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Hilton a #1 WR?


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#1 GrizzColt

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:31 AM

A good article about our rookies, but what surprised me was what Arians said about Hilton. I'll be honest. I always viewed him as a poor man's Devin Hester. Good return guy used as a 3rd receiver. Anybody agree with number 1?


http://www.indystar....ring-far-season


WR/PR T.Y. Hilton (5-9, 183), D-3 (92)

Twelve wide receivers were drafted before Hilton, 19 after. None has had a 100-yard receiving game. Hilton has two. Showed big-play capacity in first with catches of 32, 36 and 40 yards (TD) and a 32-yard punt return nullified by penalty. Colts’ No. 3 receiver but Arians sees ability and drive to be a 1.

Arians: “I think a solid 1. I do, which is surprising because when we drafted him we thought he was just a kick returner. He’s turning into a really classy receiver and he’s ready to break a kick return.”


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#2 krunk

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:39 AM

Maybe. Kid definitely has skills. Hard to say at this point, but Reggie didn't look like anybodies number one receiver in his first year either. For a coach that has been coaching as long as Arians to say that about Hilton says something.

#3 Playoffs2013

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:42 AM

Maybe if he can catch the ball consistently
But we still need to take a WR in this upcoming draft
Sign Avril over Kruger

#4 Smonroe

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:43 AM

He has the speed, but the water bug guys scare me as far as their health. They just seem too fragile. However, Marvin wasn't much bigger and he had a fair career. (j/k)

I'd love to have a Reggie clone, a reliable guy who you could put anywhere, and he's also an asset in the run game.

#5 mvbighead

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:44 AM

In time, I could see it. He needs some work on his hands.

Thing is, too many fans get caught up in size. They want a 6-4, 220lb guy that can run a 4.3 and cut/accelerate with the best of them. Problem is, everybody wants those guys.

To me, a jump balls account for a small percentage of throws. Generally speaking, you most often see route running as the #1 attribute, as a guy that can cut and cause a defender to lose ground gets himself open for a catch. TY can be that kind of guy. But I'd see him as being someone who has to do what Marvin did. Get the catch, get down/out of bounds/whatever to avoid getting injured. He's a small guy, so if he can avoid big hits, he should be able to use his speed to separate and do some damage.

#6 schwamm

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:48 AM

He has the speed, but the water bug guys scare me as far as their health. They just seem too fragile. However, Marvin wasn't much bigger and he had a fair career. (j/k)

I'd love to have a Reggie clone, a reliable guy who you could put anywhere, and he's also an asset in the run game.

How about Reggie's hands, speed, and route running, but bigger.

I know... that's rare... but it's the only kind of WR I'd pursue in the draft, if it was me. Otherwise, I think we're good now, and only going to get better with what we have.

I am forever grateful for all the great players I've been fortunate enough to watch play the game with horseshoes on their helmets,

and I'm eagerly anticipating the opportunity to see which new Colts become the stars and fan favorites of tomorrow.


#7 coltsfanatic24

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:56 AM

hilton is not a #1 wr but could be great in the slot.

#8 Smonroe

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:01 AM

How about Reggie's hands, speed, and route running, but bigger.

I know... that's rare... but it's the only kind of WR I'd pursue in the draft, if it was me. Otherwise, I think we're good now, and only going to get better with what we have.


Remind me again why we didn't draft Hakeem Nicks? ....never mind.

#9 SIXTHOBJECT

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:20 AM

He's a rookie give him a chance. I think he could just needs to keep improving. I actually like him better then Avery
CHUCK STRONG!!!

#10 schwamm

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:22 AM

Remind me again why we didn't draft Hakeem Nicks? ....never mind.

I'm with you on that, but the woulda-coulda game is one that can be played almost every year (ie. I woulda preferred Cordy Glenn over Fleener), but it is ultimately just a time suck.

As for the receivers we have, I can only imagine what this group can do after a whole year of work with Luck. Wayne, Allen, Hilton and Avery (and add a pinch of Brazill) have looked good so far this year, with limited offseason prep time with Luck. Imagine when all the rookies mature, and rhythm and timing start to get perfected.

