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we need some better pass rushers


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#1 Stephen

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:35 AM

We should get a couple good pass rushers in the draft. That will help us beat teams like the patriots that strategy seems to work for the giants

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#2 ar1888

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:48 AM

Only have 3 draft picks. Too many other needs to get a couple.

#3 SteelCityColt

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:02 AM

There is a depth of pass rush talent certainly in this draft but we can only afford to draft one as ar1888 stated. Too many other needs on D.

It is something we will have to address in the draft though as Barwin aside I don't think there is many 3-4 Pass Rushers OLBs available in FA 2013.

#4 The Peytonator

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:35 AM

If you're talking about edge rushers, I would disagree entirely. Mathis is just fine, Hughes has been excellent when called upon (just doesn't get the amount of snaps that Freeney does), and I have liked what I've seen from Hickman. Freeney will likely be gone, but I can not justify spending one of our 3 picks on a situational pass rusher.

If you're talking about inside pass rushers, I can't argue there. Redding and Nevis are both decent but nobody else offers much there. Henry Melton is at the top of my Free Agent shopping list if Chicago doesn't pay him.

#5 SteelCityColt

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:54 AM

If you're talking about edge rushers, I would disagree entirely. Mathis is just fine, Hughes has been excellent when called upon (just doesn't get the amount of snaps that Freeney does), and I have liked what I've seen from Hickman. Freeney will likely be gone, but I can not justify spending one of our 3 picks on a situational pass rusher.

If you're talking about inside pass rushers, I can't argue there. Redding and Nevis are both decent but nobody else offers much there. Henry Melton is at the top of my Free Agent shopping list if Chicago doesn't pay him.


I know this will come across as me sounding stupid, but I take it by situational they are rotated out on obvious running plays etc. Sorry I don't always pay attention to the numbers on the field with everything going on so I don't always notice whose coming in our out. It seems that at least one of Hughes/Matthis/Freeney is on every down.

Either way, Freeney will be gone (unless he feels charitable and even then has he shown enough?), Hughes has shown bursts but has also done a few stupid things this year that he was lucky to get away with. Matthis has been quite good considering the transition. That and a overall lack of push rush (see Pats game) does make me think if there is a star on the board why not? BPA on defense would be a sensible general draft strategy.

Will we be getting back any compensatory picks this year?

#6 The Peytonator

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:09 AM

I know this will come across as me sounding stupid, but I take it by situational they are rotated out on obvious running plays etc. Sorry I don't always pay attention to the numbers on the field with everything going on so I don't always notice whose coming in our out. It seems that at least one of Hughes/Matthis/Freeney is on every down.

Either way, Freeney will be gone (unless he feels charitable and even then has he shown enough?), Hughes has shown bursts but has also done a few stupid things this year that he was lucky to get away with. Matthis has been quite good considering the transition. That and a overall lack of push rush (see Pats game) does make me think if there is a star on the board why not? BPA on defense would be a sensible general draft strategy.

Will we be getting back any compensatory picks this year?


'Situational' was probably not the right word. Freeney is the only one I would consider 'situational' since the other guys play the run better....although Freeney's been better this year in that regard. You are right though, two of these guys are in on every down. I feel like the OLB position could be filled more easily by other avenues than the draft; CFL, other team's cuts, UDFAs, etc. I just want to get a real shutdown corner in the draft, you can't find those on other team's practice squads.

https://www.profootb...g-productivity/

Mathis and Hughes are both in the top 20 as far as 'pressure per pass rush snap'. Honestly the only thing one can measure a pass rusher by. We have nobody in the top 20 for inside rushers, but 2 in the bottom 20.

#7 SteelCityColt

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

I agree about CB, and also about their rarity though I think if you suggest drafting a CB first you might be ridiculed by some on here. I don't think we've seen enough from Davis to show if he is the answer, Butler could be a real steal but again hasn't shown in conclusively, Vaughan is never going to be a shutdown corner.

There is however more options I think in FA for CB than OLB, but I wouldn't discount drafting one certainly.

#8 The Peytonator

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:25 AM

I agree about CB, and also about their rarity though I think if you suggest drafting a CB first you might be ridiculed by some on here. I don't think we've seen enough from Davis to show if he is the answer, Butler could be a real steal but again hasn't shown in conclusively, Vaughan is never going to be a shutdown corner.

There is however more options I think in FA for CB than OLB, but I wouldn't discount drafting one certainly.


Yeah, I do seem to be the only one harping on the necessity of bringing in a real corner. There are some decent corners in FA, but a lot of 'big name' ones that probably wouldn't be worth it; Rodgers-Cromartie, Mike Jenkins, Sean Smith....I know we haven't seen much from Davis, but if we had a real #1 opposite him, he would make for about the best #2 in the league. Butler would be an excellent Nickel corner, but there's a reason he was cut from 2 different rosters after being a 2nd round pick....gives up a lot of completions, unless he's playing against Blaine Gabbert.

