Manti Te'o

[NewColtsFan]

@NewColtsFan How is a draft trade not likely? We will most likely have a top 10 pick with Pagano having Leukemia now, I say we will have the 6th overall pick. Which we should trade down to about the 18th spot maybe even lower, depends how the rest of this college football season pans out, and get a top 3 DT prospect, I really like Star Lotuleli as a #1 pick for us, or even Johnathon Hankins and they should be available around pick 20. If we make a trade to move down from almost a top 5 pick, we will get quite a bit in return, most likely swap first round picks, maybe a round 2 and a round 3, anything is possible. I mean look how much the Rams got for the #2 pick, thats only going to be 3 or 4 spots above where we draft, I think we can get at least half of what the Skins gave up. I rather have Ballard start to see how well he does, but that is unlikely to happen

@Mouthfire ur comparing Brown to a guy who just tore his ACL last year, not the best choice because I would hope that Brown is getting similar stats to a runningback who is coming off surgery. We will see when draft time comes around, but after watching our drafts, and our history being draft a runningback every year, guess we will be drafting a runningback this year too. What are u guys going to say if we spend all of our picks on offensive line, don't get a DT, just all line, and Brown doesn't do anything still?? I rather draft a safety blanket for when that happens, right now I want us to start Vick Ballard for just 1 game, see how he does getting the load of the carries, we experimented with Carter last year, why not Ballard this year?

Sorry, Austin.... I wasn't clear enough...

Your proposed trade was to trade a #1 for a #1, a #2 and a #3. I don't think **that** trade is likely. I do think trading down during the draft is very likely. I've been a big proponent of that on the draft/free agent board for some time now...

But I think the chances of trading down far enough to get a 1, 2 and 3 are slim, and I think the chances of finding a team willing to give up a 1, 2 and 3 are also incredibly small.

So, to recap... yes to trading down.... not likely to the trade you propose... too pie in the sky to happen, IMO.

I realize that's not what you wanted to hear, and you may not agree, but that's my view.... hope this clarifies....

[NewColtsFan]

@NewColtsFan How is a draft trade not likely? We will most likely have a top 10 pick with Pagano having Leukemia now, I say we will have the 6th overall pick. Which we should trade down to about the 18th spot maybe even lower, depends how the rest of this college football season pans out, and get a top 3 DT prospect, I really like Star Lotuleli as a #1 pick for us, or even Johnathon Hankins and they should be available around pick 20. If we make a trade to move down from almost a top 5 pick, we will get quite a bit in return, most likely swap first round picks, maybe a round 2 and a round 3, anything is possible. I mean look how much the Rams got for the #2 pick, thats only going to be 3 or 4 spots above where we draft, I think we can get at least half of what the Skins gave up. I rather have Ballard start to see how well he does, but that is unlikely to happen

@Mouthfire ur comparing Brown to a guy who just tore his ACL last year, not the best choice because I would hope that Brown is getting similar stats to a runningback who is coming off surgery. We will see when draft time comes around, but after watching our drafts, and our history being draft a runningback every year, guess we will be drafting a runningback this year too. What are u guys going to say if we spend all of our picks on offensive line, don't get a DT, just all line, and Brown doesn't do anything still?? I rather draft a safety blanket for when that happens, right now I want us to start Vick Ballard for just 1 game, see how he does getting the load of the carries, we experimented with Carter last year, why not Ballard this year?

As for the three big NT's you like.... I like them too... but in today's modern NFL, a Nose Tackle is a devalued position... brings little pressure to the QB. And so I think you can typically find a solid NT in the later rounds. I don't want to spend a premium pick on a non-premium position.

We can fill that hole, but we don't need to spend a #1 or a #2 to do it.... it's part of the reason I ***love*** Chapman so much... we got a player who was likely a #2 or a #3 for the price of a #5. Smart drafting, which I appreciate.

Just my 2 cents....

[Austin1421]

@Gavin I believe we have 3 picks as of right now, and u guys are saying we need to draft both guards and a right tackle, so that would be all of our picks.

