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if the colts are 6 points down with two minutes to go and one time out


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#41 indy1888

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:04 PM

Thanks for the pop psych eval, but "the decision" has nothing to do on whether or not I have faith in luck to bring us back vs a good team. Furthermore, the question was asked if the colts are down by 6, do you have faith in Luck to bring us back so your comment regarding The defense getting us behind has nothing to do with the discussion. In fact, it is still a come from behind victory if you had a lead and squandered it. Finally, Peyton Manning does hold the record for come from behind victories and in the 15 or so years I have watched him, I have gotten used to him doing that. Hopefully Andrew will come from behind as often as Peyton or Eli and my brain will soon grow to be accustomed to coming back vs legitimate contenders. I definitely think he has the potential, the entire reason I was confident in him during the Jags game.

One last note ... Andrew Luck took the blame for the loss to the Jags. I'm glad he holds himself to a higher standard than you do.


All that and you still failed to explain to me how Luck leading his team to a go ahead scoring drive with under a minute to play was a failure.

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#42 Yehoodi

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:07 PM

do you think luck would lead them to the go ahead score


Luck certainly has the potential to do it, as I think a lot of other QBs too . . . its 4 down territory all the way so the Qbs have 4 downs to play with . . . and he will certainly have his chances in his career and will pull out some of those game . . .

#43 House

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:10 PM

Its pretty simple, but I'll try again.

I had faith in andrew luck to rally us from behind in the jags game.
when he failed to secure a come from behind victory, I lost that faith.

do you understand now?

its not subject to your opinion even though you are free to continue sharing yours.


haha gotcha. I thought we were having a discussion, but you just wanted to say your things over and over.

No big deal my mistake.

Carry on.

lmao
In another moment, down went Alice after it, never once considering how in the world she was to get out again.

#44 indy1888

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:13 PM

Its pretty simple, but I'll try again.

I had faith in andrew luck to rally us from behind in the jags game.
when he failed to secure a come from behind victory, I lost that faith.

do you understand now?

its not subject to your opinion even though you are free to continue sharing yours.


LOL

Wow.

You lost faith in his ability to lead a game winning drive even though he lead what should have been a game winning drive if not for the defense giving up an 80 yard TD? Let me ask you then, had the D not gave up that TD, would your faith had been restored in Luck?

Another question, was your faith restored in the next game and then in the Titans game?

#45 BleedingBlue

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

All that and you still failed to explain to me how Luck leading his team to a go ahead scoring drive with under a minute to play was a failure.



I really don't like being put in the antagonist position when I simply stated my opinion. Its silly to argue about someones performance when they themselves are on record being disspointed with their performance.
Calvin Johnson drops 2 passes in the 4th Quarter? Really?

#46 indy1888

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:29 PM

I really don't like being put in the antagonist position when I simply stated my opinion. Its silly to argue about someones performance when they themselves are on record being disspointed with their performance.


He's a pro, rarely do they ever admit with being happy about how they played, even if deep down they are. You should know that, how many times has Manning fed everyone a bunch of * about needing to play better, etc. Even in games where he was dang near perfect.

And, are you wanting to discuss the entire game performance or the actual topic of this thread? This thread was about the 2 minute drills, and then you brought up the Jags game which included a successful 2 minute drill. The goal of a 2 minute drill is to get points and hopefully a win if its at the end of the game. Luck did his part in the 2 minute drill, the defense didn't. End of discussion, those are facts. Not even pure hatred toward Andrew Luck and Jim Irsay can change that.

#47 BleedingBlue

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

LOL

Wow.

You lost faith in his ability to lead a game winning drive even though he lead what should have been a game winning drive if not for the defense giving up an 80 yard TD? Let me ask you then, had the D not gave up that TD, would your faith had been restored in Luck?

Another question, was your faith restored in the next game and then in the Titans game?


I've wasted enough of my time on this....

I will have faith in someone to do something when they prove they can routinely do it. Not when anyone tells me to.
Calvin Johnson drops 2 passes in the 4th Quarter? Really?

