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Playoffs2013

Wow.... Andrew Luck draft rights trade

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Yes subsequent replies woud be a "waste of time." Kind of like Grigson just saying not interested and saving everyone time rather than putting together a stupid request.

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think Grigson had any say over that #1 pick. I'm sure Irsay let Grigson do all of his due diligence on the other QB's, but the pick was always Luck. That was clear, imo and most others, from very early on.

I think it was anything but a no-brainer for Irsay. I think it's probably the most difficult personnel decision he's ever been involved with. That's not to say he wasn't convinced it was right, or that he's not at peace with it. But I seriously doubt he took it lightly or made his mind up easily.

One of the few times I disagree with you. I do think it was a no-brainer for Irsay. Like FJC, I think Irsay made the decision at least halfway through the season, once it started looking like the #1 pick was a real possibility. I also, as I said above, don't think Grigson had any say over that pick. Or perhaps rather, if Grigson didn't agree with taking Luck then he probably/possibly wouldn't have been hired. I remember reading a comment by Irsay when he was going through the GM interview process, though unfortunately I wouldn't begin to remember where to look for it, that he said the new GM would have carte blanche to run the team in whatever way he sees fit, with exception to that #1 pick. No matter what Grigson said, even if he'd told Jim he'd spent hours with both Luck and RG3 and reviewing game film, interviewing them etc etc, if he felt RG3 would be the better pick, I have no doubt in my mind Irsay would have overruled him and gone with Luck anyway.

Of course I admit that this is all my own speculation and beliefs on what transpired, and if I could remember where I read that comment by Irsay then that might lead more credence to what I've said, but I have no idea where I read it. But I do believe this was one of the few decisions that Irsay didn't have to put a whole lot of thought into. Just my 2 cents :)

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Well said. It is the fans I feel sorry for. The Browns have a very loyal fan base and Cleveland has gotten the short end of the stick in almost all pro sports. The Browns are bad, LeBron did his thing, when's the last time the Indians won a championship?

2 outs away in 1997 but lost game 7 to the marlins. I think sometime in the 40's was the last series win. They were big favorites the year (50's) Willie Mays made the famous catch and I think they ended uo getting swept.

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One of the few times I disagree with you.

Then it's one of the few times you're wrong...

;)

I do think it was a no-brainer for Irsay. Like FJC, I think Irsay made the decision at least halfway through the season, once it started looking like the #1 pick was a real possibility. I also, as I said above, don't think Grigson had any say over that pick. Or perhaps rather, if Grigson didn't agree with taking Luck then he probably/possibly wouldn't have been hired. I remember reading a comment by Irsay when he was going through the GM interview process, though unfortunately I wouldn't begin to remember where to look for it, that he said the new GM would have carte blanche to run the team in whatever way he sees fit, with exception to that #1 pick. No matter what Grigson said, even if he'd told Jim he'd spent hours with both Luck and RG3 and reviewing game film, interviewing them etc etc, if he felt RG3 would be the better pick, I have no doubt in my mind Irsay would have overruled him and gone with Luck anyway.

Of course I admit that this is all my own speculation and beliefs on what transpired, and if I could remember where I read that comment by Irsay then that might lead more credence to what I've said, but I have no idea where I read it. But I do believe this was one of the few decisions that Irsay didn't have to put a whole lot of thought into. Just my 2 cents :)

I agree with all of that. Irsay's posturing about being concerned with Manning's ability to come back and play, and thinking that he should retire, and "our doctors haven't cleared him," and all of that, was a pretty weak smoke screen. I do think his mind was made up way before March, and likely before the 2011 season was over. I don't think he instructed the coaches or the GM to tank the season, but I do think he wanted the #1 pick so he could draft Luck. And I don't blame him; Luck was one heck of a prospect, and is showing why every week. But I don't think he made his mind up way back in August/September like FJC does.

Either way, my point was that, even if Irsay was completely convinced that moving on was the right thing -- and he obviously was -- I don't think it was an easy decision for him. I commend him for making the decision, as much as I hate it, specifically because it was a tough decision for anyone to have to make. No matter how much he wanted a chance to draft Luck, whenever he decided that was important, I think releasing Manning still would have been a tough decision to make. Irsay has said that he feels like he and Manning grew up together, since he was a young owner when Manning was drafted. He knows his parents and his wife, and they spent 13 years building something special together. He is indebted to Manning for getting LOS built so easily. I believe (maybe because I want to believe, but still) emotion was involved on Irsay's part. That's why I commend him for doing what he thought was best for the franchise, despite it being hard to do.

