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Wow.... Andrew Luck draft rights trade


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#121 Straight Cash Homie

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:24 AM

If we are talking 4 or 5 first round picks I'd make that trade if I were the Colts.

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#122 SilentHill

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:05 PM

I wouldn't trade Luck for the entire Browns 40 man roster (they can keep the PS) and all of the picks in that draft, If I was Grigson I don't call back either, any offer from the Browns had to be borderline insulting.

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#123 bayone

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:48 AM

Somewhat true but yards in a season not so worthless, and to put those numbers up with a somewhat suspect O line is not to be sniffed at. As argued in another post the traditional metrics of measuring a QB are becoming outdated with the evolution of the game. QBR makes a fair attempt to look at a more broad spectrum but is too subjective for my liking, despite it supporting the belief that Luck is performing admirably well.

If you argue that yards in a game is worthless do we say any single game record is worthless, and to expand further any single event record in sport?

BTW who does have the most yards for those meteorological conditions you stated :P


Luck is 3at QBR as he gets 17 points for his runs, far more points in that category than even RG3 , that 1 stat is why his qbr is way up there

Check it out its under RUN EPA , if put mouse on any category it will define what that means

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

Unfortunately there is no 1 real stat or group there of that defines WINNER, I think luck will be a winner , of course though as Colt fans know, a proper team built around him & proper coaching decisions are all part of it too
Forgive any typos, try to catch, but have multiple progressive disabilities

#124 SteelCityColt

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:18 AM

Luck is 3at QBR as he gets 17 points for his runs, far more points in that category than even RG3 , that 1 stat is why his qbr is way up there

Check it out its under RUN EPA , if put mouse on any category it will define what that means

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr


I think it's unfair to say it's just down to that 1 stat, he scores quite well in other categories as well (mostly Top 10 as a minimum), and maybe it's my misunderstanding but I thought the whole point of the total QBR was to try and iron out skews by one particular area (I.e. a Heavy Passer or Scrambler) and also to give a better level granularity than offered by the traditional metrics.

I'd also say given how his athletic ability was somewhat dismissed next to RG I'm happy to see him that far ahead in rushing.

He's a tough one to quantify, traditional metrics it looks like he can't pass accurately, is poor in the red zone yet somehow can put up consistent yards and lead a drive with some insane conversions on 3rd down. By QBR on the other hand he looks exceptional.

#125 bayone

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:41 AM

Posted Imagebayone, on 21 November 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Luck is 3at QBR as he gets 17 points for his runs, far more points in that category than even RG3 , that 1 stat is why his qbr is way up there

Check it out its under RUN EPA , if put mouse on any category it will define what that means

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr



I think it's unfair to say it's just down to that 1 stat, he scores quite well in other categories as well (mostly Top 10 as a minimum), and maybe it's my misunderstanding but I thought the whole point of the total QBR was to try and iron out skews by one particular area(I.e. a Heavy Passer or Scrambler) and also to give a better level granularity than offered by the traditional metrics.

I'd also say given how his athletic ability was somewhat dismissed next to RG I'm happy to see him that far ahead in rushing.

He's a tough one to quantify, traditional metrics it looks like he can't pass accurately, is poor in the red zone yet somehow can put up consistent yards and lead a drive with some insane conversions on 3rd down. By QBR on the other hand he looks exceptional.


I agree with what I highlighted u said

Didnt mean to say didnt score quite well in other categories or didnt deserve a high QBR, just that 17 + points in 1 when most QBs have zilch in that category is a big part of the stat, Cutler has more than RG3 , i was shocked or ignorant of cutler

NOW DIDNT U ALSO SEE THAT I WROTE , BUT u didnt include in your quote of me

Unfortunately there is no 1 real stat or group there of that defines WINNER, I think luck will be a winner , of course though as Colt fans know, a proper team built around him & proper coaching decisions are all part of it too
===========================

So I like Luck, didnt mean to make it seem I didnt
Forgive any typos, try to catch, but have multiple progressive disabilities

#126 SteelCityColt

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:03 AM

Posted Imagebayone, on 21 November 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Luck is 3at QBR as he gets 17 points for his runs, far more points in that category than even RG3 , that 1 stat is why his qbr is way up there

Check it out its under RUN EPA , if put mouse on any category it will define what that means

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr





I agree with what I highlighted u said

Didnt mean to say didnt score quite well in other categories or didnt deserve a high QBR, just that 17 + points in 1 when most QBs have zilch in that category is a big part of the stat, Cutler has more than RG3 , i was shocked or ignorant of cutler

NOW DIDNT U ALSO SEE THAT I WROTE , BUT u didnt include in your quote of me

Unfortunately there is no 1 real stat or group there of that defines WINNER, I think luck will be a winner , of course though as Colt fans know, a proper team built around him & proper coaching decisions are all part of it too
===========================

So I like Luck, didnt mean to make it seem I didnt


Hey no problem man, sorry I don't know how I missed that bit both in reading or quoting so I apologise if it seemed like a criticism of yourself.

The problem Luck has that if people just go off stats, and often stats out of context, without watching the game he doesn't look anything special. But you watch him play and you get a nice warm feeling about the future of the Colts. I missed the start of the Manning era, so I feel blessed to watch the birth of another one (fingers crossed!)

#127 bayone

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:10 AM

Hey no problem man, sorry I don't know how I missed that bit both in reading or quoting so I apologise if it seemed like a criticism of yourself.

