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do we have a "moneyball" type team?


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#1 trueblueblood

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

I saw moneyball last night and it reminded me of our team. We have a lot of good players that we got pretty cheap and some diamonds in the rough... and we have a ton of cap space next season.

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#2 Tark The Shark

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:29 PM

Baseball is different than football.

That being said, I would agree with that logic.

Maybe in another decade they could make a movie about this team.
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#3 Fx Stryker

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

The only difference between this year and last is that Curtis Painter isn't the starting QB.

#4 betheafan41

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

If we make the post season then yeah i would say it is something along those lines. BUT we also did not trade any star players unlike the A's who traded away Carlos Pena, Jeremy Giambi (who was arguably their best hitter that year). but we did bring in cheaper fill in players who have together produced a winning record and a spot in the playoffs so far. and i agree with the above statement lol maybe they will make a movie about the colts in about 10 years. hmmm i should get started on writing out the movie. and give tark the shark some credit for the idea haha

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#5 betheafan41

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:44 PM

The only difference between this year and last is that Curtis Painter isn't the starting QB.


but curtis was not the starter the whole year. we had three different starters. Kerry collins and Orlovsky and Painter.

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#6 trueblueblood

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:46 PM

Well yeah... baseball is definitely different. Im just saying, the concept is similar. When you have a good GM and scouts, you can find good players for cheap

#7 Balzer40

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:47 PM

Its not even close to the same thing. The only reason the Colts have cheap players is because they have so much dead money this yr.. Come next yr., they will be right up against the cap just like they always have. The A's are just cheap and have a cheap owner.

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#8 trueblueblood

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:47 PM

The only difference between this year and last is that Curtis Painter isn't the starting QB.


I can think of a LOT more things then that

#9 cmgww

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

It feels similar... baseball is a lot different but it is a similar story if the Colts keep winning. And I would disagree with betheafan41; we cut Pro Bowlers Gary Bracket and Dallas Clark, solid players like Tamme and Addai (solid w/ the Colts anyways), so in that aspect this team is a lot like those 2002 As. That said, they didn't have a future HOFer (if things go as planned) at their most important position. In baseball my best comparison would be an ace pitcher or clean up hitter, but no position is more important to any team than a QB is to his team. That's the big difference
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#10 Fx Stryker

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

but curtis was not the starter the whole year. we had three different starters. Kerry collins and Orlovsky and Painter.


He was the majority though.

Collins 0-3
Painter 0-8
Orlovsky 2-3

He was the QB for the easy game we should have won.

That being said we had a lot of good players last year, and a lot are back from last year.

#11 Smonroe

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:11 PM

The only difference between this year and last is that Curtis Painter isn't the starting QB.


Yeah, I know what you mean. You put Luck on last years team and we're flirting with a playoff spot IMHO. The O line was actually better than it was in 10. And we had plenty of veterans.

#12 betheafan41

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:16 PM

i know this is off topic, but has anyone seen the updated projections on the first round of the draft in 2013??? we are projected to get Chance Warmack OG from Bama. oh and were projected to pick 23rd i believe it is.

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#13 indy1888

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:21 PM

The only difference between this year and last is that Curtis Painter isn't the starting QB.


Well that and the fact that over half the roster is different.

#14 Nobody

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

We're similar to this past MLB seasons Orioles. A young team that all play for cheap, play their hearts out, and somehow win. A team that may not win the big one this season, but you know will be close to in a few years.
I will delete this when the new Colts win a Super Bowl.

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#15 throwing BBZ

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

Moneyball? Ya, I see it.
These New low cost players are a big part of the Glue holding this together.
I see all of them as players I hope are back for season 2. Get as many good players into the system into years 3,4,5 as you can.
Belichik has a history of not overpaying. I expect Grigson to accumulate lots of Solid playmakers thru the draft, and the same with FA.
I don`t see him paying $10M a year for a C. Finnegan.

D. Avery
V. Davis
M. Fokou
J. Freeman
W. Justice
M. McGlynn
C. Redding
S Satele
A.Q. Shipley
T. Zbikowski

#16 Andy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:52 PM

Didn't the As do it with like a 55 million dollars payroll, compared to the hundreds of millions that the Yankees and Red Sox have...? That's not like the Colts.

Baseball and football are very different and you really can't compare them at all.

