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HarassedOffTheSite

We're 5-3 with $38 Million in Dead Cap Space

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And for all intents and purposes should be 6-2. I don't think any of us (sane fans implied) thought we'd be here. And BTW the Manning led Broncos are 5-3 as well.

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Stop this nonsense about 6-2. We lost fair and square. It's like saying that second TD today should have been intercepted etc.

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$38 Million in Dead Cap Space

Polian consistently overpaid for mediocrity. I always felt you could have fielded a similar squad for cheap.

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so much ignorance in one place.

talk about a face palm...where do i start.

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so much ignorance in one place. talk about a face palm...where do i start.

At the beginning. -grin-

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And for all intents and purposes should be 6-2. I don't think any of us (sane fans implied) thought we'd be here. And BTW the Manning led Broncos are 5-3 as well.

That is true but Manning's schedule is WAY tougher than Luck's

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I get the point of the OP. We are a bit handicapped this season because of the way we terminated some contracts. We're allocating nearly $40 million of our $120 million cap space to players that are no longer on the team.

But the idea of "dead cap space" is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Or, I guess I should say, the idea that we're the only team with dead cap space is off base. Every team has dead cap space. The way contracts affect team payrolls means that there is necessarily a "dead cap hit" for a great deal of players on every roster. Dwight Freeney is the best example of this on our roster: his cap hit includes a prorated $5 million bonus that was actually part of a $30 million bonus that was paid several seasons ago. That's a dead cap hit. (Some would say his $14 million base salary for 2012 is a dead cap hit as well, but that's another discussion entirely.)

On our current roster, we don't have very many players that have large prorated bonuses hitting our cap this season. The biggest reason why that's the case is because our five best/most productive players this season are either lower paid players or just signed/re-signed this offseason, or both. For instance, Wayne and Mathis (both in that top five) just signed contracts that will average $6 million/year and $9 million/year, respectively. Their bonuses and first year salary are $8.5 million and $17 million, respectively. But their cap hits for 2012 are $3.5 million and $5.75 million, lower than both the yearly average and the 2012 total cash outlay. Same thing for Luck, Redding, Satele, and the other players we drafted and/or signed this past offseason. We're getting more bang for our buck on a significant portion of our roster, especially among key players.

The only players that are actually on the roster and taking up significantly more cap space than cash space are Freeney (plus $5 million), Vinatieri (plus $1.2 million), and Bethea (plus $1 million). Add to that the $38 million in "dead cap space" for players that aren't on the roster anymore, and we're at about $45 million.

Just as a spot comparison, I picked a team that is generally considered a well-run team, one that doesn't do a lot of flashy free agent signing, but is also up against the cap: the Steelers. They have about $10 million in "dead cap space" for players not on the roster. But they're prorating about $17.5 million in bonuses for Roethlisberger and six other players currently on their roster. So they actually have about $27.5 million in "dead cap space." The Giants have about $3 million "dead cap space," but they have about $24 million in prorated bonuses for 12 players. These are not comprehensive comparisons, just a quick look at the top guys whose 2012 cap hits included prorated bonus money.

Anyways, my point is just that "dead cap space" is not unique to the 2012 Colts. Having $38 million allocated to players no longer on the roster is an anomaly, but we're making up for some of that with contracts for guys we just signed/re-signed. And it's good that we're getting so much contribution from young, cheap players. It is a handicap, and it makes it somewhat difficult to field a competitive team. Of course, we've overcome it, sitting at 5-3, when most people didn't expect us to win five games all season.

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It is nice we'll have cap space next year but if you look at the cap space of other teams we arent the only team with money to spend this offseason.

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so much ignorance in one place.

talk about a face palm...where do i start.

Ya, it's like a DECADE of WINNING was an illusion.

sigh.. oh well..........

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It is nice we'll have cap space next year but if you look at the cap space of other teams we arent the only team with money to spend this offseason.

I may be wrong.. . but Indy should have THE MOST?????

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I get the point of the OP. We are a bit handicapped this season because of the way we terminated some contracts. We're allocating nearly $40 million of our $120 million cap space to players that are no longer on the team.

But the idea of "dead cap space" is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Or, I guess I should say, the idea that we're the only team with dead cap space is off base. Every team has dead cap space. The way contracts affect team payrolls means that there is necessarily a "dead cap hit" for a great deal of players on every roster. Dwight Freeney is the best example of this on our roster: his cap hit includes a prorated $5 million bonus that was actually part of a $30 million bonus that was paid several seasons ago. That's a dead cap hit. (Some would say his $14 million base salary for 2012 is a dead cap hit as well, but that's another discussion entirely.)

