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Ohio Colt

not seeing it with my boy luck

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I'm not one for padding stats, but we barely ever dink and dunk pass (like RG3 does mostly). We keep trying to throw these deep routes that take hours to develop and with our Offensive line, the defense is in Luck's face before the route is even done running. Arians should've figured this out by now.

Why are we not throwing out patterns to Ballard and/or Brown like 5 times a game?!?

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RG3 is in a gimmick offense where he's running the option and most of the time throwing through huge windows because the D is biting on playaction . But he is exciting and is completing 70% of his passes and had an incredible in/td ratio. That's what I meant about Luck not matching his stats. And RG3 throws a better deep ball.

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plus alot of drops

I agree, too many drops. You can see Luck playing like a rookie but you can at the same time see a tone of natural ability and a strong desire to win. He remionds mre of a rookie Rothlesberger.

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If the giants play next week like they played this week, we will see just how good griffin really is under pressure.

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I have seen nothing posted positive of Luck from at least 3 of the posters in this thread and ohiocolt being #1 in negative talk against Luck. I still think people have Peyton Manning blinders and find fault with a rookie QB because of it.

Luck has people either in his face, hanging on his back or forced to run from pressure and has led this team to 7 wins. He has Wayne as an excellent we to throw to but then what else is there that is a strong option to throw to? A lot of rookie guys that's who. An oline that one started may land a starters Job on most other teams in this league in AC. A defense that does not score for him nor do they change field position for him. A special teams that has one TD (yesterday) and a whole lot of stars behind the 20 yard line. A coach that expects 30-40 yard patterns with an oline that holds for a 3 yard slant time.

So, despite all the facts that this team has 1 star on offense with Wayne and a rookie qb with a whole new system that everyone had to learn, you still figure that Luck is playing bad and all? Just look at it like this, last year, this team had way more talent on offense but they had a 2-14 record. It was because of bad QB play mostly but that's my point, last year was the definition of bad QB play, luck is not.

I'm concerned about red zone scoring but not as much with Luck as I am with play calling. Luck has shown he is a solid leader. Luck has shown he can make all the throws. Luck has shown progression in accuracy in all passes from week one to now. Luck is up in a lot of stats if that is the biggest concern to you Luck bellyachers. Luck is the farthest of concerns from me on this team this year and I would have expected him to make more mistakes but he just is years ahead from where we were when Manning started his career and people think that guy is the GOAT so just watch the kid elevate as a team is put up around him.

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Too sloppy, missing too many throws.

I like Luck, I know he'll be extraordinary... but he has not been all that good this season save about 2-3 games. He gets a huge free pass within the media. He needs to be a LOT better. Anyone who has read my posts knows I'm big on Luck both for now and in the future but I don't see what the experts are forcing themselves to see. He's not playing that good of football.

In my opinion, Arians is ruining the kid. He's taken a guy who, coming out of college, was compared to Peyton Manning for his ability dissect a defense by making the credit reads more times than not, and turned him into Brett "f--- it, let it fly" Favre. There's no such thing as a hot read or an outlet pass in this offense.

At first I thought Luck would benefit from Arians, for no other reason than the fact that he's had a good track record of developing QB's. Now, I'm not so sure I even want Luck associated with him on any level at this point. To me, 11 games into the season, we should start seeing the game slow down a little for Luck, but it appears as if he's making the same mistakes he's been making since preseason. Part of it is the fact that this is a young offense at numerous positions, but the other part is Arians refusal to adjust the gameplan, knowing we don't have the players to block for the kind of offense he wants to run right now. As a result, Luck has developed bad habits because of the constant pressure he is under.

Something has got to give. Luck is either going to get hurt or he's going to plateau in his development as long as Arians is in the picture.

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It's not fair to Andrew Luck but he's being compared three-fold. First of all some seem to want to compare him to Manning whether that is the rookie version or the current version and either comparison has multiple flaws on many levels. Some are obviously comparing him to RGIII, a talented rookie, who many attempt to put down or discredit with every chance they get. Finally he's compared against the unprecedented hype that preceded him.

His interim head coach/offensive coordinator hasn't done him any favors, and his #'s are not likely ever going to be as pretty as some want based on the offensive scheme alone. The risk/reward of the deeper routes will have some payoffs and they will have some mistakes and errors. That has been dissected in great detail in many other threads, and you are either happy with the concepts Arians is sending out there or you aren't. After a W or a decent game more will be happy with that part of it, after an L or a disappointing performance more will view it negatively.

