Jump to content

  •  


 
Photo

Something I noticed about Donald Brown and his career numbers...


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
37 replies to this topic

#1 Indyfan4life

Indyfan4life

    King Optimistic

  • Member
  • 1312 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:20 AM

So I'm at work this morning looking around on Rotoworld and I was noticing something about Donald Brown. Each season his numbers are going up drastically.

2009 - Games 11 - Attempts 78 - Yards - 281 - AVG 3.6 - 100+ 0 - TD 3
2010 - Games 13 - Attempts 129 - Yards - 497 - AVG 3.9 - 100+ 1 - TD 2
2011 - Games 16 - Attempts 134 - Yards 645 - AVG 4.8 - 100+ 1 - TD 5


This years stats:
2012 - Games - 5 - Attempts 74 - Yards 319 - AVG 4.3 - 100+0 - TD 1


Considering he has missed a couple of games due to injury, I'd say he's on par for a career high in several stats. His lowest game of the season was against Minnesota with 16 attempts for 45 yards which was to be expected with their incredibly stout D-line. I definitely think the way he is running now, and the way our O-line is playing, he's got a really good shot at breaking 1,000 yards rushing this season. I also think with a few more carries in the Green Bay and Tennessee games, he could of broken 100 yards.

Just something interesting I noticed.

Thoughts?

Game Rewind: Relive every NFL moment…subscribe to Game Rewind.

#2 Tark The Shark

Tark The Shark
  • Member
  • 2391 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:41 AM

The new commitment to the running game will certainly help your stats.

Every game he has started, he has progressed each and every week.

Brown & Ballard could very well both have at least 800 yards rushing by the end of the year. As long as they both stay healthy.
“Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the heck you're doing.”- Peyton Manning

#3 JJ4JC

JJ4JC
  • New Member
  • 15 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:31 AM

Running backs need carries, I think we all know that. I wonder if DB has ever seen 25 carries in a game. The fact of the matter is unless you give a guy the ball 20+ times in a game, you really don't have enough data to make a fair assessment.

Remember Barry Sanders (an no, I don't think DB is Barry Sanders)? He was notorious for stringing together 5 straight negative carries before breaking a 25-30 yarder. The point is this: until we give DB the ball enough times we'll never know how good he really is. Just my opinion..

#4 Nobody

Nobody
  • Member
  • 4999 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:06 AM

Even if DB doesn't really break out, and Ballard becomes our long term starter (or someone else), I want us to keep him, even as just a guy used for outside runs and screen passes. He's explosive, and that Titans game was impressive. As weird as it sounds, it didn't seem like CJ was all that effective against us, and it seemed that Brown was tearing up the Titans D. The numbers say otherwise, but that's what it felt like.
I will delete this when the new Colts win a Super Bowl.

Come on boys, let's get rid of the rest of my sig!

#5 Slick_Rick

Slick_Rick
  • Member
  • 909 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:19 AM

A lot of that had to do with Joseph Addai. I remember in his rookie preseason, he really impressed me

#6 jbaron04

jbaron04
  • Member
  • 1384 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:13 PM

Brown is a back that you have to give touches an he can spring a big one but we tend to run an if it does work right away we give up on it

#7 Mouthfire

Mouthfire
  • Member
  • 998 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:25 PM

Brown is a back that you have to give touches an he can spring a big one but we tend to run an if it does work right away we give up on it


I'll say it again: a lot of the issues that we've been attributing to Brown are actually due to the offensive line. If you closely watch the flow of the games in early part of the year, you'll see that we began abandoning the run when we started to have runs for losses. Why were we running for negative yardage? Because the offense line was allowing backfield penetration 35-37% of the time... twice what every other team was allowing. It's hard to get positive yardage when you're hit as soon as you get the hand off.

For the past few games, we've gotten that backfield penetration down to the more normal 18-20%, and guess what? We're not running for negative yardage anymore. In fact, DB's consistently been running it down the gut for 4-5 yards per attempt. Not only that, but ALL of our backs are looking pretty good.