On our current roster, we don't have very many players that have large prorated bonuses hitting our cap this season. The biggest reason why that's the case is because our five best/most productive players this season are either lower paid players or just signed/re-signed this offseason, or both. For instance, Wayne and Mathis (both in that top five) just signed contracts that will average $6 million/year and $9 million/year, respectively. Their bonuses and first year salary are $8.5 million and $17 million, respectively. But their cap hits for 2012 are $3.5 million and $5.75 million, lower than both the yearly average and the 2012 total cash outlay. Same thing for Luck, Redding, Satele, and the other players we drafted and/or signed this past offseason. We're getting more bang for our buck on a significant portion of our roster, especially among key players.

The only players that are actually on the roster and taking up significantly more cap space than cash space are Freeney (plus $5 million), Vinatieri (plus $1.2 million), and Bethea (plus $1 million). Add to that the $38 million in "dead cap space" for players that aren't on the roster anymore, and we're at about $45 million.

Just as a spot comparison, I picked a team that is generally considered a well-run team, one that doesn't do a lot of flashy free agent signing, but is also up against the cap: the Steelers. They have about $10 million in "dead cap space" for players not on the roster. But they're prorating about $17.5 million in bonuses for Roethlisberger and six other players currently on their roster. So they actually have about $27.5 million in "dead cap space." The Giants have about $3 million "dead cap space," but they have about $24 million in prorated bonuses for 12 players. These are not comprehensive comparisons, just a quick look at the top guys whose 2012 cap hits included prorated bonus money.

Anyways, my point is just that "dead cap space" is not unique to the 2012 Colts. Having $38 million allocated to players no longer on the roster is an anomaly, but we're making up for some of that with contracts for guys we just signed/re-signed. And it's good that we're getting so much contribution from young, cheap players. It is a handicap, and it makes it somewhat difficult to field a competitive team. Of course, we've overcome it, sitting at 5-3, when most people didn't expect us to win five games all season.

Great post... ... Thank you bro...

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Any thoughts on potential free agents, from other teams, who may be interested in joining the Colts for the Andrew Luck era? One would think any offensive player (linemen, backs or receivers) would consider playing with Luck a great chance to increase their odds of winning the big one someday.

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I get the point of the OP. We are a bit handicapped this season because of the way we terminated some contracts. We're allocating nearly $40 million of our $120 million cap space to players that are no longer on the team.

But the idea of "dead cap space" is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Or, I guess I should say, the idea that we're the only team with dead cap space is off base. Every team has dead cap space. The way contracts affect team payrolls means that there is necessarily a "dead cap hit" for a great deal of players on every roster. Dwight Freeney is the best example of this on our roster: his cap hit includes a prorated $5 million bonus that was actually part of a $30 million bonus that was paid several seasons ago. That's a dead cap hit. (Some would say his $14 million base salary for 2012 is a dead cap hit as well, but that's another discussion entirely.)

On our current roster, we don't have very many players that have large prorated bonuses hitting our cap this season. The biggest reason why that's the case is because our five best/most productive players this season are either lower paid players or just signed/re-signed this offseason, or both. For instance, Wayne and Mathis (both in that top five) just signed contracts that will average $6 million/year and $9 million/year, respectively. Their bonuses and first year salary are $8.5 million and $17 million, respectively. But their cap hits for 2012 are $3.5 million and $5.75 million, lower than both the yearly average and the 2012 total cash outlay. Same thing for Luck, Redding, Satele, and the other players we drafted and/or signed this past offseason. We're getting more bang for our buck on a significant portion of our roster, especially among key players.

The only players that are actually on the roster and taking up significantly more cap space than cash space are Freeney (plus $5 million), Vinatieri (plus $1.2 million), and Bethea (plus $1 million). Add to that the $38 million in "dead cap space" for players that aren't on the roster anymore, and we're at about $45 million.

Just as a spot comparison, I picked a team that is generally considered a well-run team, one that doesn't do a lot of flashy free agent signing, but is also up against the cap: the Steelers. They have about $10 million in "dead cap space" for players not on the roster. But they're prorating about $17.5 million in bonuses for Roethlisberger and six other players currently on their roster. So they actually have about $27.5 million in "dead cap space." The Giants have about $3 million "dead cap space," but they have about $24 million in prorated bonuses for 12 players. These are not comprehensive comparisons, just a quick look at the top guys whose 2012 cap hits included prorated bonus money.