The Colts are this year's surprise, that's it. It's not a cinderella story, it's not that something like this is very rare. There is always one team each year that surprises and this year it's us. With that being said, there are 8 games left, so it's far from over.

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#17 Superman

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:05 PM

He was the majority though.

Collins 0-3
Painter 0-8
Orlovsky 2-3

He was the QB for the easy game we should have won.

That being said we had a lot of good players last year, and a lot are back from last year.


Please don't sell short the impact that coaching and adjustments have made on our performance this season. Our coaching has not been perfect, but it's been significantly better than it was last year, on both sides of the ball.
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#18 NorCalColt

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:08 PM

I hope the Colts aren't like the Oakland A's or any other Sabermetrics team. Sabermetrics are a cute story, have meant a division title or wild card run every now and then, but not one championship, no sustained success. Money, payroll, wins in baseball. And pitching in October. So the comparison to me would not be the Orioles (they had no-name pitchers), but the Giants. Luck is any of the young gun arms of the Giants. Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, and Posey were all first round picks of the Giants - so they drafted well, a rarity in baseball. Grigson appears to be one for one too, although there is a lot of football left this year, not to mention in the careers of the Colts players picked this season. I do get the point though - a lot of youth, a mix of some vets who didn't have a home anywhere else, and the couple 'stars' who make up the Colts roster do have a more us against them, team that overcomes, kind of feel.

#19 #12

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

Well that and the fact that over half the roster is different.


That and different management, a new coaching staff, new offensive system, new defensive system. Aside from that, it's exactly the same.

#20 John Dee

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

I saw moneyball last night and it reminded me of our team. We have a lot of good players that we got pretty cheap and some diamonds in the rough... and we have a ton of cap space next season.


Indy hit the cap limit because of DEAD money... Next season... Indy, will be in the cat bird seat... Money wise... Dead money gone.. poooof...
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#21 John Dee

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

Next man up... this team is just stepping up...

S Satele and Justice leave and Shipley and Soul (sp) don't even know dudes name comes in and ball.............

This team is living on the edge but what the hey..... Live in the NOW.

Why not Indy?
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#22 John Dee

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:41 PM

Moneyball? Ya, I see it.
These New low cost players are a big part of the Glue holding this together.
I see all of them as players I hope are back for season 2. Get as many good players into the system into years 3,4,5 as you can.
Belichik has a history of not overpaying. I expect Grigson to accumulate lots of Solid playmakers thru the draft, and the same with FA.
I don`t see him paying $10M a year for a C. Finnegan.

D. Avery
V. Davis
M. Fokou
J. Freeman
W. Justice
M. McGlynn
C. Redding
S Satele
A.Q. Shipley
T. Zbikowski


I would take Finnegan in a heartbeat... for 10m +
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
Aldous Huxley

#23 Warhorse

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:37 PM

Well that and the fact that over half the roster is different.


.......and an entirely new coaching staff, GM, physicians, ball boys.............

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#24 NewColtsFan

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:43 PM

The only difference between this year and last is that Curtis Painter isn't the starting QB.



Really? You really think that?

You don't think Grigson has turned over this roster considerably?

I think since I arrived many long time Colt's fans have marveled at how much change Grigson has brought to this roster.

You think the only real change is the Quarterback?

I'm guessing you're in the middle of finals at Penn State. A lack of sleep will do that to you! Good luck, hope you do well! :thmup:

#25 NewColtsFan

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:46 PM

i know this is off topic, but has anyone seen the updated projections on the first round of the draft in 2013??? we are projected to get Chance Warmack OG from Bama. oh and were projected to pick 23rd i believe it is.



Who projected that? Someone other than a fan from this website?

Not that I'm aware of. I know of no one who puts out a mock draft who projects us to be picking 23rd AND to be taking Warmack. If so, let a poster provide that link....

#26 John Dee

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:15 PM

Really? You really think that?

You don't think Grigson has turned over this roster considerably?

I think since I arrived many long time Colt's fans have marveled at how much change Grigson has brought to this roster.

You think the only real change is the Quarterback?

I'm guessing you're in the middle of finals at Penn State. A lack of sleep will do that to you! Good luck, hope you do well! :thmup:


I think FX drinks more than I do...

hehe...
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Aldous Huxley

#27 John Dee

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:20 PM

Who projected that? Someone other than a fan from this website?

Not that I'm aware of. I know of no one who puts out a mock draft who projects us to be picking 23rd AND to be taking Warmack. If so, let a poster provide that link....



