this objectively and not in an argumentative way. As you've mentioned, the Redskins are ranked 19th in the league in receiveing yards and 19th in YAC. This indicates to me that RGIII has one of the highest completion percentages in the league, yet the Redskins rank 19th in receivng yards-- indicates (short passes). To compound that, the Redskins are ranked 19th in the league in YAC, yet nearly 60% of RGIII's yards are comprised of YAC. This further indicates that RGIII does not throw the ball downfield nearly as much as he is given credit for. This would indicate a dink and dunk style of passing attack, which is what you will mainly hear when a discussion of RGIII is brought up. The numbers, as discussed, would back up this arguement.

You and I will have to respectfully agree to disagree when looking at RGIII's third down stats. I see a QB that when asked to drop back, without a play action, and read a defense and deliver a catchable ball, has struggled to do so. Their may have been drops, but we're so far into the season that it would have to be a wild coincidence for untimely drops to have such a big effect on his third down conversion percentage.

#17 Slash777

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:58 PM

I meant that nearly 50% ( 48%) of RGIII's passing yards are comprised of YAC, . The 60% was a typo and After I caught it, I coulnd't go back and change it..

#18 Chris_21

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

I meant that nearly 50% ( 48%) of RGIII's passing yards are comprised of YAC, . The 60% was a typo and After I caught it, I coulnd't go back and change it..


He is though 2nd in yards per attempt vs Luck who is 18th. So he is not really just focusing on the short passing game.

#19 Chris_21

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:13 PM

I meant that nearly 50% ( 48%) of RGIII's passing yards are comprised of YAC, . The 60% was a typo and After I caught it, I coulnd't go back and change it..


Isn't manning over 40% as well? I think a few QB's are up there

#20 Slash777

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:21 PM

He is though 2nd in yards per attempt vs Luck who is 18th. So he is not really just focusing on the short passing game.

Here is a neutral third party's analysis on RGIII's passing from an article that I found online. Here's a small portion of the article:

RGIII is already one of the best deep-ball passers in the NFL. Averaging 16.7 yards per deep passing attempt, RGIII has thrown a touchdown on one-fifth of all of his attempts of 20 or more yards. Nonetheless, the Redskins haven’t thrown deep often this season; Griffin has fewer deep passing attempts than all but one NFL starter (Alex Smith). As a comparison, Joe Flacco has thrown deep exactly three times as often as RGIII this year.

0: Number of quarterbacks who have thrown more play-action passes than Griffin.
Because of the offensive system the Redskins run, they often show play-action on their passing attempts. Read-option plays are the foundation of much of what they do, and the Redskins have plays that contain run-pass options after the play has begun, i.e. Griffin can hand off the ball, keep it himself, or throw it. Of Griffin’s 334 dropbacks, 123 have been play-action, 36.8 percent. In comparison, Romo is last in the NFL in play-action rate at 8.3 percent and the difference between him and the next quarterback, Kevin Kolb, is larger than the difference between Kolb and the next 17 quarterbacks.

#21 Slash777

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:27 PM

Isn't manning over 40% as well? I think a few QB's are up there

Yes, Manning and Brady have about 45%-50%-ish YAC, however, they've already thrown for over 3,260-3300 yards, while RGIII has thrown for about 2500.

So it indicates that they are getting YAC, but not living off of the short passes. They do have more attempts however.

#22 Matugi

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:46 PM

The Redskins are not 19th in yards is not because of short passes. Griffin has the second highest YPA in the league. Griffin has nearly 100 fewer pass attempts than luck at roughly 300ish. However, he's carried the ball nearly 100 times which make up the deficit in drop backs.

#23 funktacious2

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:20 AM

RG3 is phenomenal so far, but comparing him with Luck is a lost cause. They both have strengths and weaknesses and different supporting casts, and that fact should not be underplayed. These two are playing completely different games. Looking at overall ypg the two teams are almost identical have only a 1.1 ypg differential in favor of the colts, but yet the Skins have a more balanced attack having the no.1 running game. This means defenses have to commit extra men, leaving more holes in the bass attack and opening up more options for screens. The colts on the other hand have been forced to pass happy each week... even against some of the worst rushing defenses in the league. This doesn't mean Luck or RG3 is better than the other, but more so my point is you can't just use stats to compare the two, there are different factors and circumstances that affect these stats.

