If we went RG3 instead of Luck would we still be 6-3?

[Tony Sullivan]

Vice versely, if the Redskins had Luck would they only be 3-6?

Just something I thought of when my friends were talking about who is better.

Personally I don't think so. Not even to knock RG3 because he's been tremendous as well, but when you're watching Luck you're truly seeing greatness develop week in week out.

[shakedownstreet]

no because i think it's strong leadership that has willed us to this record. not meant as a slight to robert, but luck has demonstrated a lot of subtle hints that he has superior leadership qualities

[Tark The Shark]

Luck just fits better in our system.

I like RG3 and his unrivaled talent.

Luck has better intangibles and has more close wins, while RG3 loses those close games.

[IndyD4U]

No, plain and simple.

[chad72]

It was a matter of time before the gushing of Luck poured over to Luck vs Peyton and Luck vs RG3 threads.

Luck was asked if he watches RG3 and he said "yes, as a fan of football, I do. But I cant get caught up in what one person does and try to base my performance on that and it would be a disservice to my team." Great answer, IMO, on NFL Network!!!

If Luck lost both Freeney and Mathis for the season like they lost Orakpo and Carriker, lost Wayne to injury like they lost Garcon who was projected to be their No.1 WR for a while, we will not be 6-3, hands down!!! Let Luck play in the NFC East, that will sure complicate things. Flip side, if RG3 had Wayne, Freeney and Mathis for the most part in the AFC South playing for us, we MAY be 6-3 as well.

So, this discussion is comparing apples to oranges, IMO!!!

With the NFC being more strong and their divisions being stronger, Cam Newton and RG3 will have more struggles for wins than Luck, I am sure we have had this discussion before. Plus, stability from top to bottom is there with a solid organization like the Colts. When Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers were drafted, they went into great situations with great organizations from top to bottom, that played a big part in their success. Luck has been drafted into a better situation than RG3, hands down, IMO!!! So, for the same talent, there will be more results to show with Luck. Not that Luck does not have to do anything with it but I do believe his situation in the AFC and AFC South will help his cause more with all other things considered equal.

Look at Alex Smith, how long it took for his potential to come out due to circumstances beyond his control. The same thing will happen to Blaine Gabbert with a new owner and possible a new GM next year, and possibly a new coach too. Similar thing with Philip Rivers, though coaching has been a big part but lack of retention of talent by A.J.Smith is a big factor too. No wonder Eli refused to go to the Chargers.

Organizations and circumstances do matter, if you want to think about it objectively!!!

[bayone]

It was a matter of time before the gushing of Luck poured over to Luck vs Peyton and Luck vs RG3 threads.

Luck was asked if he watches RG3 and he said "yes, as a fan of football, I do. But I cant get caught up in what one person does and try to base my performance on that and it would be a disservice to my team." Great answer, IMO, on NFL Network!!!

If Luck lost both Freeney and Mathis for the season like they lost Orakpo and Carriker, lost Wayne to injury like they lost Garcon who was projected to be their No.1 WR, we will not be 6-3, hands down!!! Let Luck play in the NFC East, that will sure complicate things. Flip side, if RG3 had Wayne, Freeney and Mathis for the most part, we MAY be 6-3.

So, this discussion is comparing apples to oranges, IMO!!!

agreed

[dw49]

You would also need to factor in the fact that Shanahan is running an offense that was much like RG3 ran in college. If he came to the Colts , I think he would have a tougher adjustment period.

[John Dee]

It was a matter of time before the gushing of Luck poured over to Luck vs Peyton and Luck vs RG3 threads.

Luck was asked if he watches RG3 and he said "yes, as a fan of football, I do. But I cant get caught up in what one person does and try to base my performance on that and it would be a disservice to my team." Great answer, IMO, on NFL Network!!!

If Luck lost both Freeney and Mathis for the season like they lost Orakpo and Carriker, lost Wayne to injury like they lost Garcon who was projected to be their No.1 WR, we will not be 6-3, hands down!!! Let Luck play in the NFC East, that will sure complicate things. Flip side, if RG3 had Wayne, Freeney and Mathis for the most part, we MAY be 6-3.

So, this discussion is comparing apples to oranges, IMO!!!