The Manning to Harrison connection didn't really blossom until their second year together. So what happens if all these guys haven't blossomed yet, and all do so at the same time? I realize Wayne is approaching the twighlight of his career, and his numbers could start to... uhmm... wane. Even so, this unit could be scary good without the big/reliable receiver I would add.

I am forever grateful for all the great players I've been fortunate enough to watch play the game with horseshoes on their helmets,

and I'm eagerly anticipating the opportunity to see which new Colts become the stars and fan favorites of tomorrow.


#11 IndyTrav

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:44 AM

No.


I point to a team like Philly. With Maclin/Jackson. Both players similar in size and speed. Both are good but not capable of being "the" guy.

I look at Steve Smith, but that guy is a special player with a special mentality. Then there is Welker who is great, but very scheme driven.

I like to argue. 


#12 SteelCityColt

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:45 AM

I realize Wayne is approaching the twighlight of his career, and his numbers could start to... uhmm... wane.


Nice wordplay sir!

I too am excited by this group of receivers, a more vertical threat would be nice but we may get this out of Fleener when he's back. I don't think spending a draft pick on a WR in this draft would be wise as we've already lost our 2nd and really need to improve the D and the O Line.

#13 GrizzColt

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:58 AM

Maybe Arians and company see things in practice that we don't see. Hope it's not blowing smoke, but I haven't noticed any of our staff this year as "smoke blowers".....with the possible exception of our owner :)

#14 gbrads_rants

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:10 PM

Hilton was one of the best WR's in the country the past two years that we've never heard of, Brazil was up there too...I'm not concerned by their size because they're Miami kids....small in stature but are huge players on the field....I think they're the future but we do need a large possession guy.

#15 Nobody

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:15 PM

Let's just draft Sammy Watkins or Marqise Lee.
I will delete this when the new Colts win a Super Bowl.

Come on boys, let's get rid of the rest of my sig!

#16 NorCalColt

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:18 PM

He has the speed, but the water bug guys scare me as far as their health. They just seem too fragile. However, Marvin wasn't much bigger and he had a fair career. (j/k)

I'd love to have a Reggie clone, a reliable guy who you could put anywhere, and he's also an asset in the run game.


I like the Marvin comparison, and the funniest thing is the stats after their first nine games are nearly identical. They are seperated by 5 yards and 6 catches right now (Marvin leading), tied with 2 TDs. Hilton has a long way to go, but for those of us around who remember Marvin in 1996, he didn't exaclty scream out 'record breaking' or 'all time' in his first nine games. Every one of these young WRs, and ones to be drafted in the future, have a chance with Luck, just like Marvin and Reggie iimproved, and then piled up numbers with PM. Luck will keep throwing, someone has to catch them.

#17 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:19 PM

Let's just draft Sammy Watkins or Marqise Lee.


colts would really have to stink in 2013 to get a shot at lee....really really stink

#18 oldunclemark

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

Remember...Nobody knows what you really are in your rookie year.

..that's the 'Cam Newton law'

#19 HtownColt

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:39 PM

He can be. I mean Wes welker is a number 1 receiver even though he doesn't line up as one but as for targets and playing time and production he is a number 1 receiver. The old fashion #1 receiver is gone these days they line up everywhere but they are still the go to target. Hilton just needs to keep hanging with Wayne and keep working on his hands

#20 Jay Kirk

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:32 PM

IMO we are much better off with Brazil hes more physical and will be much more consistent catching the ball if given the chance,and we dont loose speed going that route!

#21 Gavin

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:50 PM

Hilton has to show that he can bring his hands with him to games, Right now I have Avery as the better #2 who I think if his hands dont suddenly disappear I think in this offense he could be a #1 (although age would be the concern because he is already 28) I like Hilton and he has shown flashes but he always seem to find his hands dipped in butter at least to this point

#22 Stephen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:52 PM

No.


I point to a team like Philly. With Maclin/Jackson. Both players similar in size and speed. Both are good but not capable of being "the" guy.

