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The Grey Hoodie, Bill Belichick, And "The Patriot Way"...


southwest1

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nice thoughts BABronco . . . it is always tough to say . . . is it the coach, the players, or a combo of the two . . I go with the later . .. . every great Coach has a great QB and vice versa . . . its kind of like the chicken and the egg, which came first (chicken/egg), who is better (coach/QB/team) . . . I do think BB get a little too much credit for what he does and it can overshadow some views of Brady and other players . . . I think the only way you can compare is the compare the coaches who coach similarly talented team . . . i know this is tough to do as coache do play a part in their own team's succes, but for instance one might under value BB performance in Cleveland (lesser talent than NE) and overrate him in NE . . . . a good comparision would be to compary BB in NE with coaches in Indy, Dallas, GB, etc . . . teams that for the most part are equally level talent . . .

I do think that BB is one of the best coaches in this league . . . and yes he was lucky to get Brady late in the draft . . . but for what it is worth he did keep Brady on the roster in 2000, his rookie year, we had 4 QBs on the roster with Brady making the 4th . . . carriing 4 QBs was kind of unheard of, but BB wanted to keep TB . .. then the following year TB shot up to #2 and BB later said that he had plans to incorporate TB into the roster during the year, and this is with a franchise QB that just singed a long term deal, Bledsoe . . . sadly he got injured and TB got his chance without BB having to make the call, but he did make the call later in the season and kept TB in the starting lineup . . . losing ur spot to injury is rare too . . . so bottom line BB was lucky, but was the one that made the decision to keep TB on and put him in place of a franchise QB . . .so altho he got lucky he did make a key decision later . . .

but all in all i kind of agree with you, people are smart and when given the opportunity can achieve great things and at times be given more credit then they may inherently and intrinsicly deserve . . .

Thanks for your thoughts, Yehoodi. All good points. I didn't know that he carried 4QBs on the roster. Great move! You have to be more than lucky. I think there are a lot of elements for success, and it's impossible to tear one factor away from the rest. And luck is just one part of it.

The only SB team I'm intimately familiar with is the 1998/9 Broncos. That team had a great offense and shaky defense (but they could stop the run). Two years before SB32, Terrell Davis got his roster spot on the basis of one really hard hit in a special team play in Tokyo that impressed the coaches. Otherwise, who knows if he would have stuck? We were lucky with him. But Terrell's success also heavily dependent on the O line with Alex Gibbs' zone blocking (dare I say cut blocking) system, and an unheralded FB Howard Griffith. There were too many tough, unselfish players with good character to count. We also got lucky in SB 33 with the Eugene Robinson fiasco, which I'm sure affected the Falcons, not that I think the Broncos would have lost to them.

It's been interesting to see the awakening of the Niners under Jim Harbaugh. Last year's Niners was basically the same team as the one that thoroughly underperformed in Mike Singletary's reign. One year is too small a sample size but nobody thought they would win 13 games. I also marvel at what he had accomplished at Stanford. This is a school where you can keep your job forever if you maintain near .500 record. He succeeded the tough task of making Stanford a prominent football team.

And what about the roles owners/organizations play? Are overbearing owners like Jerry Jones and Al DAvis and Dan Snyder ruining it all for their teams? NE seems to be a good organization.

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Now i ask you hawkeyes, would you please enlighten us on what you think in a good end point for the foward pass to stop and why? . . .and when you do provide that end point please add the pluses and minuses associated with that end point and with its relations to the present end point established by the NFL . . . take as much time as you need . . . thank you . . .

My round about point was that a lot of rules are comprised of a whole lot of "subjectivity" .... much like the Green Bay / Seattle play ... IMO both plays / calls are very similar in many ways and neither had anything to do with regular or replacement.

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I just had an intriguing e-mail from a close friend on mine on here about which team or teams deserves to be acknowledged as the best franchise in the NFL at this very moment. Here is a portion of my response to him below:

" I may not be proficient in playbooks or formation and scheme mastery, but I do understand the significance of this game on a visceral, intuitive, instinctual, and emotional level.

I also concur with you that the "America's Team" designation is dominated right now by the Patriots in the aftermath of September 11, 2001, but the Indianapolis Colts, NY Giants, and Houston Texans are right on the heels of acquiring a piece of that illustrious title given their Playoff clutchess on the field of play in recent years.

Genius never comes with an expiration date and great coaches like Bill Belichick are only as good as the quality of players he has to instruct on the practice field and their capacity to quickly comprehend and accurately interpret situations he presents them with on a daily basis."

The NFL is very cyclical. No team stays at the top of the mountain forever. Some upstart, young squad always wants to assassinate the Championship king and coronate or appoint themselves the new NFL royalty. That's what makes the NFL a landmark sport of surprise and serendipity to me.

"The fear of the unknown makes cowards of us all." Who has the courage to embrace ruling this NFL kingdom with 32 precincts surrounding it 1 season at a time? Let the sweat, collisions, and sparing begin anew every September, when to use the late comedian George Carlin's words, "everything is dying." It's not always fun being king and trying to retain their shimmering crown.

Cue Vincent Price's evil cackle please...

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What an unlikely place to find such a glorious tribute to my favorite team. From a Patriots fan to a Colts fan, I thank you southwest1, well done!