One could argue the Colts have lost their 2 best D players for nearly every game this season when you combine DFree and Mathis's games missed along with Angerer. DB's rotating in and out every week

And RG3 didn't seem to miss Garcon when he was torching all those horrible D's early in the year.

Luck may have lost his best WR Collie.. And Indy's OL has been mixing and matching all season. Wash doesn't have one on it's injury report.

The Colts have had just as much bad luck injury wise as Wash. Only diff. Coaching and Luck.

Indy is just stepping up and getting it done... Shanny and Wash have already gave up on the season.

By the way I'd like to see what Luck would be doing with the #1 running game in the NFL ?

[John Dee]

You would also need to factor in the fact that Shanahan is running an offense that was much like RG3 ran in college. If he came to the Colts , I think he would have a tougher adjustment period.

yep.... Luck had to learn a totally new O. Not RG3

[chad72]

One could argue the Colts have lost their 2 best D players for nearly every game this season when you combine DFree and Mathis's games missed along with Angerer. DB's rotating in and out every week

And RG3 didn't seem to miss Garcon when he was torching all those horrible D's early in the year.

Luck may have lost his best WR Collie.. And Indy's OL has been mixing and matching all season. Wash doesn't have one on it's injury report.

The Colts have had just as much bad luck injury wise as Wash. Only diff. Coaching and Luck.

Indy is just stepping up and getting it done... Shanny and Wash have already gave up on the season.

By the way I'd like to see what Luck would be doing with the #1 running game in the NFL ?

RG3 lost recently to both the Steelers and Panthers, who are better teams than their records indicate. I am just not wanting to deride RG3 while gushing praise on Luck.

That was my whole point. I dont think RG3 is doing as bad as people are making him out to be. I also believe RG3 could be doing just as well as Luck with the Colts team because I do think the Colts have a longer culture of winning with vets like Wayne, Freeney and Mathis knowing how to win in the league in crunch situations. I cant think of the Redskins as a team with a similar culture recently. Culture does not happen overnight, so that is why I feel the organization does matter.

[Nobody]

Yes, let's not pretend injuries haven't affected us greatly as well. Injuries to our CBs made us put a backup S on Cecil Shorts, who took a slant 80 yards for the game winning score. Idk if Griffin has had a chance to show he is clutch, but if he isn't, we would have won like 1 or 2 games.

[John Dee]

RG3 lost recently to both the Steelers and Panthers, who are better teams than their records indicate. I am just not wanting to deride RG3 while gushing praise on Luck.

That was my whole point. I dont think RG3 is doing as bad as people are making him out to be. I also believe RG3 could be doing just as well as Luck with the Colts team because I do think the Colts have a longer culture of winning with vets like Wayne, Freeney and Mathis knowing how to win in the league in crunch situations. I cant think of the Redskins as a team with a similar culture recently. Culture does not happen overnight, so that is why I feel the organization does matter.

I agree with this but when I heard RG3 say "the game is easier than practice" and that the RAMS I think where hitting too hard.. and "being unprofessional" ...

That's all I needed to hear... this dude has a LONG way to go before he gets near Luck's level of maturity.

[chad72]

I agree with this but when I heard RG3 say "practice is harder than the game" and that the RAMS I think where hitting to hard.. and "being unprofessional" ...

That's all I needed to hear... this dude has a LONG way to go before he gets near Luck's level of maturity.

No doubt about that, Luck's maturity level is higher. Besides, RG3 is the new kid on the block that they are invested in so much that it is a fine line between providing him a lot of leeway with what he does and says, and reining him in.

This is how I see it. RG3 has more of a driver's seat with the Redskins while Luck is driving with the others in the back of the Colts bus very well knowing he is a fine driver when he is needed.

However, if RG3 goes on a run while Luck has a bad turn of events, we may be forced to sing a different tune, that is why I am cautiously optimistic.

RG3 is just a bit more outspoken, we midwesterners like to keep it quiet.

[John Dee]

"practice is harder than the game" ..

[indy1888]

If Luck lost both Freeney and Mathis for the season like they lost Orakpo and Carriker, lost Wayne to injury like they lost Garcon who was projected to be their No.1 WR for a while, we will not be 6-3, hands down!!! Let Luck play in the NFC East, that will sure complicate things. Flip side, if RG3 had Wayne, Freeney and Mathis for the most part in the AFC South playing for us, we MAY be 6-3 as well.