I believe it's irresponsible to compare '98 Manning and/or '12 Manning to the '12 Luck, yet people seem to want to do it at every bounce of the ball.

Luck vs. the hype, it will be hard for him to meet/exceed the hype that surrounded him entering the league. The top QB that enters the league in 2022 will be hyped even more because the media will continue to evolve and grow, just as it has for the past 10 & 20 year spans. Some will argue that he is as advertised, some will say he's exceeded expectations and some will say that he hasn't. Personally I feel he's done each of those in certain factors of the game. Overall he has shown some glimpses of greatness, yet he is still inconsistent but if the scheme remains in place, he'll still have more inconsistent games in 4-5 years being in this offense than he would in most others. There will be some games where he shines and some games where he doesn't get the job done. Roethlisberger was all over the place too. More good games than bad, but the scheme invites some negative plays. High Risk/High Reward offenses do that to a quarterback.

This OL is better than the OL over the past 4-5 years. They would look a lot better than they are with a better scheme that would ask the QB to make quicker reads and get rid of the ball quicker. So some of the pressure that Luck faces is self-inflicted from a schematic point of view, and part of it is that he isn't as decisive as he will be in 5 years or what the fan base is used to.

Fair or not, it's the hand he's been dealt and people are going to compare him to RGIII until one fades away, if either fades away. Manning/Leaf would have remained a popular debate if Leaf hadn't flaked out of the league.

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Good points FJC, but isn't calling the comparisons between Rookie 18 v Rookie 12 "irresponsible" a little heavy handed?

I don't think there's much point comparing Luck to anything other than his own record and his recorded performances.

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While I want the best of all worlds, I will take 3 SB wins while having a qb with stats just under a qb who sits at home for the playoffs anyday.

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Luck is asked to do a lot with very little. He's reading defenses and throwing the ball down the field and not just to his first or second read. Rg3 throws a lot of short passes and his WR make plays. His first read is usually wide open for a quick pass and they do the rest. He's not forced to read defenses like luck and he has a very good ground game. Luck is doing great considering new coach, players, and scheme. We won two games last year and have already won 7 and are most likely getting into the playoffs. Luck has done far more than anyone could of expected from him.

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It's not fair to Andrew Luck but he's being compared three-fold. First of all some seem to want to compare him to Manning whether that is the rookie version or the current version and either comparison has multiple flaws on many levels. Some are obviously comparing him to RGIII, a talented rookie, who many attempt to put down or discredit with every chance they get. Finally he's compared against the unprecedented hype that preceded him.

His interim head coach/offensive coordinator hasn't done him any favors, and his #'s are not likely ever going to be as pretty as some want based on the offensive scheme alone. The risk/reward of the deeper routes will have some payoffs and they will have some mistakes and errors. That has been dissected in great detail in many other threads, and you are either happy with the concepts Arians is sending out there or you aren't. After a W or a decent game more will be happy with that part of it, after an L or a disappointing performance more will view it negatively.

I believe it's irresponsible to compare '98 Manning and/or '12 Manning to the '12 Luck, yet people seem to want to do it at every bounce of the ball.

Luck vs. the hype, it will be hard for him to meet/exceed the hype that surrounded him entering the league. The top QB that enters the league in 2022 will be hyped even more because the media will continue to evolve and grow, just as it has for the past 10 & 20 year spans. Some will argue that he is as advertised, some will say he's exceeded expectations and some will say that he hasn't. Personally I feel he's done each of those in certain factors of the game. Overall he has shown some glimpses of greatness, yet he is still inconsistent but if the scheme remains in place, he'll still have more inconsistent games in 4-5 years being in this offense than he would in most others. There will be some games where he shines and some games where he doesn't get the job done. Roethlisberger was all over the place too. More good games than bad, but the scheme invites some negative plays. High Risk/High Reward offenses do that to a quarterback.

This OL is better than the OL over the past 4-5 years. They would look a lot better than they are with a better scheme that would ask the QB to make quicker reads and get rid of the ball quicker. So some of the pressure that Luck faces is self-inflicted from a schematic point of view, and part of it is that he isn't as decisive as he will be in 5 years or what the fan base is used to.