Anyways, my point is just that "dead cap space" is not unique to the 2012 Colts. Having $38 million allocated to players no longer on the roster is an anomaly, but we're making up for some of that with contracts for guys we just signed/re-signed. And it's good that we're getting so much contribution from young, cheap players. It is a handicap, and it makes it somewhat difficult to field a competitive team. Of course, we've overcome it, sitting at 5-3, when most people didn't expect us to win five games all season.

Another thing to consider is the carry-over effect. The Jags/Eagles have about 20 million on space in 2012, that they should easily be able to carry 15-18 million into next year. If the Eagles ditch Vick, they open another 15 for 2013, so a lot of depends on what each team has allocated into the 2013 cap.

So it's not a guarantee that the Colts will have the most money to spend.

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Just because you have money to spend, it does not mean that you will spend it wisely and well. Just ask the Redskins. :)

We are yet to have an offseason for Grigson with money to spend, so hopefully he does us proud.

The dead cap space, more than anything else, does help us retain the talent that we MUST retain, like Freeman etc.

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I get the point of the OP. We are a bit handicapped this season because of the way we terminated some contracts. We're allocating nearly $40 million of our $120 million cap space to players that are no longer on the team.

But the idea of "dead cap space" is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Or, I guess I should say, the idea that we're the only team with dead cap space is off base. Every team has dead cap space. The way contracts affect team payrolls means that there is necessarily a "dead cap hit" for a great deal of players on every roster. Dwight Freeney is the best example of this on our roster: his cap hit includes a prorated $5 million bonus that was actually part of a $30 million bonus that was paid several seasons ago. That's a dead cap hit. (Some would say his $14 million base salary for 2012 is a dead cap hit as well, but that's another discussion entirely.)

On our current roster, we don't have very many players that have large prorated bonuses hitting our cap this season. The biggest reason why that's the case is because our five best/most productive players this season are either lower paid players or just signed/re-signed this offseason, or both. For instance, Wayne and Mathis (both in that top five) just signed contracts that will average $6 million/year and $9 million/year, respectively. Their bonuses and first year salary are $8.5 million and $17 million, respectively. But their cap hits for 2012 are $3.5 million and $5.75 million, lower than both the yearly average and the 2012 total cash outlay. Same thing for Luck, Redding, Satele, and the other players we drafted and/or signed this past offseason. We're getting more bang for our buck on a significant portion of our roster, especially among key players.

The only players that are actually on the roster and taking up significantly more cap space than cash space are Freeney (plus $5 million), Vinatieri (plus $1.2 million), and Bethea (plus $1 million). Add to that the $38 million in "dead cap space" for players that aren't on the roster anymore, and we're at about $45 million.

Just as a spot comparison, I picked a team that is generally considered a well-run team, one that doesn't do a lot of flashy free agent signing, but is also up against the cap: the Steelers. They have about $10 million in "dead cap space" for players not on the roster. But they're prorating about $17.5 million in bonuses for Roethlisberger and six other players currently on their roster. So they actually have about $27.5 million in "dead cap space." The Giants have about $3 million "dead cap space," but they have about $24 million in prorated bonuses for 12 players. These are not comprehensive comparisons, just a quick look at the top guys whose 2012 cap hits included prorated bonus money.

Anyways, my point is just that "dead cap space" is not unique to the 2012 Colts. Having $38 million allocated to players no longer on the roster is an anomaly, but we're making up for some of that with contracts for guys we just signed/re-signed. And it's good that we're getting so much contribution from young, cheap players. It is a handicap, and it makes it somewhat difficult to field a competitive team. Of course, we've overcome it, sitting at 5-3, when most people didn't expect us to win five games all season.

I don't believe you are correct if you are saying that pro rated bounus are counted as "dead cap space." Maybe that's not what you're trying to say but I'm willing to say I'm pretty sure that Freeney's signing bonus signed 5-6 years ago has nothing to do with dead cap space. If Freeney wedre released then the part of his 30 million $ signing bounus that was not already pro rated would be dead cap space. For instance a player signs a 5 year deal and gets a 20 mill $ signing bounus. He is cut after 3 years. The team would take a 8million $ cap hit for the two years that were left on his contract 20 ÷ 5 X 2 + 8. In this case Freeney is in his last year of his contract and that pror ated 5 million is added to his base salary giving him a cap hit of around 19 million. Maybe you are not saying it is dead money , but it appears to read that way. Otherwords players that are still on the team never are counted as part of dead cap space.

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Bottom line.. this squad has some cheez to spend next season...