So, this discussion is comparing apples to oranges, IMO!!!

With the NFC being more strong and their divisions being stronger, Cam Newton and RG3 will have more struggles for wins than Luck, I am sure we have had this discussion before. Plus, stability from top to bottom is there with a solid organization like the Colts. When Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers were drafted, they went into great situations with great organizations from top to bottom, that played a big part in their success. Luck has been drafted into a better situation than RG3, hands down, IMO!!! So, for the same talent, there will be more results to show with Luck. Not that Luck does not have to do anything with it but I do believe his situation in the AFC and AFC South will help his cause more with all other things considered equal.

Freeney has missed a couple games and played hurt in all the others. He's also been close to non factor. Mathis has missed several games as well. They aren't out for the season, but they have missed games so far so i'm not sure that's the greatest of points. Luck lost Austin Collie who would have been just as big for the Colts. Outside of Wayne, he's throwing to rookies and a guy in Avery who was unemployed.

The Colts were the worst team in the league last season. They won 2 games. Then they fired just about every single person in the coaching staff and front office. Are you sure Luck was drafted into the "better situation". That's easy to say now that the guy has exceeded every expectation and has the Colts in the playoff hunt, but i sure as heck wouldn't have said he was coming into a better situation before the season.

[chad72]

That's easy to say now that the guy has exceeded every expectation and has the Colts in the playoff hunt, but i sure as heck wouldn't have said he was coming into a better situation before the season.

I wouldn't have said that short term before the season, I would agree there but I do believe the situation is better for Luck now. I did expect the Titans and Jaguars to be better than they are. But long term, I do believe Luck getting drafted into the Colts, to the AFC and AFC South has a better long term situation than RG3 drafted with the Redskins, in the NFC and NFC East. But organization wise, I do believe the Colts are a better organization than the Redskins, no doubt in my mind. Better organization definitely is conducive to a better situation long term, IMO.

[Qwiz]

I agree with this but when I heard RG3 say "the game is easier than practice" and that the RAMS I think where hitting too hard.. and "being unprofessional" ...

That's all I needed to hear... this dude has a LONG way to go before he gets near Luck's level of maturity.

I don't get it. What's wrong with his belief that the game is easier than practice? And the Rams weren't hitting too hard, that was not his complaint at all. Do you not like how he doesn't thank every defender and give him congrats like 12 does after hits? He came from a military family and is just as mature as 12 is. No need to knock another QB just because yours is winning and the other team's is not. No need to act like obnoxious Patriot fans...

[Qwiz]

Freeney has missed a couple games and played hurt in all the others. He's also been close to non factor. Mathis has missed several games as well. They aren't out for the season, but they have missed games so far so i'm not sure that's the greatest of points. Luck lost Austin Collie who would have been just as big for the Colts. Outside of Wayne, he's throwing to rookies and a guy in Avery who was unemployed.

The Colts were the worst team in the league last season. They won 2 games. Then they fired just about every single person in the coaching staff and front office. Are you sure Luck was drafted into the "better situation". That's easy to say now that the guy has exceeded every expectation and has the Colts in the playoff hunt, but i sure as heck wouldn't have said he was coming into a better situation before the season.

Missed a couple of games is not the same as losing defenders for the rest of the season very early in the season. 12 came over to a weak division in an even weaker conference...this type of success was not expected but is still not too surprising when you measure who the Colts have played and how mediocre the AFC is. Griffin, however, has to face Eli, Romo, and Vick, though Vick is not performing as well as he usually did in the past. He also faced teams like the Saints and Steelers. He is, in my opinion, a much more difficult situation, with lackluster wide receivers. He lost his best TE for the season as well. Thank goodness he has a running game or things would probably be even harder for him.

[BleedBlu8792]

You would also need to factor in the fact that Shanahan is running an offense that was much like RG3 ran in college. If he came to the Colts , I think he would have a tougher adjustment period.

To be honest Arians spead-style offense is closer to what RG3 ran in college than the option-read/pistol offense that Shanny is running. You don't throw for 4700 yards in an option-read offense in college like RG3 did last year. The Redskins defense is terrible and took a huge shot when Orakpo and Kerrigan went out. This Colts defense has came through quite well over the past few weeks.

