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#41 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:15 PM

lol. Thank you for clearing that up for me. EYE SIGHT is more accurate than official team data measured with scales. lol. Wow...what a joke.

Andrew Luck is actually 6'7"... I have no evidence to support that, but you must believe me! I can see it! lol. Don't try to refute me with your facts!


no matter what i say i get the feeling you're not going to believe it...for no other reason than not admitting you're wrong. it's common knowledge...if you don't want to believe that fine.

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#42 FightLikeSin

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:35 PM

no matter what i say i get the feeling you're not going to believe it...for no other reason than not admitting you're wrong. it's common knowledge...if you don't want to believe that fine.


no. If you are going to call me ignorant, you must have factual evidence that I am. Telling me that I'm wrong for citing information about a player from two different sources from annual measurements is fine, as long as you can provide a source of truth that tells me i'm wrong. If you happened to know the players personally, I'd believe you. But you telling me that your justification is based on your EYE SIGHT is just flat out laughable. Even if they currently weigh more than advertised, you have to at least acknowledge that at one point in the beginning of the season when they were weighed in at training camp, they were still a dominant player. So your point still holds no water.

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#43 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:27 PM

no. If you are going to call me ignorant, you must have factual evidence that I am. Telling me that I'm wrong for citing information about a player from two different sources from annual measurements is fine, as long as you can provide a source of truth that tells me i'm wrong. If you happened to know the players personally, I'd believe you. But you telling me that your justification is based on your EYE SIGHT is just flat out laughable. Even if they currently weigh more than advertised, you have to at least acknowledge that at one point in the beginning of the season when they were weighed in at training camp, they were still a dominant player. So your point still holds no water.


dear god.......the eye site comment was obviously kind of a joke, but i like they way you totally ignored the rest of my statement. players, coaches, etc have joked about listed measurables for years.....it's nothing new. it was a running joke with gilbert brown back when he played with the packers....his own teammates laughed about it....john madden made jokes about. but since i personally don't know the player, i'm sure you will dismiss it.

and you really think the coaching/training staff care about updating roster measurable for fan websites? look at vince wilfork, he admittedly lost considerable weight in the off season, but his listed weight is still 325...the same as it has been for years. i highly doubt anyone on the patriots staff is going to get fired for not updating that fact on patriots.com.

#44 NewColtsFan

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

I would have stepped in earlier with this on-going back and forth on players and weights and media guides and such, but I had NO IDEA this would still be going on and on and on like the Energizer Bunny.

I like both posters here, so I have no skin in the game,

But as a 30 year member of the media, who dealt with the men who wrote the media guides and put out this kind of information, YES, information in media guides is often -- but not always -- not accurate.

Guys are often listed as taller than they really are.... this usually, but not always gets corrected after the combine where real heights and weights are released these days... This starts in HS where players are often listed as taller... then the kid gets to college and they're often listed by the heights where their cleats... just like NBA players are often (almost always) listed by their heights wearing sneakers.

And, when it comes to weight..... well, it's a sensitive issue. Some teams have weight limits and so their weight is often listed at the upper reaches of that limit... but the players don't want to be embarrassed.... as for the guy we are talking about, I don't think Wilfork has been 325 in some time. I think he gets away with it because he's still playing at a high level and he's a team leader. But if he wasn't, I think Belichek would not be happy and if need be, would cut him.... deliver and you can get away with being over weight. Don't, and you may be unemployed sooner than you think.

Some players gain weight during the season. Some lose weight during the season. But the weight that's reported never changes in the media guide. And is only sometimes reported by the media covering the team. Depends on whether it's good news or bad... and does the team want it 'out there' for all eyes to see....

Sorry this post got long and a bit rambling, but I wanted to cover all the bases....

If you have questions, I'll be happy to try and answer any....

#45 FightLikeSin

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:36 AM

dear god.......the eye site comment was obviously kind of a joke, but i like they way you totally ignored the rest of my statement. players, coaches, etc have joked about listed measurables for years.....it's nothing new. it was a running joke with gilbert brown back when he played with the packers....his own teammates laughed about it....john madden made jokes about. but since i personally don't know the player, i'm sure you will dismiss it.

and you really think the coaching/training staff care about updating roster measurable for fan websites? look at vince wilfork, he admittedly lost considerable weight in the off season, but his listed weight is still 325...the same as it has been for years. i highly doubt anyone on the patriots staff is going to get fired for not updating that fact on patriots.com.