Thanks Flying Elvis. Or should I say "Thank you. Thank very much" in Elvis Presley's signature voice. Do I at least get a complementary peanut butter and banana sandwich as a reward? haha

I feel sorry for WR Wes Welker though. Tom Brady's #1 security blanket whenever he's in trouble and desperately needs a 1st down. I don't wanna see Wes leave/get released from NE next year. He deserves a ring IMO. The man is tough as nails, has more than proven his value in Foxboro, and he deserves to retire in NE on top.

http://youtu.be/u1maGiLg3ak

http://youtu.be/dskVNbXSvek

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And what about the roles owners/organizations play? Are overbearing owners like Jerry Jones and Al DAvis and Dan Snyder ruining it all for their teams? NE seems to be a good organization.

NE isn't just good; they are exceptional. I always remember what Tedy Bruschi said, "Owners own, players play, and they don't interfere with coaching." The best owners trust their staff on the field and stay the bleep out of the way. If they have a concern they address it privately behind closed doors. No media, no spotlight, no cameras. I wish Jerry Jones would learn that vital lesson, but then again his ego is bigger than the billion dollar playpen his Dallas Cowboys play ball in.

Dallas just disgusts me personally. Their whole approach to winning is the exact opposite of the "Patriot Way" arrogance, false pride, living off previous Championships, and a overbearing sense of entitlement. 1996 was your last Lombardi Trophy Jerry...Ancient history. Grow up sir. Thank you.

The Patriots always start over from scratch, take nothing for granted, and work their tails off. That's why they are an elite franchise: Hard work, class, and longevity.

My Colts will climb the mountain again because we preach what NE preaches: Do your job, no excuses, fundamental execution, never give up, and patience.

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I might take some heat for this: But, I put little to no stock in the Spy Gate scandal. I'm not exonerating Bill Belichick of complete and total guilt because Roger Goodell wouldn't have fined him for an NFL violation if he was innocent of all rule infractions. But, when people say that all of Bill's success is directly linked to illegal espionage and eavesdropping other squad's signals, that conjecture is a bunch of foolishness IMO.

http://www.boston.co...extras/spygate/

http://www.boston.co...ni_regrets.html

Bill's brilliance is demonstrated in getting to the SB in 2012 and Spy Gate exploded in 2007/2008. The man knows how to win in the NFL and his role in obtaining 3 Championships was legitimate. Heck, Bill and Brady could very well win a 4th Lombardi trophy at the end of this season in February. Spy Gate is dead and Bill's brilliance in the NFL remains firm and intact to me anyway. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Speaking of Spy Gate, I have a question for Flying Elvis, VL, GoPats, and Yehoodi, all my NE friends on here, is Eric Mangini hated in the greater Boston area for betraying the "Patriot code of the locker room?"

If Eric walked into a popular Boston sports bar, would he be heckled, thrown out, and tarred and feathered? Or would he be hugged and cheered for the 3 Championships he helped NE win?

I would love to hear my buddies from Boston respond to this question. Any Patriots fan on here, please feel free to chime in with your perspective. I want an honest answer here. This is a retaliation free zone. How do each of you view Eric personally and why? Are you disappointed, angry, or indifferent about what Eric did? Has Eric permanently burned a bridge with Bill that won't ever be mended or can their friendship be fixed eventually? I'm curious. I will respect all opinions and hear everyone freely out. Thank you.

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NE isn't just good; they are exceptional. I always remember what Tedy Bruschi said, "Owners own, players play, and they don't interfere with coaching." The best owners trust their staff on the field and stay the bleep out of the way. If they have a concern they address it privately behind closed doors. No media, no spotlight, no cameras. I wish Jerry Jones would learn that vital lesson, but then again his ego is bigger than the billion dollar playpen his Dallas Cowboys play ball in.

Dallas just disgusts me personally. Their whole approach to winning is the exact opposite of the "Patriot Way" arrogance, false pride, living off previous Championships, and a overbearing sense of entitlement. 1996 was your last Lombardi Trophy Jerry...Ancient history. Grow up sir. Thank you.

The Patriots always start over from scratch, take nothing for granted, and work their tails off. That's why they are an elite franchise: Hard work, class, and longevity.

My Colts will climb the mountain again because we preach what NE preaches: Do your job, no excuses, fundamental execution, never give up, and patience.

Hey SW,

Thanks for your thoughts. You sound like NE is your team :D But seriously, you are making me wonder if i need to recalibrate my Belichick haterism. I read in NY times that Bob Kraft John Mara were worried about the damage to the league by the scab-ball and the focus on it while the Panthers’ Jerry Richardson and the Jets’ Woody Johnson were hardliners. Bob Kraft gets my props.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/sports/football/rushing-to-get-nfls-regular-referees-back-on-field.html?_r=0

We share your Jerry Jones disgust in our household. Now that Al is dead, I might even root for the Raiders when they play Dallas. But even he cannot be worse than Dan Snyder. He seems to be a horrible human being from what I've read especially here. Have you seen this? It's actually hilarious.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/40063/the-cranky-redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder/

There are so many things that made me laugh/angry, but this has to be the worst one:

Pentagon Flag Hat: A Redskins cap sold for profit by Snyder to “commemorate September 11” in time for the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Ads boasted that the $23.99 caps, really just black Redskins hats with a red, white, and blue Pentagon sewn on the side, were “expected to be worn by the Redskins coaches.” No other NFL team put 9/11 commemorative products for sale during the 2006 season, for profit or otherwise. Snyder had previously added a $4 “security surcharge” to the ticket prices soon after the attacks.