@NewColtsFan There are some GM's that would make that trade, Skins, Browns, Rams could even make it since they have all those picks. And I agree with Chapman, I thought he was a great pick for us, but I'm pretty sure Nose Tackle is one of the most important in a 3-4 scheme, just because for example right now, we are doing ok at stopping the run, well not against the Jags, but Bears and Vikings we looked a little better than previous years. If we get a nose tackle like the 3 I named to take up 2 offensive lineman or even get 1 on 1 blocking and he can over power the lineman to help stop the run, that will give our linebackers clear shots to make tackles for short gains/losses. Correct me if I'm wrong cause I didn't really keep up with other teams a few years ago, but wasn't Haloti Ngata a NT? He did pretty good for the Ravens, stopping the run, and applying pressure on the QB. Same with Haynesworth, before he became a lazy player.

[Freenyfan102]

I will take Manti Te' o over out linebackers anyday that kid has heart

[Mouthfire]

@Mouthfire ur comparing Brown to a guy who just tore his ACL last year, not the best choice because I would hope that Brown is getting similar stats to a runningback who is coming off surgery. We will see when draft time comes around, but after watching our drafts, and our history being draft a runningback every year, guess we will be drafting a runningback this year too. What are u guys going to say if we spend all of our picks on offensive line, don't get a DT, just all line, and Brown doesn't do anything still?? I rather draft a safety blanket for when that happens, right now I want us to start Vick Ballard for just 1 game, see how he does getting the load of the carries, we experimented with Carter last year, why not Ballard this year?

Well, first point: if the Colts keep picking RB's, and the result is always the same, then doesn't it stand to reason that the problem isn't the running back? It's not a big secret. National sportswriters (including our Indystar reporters) have been pointing out the massive problems with the run blocking all year.

I also take it you don't like the Adrian Peterson comparison. I'll point out that post-injury or not, he's still averaging 4.2 YPC, which is pretty good by any standards. And on a carry-to-carry basis (accounting for O line performance), Donald Brown is performing just about as well.

So how about we compare him to the current "bell cow" of the league: Arian Foster:

Arian Foster versus Tennessee Titans

1st Quarter

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +5 yd

Hit at +2 yd after LOS for +5 yd

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +3 yd

Hit at LOS for no gain

Hit at +1 yd after LOS for +3 yd

Hit at +4 yd after LOS for +6 yd

Hit at -1 yd before LOS for no gain

Hit at LOS for +3 yd

Hit at +5 yd after LOS for +7 yd

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +4 yd

2nd Quarter

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +7 yd

Hit at +5 yd after LOS for +5 yd

Hit at +2 yd after LOS for +3 yd

Hit at -3 yd before LOS for -3 yd

3rd Quarter

Hit at -1 yd before LOS for -1 yd

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +16 yd

Hit at +4 yd after LOS for +5 yd

4th Quarter

Hit at +1 yd after LOS for +1 yd

Hit at LOS for +3 yd

Hit at +3 yd after LOS for +3 yd

Hit at +5 yd after LOS for +8 yd

Hit at +1 yd after LOS for +2 yd

Hit at +2 yd after LOS for +2 yd

Hit at -1 yd before LOS for -1 yd

These are Arian's number when hit before and after the LOS:

Arian Foster when hit behind line of scrimmage: 4 rushes for -5 yards --> -1.25 YPC

Arian Foster when hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 20 rushes for 91 yards --> +4.55 YPC

________________________________________________

Here are Brown's numbers, for comparison

Donald Brown when hit behind line of scrimmage: 6 rushes for 2 yards --> +0.33 YPC

Donald Brown when hit at line of scrimmage or beyond: 10 rushes for 43 yards --> +4.33 YPC

________________________________________________

Again, not a whole lot of difference there between Donald Brown and the current league rushing champion. And Donald actually does better in minimizing damage when hit behind the LOS. So what is the real difference? Arian Foster is only hit behind the line of scrimmage 16% of the time. Compare this to Donald Brown being hit behind the LOS 35% of the time, which is more than twice as much.

To further the issue even more:

When Arian Foster is hit behind the LOS, he picks up an extra +0.25 yards after contact

When Arian Foster is hit at or after the LOS, he picks up an extra +2.05 yards after contact

For comparison:

When Donald Brown is hit behind the LOS, he picks up an extra +2.2 yards after contact

When Donald Brown is hit at or after the LOS, he picks up an extra +4.5 yards after contact

In this respect, Donald Brown actually outperforms Arian Foster in picking up extra yards.