In the end time may not even tell who's better. What if RG3 finishes his career with better stats, but Luck wins more superbowls or the other way around. Who's going to be remembered as the the better quarterback? This is why QBs have the "intangibles" measurement... because sometimes you just need to be clutch, you just need to have the "it" factor. And that's why we see guys like Brady, Rogers, and the Manning brothers reaping the rewards. Stats don't always tell the whole story, these two guys need some time to build a legacy before we can really figure this one out. Who knows, 1 or both of these guys may not even be starting 3-4 years from now, crazier things have happened.

#24 Yehoodi

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:05 AM

RG3 is phenomenal so far, but comparing him with Luck is a lost cause. They both have strengths and weaknesses and different supporting casts, and that fact should not be underplayed. These two are playing completely different games. Looking at overall ypg the two teams are almost identical have only a 1.1 ypg differential in favor of the colts, but yet the Skins have a more balanced attack having the no.1 running game. This means defenses have to commit extra men, leaving more holes in the bass attack and opening up more options for screens. The colts on the other hand have been forced to pass happy each week... even against some of the worst rushing defenses in the league. This doesn't mean Luck or RG3 is better than the other, but more so my point is you can't just use stats to compare the two, there are different factors and circumstances that affect these stats.

In the end time may not even tell who's better. What if RG3 finishes his career with better stats, but Luck wins more superbowls or the other way around. Who's going to be remembered as the the better quarterback? This is why QBs have the "intangibles" measurement... because sometimes you just need to be clutch, you just need to have the "it" factor. And that's why we see guys like Brady, Rogers, and the Manning brothers reaping the rewards. Stats don't always tell the whole story, these two guys need some time to build a legacy before we can really figure this one out. Who knows, 1 or both of these guys may not even be starting 3-4 years from now, crazier things have happened.


a lot of good points, and yes we will need time to see each QB resume before we can get a better feel for the two . ..

I did want to bring up one point you mentioned regarding the two teams running game, which typically is handled by non QBs . . . .however in RGIII's case he is helping his teams running game . . . .

overall the skins have 1799 yards (163.5 per game) and the colts 1191 yards (108.3 per game), but RGIII has nearly a 1/3 of his teams yards with 642 yards to Luck's 183. if we take out teh QB contribution to the rushing game to see what the non QB contribution is we see that the skins are 1157 yards (105.1 per game) and colts are 1008 yards (91.6 per game) . . .

so the numbers are much closer . . . true overall the skins have a better rushing game, which can help out the passing game and QB as u indcated, but a lot of theyards are add by RGIII, so he is helping himself . . . the rushing game are not that much different, but just that rgiii adds a great deal to teh skins rushing attack . . .

#25 Truckin Sanders

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:16 AM

Chris, welcome to the board.

I think that RGIII has played really well so far. He has made some really nice throws and has, as everyone knows, had some electrifying runs. He has handled everything asked of him masterfully and he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. He's a mart kid and is definitely a QB with the caliber to lead a team.

I do have some concerns however. Watching the Colts and Redskins with great interest in the two rookie QBs, it's clear that their games are drastically different. For the sake of discussion, I will number out my points so that it becomes easier to address each point. Please also note that I do not intend unfair critisism, and I hope that it does not come across in that manner.

1. Will the Redskins continue to use the spread-read option offense three years from now, and ask RGIII to run the ball as much as they have this year?
I think that the offense will change over time as defenses will have more tape on it and will have a gameplan to stop the read option. In addition, RGIII simply cannot run the ball nearly as much as he has this year. He already has had a concussion. The threat of injury is too much for Shanahan to continue with this offense. Would you agree with this?

2. There has to be a reason why the Redskins use the spread-read option offense. Of course it has to do with RGIII and his comfort in this style of offense. This style of offense is predicated on quick reads and reactions in the run game, which has been very successful. Alfred Morris is also doing a great job running the ball. In the passing game, the play-action plays a big part, mainly to freeze defenses and allow for the quarterback to make quick reads and quick throws. This too has worked very well, and in my opinion, due to the threat of RGIII's running ability, has been especially effective. But it has led to may short throws, nearly 25% behind the LOS and even more within 10-yards of the LOS. This would explain the YAC yards that RGIII has gained. Many will tell you that he has a lot of YAC because of perfect ball placement to receivers in stride, but in reality, that plays a smaller role than the actual design of the play. A screen play is designed to get the ball into the hands of the "playmakers" as are quick slants. These plays are a staple of the Redskins offense and accounts for most of the YAC yards attributed to RGIII. It also helps to explains the high completion percentage, one of the highest, if not the highest of any rookie QB.

