arians vs pagano

[CR91]

do you guys think we'd be 7-4 if pagano was coaching instead of arians

[JoKeR]

I think our record might be better by a game, maybe 2. I wish we could replay the Jets. But who knows.

[chad72]

Knowing that Pagano is an ex-DC (for just 1 year, he has been secondary coach longer) and that Arians has more experience coaching in the NFL as a co-ordinator, I am definitely leaning towards Arians here.

Yes, I do think Arians motivates better. He has a flair for the dramatic in his speeches and I do think his no-nonsense approach gets through to the young ones who need a "Mad Max" coach like him.

Pagano, being a defensive coach (like Dungy, Cowher, John Fox), there could have been an element of conservatism in him that would have minimized risk but also minimized reward in our offense during its infancy, IMO. Once an offense is established, things could be viewed differently by all coaches. Our offense was/is far from established, that is why Arians was the right guy at the right time, IMO. Dungy came in when the offense was a bit more established, not the case with Pagano.

[gbrads_rants]

Knowing that Pagano is an ex-DC (for just 1 year, he has been secondary coach longer) and that Arians has more experience coaching in the NFL as a co-ordinator, I am definitely leaning towards Arians here.

I think when Chuck gets back at it next year Manusky needs to be removed from the mix and they work like that....

[YOUR GM]

I think when Chuck gets back at it next year Manusky needs to be removed from the mix and they work like that....

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. If anything, Manusky has proven to be the better of the 2 coordinators hired by Pagano, in my opinion. With the amount of injuries we sustained on defense (on a roster already deprived of talent) Manusky has done a fine job with this unit. Arians is a good "Rah! Rah! Fight! Fight!" motivational guy, but his coaching, both situationally and schematically, leaves a lot to be desired.

I think it's fruitless to speculate how good we would be if Chuck were coaching. A lot of our strength comes from the motivation of him beating this illness, so I'm not so sure it's fair to give Arians as much credit. A lot of Arians influence over the team came through the them wanting to rally around a common cause -- Chuck. If he didn't have that, would his message still be as effective?.... See what I mean?

[TKnight24]

It would depend..... The reality of it is, we're only playing like this because of Coaches Lukemia. We're 6-2 since it was announced that he had it. You do the math.

But I just wish Arians would live up to what he says. He said that we'd treat yesterday's game like a Playoff game but we got a bit conservative. When you're in the Playoffs, you keep pouring it on. We definitely left some points on that field. But none the less, we got the W

[Superman]

I think the circumstances have helped Arians very much. I don't believe in all that "playing for a higher purpose" or "team of destiny" type stuff; I think football is football. But there's no question that the team has responded well to the circumstances and continued to buy in to the message that Pagano set forth, that Arians has continued to preach. Maybe that would have been the case with Pagano still here, but I don't know. I do think -- and I said this before the season started -- that the team isn't as horrible as they were expected to be. We were underestimated by the talking heads for quite some time.

What I wonder about is whether Pagano would have been as liberal and aggressive on fourth down as Arians has been. There were a couple situations before Pagano left where I thought he missed opportunities to go for high percentage fourth down conversions with favorable field position (+45). Arians has been more willing to go for those, overall. He's passed up on some, but I get the feeling he has been more aggressive than Pagano would have been.

On the flip side, I think Pagano's game management and use of timeouts probably would have been better than Arians', if for no other reason than that he wouldn't have been trying to call plays and manage timeouts and the clock during an end of half situation, like the one Arians bungled last week against the Pats. We probably still wouldn't have won that game, but if we had handled the clock better and tied it up, the second half might have been a little different.

So it's probably six in one hand, half-dozen in the other. I like Arians much more as a head coach than I do as a play caller, and I think if he were the top guy somewhere and were to relinquish offensive play calling duties, he might be able to get a team to make some serious improvement overall. His guys like him, they buy in, and he has kind of a mad scientist quality to him that just seems to work. It would probably wear off within a couple of years, sort of like Mike Martz. But if I were a GM looking to jump start a rebuilding team (Browns, Chiefs, Jags), I would at least try to interview him.

[chad72]

A lot of Arians influence over the team came through the them wanting to rally around a common cause -- Chuck. If he didn't have that, would his message still be as effective?.... See what I mean?

Are you suggesting "we are milking Pagano's illness as much as we can" albeit for good reasons??? (j/k)

[NewColtsFan]

do you guys think we'd be 7-4 if pagano was coaching instead of arians

Yes, I think the Colts would be 7-4 if Pagano were the coach.