That still doesn't prove your point. The fact that they were listed at any time at the weight that I cited, still means that you can be under the "typical" weight and still be a good player. Can you really argue against that? I'm sure you will...

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#46 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:43 AM

That still doesn't prove your point. The fact that they were listed at any time at the weight that I cited, still means that you can be under the "typical" weight and still be a good player. Can you really argue against that? I'm sure you will...


yes, because i clearly stated it was impossible to be a good player if one wasn't a typical size.....you are just being argumentative at this point.

#47 FightLikeSin

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:41 AM

yes, because i clearly stated it was impossible to be a good player if one wasn't a typical size....


ok...


i just don't see micheal johnson being a 34 DE.....he weighs about the same as freeney, but is 6 inches taller.


is that not the point you made here? You dismiss his talent because he's not meeting your particular standard of a 3-4 DE. What if we had him play OLB? Is he too tall now?

Obviously, there is a difference of opinion on where he'd fit, but I guess I just like the idea of getting talent on the team, especially in the front seven...if he played DE/OLB like Freeney, he'd still be a huge help.


you are just being argumentative at this point.


Believe me, there's more worthwhile arguments I'd rather be having and i'm sure you feel the same. We'll agree to disagree.

Horse officially beaten.

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#48 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:17 PM

ok...




is that not the point you made here? You dismiss his talent because he's not meeting your particular standard of a 3-4 DE. What if we had him play OLB? Is he too tall now?

Obviously, there is a difference of opinion on where he'd fit, but I guess I just like the idea of getting talent on the team, especially in the front seven...if he played DE/OLB like Freeney, he'd still be a huge help.




Believe me, there's more worthwhile arguments I'd rather be having and i'm sure you feel the same. We'll agree to disagree.

Horse officially beaten.


fair enough

#49 Gavin

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

Johnson probably could play 3-4 DE but at his weight (if his weight is listed accurately, which is a big if 8 weeks into the season) he does not appear to be the DE we would go after, it appears we want our DE's pushing 300 or over, Could Johnson clog two gaps in our system? probably, That depends more on his strength then what the scales say, weight is not an accurate measure of strength, we know he has pass rush ability which is needed in a 3-4 on passing downs. In this defense the way we have currently constructed it, he would be an ROLB

#50 FightLikeSin

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:37 PM

Johnson probably could play 3-4 DE but at his weight (if his weight is listed accurately, which is a big if 8 weeks into the season) he does not appear to be the DE we would go after, it appears we want our DE's pushing 300 or over, Could Johnson clog two gaps in our system? probably, That depends more on his strength then what the scales say, weight is not an accurate measure of strength, we know he has pass rush ability which is needed in a 3-4 on passing downs. In this defense the way we have currently constructed it, he would be an ROLB


good points. Probably a better fit at OLB, but still a welcome addition to the team in any case.

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#51 Gavin

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

good points. Probably a better fit at OLB, but still a welcome addition to the team in any case.

Also I am not a guy that wants to hinge Johnsons ability to get to the QB on whether or not we get pressure, I like him but not enough to say ok your our hopes for the future, But your talking to a guy that wants Brandon Jenkins in the 3rd round ar RT Ryan Matthews or Chance Warmack or Barrett Jones in the 1st, Im tired of seeing Luck running because he has to, he has taken some mean shots this year

#52 FightLikeSin

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:15 AM

Also I am not a guy that wants to hinge Johnsons ability to get to the QB on whether or not we get pressure, I like him but not enough to say ok your our hopes for the future, But your talking to a guy that wants Brandon Jenkins in the 3rd round ar RT Ryan Matthews or Chance Warmack or Barrett Jones in the 1st, Im tired of seeing Luck running because he has to, he has taken some mean shots this year


Yeah. There's so many holes on this team that it could be argued that almost every position with some exclusions could stand to be upgraded in the draft. Nobody will collectively agree on one person, but I think in 2-3 years, we'll be in a good spot.

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