I could be wrong. I'm just saying that, while it's obvious Irsay committed fully to moving on without Manning, and while he likely made that decision well before Grigson was hired, I don't think it was a no-brainer.

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Then it's one of the few times you're wrong...

;)

I agree with all of that. Irsay's posturing about being concerned with Manning's ability to come back and play, and thinking that he should retire, and "our doctors haven't cleared him," and all of that, was a pretty weak smoke screen. I do think his mind was made up way before March, and likely before the 2011 season was over. I don't think he instructed the coaches or the GM to tank the season, but I do think he wanted the #1 pick so he could draft Luck. And I don't blame him; Luck was one heck of a prospect, and is showing why every week. But I don't think he made his mind up way back in August/September like FJC does.

Either way, my point was that, even if Irsay was completely convinced that moving on was the right thing -- and he obviously was -- I don't think it was an easy decision for him. I commend him for making the decision, as much as I hate it, specifically because it was a tough decision for anyone to have to make. No matter how much he wanted a chance to draft Luck, whenever he decided that was important, I think releasing Manning still would have been a tough decision to make. Irsay has said that he feels like he and Manning grew up together, since he was a young owner when Manning was drafted. He knows his parents and his wife, and they spent 13 years building something special together. He is indebted to Manning for getting LOS built so easily. I believe (maybe because I want to believe, but still) emotion was involved on Irsay's part. That's why I commend him for doing what he thought was best for the franchise, despite it being hard to do.

I could be wrong. I'm just saying that, while it's obvious Irsay committed fully to moving on without Manning, and while he likely made that decision well before Grigson was hired, I don't think it was a no-brainer.

If you think back , Irsay first said he would resign PM and draft Luck. This could only mean he was ignorant to the salary cap and his weakened roster or just grasping at straws to somehow not release PM.

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But I don't think he made his mind up way back in August/September like FJC does.

I'm basing that on the premise of him being told that Manning shouldn't/wouldn't play again, and I believe that was when he sent out a few cryptic tweets talking about the next 18 months or so.

JimIrsay Jim Irsay 9-12-11

There will b some shocking,dramatic,inspiring,unimaginable things happening n Coltsland the next 18 months...buckle up,stay faithful,BELIEVE

Whether he instructed some form of "suck for luck", or Caldwell just adapted that naturally is open for ones personal opinion. I think Irsay had his mind made up who he wanted his next quarterback to be at that point in time, and I think the misinformation concerning Manning helped him forge that train of thought.

As the season went on and losses pilled up, it cemented it and I think any GM he interviewed was told that the Colts were drafting Luck. I also feel that if the team last year had picked up a couple of more wins, that he would have traded away quite a few # 1 picks to draft Luck.

Again, Just a gut feeling.

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If you think back , Irsay first said he would resign PM and draft Luck. This could only mean he was ignorant to the salary cap and his weakened roster or just grasping at straws to somehow not release PM.

Eh could be. Personally though i think it was all a PR ploy to try to make it look to the media and to the fans like it was peytons choice to leave rather than him pushing manning out the door.

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Then it's one of the few times you're wrong...

;)

Well played sir :P lol

Now don't get me wrong, i don't think there were any instructions to tank or anything like that (though if it somehow came out irsay did in fact order them to loose i wouldn't exactly be surprised, especially if he told them to lose that final game to the jags) and no i don't think he made the decision back in august/Sept. As i said, i think he made the decision somewhere in the weeks 12-14 range when it was all but a done deal that we'd get the first pick.

I'm also not saying it wasn't a hard decision for him, just that it didn't take him long to make up his mind. You can make a quick decision knowing in your head it's the right thing to do even though it may pull on your heart strings.

Also i was speaking more towards, once he thought we'd have the first pick it was going to be luck all the way. I don't think he ever seriously considered rg3 and i don't think he ever gave any consideration to trading the pick. So to hear he didn't even bother to return the call to whoever this team was doesn't surprise me in the least. That's more what i was speaking about when i said i do think it was a no brainer for him :)

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As the season went on and losses pilled up, it cemented it and I think any GM he interviewed was told that the Colts were drafting Luck. I also feel that if the team last year had picked up a couple of more wins, that he would have traded away quite a few # 1 picks to draft Luck.

Again, Just a gut feeling.