3. If you agreed that the offense will eventually have to change because opposing defenses may catch on to the read-option offense and RGIII cannot continue to run the ball in this type of offense, then you wuld have to think that the offense will eventually ask for RGIII to make different types of throws. The play action that he's currently using will not be effective without the read option. The receivers will be asked to run different routes. Is this hindering his development? If they don't change their offense, will it continue to be as successful?

4. Lasty, another item of concern is RGIII's third down completion percentage. It's at 34%, and in comparison, Luck's is at 46%. As you know, third downs are very crucial. Depending on the distance, most teams will know if an offense will pass or run. On third down passing plays, RGIII has not been successful, especially when asked to throw more than 5+ yards for the first down. Again, in comparison, Luck is the league leader on third down and 10+ yards needed for the first and among the highest in overall third down passing efficiency. This demonstrates to me that Luck has gained the necessary skills to fully read a defense and make throws under pressure. RGIII up until this point has not successfully demonstrated this on a consistant basis. Now if the Redskins offense were to eventually change, and they ask RGIII to make these types of throws, downfield, more consistantly, would he be as sucessful?

I think he has shown the abilityto learn. I do not see why he cannot learn to be successful in a new offense, but I would slate Luck ahead of him in this regard. RGIII has great stats, but I feel that they are not sustainable for long-term success, and if that's the case, then what's the point?


3) Why would they need to change their offense? If they can run it to perfection defenses will continually have trouble with it.
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#26 Slash777

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:45 AM

3) Why would they need to change their offense? If they can run it to perfection defenses will continually have trouble with it.

A) Defenses will eventually catch up with the scheme and learn how to defend against it, thus the reason for so many offenses changing and adapting all of the time in the NFL.

B) RGIII cannot sustain these types of hits for several more years. He's already had a concussion from running with the ball this year, confirming what most people feared about his style of play and the style of offense.

#27 NorCalColt

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:03 PM

A) Defenses will eventually catch up with the scheme and learn how to defend against it, thus the reason for so many offenses changing and adapting all of the time in the NFL.


People have slowed down the Panthers in one year. Morris is killing it for the Redskins, another late round pick for Shanahan producing big. He's at 4.7 yards a carry. The Panthers RBs were as good last year, not so much this season. To me the key to the Skins O is stopping Morris first. Cam isn't having the season he had a year ago because he is now being asked to do much more with down and distance issues, which didn't exist as often last season. Football is a lot easier with 2nd and 4, as opposed to 2nd and 9 or more. RG3's real test to me will come if the Redskins don't continue to run the ball as well.

#28 oldunclemark

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:18 PM

Hi all,

Skins fan here. I was hoping they landed luck but couldn't be happier with RG3's progress so far.

Just curious how you all view his play so far. Good luck the rest of the season.


he's been better than I expected he'd be....I just worry about his health...he takes some hits...

Got to give Mr. Shanahan credit for designing an effective offense around him..

But just like Luck...lets see how he does the second time around against division rivals...That's the true test...

#29 Truckin Sanders

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:31 PM

A) Defenses will eventually catch up with the scheme and learn how to defend against it, thus the reason for so many offenses changing and adapting all of the time in the NFL.

B) RGIII cannot sustain these types of hits for several more years. He's already had a concussion from running with the ball this year, confirming what most people feared about his style of play and the style of offense.


A) Defenses will catch up to it? Please tell me how defenses caught up to Peyton Manning, or John Elway over the years or is this the stigma that there can not be a "running" quarterback

B) RG3 is smart and unlike Vick will learn when to go down. He is 217lbs and could add on some more muscle. Michael Vick has taken a beating over the years and has still played 10 season albeit not 10 full seasons. RG3 looks to pass first and run second. They have not created a lot of designed runs for him only when protection breaks down or nobody can get open.
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#30 RGIII

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

Regarding the type of offense that the Redskins run, regardless of the name of the offense, the offense is still predicated on quick reads in both the run game and the passing game. There are some pro style aspects to the offense, but for the majority, without the option read, it would not operate the same or as effectively. The play action when in a single back set has not been effective at all. It's been deadly in the pistol or read option offense. The games where the read option was not effective, the Redskins and RGIII especially were not effective. Those games could be classified as their worste games--the Panthers game comes to mind.


If you fail to execute in any one phase of the game it tends to have a severe negative effect on the other phases. The read option hasn't failed us yet but our defense consistently falls short, which means we have to be firing on all cylinders offensively to have a chance to win games. In the two games where we struggled it was the passing attack that failed us.