I think RG3 would probably be better suited for this offense moreso than the one he is running in Washington. Lots of shotgun formations and allowing him to use his arm with the ability to take off if nothing is there. No different than what Luck is doing now.

I still don't believe the Colts nor the Redskins could have went wrong with either pick. Both are going to be fantastic players for years.

[Stephen]

Missed a couple of games is not the same as losing defenders for the rest of the season very early in the season. 12 came over to a weak division in an even weaker conference...this type of success was not expected but is still not too surprising when you measure who the Colts have played and how mediocre the AFC is. Griffin, however, has to face Eli, Romo, and Vick, though Vick is not performing as well as he usually did in the past. He also faced teams like the Saints and Steelers. He is, in my opinion, a much more difficult situation, with lackluster wide receivers. He lost his best TE for the season as well. Thank goodness he has a running game or things would probably be even harder for him.

eli is tough romo and vick not so much

[chad72]

Missed a couple of games is not the same as losing defenders for the rest of the season very early in the season. 12 came over to a weak division in an even weaker conference...this type of success was not expected but is still not too surprising when you measure who the Colts have played and how mediocre the AFC is. Griffin, however, has to face Eli, Romo, and Vick, though Vick is not performing as well as he usually did in the past. He also faced teams like the Saints and Steelers. He is, in my opinion, a much more difficult situation, with lackluster wide receivers. He lost his best TE for the season as well. Thank goodness he has a running game or things would probably be even harder for him.

Agreed on the bolded parts.

I still think Luck, by virtue of being less outspoken than RG3, fits the midwest crowd better. That can definitely be perceived as being less mature, I am just as guilty of that perception at times, but we have to give the benefit of doubt to different personalities and come to terms with it.

[Stephen]

I don't get it. What's wrong with his belief that the game is easier than practice? And the Rams weren't hitting too hard, that was not his complaint at all. Do you not like how he doesn't thank every defender and give him congrats like 12 does after hits? He came from a military family and is just as mature as 12 is. No need to knock another QB just because yours is winning and the other team's is not. No need to act like obnoxious Patriot fans...

rg3 felt the rams were taking cheap shots that game and some of them were but he should have kept that to himself but I do feel both rg3 and luck are good. Another rookie that doesn't get as much attention is russell wilson. he has 13 tds to 8 ints and is the only rookie to throw three passing tds in a game this year and he did it twice. If he keeps that up he may beat peytons passing td record

[Qwiz]

eli is tough romo and vick not so much

Yeah, I should have said Cowboys and Eagles. The Eagles haven't played the Skins yet I don't think but they are perennial contenders with the exception of this year, and the Cowboys, minus Romo of course, are a very talented team with a good defense.

[chad72]

rg3 felt the rams were taking cheap shots that game and some of them were but he should have kept that to himself but I do feel both rg3 and luck are good. Another rookie that doesn't get as much attention is russell wilson. he has 13 tds to 8 ints and is the only rookie to throw three passing tds in a game this year and he did it twice. If he keeps that up he may beat peytons passing td record

However, his play is night and day between home and away. Luck and RG3 have at least been respectable on the road compared to Russell Wilson, IMO. Wilson however has been exceptional at home. Must be the 12th man advantage in Seattle???

[Qwiz]

Agreed on the bolded parts.

I still think Luck, by virtue of being less outspoken than RG3, fits the midwest crowd better. That can definitely be perceived as being less mature, I am just as guilty of that perception at times, but we have to give the benefit of doubt to different personalities and come to terms with it.

Out of likes already, so you get a Well Done, sir.

[indy1888]

Missed a couple of games is not the same as losing defenders for the rest of the season very early in the season. 12 came over to a weak division in an even weaker conference...this type of success was not expected but is still not too surprising when you measure who the Colts have played and how mediocre the AFC is. Griffin, however, has to face Eli, Romo, and Vick, though Vick is not performing as well as he usually did in the past. He also faced teams like the Saints and Steelers. He is, in my opinion, a much more difficult situation, with lackluster wide receivers. He lost his best TE for the season as well. Thank goodness he has a running game or things would probably be even harder for him.