#48 Coltswarriors

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:55 PM

Yes.

Luck has been clutch all season, when he gives us a reason to doubt then we can question it. Until then? We've always got a chance with some time left on the clock.

#49 GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:55 PM

Against the Jags? Sure.
Against a good team. No.

for some reason the green bay and Minnesota games come to mind...




#50 BleedingBlue

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:10 PM

Not even pure hatred toward Andrew Luck and Jim Irsay can change that.


Wow.

Its statements like these that I'm becoming more and more reluctant to engage with people on these forums. It is clear that spent most of my night defending a statement i made to person who is clearly ignorant regarding my opinion of Andrew Luck.

I find it ridiculous that some people here have the need to categorize folks into a group.
Calvin Johnson drops 2 passes in the 4th Quarter? Really?

#51 Stephen

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:39 AM

Vikings and greenbay are definiely good teams

#52 Gavin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:08 AM

Lets be honest, if he cant do that then fact is as good as he has been (considering its his rookie year) then we honestly have the wrong guy QBing our team, with that said I have no question/s that he could

#53 Gavin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:45 AM

no trolls i like the colts but the stats show that Griffin is indeed #1 sry

Then by all means explain to me why Luck has more passing yards and touchdown passes (and is only 1 rushing touchdown behind the speed demon that is Robert Griffin)and also explain to me why Luck has us fighting for playoff positioning and you guys are fighting for draft position, its been well documented, well at least stated numerous times by numerous analysts that the Redskins were clearly the better team at this point, Keep in mind you cant use the poor defense card, Just take a look at who we will be lining up in the Secondary this week......Against Tom Brady

#54 No 1 Manning Fan

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:06 PM

So then clutch is what the player desires to do rather than what is done? For example, if Luck was to throw for the endzone but get picked off, is he still clutch? Or is clutch the guy who makes the play over and over again (let's say a checkdown for 7 yards), but gets his team into field goal range? Then, if the kicker misses the FG, is the QB still clutch? Is Russell Wilson clutch for his play at the end of the Packers' game? In my opinion, the "clutch" factor is extremely overrated.


I think clutch is mental. It is the ability to play better in tense situations. Some people don't perform well under those situations, some do. I would say that clutch is not only the willingness take those chances, but also to convert on a majority of those plays.

I would rather never see my team in that sort of situation, but it still happens. You have to have a QB, and other play makers as well, that have the mental ability to step up in those moments. This is what clutch is to me, playing bigger when the moment gets bigger.

#55 21isSuperman

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

I think clutch is mental. It is the ability to play better in tense situations. Some people don't perform well under those situations, some do. I would say that clutch is not only the willingness take those chances, but also to convert on a majority of those plays.

I would rather never see my team in that sort of situation, but it still happens. You have to have a QB, and other play makers as well, that have the mental ability to step up in those moments. This is what clutch is to me, playing bigger when the moment gets bigger.

Mark Sanchez took the Jets to 2 AFC Championship Games. And the playoffs are certainly a pressure-filled time. Since he succeeded in those moments, is he clutch?
When Bob Sanders executes a push up, he does not push himself up. He pushes the world down.
When Bob Sanders was 12, a cobra bit him in the leg. After 4 days of excruciating pain, the cobra died.
Tom Brady can throw a football pretty far. Bob Sanders can throw Tom Brady even farther.
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#56 basketballsteve

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:21 PM

Essentially that's what the Bills had the chance to do last week and they choked.....Andrew doesn't choke, when the game is on the line Andrew has won it every time so far. (1st Jags game not his fault).

#57 No 1 Manning Fan

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:23 PM

Mark Sanchez took the Jets to 2 AFC Championship Games. And the playoffs are certainly a pressure-filled time. Since he succeeded in those moments, is he clutch?


I think consistency has to come into the equation. If Michael Jordan had only hit a game winning shot over Craig Ehlo, he wouldn't have been considered clutch. It would just be one amazing shot. Rather it was his body of work. His team counted on him to be clutch in close games.