I look at Steve Smith, but that guy is a special player with a special mentality. Then there is Welker who is great, but very scheme driven.

hilton can be just like harrison and when luck has a full off season to work with him i think his numbers sky rocket next year

#23 Stephen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:54 PM

IMO we are much better off with Brazil hes more physical and will be much more consistent catching the ball if given the chance,and we dont loose speed going that route!

brazil reminds me of wayne while hilton reminds me of harrison both can be elite Avery will also be solid

#24 Jay Kirk

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:03 PM

brazil reminds me of wayne while hilton reminds me of harrison both can be elite Avery will also be solid

Brazil is much faster than Reggie,but they all have a long way to go to be that good Wayne is one of a kind IMO :thmup:

#25 bahhummbug

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:04 PM

In time, I could see it. He needs some work on his hands.

Thing is, too many fans get caught up in size. They want a 6-4, 220lb guy that can run a 4.3 and cut/accelerate with the best of them. Problem is, everybody wants those guys.

To me, a jump balls account for a small percentage of throws. Generally speaking, you most often see route running as the #1 attribute, as a guy that can cut and cause a defender to lose ground gets himself open for a catch. TY can be that kind of guy. But I'd see him as being someone who has to do what Marvin did. Get the catch, get down/out of bounds/whatever to avoid getting injured. He's a small guy, so if he can avoid big hits, he should be able to use his speed to separate and do some damage.

killed collie trying for extra yards seemed to get him hurt alot :(

#26 IndyTrav

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

hilton can be just like harrison and when luck has a full off season to work with him i think his numbers sky rocket next year


That is an extremely tall order and overally optimistic.

Marvin had an absurd amount of things going for him, outside of his fantastic skill level.

I'm not saying Hilton isn't talented, but we have seen nothing to indicate he is a borderline HoF like Marvin. Waaaaay to premature to suggest that.

You should have said "I HOPE Hilton can be like Marvin"

I like to argue. 


#27 Superman

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:13 PM

No.


I point to a team like Philly. With Maclin/Jackson. Both players similar in size and speed. Both are good but not capable of being "the" guy.

I look at Steve Smith, but that guy is a special player with a special mentality. Then there is Welker who is great, but very scheme driven.


Yup. Neither Maclin nor Jackson have ever put up numbers worthy of #1 status. Steve Smith is a different animal, and is bigger and more physical than Hilton, and still is on a second rung, if you ask me. Not an elite #1. Welker isn't a prototypical #1 either, despite his production.

I think Hilton could wind up being a weapon like Maclin or even Mike Wallace (someone else I wouldn't slap the #1 tag on just yet, but definitely a valuable commodity).
LET'S HUNT

#28 lollygagger8

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:16 PM

For Arians to say that about Hilton is really saying something. Arians also said Ballard reminds him of the Edge.

Not sure what the future holds, but I sure am excited about this group of rookies getting to know how they each run routes, and where they will be. This group could be scary good in the future.

#29 Gavin

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:17 PM

Anyone else think its a bit strange that Luck is averaging 12.6 yards per completion but 7.2 yards per attempt

#30 Jay Kirk

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:18 PM

No love for my guy Brazil?

#31 Superman

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

No love for my guy Brazil?


The article mentions Brazill, and says his opportunities as a receiver were lessened because of mistakes on special teams. He got pushed down the depth chart.
LET'S HUNT

#32 Jay Kirk

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:25 PM

I did see him get some opportunity last week at wr,and he produced,

#33 throwingBBS

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:27 PM

To me a #1 is a primary go to guy who also gets Open in the clutch. He doesn`t Always have GREAT hands.
Hilton has the speed and quickness to get open. It is going to be VERY interesting in year 2 of this Offense.

#34 Jay Kirk

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

They will all get better,we have a very good crop of rookies IMO

#35 throwingBBS

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:33 PM

Anyone else think its a bit strange that Luck is averaging 12.6 yards per completion but 7.2 yards per attempt


No, I watched the games. Andrew has been completing a lot of longer passes, yet he was NOT very Accurate the 1st 6 games.
He was throwing behind his receivers more often than not with lots of incompletions.
The timing is looking much better the last 2-3 games. Bad news for the enemy. :Yikes:

#36 NewColtsFan

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

I'm very fond of Arians and think he's done a great job as a Head Coach, but I don't buy or believe his review of TY Hilton.