Fair or not, it's the hand he's been dealt and people are going to compare him to RGIII until one fades away, if either fades away. Manning/Leaf would have remained a popular debate if Leaf hadn't flaked out of the league.

Great explanation FJC.

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Luck is asked to do a lot with very little. He's reading defenses and throwing the ball down the field and not just to his first or second read. Rg3 throws a lot of short passes and his WR make plays. His first read is usually wide open for a quick pass and they do the rest. He's not forced to read defenses like luck and he has a very good ground game. Luck is doing great considering new coach, players, and scheme. We won two games last year and have already won 7 and are most likely getting into the playoffs. Luck has done far more than anyone could of expected from him.

This and FJCs post answers should answer your concerns OhioColtFan.

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Good points FJC, but isn't calling the comparisons between Rookie 18 v Rookie 12 "irresponsible" a little heavy handed?

I don't think there's much point comparing Luck to anything other than his own record and his recorded performances.

No, not in my opinion. Irresponsible was me using a nicer word than what really comes to mind. It is a different era, Comparing '12 Luck to an '08 Matt Ryan would be more logical since it would be closer to apples to apples in some instances. Manning played in a different era, just like it wouldn't be fair to compare Manning's rookie year to a quarterback in 1984... Even that was a different era than what Manning was playing in. Different rules, offenses are different, different teams. So to me it is a useless comparison, because you'll have some ignorant non-observer say that The Colts have won 7 games, and that's more than twice what Manning won, therefore Luck is twice the quarterback as Manning. Yesterday while following a game on cbssports.com, i saw a little blurb saying Tannehill surpassed Marino's rookie yardage total and that Weeden surpassed Tim Couch's rookie yardagae. A ) neither played a full year, B ) passing yards today are expected to be higher than when Marino/Couch were rookies. It's a nice little thing they can put on their resume, but to me it is unimportant.

I don't know how you compare Luck to himself, unless you are talking first 4 games vs. 2nd 4 games & 3rd 4 games, or something along those lines. Week to week it's hard to compare a player. Obviously yesterday was better than the previous week, but there is a bit of a difference in playing New England on the road and Buffalo at home.

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Good points FJC, but isn't calling the comparisons between Rookie 18 v Rookie 12 "irresponsible" a little heavy handed?

I don't think there's much point comparing Luck to anything other than his own record and his recorded performances.

Thing is in reality and especially in the entertainment business, fans, critics, media always want the next best thing and that magnifies when that previous best thing will one day go down as the best QB to ever walk the planet,

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This and FJCs post answers should answer your concerns OhioColtFan.

Well, keep in mind some are more interested in a prettier stat line than W's. Some seem disappointed that Luck failed to throw TD passes in the wins vs. Cleveland & Jacksonville. It seems some would have preferred 300 yards and 2+ touchdown passes in a loss.

On the other hand there are a number of Luck fans in their first year supporting the Colts, so I can begin to understand that concept.

Some are either two infatuated with #'s or just look at them and didn't watch the game or fully understand that a player can have a better game than their #'s look.

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Well, keep in mind some are more interested in a prettier stat line than W's. Some seem disappointed that Luck failed to throw TD passes in the wins vs. Cleveland & Jacksonville. It seems some would have preferred 300 yards and 2+ touchdown passes in a loss.

On the other hand there are a number of Luck fans in their first year supporting the Colts, so I can begin to understand that concept.

Some are either two infatuated with #'s or just look at them and didn't watch the game or fully understand that a player can have a better game than their #'s look.

So very true. Don't get me wrong, I'm a stats guy, I love numbers but I can also understand that some systems (i.e the game of American Football) can't be completely quantified with stats. Soccer proper football is even worse for evaluating players on stats alone as it's such a free form sport. You could also argue that if everything can be defined by player stats that scouts wouldn't have a job....

Basing more then on what I've seen with my own eyes in watching the Colts games, you know you're watching something special. Yes he makes mistakes, but just as equally he pulls off plays that leave you scratching your head as how to he managed it. With respect to that some of the comparisons to Eli are not so far fetched as they both seem to have a knack of making something out of a impossible situation in games and then following it up with a mistake . It's almost like the old adage about poker in some respects, you only remember the bad beats, never the routine wins, because of the hype with Andrew, if he does do something good it's taken as this is what we expect.