I completely agree.

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Am I missing something here? What exactly has made drafting Luck look like a bad move that people feel the need to question it because we could have made a trade? In fact it has looked like the smart move because to this point he has lived up to the hype and is big part of the reason why the Colts team is over achieving in many people's eyes. The Colts might very well have gotten the next great QB how on earth is this a bad thing? Who cares when the Colts decided this was the road they were going to go down? Better yet why care when made up their minds if they got it? My guess would be the Colts decided Luck was the guy because of how well he looked when they studied him and watched him. Again even the most critical of draft scouts had nothing but high praises of Luck coming out of school and all but said he was a sure thing. It's not like the Colts made this decision because Irsay kept reading Luck's name on ESPN.com. It's not like Luck wasn't vetted for lack of a better word either he was the clear number one overall pick for the better part of two years. Generally when that happens a guy gets so nitpicked they find flaws and they still couldn't.

Again, a lot of people who study this for a living and aren't emotionally attached to the Colts like we all are no how much we try to pretend like we aren't figured out that the Colts were going to release Manning and draft Luck long before it happened. It's not like that was a great shock to anyone who had been paying attention or not just holding out hope that it wouldn't happen. It was the logical thing to do for a team that was going into a rebuilding process. I really don't think this was as hard of a decision for the Colts as some make it out to be. I also think it's a bit silly to be complaining about when the decision was made or upset that the Colts didn't return a call to a team calling willing to offer it's whole draft. That doesn't mean the Colts dropped the ball on this. It means they had already made up their minds on what they were going to do based on the work they had put in before then. Thus far it looks like the Colts made the right decision no matter how much some might not like it.

Also I've seen it said that the people interviewed for the GM job were probably told what was going to happen. That was probably true but you know what Irsay owns the team he has a right to make a decision as big as Manning/Luck was. Irsay lived threw trading away Elway and saw how many years that set the franchise back while Elway was getting too and winning Super Bowls. He also had the benefit of drafting a bust in Jeff George and saw that frankly they recovered from that fairly quickly once they parted ways (they were in the AFC Title game just six years after he was drafted and only two years after the Colts parted ways with him.) Factor in the new money set up for top picks I think Irsay made the decision the reward with Luck was much higher than the risk not taking him.

At the end of the day the Colts got this move right and the results are showing threw on the field going from 2-14 to 6-3 and in the heart of the playoff race. Let's be grateful for what we have in Luck and not be greedy and complain because we could have had a bunch more draft picks that may or may not have turned into good players. Does anyone else really think any of the other rookie QBs would have pulled that off this year with this team? They all went to teams that had better talent coming back than Luck did and guess what none of them have as good of a record as he does and he's beaten two of the four head to head. We are looking at what looks to be the next great QB in this league. Be happy he has a horse shoe on the side of his head and we aren't kicking ourselves for going we let him get away like the Baltimore Colts fans had to do with Elway.

Also any question to if the Colts tanked the season or not goes away with the Texans game last year. The Colts lose that game and they lock up the top pick. By winning that game they put the top pick at risk. If they were tanking they would have never went to Orlovsky because Painter would have been doing exactly what they wanted him to do. Also the players were never going to buy into tanking so they could pretty much get fired for some new rookie kid to come in. I know people love to try to see conspiracy theories but this one doesn't hold much water.

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Then it's one of the few times you're wrong...

;)

I agree with all of that. Irsay's posturing about being concerned with Manning's ability to come back and play, and thinking that he should retire, and "our doctors haven't cleared him," and all of that, was a pretty weak smoke screen. I do think his mind was made up way before March, and likely before the 2011 season was over. I don't think he instructed the coaches or the GM to tank the season, but I do think he wanted the #1 pick so he could draft Luck. And I don't blame him; Luck was one heck of a prospect, and is showing why every week. But I don't think he made his mind up way back in August/September like FJC does.

Either way, my point was that, even if Irsay was completely convinced that moving on was the right thing -- and he obviously was -- I don't think it was an easy decision for him. I commend him for making the decision, as much as I hate it, specifically because it was a tough decision for anyone to have to make. No matter how much he wanted a chance to draft Luck, whenever he decided that was important, I think releasing Manning still would have been a tough decision to make. Irsay has said that he feels like he and Manning grew up together, since he was a young owner when Manning was drafted. He knows his parents and his wife, and they spent 13 years building something special together. He is indebted to Manning for getting LOS built so easily. I believe (maybe because I want to believe, but still) emotion was involved on Irsay's part. That's why I commend him for doing what he thought was best for the franchise, despite it being hard to do.

