Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

IndyTrav

Loving Hilton...But...

68 posts in this topic

Loving what I am seeing from TY, but ALOT is being made from his 3 100yd games...they are great, and he's our own little Harvin, but Id like to see more consistency. Given he is a rookie, but rookie WR are producing now more than they ever have, the 3year rule no longer applies.

In his 3-100yd games he's 16-315-4, which accounts for over 50% of his rec, nearly 70% of his yards and 100% of his TDs..3 big games 6duds...which is ridiculously close to what Garçon did in his time here....

This isn't a "bash Hilton" thread. Just trying to shine some light on his stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He needs experience to be consistent. Next season he will put up better stats, I believe.

Not to mention Luck has several targets besides TY, play calling and opponents' defensive schemes also affects his personal stats. I think it is good, that he can step up every time it is needed.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loving what I am seeing from TY, but ALOT is being made from his 3 100yd games...they are great, and he's our own little Harvin, but Id like to see more consistency. Given he is a rookie, but rookie WR are producing now more than they ever have, the 3year rule no longer applies.

In his 3-100yd games he's 16-315-4, which accounts for over 50% of his rec, nearly 70% of his yards and 100% of his TDs..3 big games 6duds...which is ridiculously close to what Garçon did in his time here....

This isn't a "bash Hilton" thread. Just trying to shine some light on his stats.

Really? How do you think he's doing compared to the rest of the rookies this year?

Considering he was drafted more for his ST play he's been a nice surprise. Well ok his ST play has been an unpleasant surprise but that's not just down to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

agree with my Hungarian friend, he shows speed and promise. There are a lot of targets for Luck and not sure that his " 6 duds" games were his lack of production and ability or that due to defenses, he was less of a target in those games. There were a couple "Reggie games" that didn't seem like anyone else was out there, which is good as long as Reggie is open and available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? How do you think he's doing compared to the rest of the rookies this year?

Considering he was drafted more for his ST play he's been a nice surprise. Well ok his ST play has been an unpleasant surprise but that's not just down to him.

He's doing pretty well compared to other guys. Generally Top 3-5 in every category. But he also does have the luxury of being on a quality passing team compared to the rest of the guys. But he was also traded up for in the 3rd, so lets not pretend he wasn't expected to produce in some categories.

To me the real rookie winner this year is Josh Gordon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's doing pretty well compared to other guys. Generally Top 3-5 in every category. But he also does have the luxury of being on a quality passing team compared to the rest of the guys. But he was also traded up for in the 3rd, so lets not pretend he wasn't expected to produce in some categories.

To me the real rookie winner this year is Josh Gordon.

That's a fair shout for Josh Gordon, considering he wasn't exactly taken that high.

I know what you're saying with TY but how sick would you feel if say he was a first rounder..... why it would almost be enough to make you drown your sorrows in Oklahoma.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hilton is outperforming everyone in our draft except for Luck. He is outperforming everybody else's middle round receivers as well. Josh Gordon was taken in the 2nd round, wasn't he, ahead of Hilton. At the beginning of the season, our coaches trusted Avery more because he had same speed and more experience. Now, we target Hilton as much or more. He earned that. I predict he will make some really big plays for us at the end of the season.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hilton is outperforming everyone in our draft except for Luck. He is outperforming everybody else's middle round receivers as well. Josh Gordon was taken in the 2nd round, wasn't he, ahead of Hilton. At the beginning of the season, our coaches trusted Avery more because he had same speed and more experience. Now, we target Hilton as much or more. He earned that. I predict he will make some really big plays for us at the end of the season.

Gordon was taken in the supplemental draft. For a 2nd I believe. I also thought we had bid on him as well.

But he was the only player taken. In mid July. Meaning he missed most if not all of Training camp as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really excited for our receiving core. When Fleener and Avery come back, we'll be pretty explosive especially since Brazill is making some nice plays too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loving what I am seeing from TY, but ALOT is being made from his 3 100yd games...they are great, and he's our own little Harvin, but Id like to see more consistency. Given he is a rookie, but rookie WR are producing now more than they ever have, the 3year rule no longer applies.

In his 3-100yd games he's 16-315-4, which accounts for over 50% of his rec, nearly 70% of his yards and 100% of his TDs..3 big games 6duds...which is ridiculously close to what Garçon did in his time here....

This isn't a "bash Hilton" thread. Just trying to shine some light on his stats.

Thanks for the BASH Hilton thread. It shines a light on YOU!

The biggest jump for NFL players is in year two. You appear to know little or nothing about the progress of NFL receivers over years 1 thru 3. That is OK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand where OP is coming from.