I agree as well with large parts of the debate regarding the O system, yes it's getting results, but do I think it's the system to get the most out of this team now, no. However without Arians posting here himself we will never get true transparency as to reasons behind calls/schemes and can only play best guess. Sport is a results business and he's getting them right now so you can't argue with that, even if it does frustrate the heck out of me sometimes!

*Warning this post contains a high density of clichés*

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So very true. Don't get me wrong, I'm a stats guy, I love numbers but I can also understand that some systems (i.e the game of American Football) can't be completely quantified with stats. Soccer proper football is even worse for evaluating players on stats alone as it's such a free form sport. You could also argue that if everything can be defined by player stats that scouts wouldn't have a job....

Basing more then on what I've seen with my own eyes in watching the Colts games, you know you're watching something special. Yes he makes mistakes, but just as equally he pulls off plays that leave you scratching your head as how to he managed it. With respect to that some of the comparisons to Eli are not so far fetched as they both seem to have a knack of making something out of a impossible situation in games and then following it up with a mistake . It's almost like the old adage about poker in some respects, you only remember the bad beats, never the routine wins, because of the hype with Andrew, if he does do something good it's taken as this is what we expect.

I agree as well with large parts of the debate regarding the O system, yes it's getting results, but do I think it's the system to get the most out of this team now, no. However without Arians posting here himself we will never get true transparency as to reasons behind calls/schemes and can only play best guess. Sport is a results business and he's getting them right now so you can't argue with that, even if it does frustrate the heck out of me sometimes!

*Warning this post contains a high density of clichés*

I'm a fan of #'s too and enjoy looking at them and using them as a tool for analysis, but a 200 yard day passing with 0 td's out of my QB in a win is far better than him throwing for 300 yards & 3 touchdowns in a loss. I'm sure the fans that are here due to Vick Ballard would prefer a 28 point day to come on 4 scores from him, and the fans that are here due to Luck would prefer 4 td passes. That is just commonsense but some seem to have a prolific stat line as their main goal.

That's a a good point about the scouts, which is why it's more complicated than saying player a played D1 while player B played 1-AA, how would player b's 75% cmp rate in D1, or even in the SEC. Scouts will always be around whether there is advanced sabermetrics or not.

I don't really see the comparison to Eli, maybe Eli in his first couple of years but that might be about it. Someone on here, and he/she might no longer post here, said that Eli Manning was Luck's floor. Meaning that he was already as good as Eli and I'm certainly not buying that at all.

A coach shouldn't get into details of what he's thinking, an opponent could only use that down the line or the next time they played, but it's pretty clear Arians prefers the big play high risk/high reward type offense as opposed to one that could move the ball down the field more consistently. Right or wrong it is his style and some fans are going to love it and some are going to detest it, and others will only question it when it doesn't work. I know you weren't saying that he should be sharing his thoughts, but even though there are more wins than losses, and like you said it's a result based business, it won't stop the critiquing process. You could walk into work tomorrow and be given a 5% raise and appreciate it and then part of you might feel you deserved 10%. I guess it all depends on one's expectations. Some would love the 5%, some would be disappointed in only getting 5%. Personally, I think the offense would be better in a different scheme and 7 wins hasn't changed my mind, nor will 10 wins and a trip to the playoffs. There are many ways to get from point a to point b.

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I have been watching Luck with some concern during the past several games as well. I agree that Arians' offense needs to be adjusted to give Luck more check down options, but I am worried that he might be "hitting the rookie wall" because he has been asked to throw so many passes every game and he has now played 3 more games than he ever played in a year in college.

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A coach shouldn't get into details of what he's thinking, an opponent could only use that down the line or the next time they played, but it's pretty clear Arians prefers the big play high risk/high reward type offense as opposed to one that could move the ball down the field more consistently. Right or wrong it is his style and some fans are going to love it and some are going to detest it, and others will only question it when it doesn't work. I know you weren't saying that he should be sharing his thoughts, but even though there are more wins than losses, and like you said it's a result based business, it won't stop the critiquing process. You could walk into work tomorrow and be given a 5% raise and appreciate it and then part of you might feel you deserved 10%. I guess it all depends on one's expectations. Some would love the 5%, some would be disappointed in only getting 5%. Personally, I think the offense would be better in a different scheme and 7 wins hasn't changed my mind, nor will 10 wins and a trip to the playoffs. There are many ways to get from point a to point b.