________________________________________________

So, in summary, if you were to tell me that Donald performs pretty similarly to Arian Foster, but is better than Foster in picking up extra yards after contact, I'd say you have a pretty good back.

And if you told me that the only real difference between the two is that the offensive line allows Donald to be hit in the backfield twice as much as every other back in the league, I'd tell you that you'd better fix your friggin' offensive line.

[Austin1421]

@Mouthfire We don't even give the runningbacks we draft a chance... Did we give Mike Hart a chance? Not really, but he was actually OUTPERFORMING Brown in the 2010 season, his stats from the 2010 season are even better than Browns stats now and they have the same amount of carries and people were still complaining about our line play in 2010, so we still have the same issue, but Mike Hart (a 3rd string back) was outperforming our current starter. Javarrris James? (we didn't draft him) Had 6 TD's in 2010, Like 90% of his carries were in the redzone, so we had a terrible line, like we do now, and a runningback that was 4th string (I believe) had 6 TD's in the redzone which Donald Brown doesn't do with virtually the same terrible line that everyone is still complaining about, we didn't give him a chance in the open field, he had 46 total touches, and like I said they were almost all redzone, and he did pretty good in there, so he wasn't given a solid chance. We gave Carter a chance, but he had fumbling problems, (understandable that he isn't a starter) but if he fixes that, I like him as a runningback, he kind of reminds me of Brandon Jacobs when he runs.

We haven't given Ballard a chance we give him a carry here and there, but we haven't gave him a REAL chance. Out of Brown and Carter, Brown is better, Carter fumbles, doesn't really pick up pass blocks well either.

Out of Brown and Ballard couldn't tell u who is better until Ballard gets a legit shot. Brown is the only one who has gotten a chance to prove himself other than Carter. Out of all of those backs we have had, only 2 have had a legitimate opportunity.

So say we fix the offensive line problem in free agency and drafting, and skip out on Ball, now mind u that I said we should take Ball IF we make a trade to acquire those picks I said and not even with our top 2 picks. So u keep arguing with me all over a theoretical draft trade that might not even happen. but anyway say Brown ends up doing his usual 40 yards per game still? Then what we just say oh well guess we should've got a runningback somewhere, or we keep blaming the line?

[NewColtsFan]

@Gavin I believe we have 3 picks as of right now, and u guys are saying we need to draft both guards and a right tackle, so that would be all of our picks.

@NewColtsFan There are some GM's that would make that trade, Skins, Browns, Rams could even make it since they have all those picks. And I agree with Chapman, I thought he was a great pick for us, but I'm pretty sure Nose Tackle is one of the most important in a 3-4 scheme, just because for example right now, we are doing ok at stopping the run, well not against the Jags, but Bears and Vikings we looked a little better than previous years. If we get a nose tackle like the 3 I named to take up 2 offensive lineman or even get 1 on 1 blocking and he can over power the lineman to help stop the run, that will give our linebackers clear shots to make tackles for short gains/losses. Correct me if I'm wrong cause I didn't really keep up with other teams a few years ago, but wasn't Haloti Ngata a NT? He did pretty good for the Ravens, stopping the run, and applying pressure on the QB. Same with Haynesworth, before he became a lazy player.

As to the trade.... I don't think there's going to be a premium player that another team will be willing to trade up to get... and if there is, will he be around when we pick? So, the chances of a player generating that kind of interest in this coming draft are not very good. There's no Luck, no RG3 and no Trent Richardson this coming year. I don't see a team willing to pay that kind of price... And if there is, I'm not sure we want to trade down far enough to get that haul. We might have to trade down to 25-30 to get all that. Not sure that's what we want, that's a very big trade back. More than I'd like...

As to NT being important in a 3-4, agreed. But you don't have to fill it with a premium pick. Teams fill it with 3's and 4's, 5's and even lower all the time. As for Ngata, I call him an exception to the rule player. He was not picked to be an exclusive NT. He moves up and down the line playing all positions. His versatility makes him even more important. And I don't think any of the 3 NT's we've talked about are of a Ngata level, at least, not yet.