Indy will be picking to late to get Warmack. And some mocks simply go a random draw others are projected and some go off current standings.

If the later Indy would be picking around the early 20's.

Who cares... Indy WILL sign a ALL PRO type talent next off season..


Clady or Long anyone?
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#28 NewColtsFan

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:57 PM

Who cares... Indy WILL sign a ALL PRO type talent next off season..


Clady or Long anyone?


I wouldn't bet the farm on that. On any prediction. First, I'm not convinced we'll sign a current all-pro, but we may sign a future all-pro, someone who Grigson thinks is an under-the-radar developing talent, rather than one who is already there.

Second, I don't think either Clady or Long will be available to anyone. Each team will either Franchise Tag or sign them Long Term. I'm not sure why any Colts fan doesn't embrace this concept, but many don't.

If I had $1 for every time I've read a Colts fan saying we're going to sign Clady or Long, I'd be rich.

I just don't see it happening.... not sure why anyone would....

#29 Corndog

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

Didn't the As do it with like a 55 million dollars payroll, compared to the hundreds of millions that the Yankees and Red Sox have...? That's not like the Colts.

Baseball and football are very different and you really can't compare them at all.

The Colts are this year's surprise, that's it. It's not a cinderella story, it's not that something like this is very rare. There is always one team each year that surprises and this year it's us. With that being said, there are 8 games left, so it's far from over.

I would probably include Miami on that list, they were expected by many, to be the worst team in the NFL this year.

#30 Fx Stryker

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:55 PM

Really? You really think that?

You don't think Grigson has turned over this roster considerably?

I think since I arrived many long time Colt's fans have marveled at how much change Grigson has brought to this roster.

You think the only real change is the Quarterback?

I'm guessing you're in the middle of finals at Penn State. A lack of sleep will do that to you! Good luck, hope you do well! :thmup:


Don't try and tell me what a turn around it has been. You don't know, but I don't expect you to know anything about the team before April 2012.

#31 unitaswestand

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:11 PM

It shows you that a true "team" will always beat teams like the Eagles. The Eagles have all this money in their team, but they can't win. I think Pagano and Grigson did a great job of bringing in guys who are team players who maybe aren't elite players, but they play together as a team.

I expect next year, even with money available, Grigson is not going to go after huge names. It will be mid level free agents with the right attitude and team mentality.

#32 unitaswestand

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:18 PM

I wouldn't bet the farm on that. On any prediction. First, I'm not convinced we'll sign a current all-pro, but we may sign a future all-pro, someone who Grigson thinks is an under-the-radar developing talent, rather than one who is already there.

Second, I don't think either Clady or Long will be available to anyone. Each team will either Franchise Tag or sign them Long Term. I'm not sure why any Colts fan doesn't embrace this concept, but many don't.

If I had $1 for every time I've read a Colts fan saying we're going to sign Clady or Long, I'd be rich.

I just don't see it happening.... not sure why anyone would....


I completely agree. And I am not sure why we would go after a left tackle. Castonzo is our best lineman, young, and cheap right now. I would think if we went after free agents, it would be at the guard position or right tackle. I don't see Castonzo being moved to right tackle. Another that kind of is a head scratch is when I read we should go after Mike Wallace. TJ Hilton, in my opinion, is very similar to Wallace and will develop. WR is arguably one of our stronger positions. I would much rather see OG, RT, C, Safety, and CB addressed by the draft and FA.

#33 NewColtsFan

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:21 PM

Don't try and tell me what a turn around it has been. You don't know, but I don't expect you to know anything about the team before April 2012.


Just because I wasn't a fan of the team before April of this year, doesn't mean I haven't been following it.

Haven't there been any number of stories about this team having a huge number of players who are either rookies, or 1st/2nd year types. Complete unknowns. Isn't that what we talked about right here on this very website in the off-season?

Just look at the roster...... it's loaded with guys who weren't on the team last year. Do you really want me to count them and list them here?

The fact that you've been a Colt's fan longer than I have doesn't mean you're automatically right and I'm automatically wrong.

Facts are facts, and there are a ton of guys who just weren't here last year, whether you want to believe it or not.

Sorry.

#34 betheafan41

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

Who projected that? Someone other than a fan from this website?