... heheh..

OL or CB...............................................

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Uhmmmm ok?

Never seen "Alice In Wonderland"?

It's what the Mad Hatter says. Start at the beginning, and when you come to the end... STOP.

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What 5-3 or better team is saddled with more dead cap than us?

No team -- regardless of record -- is carrying more dead cap money than the Colts.

That's bad. But, here's the good.

Our 'dead cap space' issues last a grand total of one season.

For instance, the Titans once had 3 straight years of dead cap money. They were in Dead Cap Money Heck. Those years the teams struggled badly and it led directly to Jeff Fisher leaving. Dead cap space issues effect all teams. Some worse than others. But, at least ours will be done after one year.

Next year, as far as money goes, it's 'Fat City' for the Colts.

Now, we just have to hope that there's good talent to buy in the 2013 Free Agency class, as well as good players in the 2013 draft of college players. And, as we sit here today, I'm not overly confident of either....

But that's another thread for another day.....

Today, as you noted, we're 5-3. I sure didn't see that coming.....

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I don't believe you are correct if you are saying that pro rated bounus are counted as "dead cap space." Maybe that's not what you're trying to say but I'm willing to say I'm pretty sure that Freeney's signing bonus signed 5-6 years ago has nothing to do with dead cap space. If Freeney wedre released then the part of his 30 million $ signing bounus that was not already pro rated would be dead cap space. For instance a player signs a 5 year deal and gets a 20 mill $ signing bounus. He is cut after 3 years. The team would take a 8million $ cap hit for the two years that were left on his contract 20 ÷ 5 X 2 + 8. In this case Freeney is in his last year of his contract and that pror ated 5 million is added to his base salary giving him a cap hit of around 19 million. Maybe you are not saying it is dead money , but it appears to read that way. Otherwords players that are still on the team never are counted as part of dead cap space.

All of what you're saying is true. However, technically speaking, any prorated bonus is "dead cap space," whether the player is still on the team or not. This is the case because that money is increasing your payroll figure above the actual money being paid.

To your point, at least the prorated bonus money for a player still on the roster is helping you on the field. In theory, at least.

But the point is that every team has cap issues due to prorated bonuses. And when you look at certain factors with our 2012 cap, you recognize that the team is actually making up for a lot of the dead cap hits with the structure of the new contracts, most of which are for our very best players.

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All of what you're saying is true. However, technically speaking, any prorated bonus is "dead cap space," whether the player is still on the team or not. This is the case because that money is increasing your payroll figure above the actual money being paid.

To your point, at least the prorated bonus money for a player still on the roster is helping you on the field. In theory, at least.

But the point is that every team has cap issues due to prorated bonuses. And when you look at certain factors with our 2012 cap, you recognize that the team is actually making up for a lot of the dead cap hits with the structure of the new contracts, most of which are for our very best players.

Fact is this. Most good teams have many players with large contracts that are eating up their cap space. Some cases pro rated bonuses , some cases base salaries. The Colts have dumped all their dead space into 2012 and have none going forward. We have one player with a large contract going forward. That is Mathis and it's only for 3 years and it's less than 10 mill per year. Beathea's is one of the larger one and we already paid for most of that one with a large 2010 roster bounus. Luck will cost about 5.5 mill for the next 3 years. No one else is going to get big money , unless you consider Wayne at around 6 mill big. This means we have tons of money to spend in the next couple of years.

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That's the interesting part. Yes we will have money to spend but is there really any talent that'll be out there that's really worth signing? I have a feeling we might be better off to draft and wait another year to really dive in.

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That's the interesting part. Yes we will have money to spend but is there really any talent that'll be out there that's really worth signing? I have a feeling we might be better off to draft and wait another year to really dive in.

You always over pay but that's pat of the game I guess.

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You always over pay but that's pat of the game I guess.

no it's not

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Fact is this. Most good teams have many players with large contracts that are eating up their cap space. Some cases pro rated bonuses , some cases base salaries. The Colts have dumped all their dead space into 2012 and have none going forward. We have one player with a large contract going forward. That is Mathis and it's only for 3 years and it's less than 10 mill per year. Beathea's is one of the larger one and we already paid for most of that one with a large 2010 roster bounus. Luck will cost about 5.5 mill for the next 3 years. No one else is going to get big money , unless you consider Wayne at around 6 mill big. This means we have tons of money to spend in the next couple of years.

Yup. I'm just saying that prorated bonuses are a part of the process of managing a cap. They are usually between $25-30 million in any given year, especially when you have good players making a lot of money. Our number is abnormally high this season, but it's not the end of the world.