And even if they are, I still don't like using a premium pick on the position. There are other positions that I prefer to use a #1 and a #2 on..... same with ILB... don't like using a #1 on that spot either... Teo is an exception to the rule player. I think he's that good.

With a big NT or a quality ILB, I'm OK using a premium pick if they're close to the last piece of a puzzle. A player that might make a difference in the playoffs. But when it's early in the building process and we have so many needs at so many premium spots on the roster, then I'd rather not invest so heavily in a devalued spot.

Hope that clarifies.....

[Mouthfire]

@Mouthfire We don't even give the runningbacks we draft a chance... Did we give Mike Hart a chance? Not really, but he was actually OUTPERFORMING Brown in the 2010 season, his stats from the 2010 season are even better than Browns stats now and they have the same amount of carries and people were still complaining about our line play in 2010, so we still have the same issue, but Mike Hart (a 3rd string back) was outperforming our current starter. Javarrris James? (we didn't draft him) Had 6 TD's in 2010, Like 90% of his carries were in the redzone, so we had a terrible line, like we do now, and a runningback that was 4th string (I believe) had 6 TD's in the redzone which Donald Brown doesn't do with virtually the same terrible line that everyone is still complaining about, we didn't give him a chance in the open field, he had 46 total touches, and like I said they were almost all redzone, and he did pretty good in there, so he wasn't given a solid chance. We gave Carter a chance, but he had fumbling problems, (understandable that he isn't a starter) but if he fixes that, I like him as a runningback, he kind of reminds me of Brandon Jacobs when he runs.

We haven't given Ballard a chance we give him a carry here and there, but we haven't gave him a REAL chance. Out of Brown and Carter, Brown is better, Carter fumbles, doesn't really pick up pass blocks well either.

Out of Brown and Ballard couldn't tell u who is better until Ballard gets a legit shot. Brown is the only one who has gotten a chance to prove himself other than Carter. Out of all of those backs we have had, only 2 have had a legitimate opportunity.

So say we fix the offensive line problem in free agency and drafting, and skip out on Ball, now mind u that I said we should take Ball IF we make a trade to acquire those picks I said and not even with our top 2 picks. So u keep arguing with me all over a theoretical draft trade that might not even happen. but anyway say Brown ends up doing his usual 40 yards per game still? Then what we just say oh well guess we should've got a runningback somewhere, or we keep blaming the line?

Guy, the numbers don't lie. When Brown gets the same room to run as other backs in the league, he does just as well. The problem is that he doesn't consistently get the same level of run blocking.

I didn't get to do the same analysis with Mike Hart, but I seem to remember he didn't do so well and was eventually let go. Is it a wonder that nobody picked him up? I actually did do the analysis on Ballard, who did get a fair amount of carries the 3rd week. He was hit behind the backfield at the same rate (~35-40%) and he performed just slightly worse than Brown on YPC. So again, everything really points to the offensive line being the problem.

You can say "40 yards per game" (which is really an exaggeration), but without pointing out why the numbers are low, that's really flawed and faulty reasoning.

[Austin1421]

@Mouthfire Hart didn't do so well but outperformed Brown? So if Hart didn't do so well but he outperformed Brown, that means Brown isn't that good either, if u say that Hart wasn't good. And um... Brown has 155 yards, that would be about 52 yards a game not that big of an exaggeration. And we play the Packers this week, and Brown won't exactly be racking up the yards, so then his 52 yards a game will go down closer to 40, and just keep getting closer and closer.

[Mouthfire]

@Mouthfire Hart didn't do so well but outperformed Brown? So if Hart didn't do so well but he outperformed Brown, that means Brown isn't that good either, if u say that Hart wasn't good. And um... Brown has 155 yards, that would be about 52 yards a game not that big of an exaggeration. And we play the Packers this week, and Brown won't exactly be racking up the yards, so then his 52 yards a game will go down closer to 40, and just keep getting closer and closer.

Hmmmm... okay, If yards per game is your absolute yardstick, then in Mike Hart's best year (2010) he rushed for 185 yards in 7 games, or 26 yards per game.

That doesn't sound so impressive.