Good run game or bad run game... If you know what to watch for, you'll see that it really does hinge on the offensive line play.

#8 Gavin

Gavin
  • Member
  • 17043 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:55 PM

Brown is the type of Back that can get you 3-4 yards a carry but also can change a game on one carry or one missed tackle, with good to great O Line play Brown can be a VERY dangerous Back

#9 Gavin

Gavin
  • Member
  • 17043 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:06 PM

Even if DB doesn't really break out, and Ballard becomes our long term starter (or someone else), I want us to keep him, even as just a guy used for outside runs and screen passes. He's explosive, and that Titans game was impressive. As weird as it sounds, it didn't seem like CJ was all that effective against us, and it seemed that Brown was tearing up the Titans D. The numbers say otherwise, but that's what it felt like.

Johnsons longest run of the day was 14 yards he ended up with 99, Brown had 80 yards on 7 less carries. we wont get a full idea what Brown can do because the coaches have it in there head he isn't good enough to carry the load

#10 Mouthfire

Mouthfire
  • Member
  • 998 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:31 PM

Johnsons longest run of the day was 14 yards he ended up with 99, Brown had 80 yards on 7 less carries. we wont get a full idea what Brown can do because the coaches have it in there head he isn't good enough to carry the load


I see Donald Brown as an Arian Foster type. He's a speed back that really flourishes behind a consistent offensive line... except that Brown actually picks up more yards after contact. It'd be interesting to see what DB could do behind a top notch offensive line like Houston's.

#11 Nobody

Nobody
  • Member
  • 4999 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:36 PM

I see Donald Brown as an Arian Foster type. He's a speed back that really flourishes behind a consistent offensive line... except that Brown actually picks up more yards after contact. It'd be interesting to see what DB could do behind a top notch offensive line like Houston's.

Yeah, they're one cut backs. Brown is much faster, though.
I will delete this when the new Colts win a Super Bowl.

Come on boys, let's get rid of the rest of my sig!

#12 Gavin

Gavin
  • Member
  • 17043 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:38 PM

I see Donald Brown as an Arian Foster type. He's a speed back that really flourishes behind a consistent offensive line... except that Brown actually picks up more yards after contact. It'd be interesting to see what DB could do behind a top notch offensive line like Houston's.

Im glad we incorporated some Zone Blocking in the acheme, Im much more into that then Man, I think we have the O Line for Zone but not for Man, thoughts?

#13 Andy

Andy
  • Member
  • 8767 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:40 PM

He's on pace for 192 yards, 829 yards, and 3 touchdowns.

Those are very respectable numbers.

Andy
Writer for: The Montreal Gazette, and various other websites

Posted Image


#14 Gavin

Gavin
  • Member
  • 17043 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:49 PM

My math could be way off but 74 carries through 5 games is 14.8 carries per game or rounded up 15, 15X14 is 210 X 4.3 (for example if it stays at 4.3) is 903 yards

#15 Mouthfire

Mouthfire
  • Member
  • 998 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:53 PM

Im glad we incorporated some Zone Blocking in the acheme, Im much more into that then Man, I think we have the O Line for Zone but not for Man, thoughts?


Yeah, It's interesting the personnel they brought in for the man blocking scheme. A good offensive coordinator makes adjustments to fit the personnel. I'm just glad they eventually did it.

#16 Gavin

Gavin
  • Member
  • 17043 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:59 PM

Yeah, It's interesting the personnel they brought in for the man blocking scheme. A good offensive coordinator makes adjustments to fit the personnel. I'm just glad they eventually did it.