I'm glad Pat Bowlen is not like that. Other than his full-length fur coat, I'm mostly in his corner. And my appreciation for Jim Irsay is growing.

Anyway, I digress...

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Speaking of Spy Gate, I have a question for Flying Elvis, VL, GoPats, and Yehoodi, all my NE friends on here, is Eric Mangini hated in the greater Boston area for betraying the "Patriot code of the locker room?"

If Eric walked into a popular Boston sports bar, would he be heckled, thrown out, and tarred and feathered? Or would he be hugged and cheered for the 3 Championships he helped NE win?

I would love to hear my buddies from Boston respond to this question. Any Patriots fan on here, please feel free to chime in with your perspective. I want an honest answer here. This is a retaliation free zone. How do each of you view Eric personally and why? Are you disappointed, angry, or indifferent about what Eric did? Has Eric permanently burned a bridge with Bill that won't ever be mended or can their friendship be fixed eventually? I'm curious. I will respect all opinions and hear everyone freely out. Thank you.

If I saw Eric Mangini in a bar I would not buy him a drink but I wouldn't throw one in his face either. I actually saw Mangini's remarks regretting the incident on ESPN and my disdain for him was lessened considerably. As for Mangini and Belichick reconciling, are you crazy? lol

Hey, I bet you didn't know Belichick can sing,

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2009/03/bill_belichick_16.html

and cook,

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If I saw Eric Mangini in a bar I would not buy him a drink but I wouldn't throw one in his face either. I actually saw Mangini's remarks regretting the incident on ESPN and my disdain for him was lessened considerably. As for Mangini and Belichick reconciling, are you crazy? lol

Hey, I bet you didn't know Belichick can sing,

http://www.boston.co...lichick_16.html

and cook,

Thanks for your reply Flying Elvis. Yeah, I tend to agree with your conclusion that Eric Mangini regrets initiating SpyGate when he was the head coach of the Jets vs now being on the set of ESPN's "NFL LIVE" sitting right next to Tedy Bruschi, as a fellow analyst himself, went a long way to losing the sting of any lingering feelings of animosity toward Eric overall. Both from a coaching perspective and a fan perspective.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/6966406/eric-mangini-regret-spygate-role-alienated-bill-belichick

"Yeah, there's a lot of regrets, I didn't want to hurt him or the Patriots by any stretch...I wasn't happy (with) the end result," said Mangini...I just didn't want it to play out the way it did." Nice deductive reasoning there Eric. haha :slaphead: :facepalm: Eric Mangini is well versed in breaking down game film. I have learned quite a bit from his ability to distill complicated formations into easy to understand concepts. So, you don't see Bill and Eric hugging over eggnog this Christmas huh? Santa Claus will be so disappointed and distraught over such melancholy news. :funny::lol:

Bill Belichick as a culinary chef and PB and J expert. Hmmm....He'd probably order the jam and peanut butter sandwich to follow the "Patriot Way" to the letter and systematically forbid any liquid from leaking out the side of the sandwich. If this happened, Bill would cut the PB and J from the active roster by removing the sandwich from the team's kitchen cafeteria menu thereby throwing in the trash and discarding it forever. NO ONE DEFIES BILL, NOT EVEN A PB and J SANDWICH. Just Kidding!!!

As far as Bill's singing goes, it wasn't all that bad IMO, but I seriously doubt that he will be auditioning to be one of Bon Jovi's backup singers the next time John heads out on a world concert tour. Besides, Bill's a great fit in Boston. Robert Kraft isn't letting Bill go without a fight or the Foxboro fan base for that matter either.

Thanks again for all the refreshingly down to earth Bill Belichick links and You Tube clips Flying Elvis. Hey, I'm still waiting on that peanut butter and banana sandwich my friend. Are you shipping my Bellichick masterpiece UPS or FED EX BTW? Let me know... :lol::spit:

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What an unlikely place to find such a glorious tribute to my favorite team. From a Patriots fan to a Colts fan, I thank you southwest1, well done!

Seconded here. SW1 is a stand-up guy, and what I really like about him is that he's like me... a fan of the game of football, first and foremost. And I think some of the best moments we've had in the last 10 years have come from the Pats-Colts rivalry.

Kudos, sir!

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Hey SW,

Thanks for your thoughts. You sound like NE is your team :D But seriously, you are making me wonder if i need to recalibrate my Belichick haterism. I read in NY times that Bob Kraft John Mara were worried about the damage to the league by the scab-ball and the focus on it while the Panthers’ Jerry Richardson and the Jets’ Woody Johnson were hardliners. Bob Kraft gets my props.

http://www.nytimes.c...field.html?_r=0

We share your Jerry Jones disgust in our household. Now that Al is dead, I might even root for the Raiders when they play Dallas. But even he cannot be worse than Dan Snyder. He seems to be a horrible human being from what I've read especially here. Have you seen this? It's actually hilarious.

http://www.washingto...-to-dan-snyder/

There are so many things that made me laugh/angry, but this has to be the worst one:

Pentagon Flag Hat: A Redskins cap sold for profit by Snyder to “commemorate September 11” in time for the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Ads boasted that the $23.99 caps, really just black Redskins hats with a red, white, and blue Pentagon sewn on the side, were “expected to be worn by the Redskins coaches.” No other NFL team put 9/11 commemorative products for sale during the 2006 season, for profit or otherwise. Snyder had previously added a $4 “security surcharge” to the ticket prices soon after the attacks.