I could be wrong. I'm just saying that, while it's obvious Irsay committed fully to moving on without Manning, and while he likely made that decision well before Grigson was hired, I don't think it was a no-brainer.

What you just described is my definition of a no-brainer. Being a no-brainer doesn't mean it wasn't a difficult decision to make, or it wasn't draped in emotion and sadness, but as a business decision it was an automatic tick in the box once Luck was assured as our main option to Peyton.

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insert gocolts' soapbox rant here

Geez enhance your calm.

1. I dont recall seeing anyone say thag drafting luck was a bad move

2. I havent seen anyone say getting possibly the next great qb was a bad thing

3. Perhaps you should create a list of things you dont think are silly to discuss so we'll know from now on. Better yet, if you think its silly to discuss something then perhaps, i dont know, dont discuss it. Some people like to discuss what ifs. Nothing wrong with that.

4. I havent seen anyone say they didnt like the choice the colts made. Fjc simply questioned whether not returning the call was doing proper due diligence. From a business perspective (and this is a business, right?) It is always best to do ALL due diligence before making a decision. I can see fjc's point. Even if irsay already hsd his mind made up theres no harm in returning that call. Theres also nothing wrong with discussing the matter.

5. Only with the benefit of hindsight could i argue that trading the pick and drafting tannehill could have been an equally smart move. We probably wouldnt be 6-3 right now but we would be looking at a number of extra draft picks over the next 2-3 years to help solidify the team quicker. Again though thats only with the benefit of hindsight because I'll be the first to admit i didnt think tannehill would be playing as well as he has this early.

This is not the same as the arguments that were had late last season and up to the draft. The op posted a story and that has led to discussion. We are still aloud to have discussion here right?

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I don't think we'll ever get the full story on the decision making process,but it would have been somewhat of a gamble to set your stall on Luck before we'd secured the pick. Didn't it go down to a coin toss with the Rams?

I'm not a great one for believing in superstition but it did seem somewhat destined Luck would end up in Indy. You know, going to Peyton's camp, going back for his senior year, the hype of picking him or RG(Leaf). History, like bad curry, likes to repeat itself. I just hope it brings the same if not more rings.

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I don't think we'll ever get the full story on the decision making process,but it would have been somewhat of a gamble to set your stall on Luck before we'd secured the pick. Didn't it go down to a coin toss with the Rams?

I'm not a great one for believing in superstition but it did seem somewhat destined Luck would end up in Indy. You know, going to Peyton's camp, going back for his senior year, the hype of picking him or RG(Leaf). History, like bad curry, likes to repeat itself. I just hope it brings the same if not more rings.

Think we won the tie break on Strength of Schedule? Could be wrong though...

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I got into a pretty big argument with a Dallas fan (go figure) that the Colts purposely sucked last year in order to get the #1 pick. I made the comment that if we were wanting that spot guaranteed, then why did we win at least 2 games, and almost a 3rd? Was the plan if we managed to NOT have that spot would we have kept Peyton, or just went with a different QB that was available in our spot? Would we have traded up? He refused to answer any of the big questions that mentioned QB play. As in why are the Cowboys so bad? Why did the Eagles and Saints tank so bad while still having the same QB's and overall team?

I pointed out that for several years the talking heads all proclaimed us to be the "Indianapolis Peyton Mannings" and without Manning we'd be a 2-14 at best team. I mentioned that all the talent on offense and defense doesn't matter if your QB is stinking the place up, IE Curtis Painter trying to throw the ball twice on the same play.

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Think we won the tie break on Strength of Schedule? Could be wrong though...

Yeah i think thats what it was. We locked up the first pick after losing to the jags. It definitely wasnt a coin toss.

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Think we won the tie break on Strength of Schedule? Could be wrong though...

You are quite correct sir,my apologies for a misleading post.

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IE Curtis Painter trying to throw the ball twice on the same play.

Everytime I see this I still have to chuckle,2 attempts for the price of 1 and still couldn't complete the pass.

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You are quite correct sir,my apologies for a misleading post.

No need to apologise! Are you an Owl or a Blade? MAC on here has a thing for Wednesday....

(That should baffle most of our American friends!)

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Ha ha neither, I support North End, but if forced to choose I'd say Owl.