And yes, we will be able to make some offers in free agency.

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That's the interesting part. Yes we will have money to spend but is there really any talent that'll be out there that's really worth signing? I have a feeling we might be better off to draft and wait another year to really dive in.

there are a lot of players that could help the colts. maybe not a lot of espn headline types, but those seem to turn out for the worse anyway.

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Just because you have money to spend, it does not mean that you will spend it wisely and well. Just ask the Redskins. :)

We are yet to have an offseason for Grigson with money to spend, so hopefully he does us proud.

The dead cap space, more than anything else, does help us retain the talent that we MUST retain, like Freeman etc.

he came out and said he doesn't believe in spending money just to spend it...so hopefull he spends wisely. lotta good potential FA in 2014 too

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no it's not

I think it's been pretty well established that teams tend to pay over market for the good free agent players.

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Henry Melton, Mike Wallace, Sebastian Vollmer, Kraig Urbik, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Bradley Fletcher

Also get a quality starter with that 32nd overall pick in the draft next year. ;)

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Henry Melton, Mike Wallace, Sebastian Vollmer, Kraig Urbik, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Bradley Fletcher

Also get a quality starter with that 32nd overall pick in the draft next year. ;)

You.. I like you.

I'd LOVE to get Mike Wallace. Imagine Luck with Wayne, Wallace, Avery, Hilton, Fleener, Brazill, and Allen?? I don't think there will be enough passing to go around. When Wayne hangs em up, I hope one of the receivers I mentioned will become a route-running sure-handed receiver. JMO, Brazill looked alot like Wayne on that 3-toe tap on the sideline late in the game.

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You.. I like you.

I'd LOVE to get Mike Wallace. Imagine Luck with Wayne, Wallace, Avery, Hilton, Fleener, Brazill, and Allen?? I don't think there will be enough passing to go around. When Wayne hangs em up, I hope one of the receivers I mentioned will become a route-running sure-handed receiver. JMO, Brazill looked alot like Wayne on that 3-toe tap on the sideline late in the game.

That just gave me a half chub.....I go full chub thinking about Melton beating up opponents interior line and DRC playing some strong, press coverage. :)

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I'll gladly pass on Mike Wallace...we don't need that contract. If we're gonna throw down some serious cash we gotta go after Jake Long or Jairus Byrd. This team needs major upgrades on defense and o-line to be a legitimate contender.

I like the potential of our two rookie wrs, and Wayne has a couple more years in the tank as our no.1.

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Available Cap $$$ Always goes first to retaining your own players. And they will expect Market Value. Our guys were on TV a lot and got a lot of attention.

Tho Dallas Clark could pass catch, he only had 3 above average seasons. And he couldn`t block at all. I believe his big contract made him the highest paid TE.

Addai made one Pro Bowl. They name them early and he had most of his yardage by the 10th week of the season. He always showed promise but was best as a pass blocker for $tat$, then as a dump off receiver, then as a runner.

Brackett became pretty decent on what was typically bad defenses. He got his $5M+ contract - Only out of respect for good service.

Freeney is still here because pass rush is so important and they needed some Box Office stars around, especially after the big SHOCK.

We will still build thru the draft, you have to.

Grigsons draft looks rock solid to me, much thanks to drafting at the FRONT of each round.

For next season we must add a couple studs on defense as we build the Monster.

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I think it's been pretty well established that teams tend to pay over market for the good free agent players.

those are just the ones you remember. nobody remembers deals like the saints got with darren sproles or the fair contract johnathon joseph got and has earned every penny.

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we do have a lot of cap space but we need to save up for when Lucks contract is over in 4 years. :)

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I'll gladly pass on Mike Wallace...we don't need that contract. If we're gonna throw down some serious cash we gotta go after Jake Long or Jairus Byrd. This team needs major upgrades on defense and o-line to be a legitimate contender.

I like the potential of our two rookie wrs, and Wayne has a couple more years in the tank as our no.1.

would love jarius byrd....goldson of the 49ers will also be a FA

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      Hey guys,   I have been posting for probably a year or so now.  I reside in Brazil, IN, which is about 20 minutes East of Terre Haute on I-70.  I'm 28 years old and have been a Colts fan since Harbaugh days, but really started following and rooting hard for them after they drafted Manning in 98.  I love our team and my family and I make sure we are ready to rock for every game.  We always have viewing parties at my father-in-laws or my house and are known to holler and scream at the TV!  Hope all is well with all of you, and GO COLTS!
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