In my opinion by watching games from Philly(Zone Blocking) where Mcglynn played and the fact that guys like Linkenbach and Castonzo and Reitz were drafted or picked up by the Colts when they had the Zone Blocking it was kinda obvious that was the way to go, Mcglynn is agile for a big man even Olsen was drafted by Denver in there Zone Blocking scheme when Shanahan was coach, The best coaches and coordinators fit the scheme around the talent, Im glad that they have done that now, I hope it continues

#17 BLOODontheTRACKS

BLOODontheTRACKS
  • Member
  • 9001 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:58 PM

better offensive line play = better running back play

#18 GrizzColt

GrizzColt
  • Member
  • 1088 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:29 PM

DB has only played a few games this year; we have the easiest schedule we've had in 10 years; our Oline is a little better than it has been in a few years; and Luck is throwing the ball so much that defensive backs are not crowding the line....and now you guys are comparing Brown favorably to Arian Foster? You are the same guys who defend Brown in all of these Brown vs Ballard threads. I think you are going overboard. I mean I really wished Brown was that good, but I haven't personally seen it yet and I watch every game.

#19 SOMDColtsfan

SOMDColtsfan
  • Member
  • 645 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:53 PM

IMO, Donald Brown reminds me of former Vikings RB Robert Smith. Same build and running style. Watch some tape on Smith and tell me he dont!

#20 JWF

JWF
  • Member
  • 1050 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

IMO, Donald Brown reminds me of former Vikings RB Robert Smith. Same build and running style. Watch some tape on Smith and tell me he dont!


Good call.

Ive always thought his running style was familiar but I couldnt put my finger on it.

I think Brown is a quality RB. Hes not elite (obviously) but hes solid IMO. If the Oline can keep blocking like they have the past few games both him and Ballard will prove a solid duo.

#21 Mouthfire

Mouthfire
  • Member
  • 998 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:02 PM

DB has only played a few games this year; we have the easiest schedule we've had in 10 years; our Oline is a little better than it has been in a few years; and Luck is throwing the ball so much that defensive backs are not crowding the line....and now you guys are comparing Brown favorably to Arian Foster? You are the same guys who defend Brown in all of these Brown vs Ballard threads. I think you are going overboard. I mean I really wished Brown was that good, but I haven't personally seen it yet and I watch every game.


I'm comparing Brown to Foster because statistically, he performs like Foster when he gets good offensive line blocking, and he performs similarly to Brown when he doesn't get good blocking. The difference is, Brown gets hit in the backfield twice as much as Foster. If Foster were getting hit in the backfield as much as Donald was in the beginning of the year (35% instead of 20%) he'd average somewhere around 3.7 YPC, based on how he performs with good vs bad blocking.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:. Foster really isn't that good of a running back. He's fast, but he's not overly fast. He doesn't break a whole lot of tackles, doesnt run people over, doesn't pick up a lot of extra yards after contact, and he isn't particularly elusive. BUT... usually when he reaches the line of scrimmage, there aren't any defenders within miles of him. He often gets 5 yards past the LOS before anyone touches him. That's what having an elite offensive line does for you.

That's why when they stick in Ben Tate, you don't notice any difference at all. It's all the offensive line.

#22 Mouthfire

Mouthfire
  • Member
  • 998 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:03 PM

IMO, Donald Brown reminds me of former Vikings RB Robert Smith. Same build and running style. Watch some tape on Smith and tell me he dont!


Actually, that's a pretty good comparison.

#23 SOMDColtsfan

SOMDColtsfan
  • Member
  • 645 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:03 PM

Good call.

Ive always thought his running style was familiar but I couldnt put my finger on it.

I think Brown is a quality RB. Hes not elite (obviously) but hes solid IMO. If the Oline can keep blocking like they have the past few games both him and Ballard will prove a solid duo.

Thanks. It took me awhile to figure it out too. Kind of upright like Eric Dickerson but I knew I`d get blasted on here putting him in the same sentence with Dickerson and probable justly so, but Smith definitely so.

#24 GrizzColt

GrizzColt
  • Member
  • 1088 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:15 PM

Actually, that's a pretty good comparison.


Now, that I agree with.