#9 tfunky14

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:05 AM

we do...???

#10 HarassedOffTheSite

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:41 AM

imho

We NEED a NT that can command the double team and two good DEs.

Our designated pass rushers (LBs) are just fine.


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#11 Andy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:06 PM

I thought that last game the pass rush was very good.

This season, it's been inconsistent, but there have also been many injuries. Mathis and Freeney have only played for 2 games together. Hughes hasn't been horrible. Mathis is having a solid year despite missing a few games. Freeney had a good game last week and has had some good games this year.

I don't think we need to start spending time and money and picks on pass rushers.

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#12 TKnight24

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:09 PM

imho

We NEED a NT that can command the double team and two good DEs.

Our designated pass rushers (LBs) are just fine.


That NT got placed on Ir & won't be with us till next season

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#13 TKnight24

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:10 PM

I say we draft CB's. Who needs a Pass Rush when the QB has no one to throw to? Pass Rush has to eventually get there right? (That's how it is for me in NCAA 13 lol)

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#14 Andy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

I say we draft CB's. Who needs a Pass Rush when the QB has no one to throw to? Pass Rush has to eventually get there right? (That's how it is for me in NCAA 13 lol)


He'll always have someone to throw to if no one pressures the QB. The rule of thumb is that the DBs have 5 seconds of so before the receivers start getting open... that is if they have good coverage.

I agree that we should draft a CB, but not for that reason. We already have some good pass rushers (Mathis is still performing, and Freeney has been better as of late).

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#15 TKnight24

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:31 PM

He'll always have someone to throw to if no one pressures the QB. The rule of thumb is that the DBs have 5 seconds of so before the receivers start getting open... that is if they have good coverage.

I agree that we should draft a CB, but not for that reason. We already have some good pass rushers (Mathis is still performing, and Freeney has been better as of late).


I know, just a Video Game Joke. But we should definitely get our Pass Rush together. Cause as we all seen in the Cardinal vs Rams Games this Year..... A Pass Rush will make a CB look Good. Janoris Jenkins looked like a Shutdown CB in BOTH Games due to the Pass Rush & of course poor play by the Cardinals QB's

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#16 Stephen

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

we need more sacks and forced fumbles this team is lacking that killer instinct on d and then when we do get turnovers we hand it back to other team

#17 TKnight24

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

we need more sacks and forced fumbles this team is lacking that killer instinct on d and then when we do get turnovers we hand it back to other team


Mr. Zibikowski smh

I just don't understand that Play

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#18 Gavin

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

We need Corners that belong on an NFL football field, outside Vontae (who pre injury seemingly left his skills in Miami sad to say)we have no Corners, We can have all the pass rushers we want but if you have Corners that cant jam a wr then offenses can just slant you to death while using other quick passing routes and make your pass rushers irrelevant, compound that with Safeties that have there Hit Stick broken and teams will just dink and dunk our butts all way down the field which means a slow very aggravating death, Our problem is Corners(we have been playing without any Corners all year long) and no Safety that will lay a big hit on Wr's that go over the middle

#19 TKnight24

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:43 PM

Well, since everyone here seems to agree we need a few more Pass Rushers...... I've put together my list of potential players who will be available when we go on the Clock in the Draft

1. Jackson Jeffcoat(DE)- Texas

2. Alex Okafor(DE)- Texas

3. Ashton Dorsey (DT)- Texas

4. Jordan Hicks (LB)- Texas

5. Barkevious Mingo- LSU

6. Sam Montgomery- LSU

These are my Top Picks. If you now anyone else, feel Free to add to the List

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#20 TKnight24

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:44 PM

Safeties that can be Drafted to Us:

Kenny Vacarro- Texas

Matt Elam- Florida

Some Alabama Safety

Eric Reid- LSU

Evans- Florida

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#21 Gavin

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

I know, just a Video Game Joke. But we should definitely get our Pass Rush together. Cause as we all seen in the Cardinal vs Rams Games this Year..... A Pass Rush will make a CB look Good. Janoris Jenkins looked like a Shutdown CB in BOTH Games due to the Pass Rush & of course poor play by the Cardinals QB's

Thing is Jenkins has that talent to be a shutdown Corner, he is a rookie. He would be an upgrade over any Corner we have to this point not named Vontae, Jenkins is a rookie and playing quite possibly the hardest position on the field along with QB. I also disagree that a strong pass rush will always make your Corners look better. If that was always the case then our secondary would have been extremely good over the last 10 or so years and many of those years we were awful in yards given up and completion percentage, Now ya obviously need pass rushers cause they certainly help but they go hand in hand without Corners your pass rush suffers, Giants, Vikings and Cowboys were all in the bottom 10 or so in the league in yards through the air given up last year but all had 40 or more sacks (Vikings led the league with 50)