I'm glad Pat Bowlen is not like that. Other than his full-length fur coat, I'm mostly in his corner. And my appreciation for Jim Irsay is growing.

Anyway, I digress...

You make some excellent points BayAreaBronco. Al Davis, Dan Snyder, and Jerry Jones all suffer from the same fatal flaw. An alternative version of reality, a parallel universe in which the Raiders, Redskins, and the Cowboys are all profitable, relevant, and winning franchises within this decade. They each act they have all hoisted the Lombardi Trophy within the past 4 NFL seasons and they appear to live vicariously through previous glory years of their football squads.

On the plus side, I will say that if all 3 owners believe in you as a talented player who can help their team win in the Playoffs, they will open their checkbook and pay whatever they must to secure your abilities for their organization. There's nothing worse than an NFL owner who is dirt cheap. You must spend money to compete and be relevant. Otherwise, your team is dead in the water before the season even begins. Naturally, there is the flip side of the coin: You can't fix every league issue or team issue with money. Spending money unwisely is just as dumb as refusing to spend any money at all to improve your team or a bare bones minimum. Until recently, both the Cleveland Browns and Chicago Bears fell into the cheapskate category IMO.

Al Davis, [while he was still alive] Dan Snyder, and Jerry Jones all suffer from institutional arrogance, over the top egos, a compulsion to dominate everything, and a lack of patience demanding a quick and easy fix to what ails their franchise. The best owners: Robert Kraft, Jim Irsay, Daniel M. Rooney, Pat Bowlen, John K. Mara are strong and steady, avoid panic and fan fear, and they make a decision and don't deviate from it 1 inch.

Thank you for your nice complement on Jim Irsay as an NFL owner. I appreciate that BAB. :thmup:

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Seconded here. SW1 is a stand-up guy, and what I really like about him is that he's like me... a fan of the game of football, first and foremost. And I think some of the best moments we've had in the last 10 years have come from the Pats-Colts rivalry.

Kudos, sir!

Thank you GoPats! I do your appreciate your complements about my respect for your stellar squad/franchise and my desire to maintain my objectivity in my analysis. And you are 1000% correct: The most memorable NFL games in recent memory came as a direct result of the unforgettable matchups between the Indianapolis Colts and the New England Patriots. Renewed rivalries are a beautiful sight for sore eyes. If Brady, Belichick, and Co. hoist the Lombardi Trophy this year, I will be happy for you and all my NE friends on here because you will have earned it fair and square using the tested, tried, and true "Patriot Way" model of consistency, no complacency, and working your caboose off.

RB"s Brandon Bolden and Stevan Ridley are going carry you all the way to AFC Championship Game against the Houston Texans IMO. Vince Wilfork always blows me away too and he looks faster this year. WOW!!!

You're A-okay in my book GoPats. :thmup: Nice talking with you as always my friend. :rock:

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Thank you GoPats! I do your appreciate your complements about my respect for your stellar squad/franchise and my desire to maintain my objectivity in my analysis. And you are 1000% correct: The most memorable NFL games in recent memory came as a direct result of the unforgettable matchups between the Indianapolis Colts and the New England Patriots. Renewed rivalries are a beautiful sight for sore eyes. If Brady, Belichick, and Co. hoist the Lombardi Trophy this year, I will be happy for you and all my NE friends on here because you will have earned it fair and square using the tested, tried, and true "Patriot Way" model of consistency, no complacency, and working your caboose off.

RB"s Brandon Bolden and Stevan Ridley are going carry you all the way to AFC Championship Game against the Houston Texans IMO. Vince Wilfork always blows me away too and he looks faster this year. WOW!!!

You're A-okay in my book GoPats. :thmup: Nice talking with you as always my friend. :rock:

Vince Wiflfork was a fast pass rusher in college depsite his size. Unfortunatley (for me as I was looking to see that) once he got to BB and the pro's it was all about the big plug in the middle with the 3-4. It appears with more 4-3 these days for NE (plus another big plug in the line) Vince gets to show off his speed a little more:)

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Vince Wiflfork was a fast pass rusher in college depsite his size. Unfortunatley (for me as I was looking to see that) once he got to BB and the pro's it was all about the big plug in the middle with the 3-4. It appears with more 4-3 these days for NE (plus another big plug in the line) Vince gets to show off his speed a little more:)

I agree JJ. Everytime, I think of Vince Wilfork I think of this "Top Gun" film line... haha Vince reminds me of an F-16 jet prior to takeoff. Enjoy the dogfight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rZWw9HE7o&feature=share&list=PL0BF8633A9F350791

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All I can say about Bellichek is one little story of mine.

We used to buy the big boxes of football cards every year from 90-95 at the flea market. My old man was very organized with them, if he ever had a hobby that was his.