You've said that you have access to Game Rewind and have watched quite a bit of Griffin. That means you should know better than to say that our singleback sets are ineffective - whether it be running, passing off the play action, or just dropback passing. Just look at the last game: Garcon's big TD came off a singleback PA pass as did the 30 yard TD to Niles Paul as did the 23 yard pass to Santana Moss that was key to getting us in field goal position to effectively put the game away in the 4th quarter. There was even another one of those plays earlier in the game where we had a receiver running wide open down the field that Griffin missed because he was under pressure. Morris also ran pretty effectively out of those looks, so it should be safe to say that we did a significant amount of damage to Dallas out of traditional sets.

I think that you agreed with me that the Redskins use the Pistol or read option offense because of RGIII's 4.3 speed. This would indicate that they chose this offense because of, among other things, his running ability, coupled with his familiarity with this offense from college. It's good that the coaching staff could put together a gameplan to suit RGIIIs attributes, but I still contend that it will not be a sustainable offense for the long term. RG3 cannot sustain NFL hits for years and years. The offense will have to change, either by choice or by necessity.


He's not taking that many big hits anymore. There are pocket passers who take more abuse week-to-week than Griffin does as a runner. The only time I worry about him now is when we have guys whiff on blocks and a defender gets a clean shot at him in the pocket. That's an occupational hazard for any QB, runner or no.

To your point about it being unfair to attribute RG3's completion percentage to the distance of his throws and that he's still accurate with deeper throws: 25% of RG3's passes are behind the LOS. Nearly 46% of his passes are less than 10-yards past the LOS. It's a statistical fact that deeper passes have an inverse relationship to accuracy. In essence, the deeper the throw, the less accurate ANY QB is.


Clearly you didn't consider what I said very carefully because I am not arguing that Griffin's stats aren't improved by the short throws. Every QB's stats are. What I'm telling you is that Griffin is also extremely accurate on the intermediate and deep throws. He completes a higher percentage of those throws than Luck, who seems to specialize in them. I'm not even really talking stats here. Griffin simply does a phenomenal job of putting the ball on a spot anywhere on the field. This is the one attribute that stands out the most about him, IMO.

The YAC aspect of the offense is not overstated in this case, and I mean this objectively and not in an argumentative way. As you've mentioned, the Redskins are ranked 19th in the league in receiveing yards and 19th in YAC. This indicates to me that RGIII has one of the highest completion percentages in the league, yet the Redskins rank 19th in receivng yards-- indicates (short passes).


That's a false correlation you're drawing there. You need to consider that Griffin has also attempted less passes than every QB but Russell Wilson and a handful of guys who have been injured or benched. Griffin is tied for first in the league in yards per attempt, which is a function of his high completion percentage but his YAC is not egregious...

To compound that, the Redskins are ranked 19th in the league in YAC, yet nearly 60% of RGIII's yards are comprised of YAC. This further indicates that RGIII does not throw the ball downfield nearly as much as he is given credit for. This would indicate a dink and dunk style of passing attack, which is what you will mainly hear when a discussion of RGIII is brought up. The numbers, as discussed, would back up this arguement.


Less than 50%, you're exagerrating by 10% and continue to push the dink and dunk nonsense when I gave you the numbers. The Redskins are relatively average when it comes to YAC and are generally within about 4% of most other explosive offenses. They are closer to the average for a quality offense than the Colts are coming from the other direction. The Raiders and Steelers are teams that are well above the average range with about 54% of their receiving yards from YAC apiece.

Are short throws a big part of our offense? Sure. They should be a big part of any team's offense and typically are in any scheme with strong WCO influences. I have no problem admitting that. What I find utterly laughable is the notion that we lean on it that much more heavily than every other team out there. The numbers don't back that up.

You and I will have to respectfully agree to disagree when looking at RGIII's third down stats. I see a QB that when asked to drop back, without a play action, and read a defense and deliver a catchable ball, has struggled to do so. Their may have been drops, but we're so far into the season that it would have to be a wild coincidence for untimely drops to have such a big effect on his third down conversion percentage.


The Skins are very good on first and second downs. Usually if we get to third down something has gone wrong in the form of a drop, penalty, etc. with the result being that our distance to go situations have tended to be unfavorable. In other words, the failure to execute doesn't always come on that third down but when third down does roll around we tend to be behind the 8-ball. This has been a consistent trend that has hurt our total 3rd down stats and would hurt any team's. If you want statistical evidence of this, the best I can manage without doing a ridiculous manual tally is to point out that we are the most penalized team in football.