[Austin1421(2)]

For a 3rd string runningback?!?! Who only got what 40 carries?!?! Are u kidding me?? Pretty sure 185 yards is good for someone who was fighting for 3rd string on the depth chart, overall he did better than Brown who ur saying is so good. So if ur going to say Hart sucked then might as well say Brown sucks too

[Hans Moleman]

I didn't read the whole Brown debate, but as it relates to Teo.....

Our ILB's are playing pretty good ball. Not great, but we're good there.

You don't settle for good if someone can upgrade your unit to great. Maybe it's homer bias on my part, but I genuinely believe Teo is the next great NFL linebacker. You think Pagano isn't drooling over the prospect of adding his own version of Ray Lewis to Indy (not saying Manti's Ray Lewis good, but the point's the same) for our D to build around? If Teo's the best guy available, what we have at ILB isn't good enough to keep us from picking him.

If Manti's not the best available, I'll be psyched if we land anyone that grades out higher.

[coltsguy510]

I didn't read the whole Brown debate, but as it relates to Teo.....

Our ILB's are playing pretty good ball. Not great, but we're good there.

You don't settle for good if someone can upgrade your unit to great. Maybe it's homer bias on my part, but I genuinely believe Teo is the next great NFL linebacker. You think Pagano isn't drooling over the prospect of adding his own version of Ray Lewis to Indy (not saying Manti's Ray Lewis good, but the point's the same) for our D to build around? If Teo's the best guy available, what we have at ILB isn't good enough to keep us from picking him.

If Manti's not the best available, I'll be psyched if we land anyone that grades out higher.

He's definitely a leader.

[Mouthfire]

For a 3rd string runningback?!?! Who only got what 40 carries?!?! Are u kidding me?? Pretty sure 185 yards is good for someone who was fighting for 3rd string on the depth chart, overall he did better than Brown who ur saying is so good. So if ur going to say Hart sucked then might as well say Brown sucks too

Uh, no. 185 yards rushing for a year is pretty bad for anyone.

And about only getting 40 carries: I could say the same thing for Donald Brown. In 2011, he only averaged about 8 carries per game. Is that his fault the coaches didnt give him the ball more? If he had the standard 20 carries per game, he would've averaged about 95 yards per game and about 1520 yards And 12 TDs for the season.

That doesn't sound too bad, does it?

[Gavin]

@Mouthfire Hart didn't do so well but outperformed Brown? So if Hart didn't do so well but he outperformed Brown, that means Brown isn't that good either, if u say that Hart wasn't good. And um... Brown has 155 yards, that would be about 52 yards a game not that big of an exaggeration. And we play the Packers this week, and Brown won't exactly be racking up the yards, so then his 52 yards a game will go down closer to 40, and just keep getting closer and closer.

Hart ran for 30 more yards on the same number of carries in 2010, I was very disappointed to see Hart go and dont understand why we let him go to this day with that said give Brown a full season with the majority of the carries and more carries per game then what he is getting now which is not much once you take it account how much we have been slinging the ball around then I bet you change your mind about his abilities

[Austin1421(2)]

@Mouthfire For a 3rd string runningback thats bad, really, wth is ur idea of good for a 3rd string back then 600 yards? Well we should definitely cut Brown then if thats the case because Brown gets around the same amount of rush yards. A 3rd string runningback who didn't see much time, because Brown and Addai split time, which Brown only had 38 yards a game compared to a 3rd stringer who had only 12 less, who played in less games, less carries, better YPC, whatever, just whatever, clearly Hart, A 3RD STRING BACK, was on track to do just as well, if not better than Brown, and Brown can't even match Harts stats now. With ur reasoning about 3rd string runningbacks getting 185 yards is terrible, then there will be a ton of free agents, cause some 2nd string backs don't even get that.

[Mouthfire]

@Mouthfire For a 3rd string runningback thats bad, really, wth is ur idea of good for a 3rd string back then 600 yards? Well we should definitely cut Brown then if thats the case because Brown gets around the same amount of rush yards. A 3rd string runningback who didn't see much time, because Brown and Addai split time, which Brown only had 38 yards a game compared to a 3rd stringer who had only 12 less, who played in less games, less carries, better YPC, whatever, just whatever, clearly Hart, A 3RD STRING BACK, was on track to do just as well, if not better than Brown, and Brown can't even match Harts stats now. With ur reasoning about 3rd string runningbacks getting 185 yards is terrible, then there will be a ton of free agents, cause some 2nd string backs don't even get that.