I believe for a few years the NFL had the "Official" card or something similar to that "Pro Set". Very nice sets, I want to say 1993, but I also think the cards stretched back to the 1990 season. They normally included some very neat historical cards with Super Bowl MVPs, legendary coaches, and the key plays to the previous Super Bowl (One box from 1992 had a card for all the interceptions Jim Kelly threw in the Super Bowl against the Redskins), that also includes I remember they had a card for every Super Bowl that had the poster on it and a summary on the back, those were the coolest ones of them all.

Well, we had Bill Belichek's official coach card along with Jimmy Johnson, Marv Levy, and Joe Gibbs. "Who is this guy?" I want to say it was his first season with the Browns but I can't remember off top of my head, and I'm not digging for my old book of cards today. The card was damaged sadly with a coffee stain over it.

Had anyone told me 20 years ago that the stained card I saved as a kid was going to be someone still in the league, I would have never believed them. Back then I never got rid of cards, even the busts I had, I would keep them, which now I laugh it off when I think about the Rick Mirers and David Klinger cards shoved into a box down in my storage room.

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Speaking of Spy Gate, I have a question for Flying Elvis, VL, GoPats, and Yehoodi, all my NE friends on here, is Eric Mangini hated in the greater Boston area for betraying the "Patriot code of the locker room?"

If Eric walked into a popular Boston sports bar, would he be heckled, thrown out, and tarred and feathered? Or would he be hugged and cheered for the 3 Championships he helped NE win?

I would love to hear my buddies from Boston respond to this question. Any Patriots fan on here, please feel free to chime in with your perspective. I want an honest answer here. This is a retaliation free zone. How do each of you view Eric personally and why? Are you disappointed, angry, or indifferent about what Eric did? Has Eric permanently burned a bridge with Bill that won't ever be mended or can their friendship be fixed eventually? I'm curious. I will respect all opinions and hear everyone freely out. Thank you.

1st I would recomend the man NEVER go to a bar or anyplace up here, he IMO is still viled and hated.. although I personally got very happy when he failed MISRABLY as a HC.. But he Unknowingly destroyed his OWN coaching career because NO HC will IMO ever hire him as a DC which is sad he was a good DC and the last good 2ndary coach the Pats have had.

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Speaking about Belichick in Cleveland, did you guys see the NFL Network's "A Football Life: Cleveland ’95"? I remember him being the head coach there but I had no idea about the staff he had put together. Ozzie Newsome, Scott Pioli, Mike Tannenbaum, Jim Schwartz, Kirk Ferentz, Thomas Dimitroff, Nick Saban, Eric Mangini, Phil Savage, George Kokinis, Michael Lombardi, they were pretty much no-names back then but most of them are heavy hitters today.

http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/10/03/cleveland-95-where-are-they-now/?module=HP11_content_stream

It's on again tonight on NFL Network at 10PM. It's also on youtube as of this posting.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=a+football+life+cleveland+%2795&oq=a+football+life+cleveland+%2795&gs_l=youtube.3...418.10013.0.10580.31.14.1.16.16.0.164.1307.11j3.14.0...0.0...1ac.1.it4qPE4S3ko

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This is an interesting and unexpected thread to walk into before my first post on your forum.

At the same time I'm not that surprised.

I live in the heart and soul of Patriots football, Massachusetts, and I can tell you that when the Patriots used to play the Colts it would be a war paint weekend. We hated you. I hated you. All losses in the NFL are tough for us but when it came to the Colts we never wanted to give you an inch. Never.

There was the Steelers and there was the Colts, but the Colts were #1 on the enemies list. We never played a game that we didn't want to absolutely bury you in. We wanted to inflict pain on your fan base.More over, we didn't want to let you inflict pain on ours. I still remember clear as day watching the last time Peyton Manning played New England in a Colts uniform.

He returns to Gillette stadium tomorrow but it just doesn't feel the same.

I'm not a big believer in quarterback versus quarterback. I think that's largely a media invention to create hype. I believe in Team versus Team.

But it's somewhat of a somber feeling knowing that this may be the last time Tom Brady and Peyton Manning ever face each other on the field. Even if it's not, because of the new orange uniform, it just feels like the end of an era I really cherished looking back as a football fan.

The nervous pacing. The jumping to our feet after a big play. Driving through snow storms listening to Gil Santos passionately call the games. Cold nights in Gillette. Excited afternoons in living rooms with friends and family. The feeling that the game or season was on the line with every down.

It was the greatest rivalry in the league. It may have been the greatest rivalry of all time. It wasn't defined as others are, through trash talking, or fighting over a division, or even bad blood. The greatness of the Patritos and Colts rivalry was defined purely through the contest of two champions in a league with only one trophy.

Now that it's over I feel my hatred for the Colts has receeded and I don't carry with me the same grudges that I used to, towards Indianapolis or, even more unbelievable, Peyton Manning.

With him wearing the new uniform, It almost seems like just a novelty game tomorrow.

Peyton Manning, our great nemesis, is and will always be an Indianapolis Colt

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To answer an above question, let me put it like this:

If there were such a thing as football heck, we would all happilly sentence him to it to slither on his snake like stomach on fiery ashes for all eternity.

It was because of Mangini's treachory that men like Rodney Harrison and Tedi Bruschi have to answer slanderous questions about what they worked so hard for for the rest of their lives, just because of his envy towards Belichick.

Should he get a drink in a local bar?

I wouldn't recommend it.