Without the untimely mistakes leading up to those situations we still might not be brilliant on 3rd down conversions but we'd look a lot better. Lately we have been better.

People have slowed down the Panthers in one year. Morris is killing it for the Redskins, another late round pick for Shanahan producing big. He's at 4.7 yards a carry. The Panthers RBs were as good last year, not so much this season. To me the key to the Skins O is stopping Morris first. Cam isn't having the season he had a year ago because he is now being asked to do much more with down and distance issues, which didn't exist as often last season. Football is a lot easier with 2nd and 4, as opposed to 2nd and 9 or more. RG3's real test to me will come if the Redskins don't continue to run the ball as well.


The Panthers' scheme has it's own issues and, honestly, they started being slown down after the first few weeks of last season. Let me ask you this...

If you focus on stopping Morris, what do you think will happen to your LBs and safeties when Griffin pulls the ball away from him at the last second?

#31 NorCalColt

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

The Panthers' scheme has it's own issues and, honestly, they started being slown down after the first few weeks of last season. Let me ask you this...

If you focus on stopping Morris, what do you think will happen to your LBs and safeties when Griffin pulls the ball away from him at the last second?


The Panthers stopped running the ball effectively. They ended 3rd in the NFL in rushing yards per game last season. Today? 18th.

RG3's strength to me is the play action. How you get to a point of not biting on the fake, I don't know. But it can be done. As long as teams keep drawing in, he'll have more highlights of TD passes without a defender in the shot. And there have been several of those. That's a team over committed to the run. And they over commit because they are getting gashed by it. You got to pick your poison though - 1st in rushing yards a game, 7th in passing. I don't have the answer how, but it's the run which sets up RG3, the pistol and the fakes, which are the foundation of his success. And that only works when you have to respect the run.

#32 funktacious2

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

a lot of good points, and yes we will need time to see each QB resume before we can get a better feel for the two . ..

I did want to bring up one point you mentioned regarding the two teams running game, which typically is handled by non QBs . . . .however in RGIII's case he is helping his teams running game . . . .

overall the skins have 1799 yards (163.5 per game) and the colts 1191 yards (108.3 per game), but RGIII has nearly a 1/3 of his teams yards with 642 yards to Luck's 183. if we take out teh QB contribution to the rushing game to see what the non QB contribution is we see that the skins are 1157 yards (105.1 per game) and colts are 1008 yards (91.6 per game) . . .

so the numbers are much closer . . . true overall the skins have a better rushing game, which can help out the passing game and QB as u indcated, but a lot of theyards are add by RGIII, so he is helping himself . . . the rushing game are not that much different, but just that rgiii adds a great deal to teh skins rushing attack . . .

Great points, but I include RG3's success in the running game in attributing to his success in the passing game. However, this is not meant to say anything about his skills, just about different factors and circumstances that affect statistics.

#33 Slash777

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

If you fail to execute in any one phase of the game it tends to have a severe negative effect on the other phases. The read option hasn't failed us yet but our defense consistently falls short, which means we have to be firing on all cylinders offensively to have a chance to win games. In the two games where we struggled it was the passing attack that failed us.

You've said that you have access to Game Rewind and have watched quite a bit of Griffin. That means you should know better than to say that our singleback sets are ineffective - whether it be running, passing off the play action, or just dropback passing. Just look at the last game: Garcon's big TD came off a singleback PA pass as did the 30 yard TD to Niles Paul as did the 23 yard pass to Santana Moss that was key to getting us in field goal position to effectively put the game away in the 4th quarter. There was even another one of those plays earlier in the game where we had a receiver running wide open down the field that Griffin missed because he was under pressure. Morris also ran pretty effectively out of those looks, so it should be safe to say that we did a significant amount of damage to Dallas out of traditional sets.



He's not taking that many big hits anymore. There are pocket passers who take more abuse week-to-week than Griffin does as a runner. The only time I worry about him now is when we have guys whiff on blocks and a defender gets a clean shot at him in the pocket. That's an occupational hazard for any QB, runner or no.



Clearly you didn't consider what I said very carefully because I am not arguing that Griffin's stats aren't improved by the short throws. Every QB's stats are. What I'm telling you is that Griffin is also extremely accurate on the intermediate and deep throws. He completes a higher percentage of those throws than Luck, who seems to specialize in them. I'm not even really talking stats here. Griffin simply does a phenomenal job of putting the ball on a spot anywhere on the field. This is the one attribute that stands out the most about him, IMO.