Well, I'm just going by your criteria. If yards per game is your absolute criteria, then Hart was a terrible back. If yards per carry is your criteria, then Brown is a 1500 yd 12 TD per season back.

Really, though, my point is this: absolute numbers without any context is completely meaningless. And I think I'll just leave it at that.

[Austin1421(2)]

Uh, no. 185 yards rushing for a year is pretty bad for anyone.

And about only getting 40 carries: I could say the same thing for Donald Brown. In 2011, he only averaged about 8 carries per game. Is that his fault the coaches didnt give him the ball more? If he had the standard 20 carries per game, he would've averaged about 95 yards per game and about 1520 yards And 12 TDs for the season.

That doesn't sound too bad, does it?

Joesph Addai was our starter, Brown just split carries with him, and Brown took over after Addai's injuries. And even if he got the league average carries u think Brown would've done just as good as MJD, and McCoy? Really, now who is over exaggerating? What ur saying is with 160 more carries, Brown would've had more yards and the exact same number of TD's as Ray Rice, sorry but no, Brown doesn't even compare to them.

What I was getting at was if Brown and Hart split carries instead of Addai, and Brown, Hart would've had a better season, based off his play.

How is giving Browns fricken stats for this year about where he is heading for his yards per game my big criteria?? Really just stop replying to me please, ur not getting anything I'm saying obviously and now ur putting words in my mouth. It's all important, YPG, YPC, fumbles, it all deals with rushing does it not? Isn't that what we are talking about? Rushing, ok then, so giving one simple stat about where Brown is heading, doesn't mean thats my criteria, it's all criteria. Hart had better YPC in 2010, and only had about 12 less yards per game.

[coltsguy510]

Who gives a crap already!!!!!! Mods, can you delete all post's involving Brown?

[Austin1421(2)]

@Gavin I don't think Brown has bad abilities, I said he is a decent back, but I would like a back with more talent. I said I like Brown in some areas, mainly his ability to pick up pass rushers, he runs good screen pass plays too, so far every time he gets a catch behind the line he turns it into a good play,but thats only when he catches the ball, he drops wide open passes, and he is playing on a pass first team, u can't have that in our type of offense.

[coltsguy510]

@Gavin I don't think Brown has bad abilities, I said he is a decent back, but I would like a back with more talent. I said I like Brown in some areas, mainly his ability to pick up pass rushers, he runs good screen pass plays too, so far every time he gets a catch behind the line he turns it into a good play,but thats only when he catches the ball, he drops wide open passes, and he is playing on a pass first team, u can't have that in our type of offense.

Who gives a crap!!!!

[Austin1421(2)]

Who gives a crap!!!!

First, off I was already typing that message before u said who gives a crap, drop it already, or whatever u said. in the previous post

Second, obviously everyone, including u, who kept responding gives a crap.

Third, if someone quotes me and is talking to me, I'm going to respond

[coltsguy510]

First, off I was already typing that message before u said who gives a crap, drop it already, or whatever u said. in the previous post

Second, obviously everyone, including u, who kept responding gives a crap.

Third, if someone quotes me and is talking to me, I'm going to respond

I responded like twice. Honestly bro, if you want people to respect you on this board you can't start it out arguing with 5 different members. Well respected and known members at that. You are obviously wrong. You can go on the main board and post about how bad Brown is and you will be bombarded.

[Mouthfire]

Joesph Addai was our starter, Brown just split carries with him, and Brown took over after Addai's injuries. And even if he got the league average carries u think Brown would've done just as good as MJD, and McCoy? Really, now who is over exaggerating? What ur saying is with 160 more carries, Brown would've had more yards and the exact same number of TD's as Ray Rice, sorry but no, Brown doesn't even compare to them.

Hi Austin1401,

Do the math (because I did).

In 2011, DB had 134 attempts over 16 games, or about 8 carries per game.

Given 8 carries per game, he had 645 total yards and 5 TDs.