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This is an interesting and unexpected thread to walk into before my first post on your forum.

At the same time I'm not that surprised.

I live in the heart and soul of Patriots football, Massachusetts, and I can tell you that when the Patriots used to play the Colts it would be a war paint weekend. We hated you. I hated you. All losses in the NFL are tough for us but when it came to the Colts we never wanted to give you an inch. Never.

There was the Steelers and there was the Colts, but the Colts were #1 on the enemies list. We never played a game that we didn't want to absolutely bury you in. We wanted to inflict pain on your fan base.More over, we didn't want to let you inflict pain on ours. I still remember clear as day watching the last time Peyton Manning played New England in a Colts uniform.

He returns to Gillette stadium tomorrow but it just doesn't feel the same.

I'm not a big believer in quarterback versus quarterback. I think that's largely a media invention to create hype. I believe in Team versus Team.

But it's somewhat of a somber feeling knowing that this may be the last time Tom Brady and Peyton Manning ever face each other on the field. Even if it's not, because of the new orange uniform, it just feels like the end of an era I really cherished looking back as a football fan.

The nervous pacing. The jumping to our feet after a big play. Driving through snow storms listening to Gil Santos passionately call the games. Cold nights in Gillette. Excited afternoons in living rooms with friends and family. The feeling that the game or season was on the line with every down.

It was the greatest rivalry in the league. It may have been the greatest rivalry of all time. It wasn't defined as others are, through trash talking, or fighting over a division, or even bad blood. The greatness of the Patritos and Colts rivalry was defined purely through the contest of two champions in a league with only one trophy.

Now that it's over I feel my hatred for the Colts has receeded and I don't carry with me the same grudges that I used to, towards Indianapolis or, even more unbelievable, Peyton Manning.

With him wearing the new uniform, It almost seems like just a novelty game tomorrow.

Peyton Manning, our great nemesis, is and will always be an Indianapolis Colt

Never hated Pats, been a Colt fan since mid 50's b growing up in Brooklyn NY

Been to Pats old stadium , at least believe it was different as was in 1980's , have many childhood friends that went to MIT and stayed in Boston or surrounding suburbs, my best friend now livens in Dover, Mass

Feel as u do its a sport thats TEam Vs Team , just so happens each is led by a great QB and u guys have a genius coach as well

Enjoyed beating pats of course but had to much respect for them & Rob Kraft if not hoodie actualy , just something about him rubs me wrong way, but no way did i feewl the emotional disdain I get from u regarding a loss to another great team and can say my Patriot country friends felt the same when pats lost to Colts

but to each his own and we all are allowed opinions on this board as long as done without 4 letter words.

so welcome to the forum

Barry

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All I can say about Bellichek is one little story of mine.

We used to buy the big boxes of football cards every year from 90-95 at the flea market. My old man was very organized with them, if he ever had a hobby that was his.

I believe for a few years the NFL had the "Official" card or something similar to that "Pro Set". Very nice sets, I want to say 1993, but I also think the cards stretched back to the 1990 season. They normally included some very neat historical cards with Super Bowl MVPs, legendary coaches, and the key plays to the previous Super Bowl (One box from 1992 had a card for all the interceptions Jim Kelly threw in the Super Bowl against the Redskins), that also includes I remember they had a card for every Super Bowl that had the poster on it and a summary on the back, those were the coolest ones of them all.

Well, we had Bill Belichek's official coach card along with Jimmy Johnson, Marv Levy, and Joe Gibbs. "Who is this guy?" I want to say it was his first season with the Browns but I can't remember off top of my head, and I'm not digging for my old book of cards today. The card was damaged sadly with a coffee stain over it.

Had anyone told me 20 years ago that the stained card I saved as a kid was going to be someone still in the league, I would have never believed them. Back then I never got rid of cards, even the busts I had, I would keep them, which now I laugh it off when I think about the Rick Mirers and David Klinger cards shoved into a box down in my storage room.

Here is a card story and its a beaut

You will love this, I had every football & baseball card at least 1 of in great condition from about 1955 on till 70's and who knew they would be of value so when great dad asked , and I knew how deidcated he was to his special ed students of 40 + years teaching, as even I found out at his eulogy that he was gone on Thanksgiving Morning as was giving toys he bought to kids in hospital & he paid poor students Medical bills and bought them glasses etc & we were not rich by any means just a teaching family , and dad was so great to me so as was saying he asked for the cards for his special ed students, & they called them a worse name at that time, I couldnt say no when he asked , so there were all these the special ed kids with all these great cards on the spokes of their bicycles to make this great roaring noise as they rode , but hey I did it too, all kids did in the 60's & 70's did----------------------------------------

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Seconded here. SW1 is a stand-up guy, and what I really like about him is that he's like me... a fan of the game of football, first and foremost. And I think some of the best moments we've had in the last 10 years have come from the Pats-Colts rivalry.

Kudos, sir!

Thank you GoPats! I do your appreciate your complements about my respect for your stellar squad/franchise and my desire to maintain my objectivity in my analysis. And you are 1000% correct: The most memorable NFL games in recent memory came as a direct result of the unforgettable matchups between the Indianapolis Colts and the New England Patriots. Renewed rivalries are a beautiful sight for sore eyes. If Brady, Belichick, and Co. hoist the Lombardi Trophy this year, I will be happy for you and all my NE friends on here because you will have earned it fair and square using the tested, tried, and true "Patriot Way" model of consistency, no complacency, and working your caboose off.