That's a false correlation you're drawing there. You need to consider that Griffin has also attempted less passes than every QB but Russell Wilson and a handful of guys who have been injured or benched. Griffin is tied for first in the league in yards per attempt, which is a function of his high completion percentage but his YAC is not egregious...



Less than 50%, you're exagerrating by 10% and continue to push the dink and dunk nonsense when I gave you the numbers. The Redskins are relatively average when it comes to YAC and are generally within about 4% of most other explosive offenses. They are closer to the average for a quality offense than the Colts are coming from the other direction. The Raiders and Steelers are teams that are well above the average range with about 54% of their receiving yards from YAC apiece.

Are short throws a big part of our offense? Sure. They should be a big part of any team's offense and typically are in any scheme with strong WCO influences. I have no problem admitting that. What I find utterly laughable is the notion that we lean on it that much more heavily than every other team out there. The numbers don't back that up.



The Skins are very good on first and second downs. Usually if we get to third down something has gone wrong in the form of a drop, penalty, etc. with the result being that our distance to go situations have tended to be unfavorable. In other words, the failure to execute doesn't always come on that third down but when third down does roll around we tend to be behind the 8-ball. This has been a consistent trend that has hurt our total 3rd down stats and would hurt any team's. If you want statistical evidence of this, the best I can manage without doing a ridiculous manual tally is to point out that we are the most penalized team in football.

Without the untimely mistakes leading up to those situations we still might not be brilliant on 3rd down conversions but we'd look a lot better. Lately we have been better.



The Panthers' scheme has it's own issues and, honestly, they started being slown down after the first few weeks of last season. Let me ask you this...

If you focus on stopping Morris, what do you think will happen to your LBs and safeties when Griffin pulls the ball away from him at the last second?

This is going to be a funny argument because essentially to prove that RGIII or Luck is doing more for their respective teams, we have to argue who has the worste defense. So, I will do just that and claim that unfortunately, the Colts defense is worse than the Redskins defense, despite the stats as shown on NFL.com. Please review the linked article, stating with advanced statistics that the Colts do in fact have the worst defense in the NFL: http://www.footballo...-12-quick-reads . Now, with that said, and statistical proof of a poor defense, the Colts are 7-4 and a winning team, and we don't use a poor defense as an excuse for the shortcommings on our offense. Luck still has a lot of work to do in cleaning up his game, and that's a reflection on Luck, not the Colt's poor defense. Thus, the poor defense excuse constantly used for RGIII is null and void in comparison, however, both equally true if not comparing the two ;) .

To your point about the single back formation- I would argue that by far the Redskins most effective formation is the Pistol style read option offense, and that the single back offense is not as effective. Yes, there have been plays that have been run successfully out of the single back formation, but there have been a high percentage of unsuccessful plays out of that formation. I have noticed that when in that formation, RGIII has scrambled and run to gain yards, rather than pass because the play-action fake is not as effective and the defense can be more aggressive.

I can't argue against your statement about RGIII not taking many big hits anymore, when out of the pocket and running. But you and I know that taking hits when running is inevitable, and the more he runs, the more he puts himself at risk. Up until this point, RGIII has had over 43 designed running plays and numerous plays where he ran after dropping back to pass. HUnfortunately, he must keep running to pose the threat of a run to the defense, or else the read option run play will lose it's effectiveness. I still thnk that a change in this offense is inevitable.

I did immediately clarify in my very next post about the 48% YAC, less than 50% as you've mentioned.

Statistics have a funny way of telling a story. What if I were to say that RGIII throws many short passes and very deep passes, but some, not many intermediate passes. This would skey the stats to show a greater YPA because of the deep pass completions, but still allow RGIII to dink and dunk on a majority of plays. Meanwhile, we could have another QB that doesn't dink and dunk, but also doesn't throw very deep as often. He's asked to make the intermediate throws on average, along with screens and slants, and thus has a lower YPA. That QB is asked to make harder throws more consistently resulting in more yards, but also a lower completion percentage, and more INT's. Luck's Yards Per Completion is at 12.6, higher than RGIII's and among the highest in the league.

Lastly, I will say this. I would love to sit down and watch a Redskins game and a Colts game with you. I am sure that we could appreciate what the other sees in their QB. I've always stated that I think RGIII is a good QB. But I see such a difference in styles of play that I think, and possibly unfairly, that Luck is asked to do so much more with the offense that he's running. Again, of course, I'm probably biased. :thmup:

#34 JWF

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:09 PM

They very well might meet in the SB 1 day.