#25 Superman

Superman
  • Forum Moderator
  • 14634 posts

Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:39 PM

I'm comparing Brown to Foster because statistically, he performs like Foster when he gets good offensive line blocking, and he performs similarly to Brown when he doesn't get good blocking. The difference is, Brown gets hit in the backfield twice as much as Foster. If Foster were getting hit in the backfield as much as Donald was in the beginning of the year (35% instead of 20%) he'd average somewhere around 3.7 YPC, based on how he performs with good vs bad blocking.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:. Foster really isn't that good of a running back. He's fast, but he's not overly fast. He doesn't break a whole lot of tackles, doesnt run people over, doesn't pick up a lot of extra yards after contact, and he isn't particularly elusive. BUT... usually when he reaches the line of scrimmage, there aren't any defenders within miles of him. He often gets 5 yards past the LOS before anyone touches him. That's what having an elite offensive line does for you.

That's why when they stick in Ben Tate, you don't notice any difference at all. It's all the offensive line.

I'm comparing Brown to Foster because statistically, he performs like Foster when he gets good offensive line blocking, and he performs similarly to Brown when he doesn't get good blocking. The difference is, Brown gets hit in the backfield twice as much as Foster. If Foster were getting hit in the backfield as much as Donald was in the beginning of the year (35% instead of 20%) he'd average somewhere around 3.7 YPC, based on how he performs with good vs bad blocking.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:. Foster really isn't that good of a running back. He's fast, but he's not overly fast. He doesn't break a whole lot of tackles, doesnt run people over, doesn't pick up a lot of extra yards after contact, and he isn't particularly elusive. BUT... usually when he reaches the line of scrimmage, there aren't any defenders within miles of him. He often gets 5 yards past the LOS before anyone touches him. That's what having an elite offensive line does for you.

That's why when they stick in Ben Tate, you don't notice any difference at all. It's all the offensive line.


What I like about Arian Foster is that, despite what you mention about his limited skill set (and all of that is why he wasn't drafted, and was cut by the Texans before getting called back), he has great vision and anticipation. It's true that the offensive line gives him a ton of help, and he wouldn't be as effective behind our line. But I think he'd be better, because part of the reason he doesn't get hit in the backfield as much as our backs do is that he anticipates well and reads where the hole is going to be. It's an intangible trait that doesn't show up in the numbers, but if you pay attention to the blocking and watch his use of his blockers, it's obvious. He also moves to and through the hole with great ease. He's not necessarily explosive, but he does finish well, and he runs through traffic well also.

I've watched college film of Vick Ballard and made comparisons to Arian Foster. Again, his physical characteristics aren't going to jump off the screen at you, nor are his measurables. But he seemed to have that ability to find the seam and then get through it, and he finished well. He hasn't been as good at doing that in the pros, which isn't surprising. He'll get there.
LET'S HUNT

#26 QwizBoy

QwizBoy
  • Member
  • 7191 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

I'm comparing Brown to Foster because statistically, he performs like Foster when he gets good offensive line blocking, and he performs similarly to Brown when he doesn't get good blocking. The difference is, Brown gets hit in the backfield twice as much as Foster. If Foster were getting hit in the backfield as much as Donald was in the beginning of the year (35% instead of 20%) he'd average somewhere around 3.7 YPC, based on how he performs with good vs bad blocking.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:. Foster really isn't that good of a running back. He's fast, but he's not overly fast. He doesn't break a whole lot of tackles, doesnt run people over, doesn't pick up a lot of extra yards after contact, and he isn't particularly elusive. BUT... usually when he reaches the line of scrimmage, there aren't any defenders within miles of him. He often gets 5 yards past the LOS before anyone touches him. That's what having an elite offensive line does for you.

That's why when they stick in Ben Tate, you don't notice any difference at all. It's all the offensive line.

...Have you watched a Texans game? Or are you going off of highlights? Foster has what many would call deceptive speed, which isn't a bad thing at all. I've seen him run players over on more than one occasion, but he is a smart back and by the time he meets a defender (after outrunning the others) he's already 7 or 8 yards down the field and knows that it would be in his and his team's best interests to get out of bounds. Like Supe said, he is a good traffic runner as well. He will stretch for the first down and has tremendous effort. There is a difference when Ben Tate is in...he and Foster are two different backs completely. Faulting Foster for having an o line is like faulting Brady for having the same. They are both good players, who happen to play on good teams.