I think Manning is a great player in the clutch. He is great in the two minute drill, he is great at coming back from a deficit. Again, you have to look at his body of work.

Sanchez is obviously not clutch. Playing in two high pressure games doesn't make a clutch player. He lacks any kind of consistency. He's not dependable under stressful situations. In fact, maybe that should be the definition of clutch... Dependability under stressful situations. Manning isn't going to win 100% of the time, but his team knows they can depend on him in crunch time and they (at least the offense) have usually responded. Otherwise, I doubt he'd have the most 4th quarter comebacks.

Is it all the QB? No. It is a team game and everyone has to play well in the clutch. But it takes a leader the entire team can look to and depend on too.

You may still disagree, but I think there is a strong mental side to performance that all great athletes or performers of any kind have to have to be great. They have to have that drive to rise up above adversity.

#58 Gavin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:44 PM

Mark Sanchez took the Jets to 2 AFC Championship Games. And the playoffs are certainly a pressure-filled time. Since he succeeded in those moments, is he clutch?

I tend to think Sanchez by no means is he a top quarterback in the league, his struggles are overblown, He will probably never be known as a guy that can make others around him great of course because he is certainly far from great himself, But I think he is in that 2nd tier of QB's such as

Carson Palmer
Andy Dalton
Tony Romo
Matt Stafford (Need to see more consistency out of him before he makes the elite list)
Jay Cutler
Matt Ryan(Same as Stafford)
Matt Schaub
Joe Flacco

(Thats not to say he is as good as all of those mentioned on that list)

Guys like that are second tier guys in my opinion with a couple of them having a chance to reach elite (Ryan, Dalton, Stafford and you can put Schaub on that list although he is the oldest out of that group outside Romo and Palmer but neither is going to be elite anytime soon mainly do to the clock is not on there side)

#59 21isSuperman

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:06 PM

I tend to think Sanchez by no means is he a top quarterback in the league, his struggles are overblown, He will probably never be known as a guy that can make others around him great of course because he is certainly far from great himself, But I think he is in that 2nd tier of QB's such as

Carson Palmer
Andy Dalton
Tony Romo
Matt Stafford (Need to see more consistency out of him before he makes the elite list)
Jay Cutler
Matt Ryan(Same as Stafford)
Matt Schaub
Joe Flacco

(Thats not to say he is as good as all of those mentioned on that list)

Guys like that are second tier guys in my opinion with a couple of them having a chance to reach elite (Ryan, Dalton, Stafford and you can put Schaub on that list although he is the oldest out of that group outside Romo and Palmer but neither is going to be elite anytime soon mainly do to the clock is not on there side)

I think you're giving Sanchez too much credit. I think Sanchez is a backup QB at best. I would take everyone on that list and even other QBs before I took Sanchez. I think Sanchez was just there for the ride and was asked not to screw things up instead of actually going out and winning games.

I think consistency has to come into the equation. If Michael Jordan had only hit a game winning shot over Craig Ehlo, he wouldn't have been considered clutch. It would just be one amazing shot. Rather it was his body of work. His team counted on him to be clutch in close games.

I think Manning is a great player in the clutch. He is great in the two minute drill, he is great at coming back from a deficit. Again, you have to look at his body of work.

Sanchez is obviously not clutch. Playing in two high pressure games doesn't make a clutch player. He lacks any kind of consistency. He's not dependable under stressful situations. In fact, maybe that should be the definition of clutch... Dependability under stressful situations. Manning isn't going to win 100% of the time, but his team knows they can depend on him in crunch time and they (at least the offense) have usually responded. Otherwise, I doubt he'd have the most 4th quarter comebacks.

Is it all the QB? No. It is a team game and everyone has to play well in the clutch. But it takes a leader the entire team can look to and depend on too.

You may still disagree, but I think there is a strong mental side to performance that all great athletes or performers of any kind have to have to be great. They have to have that drive to rise up above adversity.