That would be really cool to see!

#35 coltsfan_nyc

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

I'm gonna be honest with you, I was raised a Giants fan when I was small and so America's Team, the Eagles, and Washington were my mortal enemies. Fast forward, I have to say I was hating on RG3 real hard for all of the hype, the endless commercials and always being compared to MY quarterback.

But since I'm being honest here, I cannot deny he has a great personality and carries himself well and is very intelligent and I like his most recent interview with NFL AM and he changed my mind. Prior to that I pre-judged him as being arrogant and concededbut he is a down to earth young man.

Very eccentric. As far as on the field, this young guy is gifted! In one game I sware I didn't know who had the ball, did he keep it? Did he pass it? Watching him is awesome. He's gonna go far.






But not as far as Andrew Luck!
I PROMISED MYSELF TO SEE THE COLTS AT LUCAS OIL STADIUM IN 2013!

#36 southwest1

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

Other people are here are better suited to discuss RG3's ability to dissect secondaries, throw with accuracy on the move, & always keep your eyes looking downfield to the open WR & TE than I am. Me, I'm a chemistry locker room PR guy. I look primarily at background, leadership, drive, the desire to win, overcoming adversity, & the ability to inspire and make other follow you through the gates of Hades if necessary.

RG3 grew up in a military family. He learned every that the world doesn't revolve around him, deadlines must be met/progress must always be made no matter what, the real test of a person's character comes not through easy success but failure and how you chose to respond to it, and you lead by example. Conduct yourself in a dignified and responsible way at all times.

RG3 is humble, doesn't believe he is entitled to special treatment, is respectful of veterans on his squad and media personnel I have seen him interviewed by, and he is always willing to listen to coaches and team mates. He is not self centered and he knows that football is a team sport and he always gives credit to his team mates and coaches first and foremost. RG3 has been very complementary of TE Chris Cooley too for showing him the NFL ropes as a rookie and making him feel welcome in the nation's capital too.

He seems driven to win, but doesn't need or want the credit to stoke his own ego; He seems very self deprecating too. I love that actually. You can't help but root for him in every game he plays. He has an air of quiet confidence about him as well that makes offensive lineman wanna make that block or catch that ball. I like that too. I need to see more dig yourself out of a scoring hole games, but RG3 has the perfect military upbringing to do that once he has a season or 2 under his belt. This kid is tough, smart, funny, and darn nice. He will be an NFL superstar in the NFL in very short order IMO.
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#37 RGIII

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:54 PM

This is going to be a funny argument because essentially to prove that RGIII or Luck is doing more for their respective teams, we have to argue who has the worste defense. So, I will do just that and claim that unfortunately, the Colts defense is worse than the Redskins defense, despite the stats as shown on NFL.com. Please review the linked article, stating with advanced statistics that the Colts do in fact have the worst defense in the NFL: http://www.footballo...-12-quick-reads . Now, with that said, and statistical proof of a poor defense, the Colts are 7-4 and a winning team, and we don't use a poor defense as an excuse for the shortcommings on our offense. Luck still has a lot of work to do in cleaning up his game, and that's a reflection on Luck, not the Colt's poor defense. Thus, the poor defense excuse constantly used for RGIII is null and void in comparison, however, both equally true if not comparing the two ;) .


The fact that our defense is bad is not an excuse for Griffin as Griffin doesn't need any excuses (he's been too good too often for that), it's merely an explanation of how we've managed to lose more games than we've won despite being 7th in the league in scoring. I've seen you guys win when Luck has played less than superb football. We do not win unless Griffin and Morris are stealing the show.

If you want to proclaim that your defense is worse, then that's on you. I'll grant that ours at least succeeded in making Nick Foles look like the completely unprepared prospect he is two weeks back and played one decent half of football against Tony Romo, so you could argue they're on the up and up (I still don't trust them one bit, though). The important thing to note (and it is something that I've said before and the article you posted bears out) is that you haven't needed good defense because you've played a veritable who's who of awful QBs and offenses this season. Incidentally, your D has still played well enough to keep the score relatively low for your offense.

To your point about the single back formation- I would argue that by far the Redskins most effective formation is the Pistol style read option offense, and that the single back offense is not as effective. Yes, there have been plays that have been run successfully out of the single back formation, but there have been a high percentage of unsuccessful plays out of that formation. I have noticed that when in that formation, RGIII has scrambled and run to gain yards, rather than pass because the play-action fake is not as effective and the defense can be more aggressive.