It's not that much different. The rest of the season has not been played. We are talking about right now. Dwight Freeney has missed basically 3 games and played hobbled in all the others. Mathis has missed several games. Pat Angerer, our starting LB missed the first 6 or 7 games due to injury. Our CB's have missed several games. Yeah, Griffin lost his best tight end, 7 games into the season. I thought it didn't count unless those inured guys missed all the season? Or do you just work your argument around in order to fit your agenda?

It's hilarious though to suggest that this type of success from the Colts is not too surprising. I'm sure you predicted this type of success right? I mean, we win 2 games last year, we fire our coaching staff and front office. We completely gut the team and start over. Over half the roster is rookies or first year Colts, mostly castoffs. Yeah, it was a situation primed for a playoff run. Get real

[Qwiz]

rg3 felt the rams were taking cheap shots that game and some of them were but he should have kept that to himself but I do feel both rg3 and luck are good. Another rookie that doesn't get as much attention is russell wilson. he has 13 tds to 8 ints and is the only rookie to throw three passing tds in a game this year and he did it twice. If he keeps that up he may beat peytons passing td record

Eh, if I was getting pushed around at work by my customers and getting yelled at all day despite my best efforts to please them I would probably complain to my boss but I see how it could have benefited Griffin to stay quiet. You are right about Russell...He has a monster defense backing him up too, though, so I see that being taken into account with the media. Everyone knows that 12 and Griffin are the elite QBs of this draft class, head and shoulders above the others. That's why they get so much attention I think.

[Warhorse]

I think they are both doing equally great jobs.

[Qwiz]

It's not that much different. The rest of the season has not been played. We are talking about right now. Dwight Freeney has missed basically 3 games and played hobbled in all the others. Mathis has missed several games. Pat Angerer, our starting LB missed the first 6 or 7 games due to injury. Our CB's have missed several games. Yeah, Griffin lost his best tight end, 7 games into the season. I thought it didn't count unless those inured guys missed all the season? Or do you just work your argument around in order to fit your agenda?

It's hilarious though to suggest that this type of success from the Colts is not too surprising. I'm sure you predicted this type of success right? I mean, we win 2 games last year, we fire our coaching staff and front office. We completely gut the team and start over. Over half the roster is rookies or first year Colts, mostly castoffs. Yeah, it was a situation primed for a playoff run. Get real

Dwight Freeney and Mathis are considered among the best DEs/LBs in the AFC, they will perform well whenever they get the chance to play. And they will continue playing unlike Orakpo and Kerrifan, the best defenders on the Redskins, who will not have a chance to compete and help their team at all this season Griffin losing his best TE isn't the biggest part of my argument, I am saying that it will and has cost him a few games already, considering that his wide receivers can't find Waldo to save their lives. No, it is not too surprising. I didn't predict it but when you factor all things in, it is not surprising. Who have the Colts beat that you honestly expected them to lose to? You gutted the roster of people your own fans deemed useless, old, or not as good as they used to be. You also drafted speedy receivers and big TEs. I'm not talking playoffs for the Colts, so I don't know where that part of your argument came from. You should take your own advice about getting real.

[Stephen]

Eh, if I was getting pushed around at work by my customers and getting yelled at all day despite my best efforts to please them I would probably complain to my boss but I see how it could have benefited Griffin to stay quiet. You are right about Russell...He has a monster defense backing him up too, though, so I see that being taken into account with the media. Everyone knows that 12 and Griffin are the elite QBs of this draft class, head and shoulders above the others. That's why they get so much attention I think.

true the only real difference so far is wilson doesn't air it out as much but he is good with td passes in redzone something luck needs to improve on I think tannehill will be a beast soon as well the only one I'm not sold on is weeden

[Stephen]

However, his play is night and day between home and away. Luck and RG3 have at least been respectable on the road compared to Russell Wilson, IMO. Wilson however has been exceptional at home. Must be the 12th man advantage in Seattle???

many people say seattle has best homefield advantage

[Nobody]

Who have the Colts beat that you honestly expected them to lose to?

The Packers, who crushed you.

[Qwiz]

true the only real difference so far is wilson doesn't air it out as much but he is good with td passes in redzone something luck needs to improve on I think tannehill will be a beast soon as well the only one I'm not sold on is weeden

He aired it out against the Packers though, especially on that last play... Tannehill is definitely going to be a problem especially if his coach continues to take the Dolphins in the right direction. No one expected him to be this good, and a lot didn't even expect him to start so early. Proves that the pundits know what their talking about, right?