First, I think he's trying to talk-up his own rookie. He knows Hilton will either read this or hear about it. He's setting the bar high, he's setting a high ceiling. Why call him a #2 or even a #3 and set the kid's ceiling so low. Where's the challenge for TY?? No, talk him up and have him trying to become as great as he can be. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Because, second, I certainly didn't buy into the idea that when they TRADED UP to get Hilton in the draft, all they thought they were getting was a return guy. Not a chance. I don't see the Colts trading up to get Hilton if he's only a return guy and not a key wide receiver prospect and spend a #3 and a#5 to do it. That makes no sense at all.

Personally, I don't see TYH as a #1. But I'm open the idea that he 'might' be. But I think his size and hands alone make him a long shot. He can still be very, very effective and I'm very glad we got him and I think he'll get much, much better as the game slows down for him too. I just don't see him as a #1.

Good story from the IndyStar. Glad to see Arians and Grigson make so many public comments, even if I question one or two of them! :thmup:

#37 manning04

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:08 PM

I don't think Hilton is a "prototypical #1" even in my eyes... but has the potential to put up #1 numbers. like a Steve Smith. Some who have posted in this topic already said they don't consider Welker a #1 but he consistently posts #1 numbers year in and year out. so i guess it really depends on a persons opinion on what they feel constitutes #1 material. Some like the 6'5 220 guy posting 4.3s, some like a 6'0 200 guy running 4.5 (ala Jerry Rice and i don't even think he ran a 4.5 some say 4.7)

To sum up what i am trying to say a #1 on the size or speed chart does not mean #1 on the field. its about taking advantage of the players skill set.

This post is brought to you today by Qdoba!


#38 T Y Goodbye

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:12 PM

I have been one of the more vocal in praise of TY..I saw videos of the kid in his sophomore year, and he impressed me, not only for his speed, but also for his elusiveness and hands. Everyone remembers the wide open drops he had, but look how many really tough catches he has made so far. He seems to be the type of player, that if he has time to think about an easy one, he drops it, but in traffic and on the sidelines, he has sticky hands. I believe it all comes down to trying too hard on the easy plays, looking to break everyone for an ever bigger play. That comes down to coaching, and mentoring...I have a feeling that quite a few times, Reggie has pulled TY aside, and trying to impress upon him catching the ball first, then looking for the big play afterward. This will come in time.

People forget this kid is a rookie, and people expect every player to catch every ball that is even remotely close to any receiver. One drop is always remembered more than any great play anyone can ever make. Garcon the past few years for us is a perfect example. He made stupendous catches, but tended to drop a few easy ones.

As for the traditional #1..#2 or #3 WR...I think now that is a moot point in the NFL today. By the old standards, TY would never be a number 1, due to his lack of size. He would have been a first rounder if he were a few inches taller and weighed 20 more lbs..And, just because he excels in the slot, does not mean he doesn't have to potential to be a go-to guy. He is lightning fast, and can beat most DB's in any situation. I have seen numerous times he was wide open, and didn't get the ball thrown to him often..(see last week).

I did notice the past 2 weeks that the "leash" has been taken off him on returns. I have a feeling he was instructed that if there was any inkling of a doubt about a pr, to err on the side of caution, and just don't lose possession (as the other returners had drops and/or muffs). The last few weeks I have seen him taking a few more chances, and he had a couple decent run backs, almost breaking one last week.

Ty is a great talent..lets just sit back and enjoy as he grows into a quality WR and returner..and possibly an elite in the future...

The man no one corner can stop...


#39 UKColt13

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:57 PM

I can definitely see him being the next Austin Collie, but he needs a lot of work to become the next Reggie Wayne.

As for looking for the next #87 in this years draft? Honestly, I'm happy with our receivers this year. We need to re-sign Avery this year. He has been as productive as we could have expected. I can see us drafting our next number in 2014. Sammy Watkins I like, great speed, excellent in space, runs good routes. Only I fear he may well be long gone by the time we pick next year (hopefully).
Twitter: @AidenRudd

#40 cbear

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

Not until he stops dropping catchable passes. But the potential is certainly there....






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