Not that I'm aware of. I know of no one who puts out a mock draft who projects us to be picking 23rd AND to be taking Warmack. If so, let a poster provide that link....


http://www.cbssports.../nfl/draft/mock

there is one right there although Warmack is not the pick its CB Johnathan Banks from Miss. State!

and this one on bleacherreport.com has us picking 21st not 23rd sorry and getting warmack....
http://bleacherrepor...-week-9/page/22

me personally, i think we need to address our defensive needs in the draft and address the offensive side of the ball in free agency. we will have the money to spend on offense. as i saw what someone else posted and i agree, i doubt warmack falls that far down so defense would be the best thing to work on in the draft. especially at LB if freeney is not resigned. and lord knows our secondary needs help.

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#35 NewColtsFan

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:04 PM

http://www.cbssports.../nfl/draft/mock

there is one right there although Warmack is not the pick its CB Johnathan Banks from Miss. State!

and this one on bleacherreport.com has us picking 21st not 23rd sorry and getting warmack....
http://bleacherrepor...-week-9/page/22

me personally, i think we need to address our defensive needs in the draft and address the offensive side of the ball in free agency. we will have the money to spend on offense. as i saw what someone else posted and i agree, i doubt warmack falls that far down so defense would be the best thing to work on in the draft. especially at LB if freeney is not resigned. and lord knows our secondary needs help.



Thanks Bethea for the links.... always appreciate it.... even though, in these cases, CBS Sports and Bleacher Report are two of my least favorite sites for draft material. For me, they're one rung up from worthless. But, their information is out there for all to see...

What can I tell you.....

#36 schwamm

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:22 PM

http://www.cbssports.../nfl/draft/mock

there is one right there although Warmack is not the pick its CB Johnathan Banks from Miss. State!

and this one on bleacherreport.com has us picking 21st not 23rd sorry and getting warmack....
http://bleacherrepor...-week-9/page/22

me personally, i think we need to address our defensive needs in the draft and address the offensive side of the ball in free agency. we will have the money to spend on offense. as i saw what someone else posted and i agree, i doubt warmack falls that far down so defense would be the best thing to work on in the draft. especially at LB if freeney is not resigned. and lord knows our secondary needs help.

I'd prefer going BPA, and fill whatever other needs we have thru FA, instead of worrying about focussing on either O of D.

Truth is we have too many needs everywhere to focus on a position or side of the ball.

I am forever grateful for all the great players I've been fortunate enough to watch play the game with horseshoes on their helmets,

and I'm eagerly anticipating the opportunity to see which new Colts become the stars and fan favorites of tomorrow.


#37 oldunclemark

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:23 PM

I saw moneyball last night and it reminded me of our team. We have a lot of good players that we got pretty cheap and some diamonds in the rough... and we have a ton of cap space next season.


Its true..but we didnt want it this way........this wasn't a plan

#38 lollygagger8

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:27 PM

People actually still watch baseball??

#39 mvbighead

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

The only problem with that analogy, to me, is they weighted talent differently than other teams. They were undervalued players, but measured up elsewhere (on base percentage).

There is nothing like that going on here. My thoughts are this:

The Polian method of paying your star players only goes so far. His idea was to keep stars, and allow other players to go as they were "just" role players. Problem with that is that you tend to lose players early and often, right when they're hitting their prime in their spot of talent (be it LB or wherever). The other problem with this approach is that when your stars are sitting with injuries, the rest of your squad is pretty green, and you're not likely to compete at a high level.

The current method seems to be that we have filled our roster with a bunch of C and B level players who were expendable to other systems. Redding was a compliment to Ngata and some of the other guys on that squad. On our team, he is a pretty solid contributor. Same with Zibby, though his performance until the last week or two has been in question. But we've brought in a handful.

In any case, we brought in a handful of undervalued guys that have fairly good boom or bust potential. And right now, most of them seem to be either somewhere above the middle of boom/bust, and some are closer to boom (Redding).

Long story short, I think this is a good approach moving forward. Spread that money around as best you can while still keeping your stars as much as possible.

#40 FireJimCaldwell

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:38 PM

I wouldn't call it a money ball team. For it to be accurately called a money ball team, Grigson would have a set of metrics that would likely find a Division 3 player that was selected over any name player, and that example would have to happen on numerous occasions.

I just think with the salary cap the way it is he's had to consciously find players that fit the system and that has more than once ended up with him choosing a player with ties to the coaches or himself, whether that is Pit/Philly/Balmore.






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