RB"s Brandon Bolden and Stevan Ridley are going carry you all the way to AFC Championship Game against the Houston Texans IMO. Vince Wilfork always blows me away too and he looks faster this year. WOW!!!

You're A-okay in my book GoPats. :thmup: Nice talking with you as always my friend. :rock:

NO DOUBT< MANY BURNED INTO THE UNDULATIONS IN MY BRIAIN< HEART & SOUL

& not just for Colt & Pat fans , or Peyton & Brady fans but for all true football fans everywhere, highlight reels for history

RB"s Brandon Bolden and Stevan Ridley appear to be a great force for a long time with good how shall i say combinations of size, strength & speed

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Never hated the Pats but I just can't stand BB.

If u read what I wrote 3 comments above u thats basically how i feel on BB, I wrote Never hated Pats ...... to much respect for them ( Pats ) & Rob Kraft if not hoodie actualy , just something about him rubs me wrong way,

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This is an interesting and unexpected thread to walk into before my first post on your forum.

At the same time I'm not that surprised.

I live in the heart and soul of Patriots football, Massachusetts, and I can tell you that when the Patriots used to play the Colts it would be a war paint weekend. We hated you. I hated you. All losses in the NFL are tough for us but when it came to the Colts we never wanted to give you an inch. Never.

There was the Steelers and there was the Colts, but the Colts were #1 on the enemies list. We never played a game that we didn't want to absolutely bury you in. We wanted to inflict pain on your fan base.More over, we didn't want to let you inflict pain on ours. I still remember clear as day watching the last time Peyton Manning played New England in a Colts uniform.

He returns to Gillette stadium tomorrow but it just doesn't feel the same.

I'm not a big believer in quarterback versus quarterback. I think that's largely a media invention to create hype. I believe in Team versus Team.

But it's somewhat of a somber feeling knowing that this may be the last time Tom Brady and Peyton Manning ever face each other on the field. Even if it's not, because of the new orange uniform, it just feels like the end of an era I really cherished looking back as a football fan.

The nervous pacing. The jumping to our feet after a big play. Driving through snow storms listening to Gil Santos passionately call the games. Cold nights in Gillette. Excited afternoons in living rooms with friends and family. The feeling that the game or season was on the line with every down.

It was the greatest rivalry in the league. It may have been the greatest rivalry of all time. It wasn't defined as others are, through trash talking, or fighting over a division, or even bad blood. The greatness of the Patritos and Colts rivalry was defined purely through the contest of two champions in a league with only one trophy.

Now that it's over I feel my hatred for the Colts has receeded and I don't carry with me the same grudges that I used to, towards Indianapolis or, even more unbelievable, Peyton Manning.

With him wearing the new uniform, It almost seems like just a novelty game tomorrow.

Peyton Manning, our great nemesis, is and will always be an Indianapolis Colt

PATS16N0,

An intriguing entry of mutual adversary animosity there. I wouldn't classify it as hate per say, just a strong, intense desire not to lose or choke in front of your squad. Emerging victorious among the Foxboro faithful meant that the Colts were tried, tested, and fundamentally sound. Everyone knew in INDY that when it came to Bill Belichick you had to play flawless, mistake free football for 3 hours straight. You had to be patient, convert on 3rd down, score touchdowns not field goals, and keep Tom Brady seated on the beach as long as possible. NE brought out the best in us and we brought out the best in them. Toughness, production, and results were the only thing that mattered...and Playoff appearances.

I agree with you 100% PATS16N0. QB vs QB comparisons are irrelevant. I wish the media would compare QB's vs CB's and safeties more myself or LB's and DE's vs QB's. It makes more sense.

I don't know. Just because #18 is wearing orange vs blue and white, it doesn't mean that an audience can't appreciate 2 mastermind field generals carve up their opposing secondary's like a Thanksgiving turkey. Whose got the better ground game? Whose got the better front 4 and overall pass rushers? Whose Special Team's will give their squad the best field position and opportunity to win? A rivalry doesn't just stop because colors and jersey names have changed in my mind anyway. I'm really looking forward to this game almost as much as the SB. How far has Peyton come in his rehab? How much further does he need to go? How much will Wes Welker be used? Which squad has the best offensive line and will give their QB the best protection downfield? What's the game plan for each team? Feel each other out slowly and methodically or go for the big play/flee flicker early to set a tone of dominance and control over your rival?

Yes, #18 will always be a Horseshoe commodity and INDY favorite son to me too. That will never change in my eyes. INDY drafted him first in 1998; he is ours to claim no one else's.

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To answer an above question, let me put it like this:

If there were such a thing as football heck, we would all happilly sentence him to it to slither on his snake like stomach on fiery ashes for all eternity.

It was because of Mangini's treachory that men like Rodney Harrison and Tedi Bruschi have to answer slanderous questions about what they worked so hard for for the rest of their lives, just because of his envy towards Belichick.

Should he get a drink in a local bar?

I wouldn't recommend it.

Actually PATS16N0,

There is a punishment worse than eternal darnation. It called purgatory the stage between paradise and the fierce, smoldering pit of Lucifer's underground Hades. See Dante's Inferno and the 9 levels of Hades or Milton's "Paradise Lost." For the record, I do not believe that Spygate has tainted Bill Belichick's 3 SB victories in any way, shape, or form. He earned all those Championship titles legitimately.