All I ask/hope for is that Arians further develops and incorporates that ground attack element that the Steelers were often able to rely on when they needed it or simply chose to emphasize it.

I'm convinced that Andrew Luck will eventually be able to game-manage and play-call that type of offense AT LEAST as well as Big Ben....and with less risk-taking than he's forced to employ right now. That kind of balance plus the learning curve that Luck is well under way with as far as opposing defensive schemes would give me even more confidence for the future.

I hate to sound like a broken record....but predictability and tendencies in an offense, however well-executed and entertaining in the regular season, can and usually do spell early playoff exits. IMO....Luck clearly has all the smarts and the ability to avoid that, he just needs the weapons to do it with.

We're off to a better than expected start in the "Luck Era"....and 2-3 upgrades and some more balance on offense could really solidify things.

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I have been watching Luck with some concern during the past several games as well. I agree that Arians' offense needs to be adjusted to give Luck more check down options, but I am worried that he might be "hitting the rookie wall" because he has been asked to throw so many passes every game and he has now played 3 more games than he ever played in a year in college.

? Don't you play 12 games in college, not including bowl games?

Andrews only played 11 games this year so far.

Unless I am misinformed about the college game which is entirely possible since I never watch college football lol.

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Hello again FJC, thank you for such a detailed reply as always.

I've found it strange that the level of college you go to can make such a difference in your draft value. People develop at different rates and a so so freshman could turn into an excellent player. I guess it's because I'm used to more of a free market in sports people. That and the sheer scale of the college game means you can't scout them all.

I purely meant the Eli comparison from the point of view of they can pull off ridiculous highlight reel throws under pressure. I'd hope that he becomes a better QB than Eli long term. But then I also hope he's the love child incarnate of Peyton and Elway! It's hard to avoid comparisons but he is his own man and will define his own legacy, good or bad.

Finally I didn't mean to sound so naive re Arians explaining the system. I know it's all very cloak and dagger! It just would be nice to see the method behind the madness. I still struggle with the tactical side of the game and have to rely on the talking heads as sadly I have no experience of playing myself. Funny shaped balls and hitting people hard is limited to Rugby over here!

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i think he will flourish as well. I'm not worried - just thought I would be more impressed to this point.

Then I think you had your expectations set way too high. As Phil Simms said, "I won't grade Luck the way I would grade Brady."

The praise he "should" be getting is because folks shuold be grading him on the "rookie curve," where he should be getting somewhere around a B+ or A- IMO (RGIII would be an A+). If you were grading him on the "Brady/Manning curve," he'd get a C at best.

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All I ask/hope for is that Arians further develops and incorporates that ground attack element that the Steelers were often able to rely on when they needed it or simply chose to emphasize it.

I'm convinced that Andrew Luck will eventually be able to game-manage and play-call that type of offense AT LEAST as well as Big Ben....and with less risk-taking than he's forced to employ right now. That kind of balance plus the learning curve that Luck is well under way with as far as opposing defensive schemes would give me even more confidence for the future.

I hate to sound like a broken record....but predictability and tendencies in an offense, however well-executed and entertaining in the regular season, can and usually do spell early playoff exits. IMO....Luck clearly has all the smarts and the ability to avoid that, he just needs the weapons to do it with.

We're off to a better than expected start in the "Luck Era"....and 2-3 upgrades and some more balance on offense could really solidify things.

In my opinion that power running game that was in Pittsburgh was from Cowher and Whisenhunt who was the OC before Arians, so I am not holding my breath. Arians doesn't seem to favor that same mindset.

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he's not getting a lot of time in the pocket

Interesting what happened vs the Bills. I have a habit of counting off every snap to see how much time the QB has. Luck had more time vs the Bills (3+ secs most of the time) than any other game this year. It seemed to break his rythm or something because he just didn't look as sharp. Seems when he plays quicker, he dones better. He has only been getting 2+ secs for most of his previous snaps. Just an observation I thought I'd share.

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These RG3 to Luck & Peyton to Luck Comparisons are slowly killing me on the inside smh

Why can't the 3 of them just be their own player???

Give Luck time, he'll be fine. But it all starts with the O-line (Hey, that Rhymed) <--- That rhymed too haha

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He also seemed far worse at picking up the pressure than he has previously.