I think the thing is that Luck is just now getting his feet wet with throwing the deep ball. And Avery & Hilton are great for catching the deep passes.

Luck has gone more to Wayne, Avery, Fleener, and Allen than Hilton so Hilton hasn't been all that productive so far. Compared to other rookies, he is near the top in the stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the BASH Hilton thread. It shines a light on YOU!

The biggest jump for NFL players is in year two. You appear to know little or nothing about the progress of NFL receivers over years 1 thru 3. That is OK.

Riiiight

And that has anything to do with what we are talking about because.......oh, that's right it doesn't. I'm not trying to extrapolate his talents for years 2 and 3. It has nothing to do with this discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hilton will be a slot wr and PR/KR man. We are still missing our outside WR of the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hilton will be a slot wr and PR/KR man. We are still missing our outside WR of the future.

I agree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://quickmeme.com/meme/3rvd7z/

He's just a rookie! How many consistent third round WR rookies have there been?

There was an article on bleacher report after the draft about TY. Something like "What to expect from TY Hilton's rookie year"

"From 2005-2011, there were 36 wideouts taken between picks 60 and 100 of the draft. That spans the very late second round all the way to the early fourth. Here's what we can learn from those picks:

Only four started at least six games. None started more than nine.

25 of 36 played in at least 10 games.

Only two had at least 40 catches. Only 15 had at least 20. Thirteen had fewer than 10 catches.

Only three had at least 600 yards receiving, and just six had 400 yards.

Two had six touchdowns, but only eight had more than one.

The average performance was 17 catches, 224 yards, and just under one touchdown each."

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordon was taken in the supplemental draft. For a 2nd I believe. I also thought we had bid on him as well.

But he was the only player taken. In mid July. Meaning he missed most if not all of Training camp as well.

Gordon's also turned out to be the only viable receiving option in Cleveland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't ness think that consistency is the right word im looking for or not.

Perhaps it's on the coaches, Luck, scheme etc.

But I see a guy in his 100yd games avg 5/105/1

And in his other games 2/20/0.

And I don't know that it's volume of rec either. He had 5 v Tenn and had 35 yds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me the real rookie winner this year is Josh Gordon.

How is Gordon the "real rookie winner?" He has only 2 games over 60 yards, zero 100 yard games, and 4 TDs. Hilton has the same number of TDs and three 100 yard games.

I agree Hilton isn't consistent but neither is Gordon or any other rookie. Because of the emergence of Avery, Hilton is the Colts 3rd WR. Considering that, the fact he is a rookie, and where he was picked in the draft, I don't see how any of us can complain too much. Would it be better if he was more consistent? Sure, but that would also mean he would be taking plays away from Avery and Reggie...the 2012 Colts aren't the 2004 Colts...there currently is room for 3 super high producing WRs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hilton will be a slot wr and PR/KR man. We are still missing our outside WR of the future.

not sure why many think he will only be a slot guy. why? because he's short?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is Gordon the "real rookie winner?" He has only 2 games over 60 yards, zero 100 yard games, and 4 TDs. Hilton has the same number of TDs and three 100 yard games.

I agree Hilton isn't consistent but neither is Gordon or any other rookie. Because of the emergence of Avery, Hilton is the Colts 3rd WR. Considering that, the fact he is a rookie, and where he was picked in the draft, I don't see how any of us can complain too much. Would it be better if he was more consistent? Sure, but that would also mean he would be taking plays away from Avery and Reggie...the 2012 Colts aren't the 2004 Colts...there currently is room for 3 super high producing WRs.

Gordon is on the Browns, a much worse team. And generally on the 1 or 2 CB. Missed all of TC and a few preseason games, in a tougher division and tougher spot than Hilton. In my book he gets the nod on the better season to this point.

Again I don't know that consistency is the right word. But Hilton completely disappears in other games. Is it scheme. Luck. Play calls etc. I don't know.

But if we as Colts fans are going to go bananas over 3 100yd games, then we should also consider the 7 where he did nothing. It's objective.

And people. Myself included consider him a slot guy because there are 0 #1wr in the NFL his size.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hilton has been better deep than avery infact three of hilton's tds were deep passes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why can't Hilton be the next Steve smith, Marvin Harrison , little guy wideout? He is just as fast and has made some great catches. He can become more consistent with his catches. I am just saying that it is up to him and if he has that Jerry rice desire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loving what I am seeing from TY, but ALOT is being made from his 3 100yd games...they are great, and he's our own little Harvin, but Id like to see more consistency. Given he is a rookie, but rookie WR are producing now more than they ever have, the 3year rule no longer applies.