I remember when I first started posting on here MAC was very welcoming and filled me in on his Wednesday affiliation.

Slightly back on topic this forum can be bad sometimes in that if you're feeling a bit lazy to check something you know FJC or the like will normally correct it with a full detailed explanation and citations. Some very knowledgable people post on here I'd say.

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I'm pretty sure it was the Browns after they lost the RG3 sweepstakes at 2. They wanted to leapfrog the Skins and take RG3.

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Eh could be. Personally though i think it was all a PR ploy to try to make it look to the media and to the fans like it was peytons choice to leave rather than him pushing manning out the door.

Towards the end of the process , I think what you have above is correct. If you think back to the beginning of the whole "issue" Irsay and all the talking heads ... Casserly and Dungy included , were saying that because Luck's salary would not be prohibitive , this could be accomplished. I thought they all were being total . as it could never work. It was about 2 weeks before the . figured out that it was one or the other. I really do belive that initially Irsay thought it was possible. In the days leading up to PM's release is when I thought Irsay did as you suggest. He was saying things like "if Peyton Manning really wants to remain a Colt , we can work it out." Yea... right. How was he going to do that ? Tear up the old contract and sign a 1 year deal for 10-12 mill ?

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I got into a pretty big argument with a Dallas fan (go figure) that the Colts purposely sucked last year in order to get the #1 pick. I made the comment that if we were wanting that spot guaranteed, then why did we win at least 2 games, and almost a 3rd? Was the plan if we managed to NOT have that spot would we have kept Peyton, or just went with a different QB that was available in our spot? Would we have traded up? He refused to answer any of the big questions that mentioned QB play. As in why are the Cowboys so bad? Why did the Eagles and Saints tank so bad while still having the same QB's and overall team?

I pointed out that for several years the talking heads all proclaimed us to be the "Indianapolis Peyton Mannings" and without Manning we'd be a 2-14 at best team. I mentioned that all the talent on offense and defense doesn't matter if your QB is stinking the place up, IE Curtis Painter trying to throw the ball twice on the same play.

I think if the Colts fell below 1.2 , we would have kept Manning and drafted a QB in the second or 3rd round. The Denver guy ( not going to try to spell it) or maybe Nick Foles. Just a guess but I think all of a sudden Irsay would think Manning had 4-5 good years left and he would decide to draft a developemental guy. When Irsay saw Luck sitting there and he had pick 1.1 , it no doubt effected the way he was reading the medical reports . No way he was going to relive a John Elway scenario.

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Elway went to the super bowl 5 freaking times. That is what Irsay sees in Andrew Luck. How do we know that? Because Irsay practically predicted a playoff run at the beginning of this season when NOBODY was thinking that. Really? A rookie qb to take us into the playoffs his first year? What luck is doing now is very reminiscent of what elway was doing back then. Those broncos were not that good. Yes, I am old enough to have witnessed them. Elway and luck look similar to me . And Mel kipper saw the same thing.

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Elway went to the super bowl 5 freaking times. That is what Irsay sees in Andrew Luck. How do we know that? Because Irsay practically predicted a playoff run at the beginning of this season when NOBODY was thinking that. Really? A rookie qb to take us into the playoffs his first year? What luck is doing now is very reminiscent of what elway was doing back then. Those broncos were not that good. Yes, I am old enough to have witnessed them. Elway and luck look similar to me . And Mel kipper saw the same thing.

Way ahead of yourselves. But I guess when you compare one overrated QB to another...79.1...and on pace to have more turnovers than Cam Newton's rookie season and he is the supposed "leader" of an offense that struggles to put up points. I'm not seeing any greatness or anything unprecedented at the quarterback position thus far. He does have a lot of yards though lol...loluck...

Thoughtful analysis is not something prevalent on sports message boards. The narrative is "6-3", circumstance be darned lol

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Way ahead of yourselves. But I guess when you compare one overrated QB to another...79.1...and on pace to have more turnovers than Cam Newton's rookie season and he is the supposed "leader" of an offense that struggles to put up points. I'm not seeing any greatness or anything unprecedented at the quarterback position thus far. He does have a lot of yards though lol...loluck...

Thoughtful analysis is not something prevalent on sports message boards. The narrative is "6-3", circumstance be darned lol

You're completely correct, I mean don't you just hate itwhen people pick out a few choice stats without any context to support their argument despite a wealth of evidence to the contrary. All these fools on here who are getting excited about Luck when he's only broke a Rookie record and on course to break more, and leading a offense that many had down as struggling to get any points let alone wins.