[Qwiz]

The Packers, who crushed you.

Well, every team has a bad game, Texans and Packers included. Okay, besides that emotionally charged, cocky-to-the-point-of-not-making adjustments game, who else? That's five more games unaccounted for. Even the Patriots lost to the Cardinals, the Saints to the rookie Griffin. At least we lost to a quality team...

[indy1888]

Dwight Freeney and Mathis are considered among the best DEs/LBs in the AFC, they will perform well whenever they get the chance to play. And they will continue playing unlike Orakpo and Kerrifan, the best defenders on the Redskins, who will not have a chance to compete and help their team at all this season Griffin losing his best TE isn't the biggest part of my argument, I am saying that it will and has cost him a few games already, considering that his wide receivers can't find Waldo to save their lives. No, it is not too surprising. I didn't predict it but when you factor all things in, it is not surprising. Who have the Colts beat that you honestly expected them to lose to? You gutted the roster of people your own fans deemed useless, old, or not as good as they used to be. You also drafted speedy receivers and big TEs. I'm not talking playoffs for the Colts, so I don't know where that part of your argument came from. You should take your own advice about getting real.

Freeney has had little impact all season long. As big a fan of the Colts you appear to be, i'm sure you have watched all the games and noticed, right? He's been working on one leg most of the season. To answer your question, i predicted the Colts to lose a lot of games this year. 10 in fact. Don't believe me? Do a simple search of some of the prediction threads here and see.

And i don't need to get real. I already know you know are a fan of the Texans who spends most of his time, (even on Texans gameday), trying to mimimize every thing the Colts and Luck do. You were all over Bob's sack earlier this year while taking every shot you could at Luck. Now that Luck and the Colts are 6-3 and surprising everyone in football,(except you apparently), and the Redskins are losing, now you want to make excuses as to why this is happening. That's what real here. Now, don't the Texans have a big game today?

[indy1888]

The Packers, who crushed you.

His whole mission is to minimize every achievement from the Colts. Not many people at all expected the Colts to be a 6-3 team. Most said they were an expansion team. I'm about ready to put the troll on ignore.

[Qwiz]

Freeney has had little impact all season long. As big a fan of the Colts you appear to be, i'm sure you have watched all the games and noticed, right? He's been working on one leg most of the season. To answer your question, i predicted the Colts to lose a lot of games this year. 10 in fact. Don't believe me? Do a simple search of some of the prediction threads here and see.

And i don't need to get real. I already know you know are a fan of the Texans who spends most of his time, (even on Texans gameday), trying to mimimize every thing the Colts and Luck do. You were all over Bob's sack earlier this year while taking every shot you could at Luck. Now that Luck and the Colts are 6-3 and surprising everyone in football,(except you apparently), and the Redskins are losing, now you want to make excuses as to why this is happening. That's what real here. Now, don't the Texans have a big game today?

Me? A Colts fan? Well, I guess GoPats, Dynasty, Yehoodi, JJ, and quite a few others here are Colts fans too, and watch every game, even though all they do is post on the Colts forum. That's great logic there, man. Considering that the Colts are currently 6-3, your prediction of losing 10 games hasn't quite been disproven yet. The Texans don't play till 7:30 tonight...so I can't get on my computer at 11 in the morning? Again, take your schedule into account. I don't take shots at 12, actually, because I am not as spiteful as so many on this board are. We do have a big game...possibly a SB preview, actually, in case you were wondering.

[Stephen]

He aired it out against the Packers though, especially on that last play... Tannehill is definitely going to be a problem especially if his coach continues to take the Dolphins in the right direction. No one expected him to be this good, and a lot didn't even expect him to start so early. Proves that the pundits know what their talking about, right?

argg I don't count that play. The replacement refs blew that game.

[Qwiz]

His whole mission is to minimize every achievement from the Colts. Not many people at all expected the Colts to be a 6-3 team. Most said they were an expansion team. I'm about ready to put the troll on ignore.

You're putting yourself on ignore? Good luck with that, I don't know if it is possible.

[Qwiz]

argg I don't count that play. The replacement refs blew that game.

The replacement refs didn't blow anything, in my opinion. It was just a scapegoat kind of game, but everyone has their own opinions about that lol.