You've backtracked big time here because you originally said that our singleback formation was not effective at all. I'll take that as a sign that my pointing out that almost all of our damage done in the passing game against Dallas was out of singleback looks jogged your memory ;)

All formations have their pros and cons. Our affinity for the stretch run means that, by design, play action passes out of that formation typically entail a bootleg away from the moving pocket. Griffin doesn't have anyone out in front of him to protect him but he also doesn't have any defenders to stop him from making a quick pass or cutting upfield if all goes well. In the pistol the run develops a little bit differently. Griffin doesn't have to roll out off the fake and he usually has blocking ahead of him. He still doesn't have a ton of time to make the throw, though, and he has less space to take off with it if the coverage is good.

If you simply want to make a case that we've been better out of the Pistol for most of this season then I'd probably agree. However, I'd also point out that the Pistol only entails how far back from center the QB lines up. We actually have a pretty wide array of different looks and personnel that we use in the Pistol. Some strongly resemble the singleback look we've been discussing, some look more like a full house set or strong/weak set. We don't always go to the read-option out of it, either. Some of our runs are just designed runs and some of our fakes are just designed fakes.

Statistics have a funny way of telling a story. What if I were to say that RGIII throws many short passes and very deep passes, but some, not many intermediate passes. This would skey the stats to show a greater YPA because of the deep pass completions, but still allow RGIII to dink and dunk on a majority of plays. Meanwhile, we could have another QB that doesn't dink and dunk, but also doesn't throw very deep as often. He's asked to make the intermediate throws on average, along with screens and slants, and thus has a lower YPA. That QB is asked to make harder throws more consistently resulting in more yards, but also a lower completion percentage, and more INT's. Luck's Yards Per Completion is at 12.6, higher than RGIII's and among the highest in the league.


Griffin doesn't throw deep very often, though. He throws a lot of short-intermediate passes and when he chooses to go deep it's usually very deep with a reasonably good success rate.

Luck's yards per completion is a whopping 0.5 yards higher than Griffin's, what was your point with that one? As far as I can tell, all that says is that Luck's average completion travels 8 yards through the air and Griffin's travels 6. Is the extra 2 yards really significant?

Lastly, I will say this. I would love to sit down and watch a Redskins game and a Colts game with you. I am sure that we could appreciate what the other sees in their QB. I've always stated that I think RGIII is a good QB. But I see such a difference in styles of play that I think, and possibly unfairly, that Luck is asked to do so much more with the offense that he's running. Again, of course, I'm probably biased. :thmup:


Luck isn't asked to do more, he's just asked to do different things and I don't know that those things suit his natural talents very well.

But since I'm being honest here, I cannot deny he has a great personality and carries himself well and is very intelligent and I like his most recent interview with NFL AM and he changed my mind. Prior to that I pre-judged him as being arrogant and concededbut he is a down to earth young man.

Very eccentric. As far as on the field, this young guy is gifted! In one game I sware I didn't know who had the ball, did he keep it? Did he pass it? Watching him is awesome. He's gonna go far.


You know, I'm very thankful that people dropped the whole arrogance thing not too long after the season started. The commercials and the hype machine had a lot of people jumping all over quotes that were awfully benign in context. He's a good kid and a heck of a lot of fun to watch.

It's been just a hair over five years since the Redskins had a guy that dynamic on the field and endearing to the fans off of it. :(

#38 southwest1

southwest1
  • Member
  • 12699 posts

Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:25 AM

The other thing I like about RG3, even though this result was not directly related in any way, shape, or form, he is making NFL fans & coaches erase the memory of former Raiders QB Jamarcus Russell. I suppose with Carson Palmer in Oakland you could say Jamarcus is a distant memory. However, Russell was a high round draft pick who fizzled out due to sheer laziness & a sense of entitlement almost like I made to the NFL & no longer have to work hard now. Unfortunately, black QB's on a PR level are held to a higher standard of scrutiny than their white counterparts usually, which isn't fair, but sadly is often true. Sure, Cam Newton took the NFL world by storm last year, but look at his on the field struggles now.

I like RG3 because he is the perfect mix of hardwork, humility, & tenacity who has a great head on his shoulders and let me earn it attitude. Something Jamarcus Russell never possessed at all IMO.

RG3 will make owners, fans, & players appreciate not entitlement but perseverance and conscientiousness on a grand personality scale IMO.
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu






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