For any other related thoughts, please see Superman's post.

[adfisher870]

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. If anything, Manusky has proven to be the better of the 2 coordinators hired by Pagano, in my opinion. With the amount of injuries we sustained on defense (on a roster already deprived of talent) Manusky has done a fine job with this unit. Arians is a good "Rah! Rah! Fight! Fight!" motivational guy, but his coaching, both situationally and schematically, leaves a lot to be desired.

I think it's fruitless to speculate how good we would be if Chuck were coaching. A lot of our strength comes from the motivation of him beating this illness, so I'm not so sure it's fair to give Arians as much credit. A lot of Arians influence over the team came through the them wanting to rally around a common cause -- Chuck. If he didn't have that, would his message still be as effective?.... See what I mean?

Manusky has done a good job given that half of defensive side of the ball arent "3-4 player" in the offseason with all that money and thru the draft they will be able to insert pieces to better fit the scheme. My biggest worry is a team will lure BA away to become a head coach. He needs to be there to help develop luck more. If they can keep this coaching staff intact for a few years i think you could great thing come from this organization.

[Superman]

Manusky has done a good job given that half of defensive side of the ball arent "3-4 player" in the offseason with all that money and thru the draft they will be able to insert pieces to better fit the scheme. My biggest worry is a team will lure BA away to become a head coach. He needs to be there to help develop luck more. If they can keep this coaching staff intact for a few years i think you could great thing come from this organization.

I'm not too worried about the overall defensive results, because like you say, we don't have the personnel necessary. We have some of it, and that includes some pretty good players, but Manusky has been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole in certain instances. Playing Nevis at five tech is an example of that.

(By the way, did anyone else notice how much four-down we played yesterday, especially in the second half?)

However, there are still fair ways to assess Manusky's performance. I think it's gotten better as the season has gone on, which is a positive thing. In our last five wins, we've given up 13.8 points a game. That's elite; the Niners and Bears were both giving up about 14 points a game as of last week. That's the number that really matters. And we've been pretty solid on third down as well. But that's against some lower tier opposition. We've been shredded by good quarterbacks. Even against Hasselbeck and the Titans, our pass defense was substandard.

There's plenty of room for improvement, despite the personnel shortcomings.

[GoColts8818]

No way to honestly know. This team has really rallied around the chuckstrong thing and getting one more game for Pagano to coach. If he was healthy that goes away and there is no way of knowing how that has fully impacted the team.

[neverstop1863]

It would depend..... The reality of it is, we're only playing like this because of Coaches Lukemia. We're 6-2 since it was announced that he had it. You do the math.

But I just wish Arians would live up to what he says. He said that we'd treat yesterday's game like a Playoff game but we got a bit conservative. When you're in the Playoffs, you keep pouring it on. We definitely left some points on that field. But none the less, we got the W

Is this a serious topic? Have some respect......we are where we are because of the play that our players leave on the field every game, yea maybe we have a little bit more to play for if you wanna look at it that way, our guys may be putting forth a little more effort to win for our coach but it isn't why we are sitting in this position. To say that we are winning because our coach has leukemia is straight nonsense.........

[GoColts8818]

It would depend..... The reality of it is, we're only playing like this because of Coaches Lukemia. We're 6-2 since it was announced that he had it. You do the math.

But I just wish Arians would live up to what he says. He said that we'd treat yesterday's game like a Playoff game but we got a bit conservative. When you're in the Playoffs, you keep pouring it on. We definitely left some points on that field. But none the less, we got the W

Conservative? We were throwing the ball at the end of the game with the lead and the other team out of timeouts when we could have just bleed the clock and punted it back to them. That's playing conservative. They were going for it at the end of the game to the point several people have been critical of it that's anything but conservative.

Not executing well enough when you have a chance to score points does not equal playing conservative.

[CR91]

Is this a serious topic? Have some respect......we are where we are because of the play that our players leave on the field every game, yea maybe we have a little bit more to play for if you wanna look at it that way, our guys may be putting forth a little more effort to win for our coach but it isn't why we are sitting in this position. To say that we are winning because our coach has leukemia is straight nonsense.........

the topic isnt to suggest we're playing better because pagano has leukemia. its whether or not we'd have the same success if pagano never got sick.

[GoColts8818]

the topic isnt to suggest we're playing better because pagano has leukemia. its whether or not we'd have the same success if pagano never got sick.

Again no real way to know because it's clear that the Colts have rallied around Pagano and bought into the Chuckstrong/get one more game for Chuck thing. No way of knowing what would have happened had he not gotten sick.