Houston Texans, 2011, 2012 AFC South Champions

 

 


#27 RGIII

RGIII
  • Member
  • 1110 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 02:11 AM

I'm comparing Brown to Foster because statistically, he performs like Foster when he gets good offensive line blocking, and he performs similarly to Brown when he doesn't get good blocking. The difference is, Brown gets hit in the backfield twice as much as Foster. If Foster were getting hit in the backfield as much as Donald was in the beginning of the year (35% instead of 20%) he'd average somewhere around 3.7 YPC, based on how he performs with good vs bad blocking.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:. Foster really isn't that good of a running back. He's fast, but he's not overly fast. He doesn't break a whole lot of tackles, doesnt run people over, doesn't pick up a lot of extra yards after contact, and he isn't particularly elusive. BUT... usually when he reaches the line of scrimmage, there aren't any defenders within miles of him. He often gets 5 yards past the LOS before anyone touches him. That's what having an elite offensive line does for you.

That's why when they stick in Ben Tate, you don't notice any difference at all. It's all the offensive line.


That's an exceedingly poor comparison. When I watch Donald Brown I see a back who has good physical ability but rarely plays above the level of his blocking, which is a sign of a merely average runner. He's got good outside speed but he's not particularly shifty, he doesn't have very good vision, he's not a very physical runner who can churn out additional yardage after contact, he doesn't cut smoothly, and he seems to be naturally more comfortable running east-west than north-south. If you want to compare him to a Texans runner under Kubiak, he's much closer to Steve Slaton than he is Arian Foster. That doesn't mean he's bad or that he isn't significantly hurt by the blocking in front of him or the scheme (honestly, some of these plays Arians has drawn up have me scratching my head big time). He just doesn't have the same tools and wouldn't be anywhere remotely as good as Foster in a predominantly zone stretch scheme.

You're right about Foster not having many outstanding qualities. He's not a physically dominant back by any means but he has tremendous vision and he is a fair bit shiftier than he appears. Where Brown will sometimes make jarring, sudden stop-and-start cuts to change direction or freeze a guy, Foster will only make a subtle hesitation or sudden downhill cut that has essentially the same effect on defenders but doesn't cause him to lose momentum. That makes him much more consistent and much less likely to take a loss trying to make something happen when the blocking isn't perfect.

Terrell Davis wasn't known for having any single, outstanding quality (apart from, again, his vision), either. He was just well-rounded enough, fluid enough, and consistent enough to be wildly successful before his knees gave way. Did he have good blocking? Of course... but he made his line look good as much or more than his line made him look good.

#28 Gavin

Gavin
  • Member
  • 17043 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:47 AM

That's an exceedingly poor comparison. When I watch Donald Brown I see a back who has good physical ability but rarely plays above the level of his blocking, which is a sign of a merely average runner. He's got good outside speed but he's not particularly shifty, he doesn't have very good vision, he's not a very physical runner who can churn out additional yardage after contact, he doesn't cut smoothly, and he seems to be naturally more comfortable running east-west than north-south. If you want to compare him to a Texans runner under Kubiak, he's much closer to Steve Slaton than he is Arian Foster. That doesn't mean he's bad or that he isn't significantly hurt by the blocking in front of him or the scheme (honestly, some of these plays Arians has drawn up have me scratching my head big time). He just doesn't have the same tools and wouldn't be anywhere remotely as good as Foster in a predominantly zone stretch scheme.

You're right about Foster not having many outstanding qualities. He's not a physically dominant back by any means but he has tremendous vision and he is a fair bit shiftier than he appears. Where Brown will sometimes make jarring, sudden stop-and-start cuts to change direction or freeze a guy, Foster will only make a subtle hesitation or sudden downhill cut that has essentially the same effect on defenders but doesn't cause him to lose momentum. That makes him much more consistent and much less likely to take a loss trying to make something happen when the blocking isn't perfect.