We all know the only star that counts is sock sales and for that reason I can't beleive they didn't trade the pick and draft RG.

/sarcasm

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Rookie record and on course to break more...

Yards in a game for a rookie? Didn't Tannenhill almost break that worthless record also, and he's struggling real hard as of late. Another meaningless record that ranks right up there with most yards when the barometric pressure is 29.3 with a slight SSE wind of 9 mph.

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Way ahead of yourselves. But I guess when you compare one overrated QB to another...79.1...and on pace to have more turnovers than Cam Newton's rookie season and he is the supposed "leader" of an offense that struggles to put up points. I'm not seeing any greatness or anything unprecedented at the quarterback position thus far. He does have a lot of yards though lol...loluck...

Thoughtful analysis is not something prevalent on sports message boards. The narrative is "6-3", circumstance be darned lol

Compared to Elway's rookie year, Luck's playing like prime Steve Young.

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Yards in a game for a rookie? Didn't Tannenhill almost break that worthless record also, and he's struggling real hard as of late. Another meaningless record that ranks right up there with most yards when the barometric pressure is 29.3 with a slight SSE wind of 9 mph.

Somewhat true but yards in a season not so worthless, and to put those numbers up with a somewhat suspect O line is not to be sniffed at. As argued in another post the traditional metrics of measuring a QB are becoming outdated with the evolution of the game. QBR makes a fair attempt to look at a more broad spectrum but is too subjective for my liking, despite it supporting the belief that Luck is performing admirably well.

If you argue that yards in a game is worthless do we say any single game record is worthless, and to expand further any single event record in sport?

BTW who does have the most yards for those meteorological conditions you stated :P

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Compared to Elway's rookie year, Luck's playing like prime Steve Young.

Luck is very solid thus far for a rookie, and I agree about Elway (one of the most overrated Players of all time, but that's a long discussion for another day). I am just not ready to crown him yet. Many many years to go...

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BTW who does have the most yards for those meteorological conditions you stated :P

Jeff George? Yup, him or maybe Dilfer...

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Way ahead of yourselves. But I guess when you compare one overrated QB to another...79.1...and on pace to have more turnovers than Cam Newton's rookie season and he is the supposed "leader" of an offense that struggles to put up points. I'm not seeing any greatness or anything unprecedented at the quarterback position thus far. He does have a lot of yards though lol...loluck...

Thoughtful analysis is not something prevalent on sports message boards. The narrative is "6-3", circumstance be darned lol

You can't be calling John Elway over rated ? If so , it's the first time I ever heard that one... Luck's 79 passer rating is due to everything they have thrown at him and a few bad games. He's not taking the "baby steps" that most rookie QB's are fed. The hype is the amount of great throws , pocket presence , athleticism and amount of improvement he has shown over the 1st 9 games. Add to this coming to camp late , playing with a make shift O Line , filled with back ups , 2 so -so Rb's and a bunch of rookies

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Luck is very solid thus far for a rookie, and I agree about Elway (one of the most overrated Players of all time, but that's a long discussion for another day). I am just not ready to crown him yet. Many many years to go...

John Elway .. over rated. LOL. Only QB in history to carry a no talent team (not the last two) to 3 SB's pretty much on his back. Something Marino couldn't do more than once.

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Jeff George? Yup, him or maybe Dilfer...

Well as Trent got a SB ring maybe it's not such a meaningless stat. :)

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Yards in a game for a rookie? Didn't Tannenhill almost break that worthless record also, and he's struggling real hard as of late. Another meaningless record that ranks right up there with most yards when the barometric pressure is 29.3 with a slight SSE wind of 9 mph.

You fly back to school now little starling, fly, fly fly.....

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I'm sure the press is staying away from "the decision" story until PM prevents a AL led colts past the conference championship game. While there is no details or proof behind this story, I already know Jim was lying the entire time so It doesn't matter to me.

Stories like this won't float if Luck can beat the three to five best teams in the AFC and deliver playoff wins.

Personally, I'd feel a lot better with PM today at Foxboro, but thats just my opinion. Still rooting for Luck and the Colts but its hard not to imagine a PM led Colts with a stronger OL, DL, secondary and ST heading in there instead.