I understand what you mean. I just think that every player does their best to execute on each play. Mentally, I don't think there are many good QBs in the league that are ok with having a bad play, regardless of when that play happens. Guys like Matt Ryan, Peyton, Brees, etc. are always looking to make a good play, regardless of the time left on the clock. They are never happy throwing a pick. They always want their drives to end in TDs, regardless of whether it is the first drive of the 3rd quarter or the 2 minute drill. That's just how I feel though.
When Bob Sanders executes a push up, he does not push himself up. He pushes the world down.
When Bob Sanders was 12, a cobra bit him in the leg. After 4 days of excruciating pain, the cobra died.
Tom Brady can throw a football pretty far. Bob Sanders can throw Tom Brady even farther.
Please make sure to read the Forum Rules before posting or PM a mod if you have any questions

#60 No 1 Manning Fan

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:47 PM

I think you're giving Sanchez too much credit. I think Sanchez is a backup QB at best. I would take everyone on that list and even other QBs before I took Sanchez. I think Sanchez was just there for the ride and was asked not to screw things up instead of actually going out and winning games.


I understand what you mean. I just think that every player does their best to execute on each play. Mentally, I don't think there are many good QBs in the league that are ok with having a bad play, regardless of when that play happens. Guys like Matt Ryan, Peyton, Brees, etc. are always looking to make a good play, regardless of the time left on the clock. They are never happy throwing a pick. They always want their drives to end in TDs, regardless of whether it is the first drive of the 3rd quarter or the 2 minute drill. That's just how I feel though.


I agree with y

#61 No 1 Manning Fan

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

I think you're giving Sanchez too much credit. I think Sanchez is a backup QB at best. I would take everyone on that list and even other QBs before I took Sanchez. I think Sanchez was just there for the ride and was asked not to screw things up instead of actually going out and winning games.


I understand what you mean. I just think that every player does their best to execute on each play. Mentally, I don't think there are many good QBs in the league that are ok with having a bad play, regardless of when that play happens. Guys like Matt Ryan, Peyton, Brees, etc. are always looking to make a good play, regardless of the time left on the clock. They are never happy throwing a pick. They always want their drives to end in TDs, regardless of whether it is the first drive of the 3rd quarter or the 2 minute drill. That's just how I feel though.


I agree with you on all of that. I think you are absolutely right. I just think that a clutch player steps up when the heat is up and lesser players get rattled and/or shrink away.

#62 oldunclemark

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

Against the Jags? Sure.
Against a good team. No.


Against NE at NE.....no

#63 Stephen

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

Against NE at NE.....no

i think he could as long as he doesn't do what bills qb did

#64 oldunclemark

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:47 PM

i think he could as long as he doesn't do what bills qb did


we wont be 6 down with 2 minutes left..this is just a bad matchup

#65 BleedingBlue

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:21 PM

honestly, I'm not concerned about NE. I think we have a cance.
The only thing that concerns me is that they run well and we can't stop the run.

We can attack their D and put points up.

Its the Texans and Denver that have me the most worried in the AFC. Denver has it all right now, ST, D and the Sherriff .
Calvin Johnson drops 2 passes in the 4th Quarter? Really?

#66 oldunclemark

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

honestly, I'm not concerned about NE. I think we have a cance.
The only thing that concerns me is that they run well and we can't stop the run.

We can attack their D and put points up.

Its the Texans and Denver that have me the most worried in the AFC. Denver has it all right now, ST, D and the Sherriff .


BB..we have little chance to stop Tom Brady...from hitting his squadron of receivers without our top two corners.. Its is what it is.

#67 BleedingBlue

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:37 PM

You may still disagree, but I think there is a strong mental side to performance that all great athletes or performers of any kind have to have to be great. They have to have that drive to rise up above adversity.


I can't agree with this more. I hate to say it but our guy was struggling until Chuck was diagnosed. I think this whole thing took the pressure off him. Like Reggie said, it puts things in perspective. Playing football doesn't seem so important when you think about your coach fighting for his life. I think the entire thing took the pressure off Luck and he has blossomed.
Calvin Johnson drops 2 passes in the 4th Quarter? Really?






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