Terrell Davis wasn't known for having any single, outstanding quality (apart from, again, his vision), either. He was just well-rounded enough, fluid enough, and consistent enough to be wildly successful before his knees gave way. Did he have good blocking? Of course... but he made his line look good as much or more than his line made him look good.

while I agree with some of what you say about Donalds lack of shiftiness 134 carries and 645 yards for 4.8 ypc last year on those carries under a Zone Blocking scheme would disagree that Brown would not be better for a Zone scheme and it is hard to have any vision when your O Linemen who have LOOKED more often then not to this point like they should not even be allowed to step foot on a football field let alone pretend to be O Linemen whiff on blocks (Im talking about you Olsen and Satele). I've said it several times put any running back not named Barry Sanders behind or O Line and they would not stand a chance and that includes Foster, as for Brown he is doing well considering the coaches have it in there heads that he cant carry the load which is another thing I disagree with that they have been doing, Brown is averaging 4.3 ypc which is pretty good in my opinion. I just think some people see the 319 yards and his size and dont take into consideration that he only has 74 carries the entire season, ya wanna see what Donald can do? get him some NFL quality starting O Linemen and not an entire right side of the Line made up of busts (yep I know they have been better the last two weeks marginally)

#29 throwing BBZ

throwing BBZ
  • Member
  • 3033 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:27 AM

Bunch of doodoo here talking up D Brown.
The guy has been pitifull reading his blocking. His success has been at running wide or hitting a gaping hole on occasion.
I have watched him crash up into his line for no gain with nice holes just to his side SO MANY times it Gags me. NO VISION.
And of course he couldn`t get on the field that much in prior seasons because he was Dangerously POOR at pass blocking.

I agree we haven`t had good run blocking since ?, as HOF pass yardage was demanded in the past.
Donald sat on the bench recently and watched two backs READ their blocking. It was a real pleasure seeing our backs do that.

He ran mostly straight ahead last game, little reading required, and we were getting good push and creating decent creases and one HUGE gap for him.
Our other two backs would have got those yards much the same. Brown is OK at best, and very replaceable IMO.

McGlynn was Excellent last game. NOTHING Marginal about it.

#30 Indyfan4life

Indyfan4life

    King Optimistic

  • Member
  • 1312 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:31 AM

Bunch of doodoo here talking up D Brown.
The guy has been pitifull reading his blocking. His success has been at running wide or hitting a gaping hole on occasion.
I have watched him crash up into his line for no gain with nice holes just to his side SO MANY times it Gags me. NO VISION.
And of course he couldn`t get on the field that much in prior seasons because he was Dangerously POOR at pass blocking.

I agree we haven`t had good run blocking since ?, as HOF pass yardage was demanded in the past.
Donald sat on the bench recently and watched two backs READ their blocking. It was a real pleasure seeing our backs do that.

He ran mostly straight ahead last game, little reading required, and we were getting good push and creating decent creases and one HUGE gap for him.
Our other two backs would have got those yards much the same. Brown is OK at best, and very replaceable IMO.

McGlynn was Excellent last game. NOTHING Marginal about it.


You said doodoo. Made me laugh pretty loud reading it.

#31 Gavin

Gavin
  • Member
  • 17043 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:35 AM

Bunch of doodoo here talking up D Brown.
The guy has been pitifull reading his blocking. His success has been at running wide or hitting a gaping hole on occasion.
I have watched him crash up into his line for no gain with nice holes just to his side SO MANY times it Gags me. NO VISION.
And of course he couldn`t get on the field that much in prior seasons because he was Dangerously POOR at pass blocking.

I agree we haven`t had good run blocking since ?, as HOF pass yardage was demanded in the past.
Donald sat on the bench recently and watched two backs READ their blocking. It was a real pleasure seeing our backs do that.

He ran mostly straight ahead last game, little reading required, and we were getting good push and creating decent creases and one HUGE gap for him.
Our other two backs would have got those yards much the same. Brown is OK at best, and very replaceable IMO.

McGlynn was Excellent last game. NOTHING Marginal about it.