If you double that to 16 carries per game, that would give you 1290 yards and 10 TDs

Just a little more than that (20 carries per game) would give you 1520 yards and 12 TDs

[Austin1421(2)]

First off, i didn't start the argument. Second off i looked at other posts about brown and u saying I'll be bombarded is ridiculous I've seen about 12 people who says the same thing as me which is brown is ok, but he is not starting material. Third I'm wrong on an opinion ok whatever then. Fourth u don't have to worry about me starting off in this forum badly cause this is the last time I'll get on here. I'm not dealing with this everyday. Fifth Mouthfire what part of please quit replying to me aren't u understanding? I really don't care anymore. I don't care about ur projections about Browns stats.

[Gavin]

I will say this, Brown has missed some big holes (for instance at the 2:05 mark of the first quarter of the Jags game, The play was set to be a run to the left which is where Donald ran, he gained 3 yards out of not much room made by the O Line but there was a huge hole opened up if he would have cut back far right, No question he misses an extremely occasional big hole but as far as where the run play is supposed to go there have been very few instances where there has been a hole and even then Brown has made something out of nothing more often then not as shown by his ypc, Would I say he needs to work on his patience for a hole to open? based on that play yes BUT it has been well shown now if he hesitates and looks for a hole then its to late and he would be hit in the backfield because our O Line just is not good enough to sustain blocks do to various reasons

[Freenyfan102]

We dont need another STUPIED RB had there frontal lobs removed.

[Moncrief]

This thread is making me smh. How do we go from talking about Manti Te'o to an argument about ypc

[Gavin]

This thread is making me smh. How do we go from talking about Manti Te'o to an argument about ypc

[weslo1812]

It was Quite entertaining reading the Donald brown Debate!

[PrincetonTiger]

not needed

[Tree]

I think its laughable when some say our O Line is terrible and then turn right around and say our running backs are terrible to especially when our starting running back ran for 2083 yards his senior year in college on 367 carries (5.7 ypc) he also had 5.4 ypc in 3 years

In some peoples' defense, he wasn't exactly racking up 2000 yards at Alabama or LSU. But he's a better back than many starters in the league, he just has no blocking. Great person, above average player, and weak run blocking.

[Coltivated]

I would take the best defensive play maker available minus corner. Preferably a pass rusher of sorts this would take a lot of pressure of our backfield. Werner FSU-DE, Reid LSU-FS, Ideally star lotulelie Utah-NT he could play defensive end for us if chapman pans out or nose if he doesn't. I doubt the other top prospects fall to us.

[krunk]

By the way having far less carries, should mean that Brown should have way better YPC numbers than Richardson, which he is only up by .1, so if ur arguing saying Brown is as good as Richardson, that argument is way off compared to the stats u just gave. What ur stats show is that Brown is almost half as good as Richardson, half as good as a ROOKIE? Even worse, a ROOKIE with a WORSE O-LINE than us?? I mean if that's what u want on our team then ok, but I for one do not want that.

Does anybody know if Tyrann Mathieu is still eligible for the draft, even after being kicked off the team? If so is he entering or finishing his degree?

I think he is coming back next year to play college football.

[Captain Americolt]

No way, we have Connor, Angerer, Freeney, Mathis, and the emerging Freeman and maybe even Hughes for linebackers right now, we are set there. The guy is good, but he is not a need, we need a DT, a run stopping DT, think about this, we face MJD, Foster, and Chris Johnson for 6 games. Now Johnson isn't performing well, but he still picks of quite a bit of yards against us, he sucks the whole year, but breaks out against us. If we draft a DT with our first round pick, or even trade down to get the #1 Dt prospect I would love it. Star Lotulelei, for god sake, the guys first name is STAR, that says it all lol. Johnathon Hankins, John Jenkins. We need one of these guys.

For our 2nd round pick (I think we traded this pick away to get Davis, but hopefully we can get a pick in a trade) Maybe trade our 1st round pick and get a later first round pick, a 2nd round pick, and a 3rd round pick, we need help on the O-Line, I'm thinking the best available offensive guard, our Tackles aren't looking too bad, it's our guards that our breaking the chain, we need good guards so we can run the ball.

For our 2 3rd round picks (If we make the trade)- Montee Ball. I hate Donald Brown, he drops open passes, and he isn't a good back, I'm hoping Montee Ball drops to the 3rd round and we swoop him up, all of these picks are very possible, I have a feeling teams will be focusing on defense big time for the first 2 rounds, which means, players like Ball, and receiver Justin Hunter will fall in draft stock. For our other 3rd round pick IF we make a trade- If what I predict is right about teams focusing on defense, then we should be able to to take Justin Hunter, Terrance Williams, or DeAndre Hopkins.