[neverstop1863]

the topic isnt to suggest we're playing better because pagano has leukemia. its whether or not we'd have the same success if pagano never got sick.

sorry i didn't mean the OP's original post was leaning toward this, it was the post i quoted that stated we were 6-2 since the announcement of our coaches illness....

[oldunclemark]

do you guys think we'd be 7-4 if pagano was coaching instead of arians

Pagano is coaching..he just isnt on the sidleines

[bayone]

It would depend..... The reality of it is, we're only playing like this because of Coaches Lukemia. We're 6-2 since it was announced that he had it. You do the math.

But I just wish Arians would live up to what he says. He said that we'd treat yesterday's game like a Playoff game but we got a bit conservative. When you're in the Playoffs, you keep pouring it on. We definitely left some points on that field. But none the less, we got the W

Paganos illness has been an emotional motivator for sure, he was only the coach for a few games which were the first for an entirely new team in reality , so he never had the benefit Arians did by seeing all the new faces in real game situations in order to make them play as a better team so in reality its not a fair qusetion as the history he has as a coach is nill & only with a games with a basically rookie team right out of the startring gate

U cant simply go by the math of wins & loses

[TKnight24]

Conservative? We were throwing the ball at the end of the game with the lead and the other team out of timeouts when we could have just bleed the clock and punted it back to them. That's playing conservative. They were going for it at the end of the game to the point several people have been critical of it that's anything but conservative.

Not executing well enough when you have a chance to score points does not equal playing conservative.

Idk, I go by what the people in Chat Room say. I haven't seen any of our games since the JAX Thursday Nighter. (Due to the area I'm in) So I just base my statements on what I see in the chat.

[TKnight24]

Paganos illness has been an emotional motivator for sure, he was only the coach for a few games which were the first for an entirely new team in reality , so he never had the benefit Arians did by seeing all the new faces in real game situations in order to make them play as a better team so in reality its not a fair qusetion as the history he has as a coach is nill & only with a games with a basically rookie team right out of the startring gate

U cant simply go by the math of wins & loses

Is this a serious topic? Have some respect......we are where we are because of the play that our players leave on the field every game, yea maybe we have a little bit more to play for if you wanna look at it that way, our guys may be putting forth a little more effort to win for our coach but it isn't why we are sitting in this position. To say that we are winning because our coach has leukemia is straight nonsense.........

Maybe you misunderstood me. I meant that we're playing with more Intensity & Purpose because of the Chuck situation. Yes, we're Talented... but there's more Motivation to this team because of Chuck. You know we're Talented when a Rookie sets History by having a PR TD & Rec TD in the SAME Game for the 1st time ever. The talent is definitely there.

And because of that, we've been 6-2 since Chuck was diagnosed & we're STILL Fighting each & every game.

This is all I was saying & sorry if you misunderstood me or got offended by it

[Old Colt]

I think our record might be better by a game, maybe 2. I wish we could replay the Jets. But who knows.

And the Jags 1st game.....

or maybe just the last minute of the 1st game......

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Nobody knows nor ever will. So why waste time and energy considering it? The Head Coach of the Indianapolis Colts is Chuck Pagano.

[bayone]

Maybe you misunderstood me. I meant that we're playing with more Intensity & Purpose because of the Chuck situation. Yes, we're Talented... but there's more Motivation to this team because of Chuck. You know we're Talented when a Rookie sets History by having a PR TD & Rec TD in the SAME Game for the 1st time ever. The talent is definitely there.

And because of that, we've been 6-2 since Chuck was diagnosed & we're STILL Fighting each & every game.

This is all I was saying & sorry if you misunderstood me or got offended by it

I agree with u , never didf i mean to degrade our players achievements,, maybe I wasnt clear

[Jules]

Mike Chappell ‏@mchappell51

Arians: being involved with team is incredible medicine for pagano. fabulous medicine to help a person get well.

Mike Chappell ‏@mchappell51

Arians: if chuck comes back this year, he'll be the head coach and take over.

Mike Chappell ‏@mchappell51

Arians: players love chuck. that's what's bonded our football team

Mike Chappell ‏@mchappell51

Arians: each game becomes more important. the goal is in sight. extend the season so chuck pagano can come back. this is his team

Phillip B Wilson ‏@pwilson24

If Chuck Pagano comes back as #Colts head coach, B.A. says Pagano would take over. B.A. has said team hopes to have him back Dec. 30th.