#22 TKnight24

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:06 PM

Thing is Jenkins has that talent to be a shutdown Corner, he is a rookie. He would be an upgrade over any Corner we have to this point not named Vontae, Jenkins is a rookie and playing quite possibly the hardest position on the field along with QB. I also disagree that a strong pass rush will always make your Corners look better. If that was always the case then our secondary would have been extremely good over the last 10 or so years and many of those years we were awful in yards given up and completion percentage, Now ya obviously need pass rushers cause they certainly help but they go hand in hand without Corners your pass rush suffers, Giants, Vikings and Cowboys were all in the bottom 10 or so in the league in yards through the air given up last year but all had 40 or more sacks (Vikings led the league with 50)


The past Decade, we didn't have a Pass Rush. A Pass Rush is a "Team" effort. We had Freeney & Mathis. How many times did we see the Game come down to the Wire & Freeney (Usually Him) or Mathis get that Strip Sack & we end the game like that?

That is the BIGGEST Reason why I was Glad when we switched to the 3-4. I got tired fo Freeney & Mathis bailing our Defense out in Crunch Time Situations. They're both Great Players, but they shouldn't be the only ones making Turnovers. When we announced we were running the 3-4, I knew it'd be a change in direction. A chance to bring more players in who could do something (Like Freeman, Nevis, Redding, Etc.) more people are contributing to this Defense now. I know we're not the best Defense, but we make plays when we need to.

And as Freeney & Mathis careers wind won, we're heading into the right direction with this new defense

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#23 throwing BBZ

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:23 PM

Be Great to get a NT who can shuck a blocker AND get push, supply pressure. You don`t have to get sacks to scare the .... out of a QB just get in his FACE.
And stick that arm up!
AJohnson is Terrible at that.
Chapman was known for being stout but not for getting push. Would have been nice to see him healthy this season so we could see, Ijalna too.

Freeney is Nothing more than a body out there, so it`s good to let younger guys get lots of action.

And yes we do desperately need a very athletic 6'4" or taller, 250lb + pass rushing OLB next year.

And a...
CB
S
and Guards who are good at Pulling, pass & run blocking :help:

That is 6 players/positions. Might be hard to do in one off season, but doable in two. IMO.
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#24 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:53 PM

all great defenses start with a pass rush.

#25 Superman

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:57 PM

That and a overall lack of push rush (see Pats game) does make me think if there is a star on the board why not? BPA on defense would be a sensible general draft strategy.

Will we be getting back any compensatory picks this year?


I don't think we lacked a pass rush against the Pats. I think they did a masterful job of getting receivers open before our rush got there, and Tom Brady is one of the absolute best at staying away from pressure in the pocket.

I'm of the opinion that you can never have too many players who can rush the passer, so if there's a prospect available in the draft, I'd love for us to grab him in a later round. But I don't think it's a position of particular need right now. Maybe it will be once Freeney is gone (and at this point, I'm assuming he will be).

As for compensatory picks, I think we might get one for Garcon, and maybe an extra one at the end of the 7th round, but that's it. And given our anticipated draft status, we probably don't get an extra one at the end of the 7th round, unless more than 32 compensatory picks are awarded.
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#26 SteelCityColt

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:08 PM

Fair point, as you say the defense is a unit as a whole and no matter how good the pass rush is if the secondary is poor they won't get there in time, it just seemed like he had an ice age on which to step up and throw.

So looking at it we will more than likely have 1,3,4,5?(Garçon), maybe a 6 back from the Davis trade? Not fussed about a 7 as its pretty much UDFA level anyway. Any value from trading down the 1 has gone now, it could be a tough sophomore season if we don't get FA right.


Unless a lot changes in the next few months in both level of play and monetary demands I can't see Freeney being a Colt ext season, though it saddens me greatly. Hughes hasn't shown enough for me, so I think we're one OLB short at least.

CB and safety I agree are also areas of concern. If we do draft a CB the 1 pick might have to be used to get a suitably talented prospect though decent ones can fall. Problem is when someone falls its normally for a good reason.



#27 SteelCityColt

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

Sorry I was only trying to edit my previous post, silly phone! Delete please.

#28 Truckin Sanders

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:09 PM

In other news water is wet
Playoffs 2015

#29 SteelCityColt

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:15 PM

Technically you can get "dry" water :P

#30 JoKeR

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:36 PM

Mr. Zibikowski smh

I just don't understand that Play

It's easy, he was trying to make a play, he should trust his ball security, he returns kicks.






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