With these picks we have a TEAM. The other picks we have I'll leave that to Grigson and the others. But this is what we should do in the first 3 rounds. We get our DT, an O-line, RB, and a Receiver to complement Wayne and Avery since Collie's career is pretty much over. Which will also spread the field out for Fleener and Dwayne Allen.

How did your predictions unfold? Hunter and Williams could(should) be 1st round picks. They won't last long if they fall into the 2nd round.

[weslo1812]

@Mouthfire We don't even give the runningbacks we draft a chance... Did we give Mike Hart a chance? Not really, but he was actually OUTPERFORMING Brown in the 2010 season, his stats from the 2010 season are even better than Browns stats now and they have the same amount of carries and people were still complaining about our line play in 2010, so we still have the same issue, but Mike Hart (a 3rd string back) was outperforming our current starter. Javarrris James? (we didn't draft him) Had 6 TD's in 2010, Like 90% of his carries were in the redzone, so we had a terrible line, like we do now, and a runningback that was 4th string (I believe) had 6 TD's in the redzone which Donald Brown doesn't do with virtually the same terrible line that everyone is still complaining about, we didn't give him a chance in the open field, he had 46 total touches, and like I said they were almost all redzone, and he did pretty good in there, so he wasn't given a solid chance. We gave Carter a chance, but he had fumbling problems, (understandable that he isn't a starter) but if he fixes that, I like him as a runningback, he kind of reminds me of Brandon Jacobs when he runs.

We haven't given Ballard a chance we give him a carry here and there, but we haven't gave him a REAL chance. Out of Brown and Carter, Brown is better, Carter fumbles, doesn't really pick up pass blocks well either.

Out of Brown and Ballard couldn't tell u who is better until Ballard gets a legit shot. Brown is the only one who has gotten a chance to prove himself other than Carter. Out of all of those backs we have had, only 2 have had a legitimate opportunity.

So say we fix the offensive line problem in free agency and drafting, and skip out on Ball, now mind u that I said we should take Ball IF we make a trade to acquire those picks I said and not even with our top 2 picks. So u keep arguing with me all over a theoretical draft trade that might not even happen. but anyway say Brown ends up doing his usual 40 yards per game still? Then what we just say oh well guess we should've got a runningback somewhere, or we keep blaming the line?

My qustion to you Austin is, Say we get Ball like you want and were still expirencing the same problems even after we twak the offensive line in the off season. Would that then make Ball a bad back or not a good back? Becuase the offensive line cant block and stop penatration which kills plays in the backfield. I mean where does a good run game start? We all should know this answer, the OFFENSIVE LINE and really thats where everything starts. Yes you need to have a back that can run and has good vision, speed and power but If he can barley even get a start most ofthe time then it really does not matter what he may be capable of. The bigger problem between these two is the Offensive line beyond a shaddow of a doubt. All you have to do is watch and see the train wreck that happens 65% we run the ball. Its horrid. Yes browns pats around a little too much at times and has some drop but hes also had some nice plays too. He really has not been able to fully showcase himself due to the lack of blocking.

[Coltivated]

There are only two dt I would take hankins then star we won't be in a position to get then if teo is there we should definitely pick him...Bucky Brooks stated he believes he is the best defensive player in college and it's not even close in his mind. Potential Jr seau we could look back and wish we would have. IMO he could be a future hall of famer. Even read an article stating he could even play outside linebacker if necessary obviously better inside tho.

[manning2dallas]

remember when I said Manti Teo is going to be better than Pat Willis at the beginning of the year and everyone laughed at me? who's laughin now?

[BOTT]

remember when I said Manti Teo is going to be better than Pat Willis at the beginning of the year and everyone laughed at me? who's laughin now?

the same people

[NewColtsFan]

remember when I said Manti Teo is going to be better than Pat Willis at the beginning of the year and everyone laughed at me? who's laughin now?

 

 

Until Teo gets to the NFL and performs like Willis...   you don't have the argument you think you do.

 

At least,   not yet.