What Backs did Donald sit on the bench and watch read there blocks? How is Brown not reading his blocks if he is getting 4.3 ypc? Surely you wont say Ballard and his 3.4 ypc is reading his blocks nor talking about his 1 long run of 26 yards on a whiffed tackle is reading blocks and if our other running backs would have gotten those yards just the same then why haven't they if like you say the blocks have been there?

#32 braveheartcolt

braveheartcolt
  • Member
  • 4251 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:44 AM

Bunch of doodoo here talking up D Brown.
The guy has been pitifull reading his blocking. His success has been at running wide or hitting a gaping hole on occasion.
I have watched him crash up into his line for no gain with nice holes just to his side SO MANY times it Gags me. NO VISION.
And of course he couldn`t get on the field that much in prior seasons because he was Dangerously POOR at pass blocking.

I agree we haven`t had good run blocking since ?, as HOF pass yardage was demanded in the past.
Donald sat on the bench recently and watched two backs READ their blocking. It was a real pleasure seeing our backs do that.

He ran mostly straight ahead last game, little reading required, and we were getting good push and creating decent creases and one HUGE gap for him.
Our other two backs would have got those yards much the same. Brown is OK at best, and very replaceable IMO.

McGlynn was Excellent last game. NOTHING Marginal about it.


On a pathetic passing team last year, DB had a better YPC average than Foster, Peterson, Rice and MJD. That is just how bad he is.
"If I make a comment and it is not backed up by factual evidence, take it as my opinion, and my opinion only"....

#33 The Peytonator

The Peytonator
  • Member
  • 2898 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:14 AM

Put it this way.....

Arian Foster with his pretty freakin' stout line and a lot of carries - 3.9 YPC

Don Brown with his extremely mediocre to less than average line with no continuity - 4.3 YPC

Brown's ability to make people miss, whether it's with a timely stiff arm or juking somebody out of their shoes is on an elite level.....that's right, I said elite. I used to bash the guy, and in the last couple years I have changed my opinion. Don't want to start crap with the board's Texan fans, but I'd take Brown over Foster every day of the week. Foster gets all the credit for getting a ton of carries and playing behind a really good oline.

#34 Mouthfire

Mouthfire
  • Member
  • 998 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:20 AM

What I like about Arian Foster is that, despite what you mention about his limited skill set (and all of that is why he wasn't drafted, and was cut by the Texans before getting called back), he has great vision and anticipation. It's true that the offensive line gives him a ton of help, and he wouldn't be as effective behind our line. But I think he'd be better, because part of the reason he doesn't get hit in the backfield as much as our backs do is that he anticipates well and reads where the hole is going to be. It's an intangible trait that doesn't show up in the numbers, but if you pay attention to the blocking and watch his use of his blockers, it's obvious. He also moves to and through the hole with great ease. He's not necessarily explosive, but he does finish well, and he runs through traffic well also.

I've watched college film of Vick Ballard and made comparisons to Arian Foster. Again, his physical characteristics aren't going to jump off the screen at you, nor are his measurables. But he seemed to have that ability to find the seam and then get through it, and he finished well. He hasn't been as good at doing that in the pros, which isn't surprising. He'll get there.


Not denying that. The thing about Foster is that he fits what the Texans want him to do, and he does it well. I just doubt he would be the league leading rusher without that offensive line.

#35 Mouthfire

Mouthfire
  • Member
  • 998 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:23 AM

...Have you watched a Texans game? Or are you going off of highlights? Foster has what many would call deceptive speed, which isn't a bad thing at all. I've seen him run players over on more than one occasion, but he is a smart back and by the time he meets a defender (after outrunning the others) he's already 7 or 8 yards down the field and knows that it would be in his and his team's best interests to get out of bounds. Like Supe said, he is a good traffic runner as well. He will stretch for the first down and has tremendous effort. There is a difference when Ben Tate is in...he and Foster are two different backs completely. Faulting Foster for having an o line is like faulting Brady for having the same. They are both good players, who happen to play on good teams.


I'm not going to fault Foster for that. Not in the least. I was just using him as an example of how critical it is to have a good offensive line. And he does benefit from a pretty tip-top offensive line.