He didn't have a great game, but still if that's him on a bad day... I'll take it :)

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Not having a stand out C seems to be a problem as well, would Saturday been a better bet? I know it was unfeasible to keep him but would have been a big boost to Luck.

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Hello again FJC, thank you for such a detailed reply as always.

I've found it strange that the level of college you go to can make such a difference in your draft value. People develop at different rates and a so so freshman could turn into an excellent player. I guess it's because I'm used to more of a free market in sports people. That and the sheer scale of the college game means you can't scout them all.

I purely meant the Eli comparison from the point of view of they can pull off ridiculous highlight reel throws under pressure. I'd hope that he becomes a better QB than Eli long term. But then I also hope he's the love child incarnate of Peyton and Elway! It's hard to avoid comparisons but he is his own man and will define his own legacy, good or bad.

Finally I didn't mean to sound so naive re Arians explaining the system. I know it's all very cloak and dagger! It just would be nice to see the method behind the madness. I still struggle with the tactical side of the game and have to rely on the talking heads as sadly I have no experience of playing myself. Funny shaped balls and hitting people hard is limited to Rugby over here!

No doubt there is some hidden gems at lower levels. Back in 1995 or whatever it was when there was the baseball strike, I felt that teams should have just moved their minor league teams up a level. AAA to the majors, low A ball to high A ball, and have their lowest level team go out and sign 25-30 guys. I'm sure someone would have stuck around.

It's the same way in high school. Rarely do you have players from small schools, you'll find one every now and then, but for the most part the larger high schools get the bulk of recruits.

You could take two players and put one in D-1 and one in 1-AA, and they could be the same height/weight/40 time & every other attribute and same stats 65cmp % 25 td's 5 int,etc, and the argument is that if Player A does it against better/faster/stronger competition, then he is likely the better player.

That's just the nature of the beast. Even if Harnish would have out-performed Luck in camp/pre-season, even if he's head & shoulders above Luck, he wasn't going to start. It would take time for Luck to fail, a lot like Heath Shuler/Gus Freotte, or an injury like Bledsoe/Brady(even though some argue the change was inevitable). Draft status and where you played has a lot to do with the chances you are given. I can promise you that there are QB's at DII and DIII schools that are just as good as Painter, but weren't even given a shot at being a training camp body.

Some people do develop earlier in life. I played ball/grew up with a kid that was full grown in 8th grade. He was 5'9 and faster than most on the Midget football field, then people passed him and he was a 5'9 slow full back by the time he was a senior. Some kids mature more in their late teens/early 20's.

My father for example graduated high school at a 5'11 and 150lbs. Graduated, went to the Air Force and hit a few growth spurts and came out 4 years later and actually played for his high school coach who had taken the head job at a nearby college. The coach said he recognized the name but didn't recognize the 6'3 235lb player that was in front of him.

You just never know when it comes to scouting. I'm sure if each team doubled or tripled their scouting staff and could dig deeper into the smaller schools that you would find more players turning up from them.

Arians to me is a bit cocky so he says more than most coaches. Someone floated his quote about not being fond of the WCO, or not having many WCO tendencies, so the longer he's in front of a mic, the more I think he will share/say.

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I found personally that as I was always one of the undersized kids that I had to develop better technique and understand concepts like leverage. It stood me in good stead compared to guys who were used to being bigger and got caught up.

Back to topic I don't think anyone can argue with Luck's physical attributes. Perfect size for a QB?

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Luck will be an above average NFL QB IMO. He's not going to be great. Given what we have seen RG3 is the better of the two.

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I'm not a Colts fan, but I think Luck will be excellent and I think it's silly to constantly compare Luck and RG3. They're asked to do different things, on different teams, in different conferences, and will play each other only several times throughout their careers (hopefully in the Super Bowl). Luck is asked to hang in the pocket and make contested intermediate-to-deep throws because they don't have the speed and ability to get separation underneath and turn those passes into long gains, so the Colts must manufacture chunk yardage by forcing passes 10-19 yards and hoping for the best. And, even then, the receivers still struggle to get separation, so Luck has to wait just a little bit longer and then throw the pass, leading to a lot of contested passes.