The problem Luck has that if people just go off stats, and often stats out of context, without watching the game he doesn't look anything special. But you watch him play and you get a nice warm feeling about the future of the Colts. I missed the start of the Manning era, so I feel blessed to watch the birth of another one (fingers crossed!)


I grew up with first pack of football cards having Unitas rookie when lived in Brooklyn NY , now north of Detroit , and a colt fan ever since

, I like stats when they agree with my feelings ( LOL ) but i have lived long enough that u can change parameters ,lets say charts by a year etc and have a totally different outcome to make ones point so they do serve a purpose but as said alot can be manipulated , when desired, ESPecially IN so called various expert pundits articles , or things simply taken out of true context just again to make the authors point or to sell something with controversy for a good storyline

My point is I know a good QB when I see one and Luck falls in that category

sorry u missed start of Manning era, glad u r for Lucks
Forgive any typos, try to catch, but have multiple progressive disabilities

#128 TKnight24

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:28 PM

What Team was it??!! Here's my List of what I would've done

If it was the Browns: Take Haden, their BEST O-lineman, Colt McCoy, Greg Little, Lito Sheppard, & their D-lineman (Draft Picks already Included)

If it was the Jets: Take Jeremy Kerley, Revis, & Mangold

If it was the Chiefs: Take Eric Berry, Charles, Hali, Houston, & D. Bowe

If it was the Jags: LEAVE THE IDEA ALONE (Never help a Division Rival

If it was the Lions: Megatron, Titus Young, Suh & Fairley (after they get placed in a steered straight program & anger mangement)

If it was the Skins: Take Orakpo, Wilson, Helu, Moss, Karriker, Cofield & Kerrigan


This is just my Opinion of what I would've done though. Then I would've drafted Russell Wilson or Kellen Moore as my QB since the team that offered was clearly gonna take Andrew Luck

Apple Juice keeps me sane, society doesn't

Apple Juice relaxes my mind, society doesn't


#129 Rhane19

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:35 PM

What Team was it??!! Here's my List of what I would've done

If it was the Browns: Take Haden, their BEST O-lineman, Colt McCoy, Greg Little, Lito Sheppard, & their D-lineman (Draft Picks already Included)

If it was the Jets: Take Jeremy Kerley, Revis, & Mangold

If it was the Chiefs: Take Eric Berry, Charles, Hali, Houston, & D. Bowe

If it was the Jags: LEAVE THE IDEA ALONE (Never help a Division Rival

If it was the Lions: Megatron, Titus Young, Suh & Fairley (after they get placed in a steered straight program & anger mangement)

If it was the Skins: Take Orakpo, Wilson, Helu, Moss, Karriker, Cofield & Kerrigan


I would be stunned if the Browns would have given up Haden and Joe Thomas (their best OL), Little + draft picks, I would have taken that instantly... but i doubt the Browns would have offered that. Since Joe Thomas got in the league, he has been a pro-bowler every year.

but finding a franchise QB is obviously rough to do.

#130 FireJimCaldwell

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:35 PM

What Team was it??!! Here's my List of what I would've done

If it was the Browns: Take Haden, their BEST O-lineman, Colt McCoy, Greg Little, Lito Sheppard, & their D-lineman (Draft Picks already Included)

If it was the Jets: Take Jeremy Kerley, Revis, & Mangold

If it was the Chiefs: Take Eric Berry, Charles, Hali, Houston, & D. Bowe

If it was the Jags: LEAVE THE IDEA ALONE (Never help a Division Rival

If it was the Lions: Megatron, Titus Young, Suh & Fairley (after they get placed in a steered straight program & anger mangement)

If it was the Skins: Take Orakpo, Wilson, Helu, Moss, Karriker, Cofield & Kerrigan


This is just my Opinion of what I would've done though. Then I would've drafted Russell Wilson or Kellen Moore as my QB since the team that offered was clearly gonna take Andrew Luck

The salary cap would have prevented each of those ideas, both for the Colts and even more so the teams you used.

Any projected trade would have likely been based around draft picks as opposed to current players, but if it included a player I doubt it would include multiple players.

#131 TKnight24

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:37 PM

The salary cap would have prevented each of those ideas, both for the Colts and even more so the teams you used.

Any projected trade would have likely been based around draft picks as opposed to current players, but if it included a player I doubt it would include multiple players.

I would be stunned if the Browns would have given up Haden and Joe Thomas (their best OL), Little + draft picks, I would have taken that instantly... but i doubt the Browns would have offered that. Since Joe Thomas got in the league, he has been a pro-bowler every year.

but finding a franchise QB is obviously rough to do.


A guy could dream can't he?? lol

But it would've been Great if one of these Dreams would've became a Reality (Pops in Madden) haha

Apple Juice keeps me sane, society doesn't

Apple Juice relaxes my mind, society doesn't


#132 ColtsBlueFL

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:50 PM

Irsay started slipping about the 'rebuilding' late last year. He then fired the front office a little later and said the Manning decision was his and he wouldn't saddle the new GM with that task. The new GM was instrumental in the Caldwell and coaches being let go, and likely some players (besides Manning) as well. Then Irsay got Grigson into talks with Peyton too. But Irsay always reserves to have final voice. He tries to avoid that though. But I think Manning decision was all his.

“There’s no question he’s (Luck) a complete football player and one of the top quarterbacks in this league already. He has a great career in front of him but I think he’s already established himself as a very poised and talented player that can do a lot of things to beat you and he manages his team well and plays good situational football.”       -New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick

 







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