In his 3-100yd games he's 16-315-4, which accounts for over 50% of his rec, nearly 70% of his yards and 100% of his TDs..3 big games 6duds...which is ridiculously close to what Garçon did in his time here....

This isn't a "bash Hilton" thread. Just trying to shine some light on his stats.

If you want to shine light on hilton's stats compare it to this

wayne 27 catches 345 yards o tds rookie year

harrison 64 catches 836 yards 8 tds

gonzalez 37 catches 576 yards 3 tds

collie 60 catches 676 yards 7tds

hilton 30 catches 455 yards 4 tds

I'll say hilton is right in the mix with the best of them and shoould finish with more yards and tds than collie and maybe more yards than harrison if he has a few big games also since donnie is hurt brazil's numbers should rise to

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo, Hilton is our SECOND BEST WR on the Team. (Obviously behind Reggie Wayne). I actually think Hilton is better than Avery, Brazill, Palmer, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does it matter how he gets his statistics? What happened happened. It's like people trying to downgrade Browns YPC last year because of his 80 yard run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordon is on the Browns, a much worse team. And generally on the 1 or 2 CB. Missed all of TC and a few preseason games, in a tougher division and tougher spot than Hilton. In my book he gets the nod on the better season to this point.

Again I don't know that consistency is the right word. But Hilton completely disappears in other games. Is it scheme. Luck. Play calls etc. I don't know.

But if we as Colts fans are going to go bananas over 3 100yd games, then we should also consider the 7 where he did nothing. It's objective.

And people. Myself included consider him a slot guy because there are 0 #1wr in the NFL his size.

I don't think he has to be a #1 WR. Steve Smith is 5 9" and he's a #1 WR...Yet Smith is alot stronger, but he is the same size height wise. I think T.Y could be that guy where his yards per catch is ridiculously high and has over 1000 yards a season like Mike Wallace, but isn't a true #1..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordon is on the Browns, a much worse team. And generally on the 1 or 2 CB. Missed all of TC and a few preseason games, in a tougher division and tougher spot than Hilton. In my book he gets the nod on the better season to this point.

Again I don't know that consistency is the right word. But Hilton completely disappears in other games. Is it scheme. Luck. Play calls etc. I don't know.

But if we as Colts fans are going to go bananas over 3 100yd games, then we should also consider the 7 where he did nothing. It's objective.

And people. Myself included consider him a slot guy because there are 0 #1wr in the NFL his size.

Hilton is ranked 52 in the league in DYAR and Gordon is ranked 65. Hilton is 49 in DVOA and Gordon is 62. These are objective ways to evaluate WRs that take the context of stats into account. In reality, both are having solid years for a rookie.

I am not going bananas or saying TY is a #1 WR (not sure what that means in today's NFL but that is another conversation), I'm just saying he is having a similar yet objectively better year than Gordon.

I'm not sure why he has disappeared but him and Avery have pretty much mirrored each other with the exception of the Pats game. That tells me its a combination of scheme and opponent that impacts TY and Avery both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think he has to be a #1 WR. Steve Smith is 5 9" and he's a #1 WR...Yet Smith is alot stronger, but he is the same size height wise. I think T.Y could be that guy where his yards per catch is ridiculously high and has over 1000 yards a season like Mike Wallace, but isn't a true #1..

he's a true number one and brazil has number two potential if he gets more passes thrown his way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair Hilton's stat line could look more evened out if he caught some of the dang balls. There were some games where he has 30-40 rec yards, but could've easily had 50-60 had he caught a perfectly thrown ball. He will get more consistent in time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd take a tall guy thats a 1 on 1 mismatch that can go up and get the ball as my #1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd take a tall guy thats a 1 on 1 mismatch that can go up and get the ball as my #1

no thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to shine light on hilton's stats compare it to this

wayne 27 catches 345 yards o tds rookie year

harrison 64 catches 836 yards 8 tds

gonzalez 37 catches 576 yards 3 tds

collie 60 catches 676 yards 7tds

hilton 30 catches 455 yards 4 tds

I'll say hilton is right in the mix with the best of them and shoould finish with more yards and tds than collie and maybe more yards than harrison if he has a few big games also since donnie is hurt brazil's numbers should rise to

Harrison/Wayne did it against 2s

And even tho it's such a short time frame the NFL has changed drastically for WR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

he's a true number one and brazil has number two potential if he gets more passes thrown his way

Not yet that's for sure. Maybe not even ever. But we don't need him to be. We have two stud TE's which I believe could be a really good TEs in the future, Allen I believe could be a true #1 TE. And we will probably draft Reggie's replacement in a year or two, because none of the guys on our roster yell "#1 receiver" to me. I hope one of them proves me wrong, but I doubt it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd take a tall guy thats a 1 on 1 mismatch that can go up and get the ball as my #1