Griffin benefits from having fast, athletic, and strong receivers, so his job is to place the ball out in front of the receiver so they can make a play. His excellent ball placement and accuracy was one of his top attributes coming out of college, as was his deep ball, which makes up the other large portion of the offense. Intermediate accuracy was his biggest quesiton mark coming out of college, and, lo-and-behold, that's the smallest part of the Redskins' offense. The slant routes off the zone read fake are the bread and better of the Skins' offense and so far Griffin has excelled at putting the ball in a position where the receiver can run up to it and break away from the defender for good YAC. That's why Joshua Morgan and Pierre Garçon were top targets in the off-season. And, of course, the deep ball is there because Griffin has done an excellent job looking off the safety.

So, the comparisons should end. They're not the same player, they'll never be the same player, and likely in five years' time or less they'll be the two best players at their position and will always alternate first- and second-team All-Pro, so give it a rest.

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Luck will be an above average NFL QB IMO. He's not going to be great. Given what we have seen RG3 is the better of the two.

There is no way to predict that but IMO luck has outplayed rg3. You won't agree if you look at the stats but I saw a stat where luck is 3rd in the league on average distance his passes travel. It was like 16 yards I believe. (Could be wrong) and rg3 was in the 20s. Rg3 doesn't have to read defenses. His first read is usually the pass he makes. He does a lot if quick slants and his WR make big plays. He doesn't have the pocket awareness luck has and IMO that's not even close. Luck is and will be the better qb. Rg3 is doing great right now but a lot of it is the system shanahan has put in place for rg3. Not to mention Morris is a stud rb and lb actually have to respect the play action pass.

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? Don't you play 12 games in college, not including bowl games?

Andrews only played 11 games this year so far.

Unless I am misinformed about the college game which is entirely possible since I never watch college football lol.

Actually, you are right about how many college games are played, but Luck has played 11 regular season games and 4 preseason games for a total of 15. No college that I know of plays preseason games.

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Actually, you are right about how many college games are played, but Luck has played 11 regular season games and 4 preseason games for a total of 15. No college that I know of plays preseason games.

Well technically he didn't play full games for the whole preseason, but understood :).

I didn't take preseason into account when I was doing my porous math lmao

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This is crazy talk... Luck is a ROOKIE who just passed for over 3,000 yds. in less than 2/3 of the season on a team where nobody outside our own fanbase could even name any WR on our team except Reggie a month ago. We may ride this rookie's back to the playoffs a year removed from showing what a badly built team we were, and immediately following a purge of our roster and a system change on both sides of the ball. Go back to our (optimistic) projections for Luck's season stats on this forum and you'll see that he is exceeding even our expectations in every category except maybe TD passes.......

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but who cares if the media gives Luck a pass? he's only taking over for the GOAT in a city with a fickle fan base to say the least... maybe the most pressure packed situation a rookie has ever stepped into, especially given the adversity the team has overcome up to this point...

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Here's what I think. There is some validity to all the talk about Arian's system not being the absolute best vehicle for Luck to be indoctrinated into the NFL with. None of us want him to get killed and all of us want him to win games and most of us want him to be thought of as the better QB between he and Griffin. The difference, I believe, is that a lot of you believe this system will "ruin" him in some form or fashion. Somebody mentioned David Carr who eventually retired from the league because he was virtually sacked to death and became a nervous QB in the pocket. I don't believe that Luck is capable of this happening to him. I think of all the virtues bestowed on him by the scouts, the one that may be his best is his iron will to get it done. In that sense, he DOES compare with Peyton and Brady. He will, good or bad, learn this system or whatever system he is in next year and he will be great. That's what I think at least.

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Is Carr still at the Giants?

Patchy O line or not, 26 sacks isn't too bad, certainly not the trauma that Carr had. I'd go as far to say his rush avoidance has been the been his most impressive skill so far.

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darn, kid is on pace for something like 4600 yards which would shatter the rookie record, has a 2-14 team gutted from last year sitting at 7-4 and people still aren't happy? If Brady had those stats his rookie season I would be doing back flips. You should head over to the Pats board...nothing but praise for the guy. Even though the loss was ugly we are all hoping to have a replacement like that for Brady (not sure what we have with Mallett).

What I'm seeing here, just a perspective from an outside fan, the ones criticizing Luck with no base seem to be Manning-fans who are just bitter.

I'll tell ya what, once Manning loses in the playoffs again, the bandwagon will be filling back up.

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