And I live in Houston, btw ;-)

#36 Gavin

Gavin
  • Member
  • 17043 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:25 AM

Its MUCH easier to anticipate where the hole is going to be in Zone blocking anyway in my opinion vs Man Blocking where your counting on that man your running behind to open that hole

#37 Mouthfire

Mouthfire
  • Member
  • 998 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:04 AM

That's an exceedingly poor comparison. When I watch Donald Brown I see a back who has good physical ability but rarely plays above the level of his blocking, which is a sign of a merely average runner. He's got good outside speed but he's not particularly shifty, he doesn't have very good vision, he's not a very physical runner who can churn out additional yardage after contact, he doesn't cut smoothly, and he seems to be naturally more comfortable running east-west than north-south. If you want to compare him to a Texans runner under Kubiak, he's much closer to Steve Slaton than he is Arian Foster. That doesn't mean he's bad or that he isn't significantly hurt by the blocking in front of him or the scheme (honestly, some of these plays Arians has drawn up have me scratching my head big time). He just doesn't have the same tools and wouldn't be anywhere remotely as good as Foster in a predominantly zone stretch scheme.

You're right about Foster not having many outstanding qualities. He's not a physically dominant back by any means but he has tremendous vision and he is a fair bit shiftier than he appears. Where Brown will sometimes make jarring, sudden stop-and-start cuts to change direction or freeze a guy, Foster will only make a subtle hesitation or sudden downhill cut that has essentially the same effect on defenders but doesn't cause him to lose momentum. That makes him much more consistent and much less likely to take a loss trying to make something happen when the blocking isn't perfect.

Terrell Davis wasn't known for having any single, outstanding quality (apart from, again, his vision), either. He was just well-rounded enough, fluid enough, and consistent enough to be wildly successful before his knees gave way. Did he have good blocking? Of course... but he made his line look good as much or more than his line made him look good.


Here's where I'll disagree with you. If you've seen my ongoing statistical analysis, you'll see that when hit behind the LOS, Brown averages anywhere from -0.33 to +0.66 YPC, which is pretty good. That compares favorably to Adrian Peterson, for instance. But the surprising thing is that in that situation (ie with backfield penetration), Brown actually picks up an average of +3.0 yards after contact, which is ridiculously high. Vick Ballard, a powerback, averages an +1.6 extra yards. Arian Foster, another speed back, averages +0.25 extra yards after contact. If you watch the film closely, you'll see why: there are one or two runs every game where Donald Brown will turn a potential 2-3 yard loss, into a +3 yard gain.

Also, Brown got most of his yards last week running north-south: 9 carries for 46 yards (out of a total of 14 carries for 80 yards).

#38 QwizBoy

QwizBoy
  • Member
  • 7191 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:19 PM

Put it this way.....

Arian Foster with his pretty freakin' stout line and a lot of carries - 3.9 YPC

Don Brown with his extremely mediocre to less than average line with no continuity - 4.3 YPC

Brown's ability to make people miss, whether it's with a timely stiff arm or juking somebody out of their shoes is on an elite level.....that's right, I said elite. I used to bash the guy, and in the last couple years I have changed my opinion. Don't want to start crap with the board's Texan fans, but I'd take Brown over Foster every day of the week. Foster gets all the credit for getting a ton of carries and playing behind a really good oline.

You forget that the Texans run to set up the pass and pass to set up the run. That is one of the main reasons that Foster gets so many carries. In any case, we are one of the best play-action teams in the NFL, and that is in a large part due to both Foster and the offensive line. I'll take touchdowns and overall efficiency over YPC any day, but to each his own. I'm glad we are both happy with our backfield runners.

Houston Texans, 2011, 2012 AFC South Champions

 

 







COLTS TICKETS!

Single Game Tickets Available!

BUY THEM TODAY!
Join the Stampede!

Recent Status Updates

  • Photo
      24 Jul
    Bogie

    Edmond O'Brien - a decent actor that fell off my oldies radar. D.O.A. was pretty good for a public domain film. Thank you someone for the Internet Archive.

View All Updates