Maybe we don't need a guy to go up and get a ball if our QB was accurate enough to not put it in that position, which Andrew Luck is. That #1 guy you want is a luxury, not a need. I prefer guys like Reggie and Marvin, who use precision and great ball skills to beat their man, not jump 10 feet in the air to catch an overthrown ball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why can't Hilton be the next Steve smith, Marvin Harrison , little guy wideout? He is just as fast and has made some great catches. He can become more consistent with his catches. I am just saying that it is up to him and if he has that Jerry rice desire.

It's looking like Smith is the last one. He is something like 32/33.

I think the best representation of Hilton currently, and it recently drafted is the Maclin/Jackson combo in Philly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hilton hasn't shown he has consistent hands or consistent numbers, 3 great games so far dont make him a #1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe we don't need a guy to go up and get a ball if our QB was accurate enough to not put it in that position, which Andrew Luck is. That #1 guy you want is a luxury, not a need. I prefer guys like Reggie and Marvin, who use precision and great ball skills to beat their man, not jump 10 feet in the air to catch an overthrown ball.

The problem is not many of these guys exist anymore. It's a different game. But at the same time why not get a guy who can do those things, AND go get the ball.

I'm trying to think of a player drafted in the last 6years that meets your criteria, and simply can't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's looking like Smith is the last one. He is something like 32/33.

I think the best representation of Hilton currently, and it recently drafted is the Maclin/Jackson combo in Philly.

Those guys have an erratic QB who sucks, we don't. Hilton was drafted in a spot where he can show his true potential, which may or may not be a #1 receiver. But I really don't care if he is or not. As long as he catches the ball more consistently (which he will in time) and stretches the field.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Indiana DYK(Old Northwest)  Indiana was part of the Northwest Territory 
    • Negative, no. Critical, yes. I never said Pagano was a bad coach. But, Pagano has had 5 years to develop better strategies (granted in concert with the other coaches and players Grigson and the FO provided). I suppose some would try to put all the failures on Grigson, but in my experience with teambuilding, that (the failure of one person) is almost never the case. In fact, I would speculate that, for whatever reason, the lack of a coherent strategic vision for the team resulted in players "trying too hard", getting hurt, and ultimately coming up short of their potential. Part of that under-performance is the lack of development of the mental aspects of the game. Slow starts, mis-matched playcalling, poor clock management are indicators of strategic mental lapses.
    • I think you hit the nail right on the head with your New York and Los Vegas comment. There are a few other artist who fall into that category also. I'm not going to venture to make a list of those artist. Music is so compelling to each individual and effects each one of us differently. Like you said Frank was a little ahead of my time but I can't judge him in the fact if he was good or bad. His career started with the big band era and then ventured into acting where he did have success. Like him or not he was huge in his style.
    • I think we could see Spence at M and Jackson at W to start the season. If someone doesn't step up at M. We could easily run that pair out week 1. We could do a lot worse.   The biggest change we need to make at ILB is speed. That pair gives us that. Rhodes is a guy who could surprise. This will be a position group I'll be keeping a close eye on 
  • Welcome New Members

    •   Sorry to keep harping on the Irish thing, but did you know the horseshoe has seven points on it?  (The Colts horseshoe, anyway.  Actual shoes for horses depend on the farrier).   Seven is considered a lucky number...  Lucky.  Luck.  I'm telling you, you picked the right team to root for.   7    
    •   Don't hold Boston against the Irish.  It's not our fault.    We love our green, which makes Indiana a tearmann.   I love it that you chose to root for an underdog instead of the Pats.  I don't think it's coincidence that you became a fan around the time Luck got drafted to the Colts.  That's providence.     Horseshoe?  Luck?  Four-leaf clover?  Come on.  Hoosier Hospitality has roots in Irish fun-lovery.  If you're lucky enough to be Irish, you're lucky enough!  May the luck of the Irish be with you!  
  • Members

    • Arodgers12

      Arodgers12 245

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • coltsfan77

      coltsfan77 58

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • pacolts56

      pacolts56 2,327

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • bababooey

      bababooey 1,967

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • shaggy1048

      shaggy1048 2

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • thatonefan

      thatonefan 15

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • GOZER

      GOZER 1,180

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • twfish

      twfish 1,039

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • PrincetonTiger

      PrincetonTiger 4,513

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • jvan1973

      jvan1973 12,971

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:

Community Software by Invision Power Services, Inc.