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I think if the Colts fell below 1.2 , we would have kept Manning and drafted a QB in the second or 3rd round. The Denver guy ( not going to try to spell it) or maybe Nick Foles. Just a guess but I think all of a sudden Irsay would think Manning had 4-5 good years left and he would decide to draft a developemental guy. When Irsay saw Luck sitting there and he had pick 1.1 , it no doubt effected the way he was reading the medical reports . No way he was going to relive a John Elway scenario.

Honestly, I agree with FJC. Even if we'd fallen out of the #1 pick, I think Irsay would have traded whatever he had to in order to move up to still be able to take Luck. If the Rams had gotten the first pick, which would have then gone to Washington, I think Irsay would have called the 'skins and offered the blank check scenario that was reported in the story from the OP. Washington would have asked for an astronomical price and Irsay would have paid it and Washington would still have gotten RG3, the guy they had already decided was their guy. Fortunately it didn't work out that way.

Towards the end of the process , I think what you have above is correct. If you think back to the beginning of the whole "issue" Irsay and all the talking heads ... Casserly and Dungy included , were saying that because Luck's salary would not be prohibitive , this could be accomplished. I thought they all were being total . as it could never work. It was about 2 weeks before the . figured out that it was one or the other. I really do belive that initially Irsay thought it was possible. In the days leading up to PM's release is when I thought Irsay did as you suggest. He was saying things like "if Peyton Manning really wants to remain a Colt , we can work it out." Yea... right. How was he going to do that ? Tear up the old contract and sign a 1 year deal for 10-12 mill ?

I agree...first it was Irsay saying if Peyton was healthy then he'd be a Colt. Then reports started to come out that he was improving and could be ready to play the beginning of '12 (which was still a gamble, nothing concrete, I know so it still would have been a gamble). So then Irsay says that money isn't a problem and that the contract was re-workable (which Polian also confirmed was a possibility), so then Peyton comes out and says he'd love to remain a Colt and he'd have no problem redoing the contract continuing the uncertainty of his health. So after that Irsay announces that he wants there to be an open competition between Manning and Luck. That was the final straw. Basically, imo, Irsay kept upping the ante trying to force Peyton to make the decision to leave, which he ultimately did by demanding the open QB competition.

It's Irsay's team, he can do whatever he wants. Personally, I think the way he went about it was kinda shady and I did lose a little respect. I still hold him and the organization as a whole in very high regards for all the good they do in the community and with various charities, etc so it's not like I hate him now or anything. Just think he could have handled the situation a little better. There really was no need for him to try to play the hero and not look bad in the eyes of the public. Some people were going to love him for the decision and some were going to hate him, while many others simply understood he made the safest decision that he could to ensure future success for his team (which is the group I fall into).

I'm not upset at the decision he made. He made the safest decision he could have made, but I don't necessarily think it was the right or wrong decision. Personally I think he could have gone either way...draft Luck or trade the pick and either would have been a smart decision. However, once again, I freely admit that drafting Luck was the safest decision. Trading the pick obviously would have added further risk.

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What you just described is my definition of a no-brainer. Being a no-brainer doesn't mean it wasn't a difficult decision to make, or it wasn't draped in emotion and sadness, but as a business decision it was an automatic tick in the box once Luck was assured as our main option to Peyton.

Maybe. Semantics at this point. I'm just throwing my thoughts out there.

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Well played sir :P lol

Now don't get me wrong, i don't think there were any instructions to tank or anything like that (though if it somehow came out irsay did in fact order them to loose i wouldn't exactly be surprised, especially if he told them to lose that final game to the jags) and no i don't think he made the decision back in august/Sept. As i said, i think he made the decision somewhere in the weeks 12-14 range when it was all but a done deal that we'd get the first pick.

I'm also not saying it wasn't a hard decision for him, just that it didn't take him long to make up his mind. You can make a quick decision knowing in your head it's the right thing to do even though it may pull on your heart strings.

Cool deal. I don't mean to nitpick, and that's what's happening now. I was just saying that I think Irsay made the decision with difficulty, and maybe even a little regret.

Also i was speaking more towards, once he thought we'd have the first pick it was going to be luck all the way. I don't think he ever seriously considered rg3 and i don't think he ever gave any consideration to trading the pick. So to hear he didn't even bother to return the call to whoever this team was doesn't surprise me in the least. That's more what i was speaking about when i said i do think it was a no brainer for him :)

Oh yeah, I agree there. No question that Luck was going to be drafted once we had that pick. And we probably would have made moves if necessary.

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