Thank you for your feedback PATS16N0. I always appreciate a fresh perspective on an age old question: Can the hatchet of betrayal and sabotage ever truly be buried? Probably not.

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Southwest1:

If you haven't seen it already, you sound like someone who would gain a lot from watching `A Football Life: Cleveland '95.`

It was incredibly entertaining and enlightening, and you see how and from what `The Patriot Way` was born.

It was a twist of fate that we were blessed with him in New England. The drafting of Tom Brady in the sixth round aside, the success of New England football, the foundation for the level of our organization, and the lasting legacy of success that will carry us forward after he's gone, could have belonged to Cleveland.

It's a really incredible story. I highly recommend it.

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I may be out of line here but to those who say they can't stand Belichick perhaps you haven't seen the real Bill, not the one you see at the post game press conferences but the one portrayed on this thread.

Here's Belichick breaking down coach's film from last years game against the Colts,

http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/Patriots-Today---Belichick-Breakdown/f371d9cc-3964-4dae-bbd3-a19f76355f3d

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Please note that I am writing this as a football fan..not as a fan of the Colts, or any other team, and that I am looking at this from a football perspective, not from any media hype or media bashing.

There is no denying of the greatness of the Patriots since Belichek took over. He is one of the greatest coaches ever to walk onto the field, and we all got an insight to the man on the 30-30 show. He has consistently built a team around a bunch of "so-called" nobodys, and every year, he just plugs these players in, and they perform. To me, that is greatness. For example, Deion Branch. It seems he could only produce with Belichek as his head coach, and now, he is brought back again this year, and made some catches in his first game back. The man is a football genius, and will go down as one of the greatest ever.

Tom Brady...Mr Cool, Calm, and Collective. One of the top 5 QB's of all time. And yet, no one saw him the way Belichek did, and has it ever payed dividends. Year in and year out the man just produces and wins. It doesn't matter who his RB's TE's or WR's are, the man just gets the ball to who and where its supposed to be.

I could go on and on about others, Bruschi, Vrabel, Law, and many others that have been mentioned in this thread. Its amazing how they step up to play for this coach. I will always respect them for what they do on the field, save for one thing. The one thing that really annoys me as a fan of football. I don't like this in any type of football...

RUNNING UP THE SCORE.

I lost a lot of respect for the Patriots, the year Brady broke the single season TD mark. They left him in games that were blowouts, passing and throwing for more and more TD's, when the game was already decided. Same with the Saints last year. Leaving Brees in against the Colts, and other teams as well, so he could try to break Marino's record. Come on..The Colts game was over after the 1st quarter. They rang up 63 points that game, and they did that to other teams as well. To me, that is classless, plain and simple. Put your reserves in, let them get some time and experience, and just move on to the next game, and win. There is never a point where its acceptable to humiliate another team. Now, if a blowout happens when 2nd and 3rd string players are still scoring, that is a different story altogether. (esp in college). But it should never happen in the pros, esp just to try to beat a record.

That is why, though I respect the Patriots for what they have accomplished under Belichek, I cannot forgive him for dis-respecting another team by running up scores.

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This is an interesting and unexpected thread to walk into before my first post on your forum.

At the same time I'm not that surprised.

I live in the heart and soul of Patriots football, Massachusetts, and I can tell you that when the Patriots used to play the Colts it would be a war paint weekend. We hated you. I hated you. All losses in the NFL are tough for us but when it came to the Colts we never wanted to give you an inch. Never.

There was the Steelers and there was the Colts, but the Colts were #1 on the enemies list. We never played a game that we didn't want to absolutely bury you in. We wanted to inflict pain on your fan base.More over, we didn't want to let you inflict pain on ours. I still remember clear as day watching the last time Peyton Manning played New England in a Colts uniform.

He returns to Gillette stadium tomorrow but it just doesn't feel the same.

I'm not a big believer in quarterback versus quarterback. I think that's largely a media invention to create hype. I believe in Team versus Team.

But it's somewhat of a somber feeling knowing that this may be the last time Tom Brady and Peyton Manning ever face each other on the field. Even if it's not, because of the new orange uniform, it just feels like the end of an era I really cherished looking back as a football fan.

The nervous pacing. The jumping to our feet after a big play. Driving through snow storms listening to Gil Santos passionately call the games. Cold nights in Gillette. Excited afternoons in living rooms with friends and family. The feeling that the game or season was on the line with every down.

It was the greatest rivalry in the league. It may have been the greatest rivalry of all time. It wasn't defined as others are, through trash talking, or fighting over a division, or even bad blood. The greatness of the Patriots and Colts rivalry was defined purely through the contest of two champions in a league with only one trophy.

Now that it's over I feel my hatred for the Colts has receded and I don't carry with me the same grudges that I used to, towards Indianapolis or, even more unbelievable, Peyton Manning.

With him wearing the new uniform, It almost seems like just a novelty game tomorrow.

Peyton Manning, our great nemesis, is and will always be an Indianapolis Colt

Wow...what a post..(and your first on this forum)..This really made me think back, and reminisce back through all the years. In this post, you captured every feeling, though, and emotion I have towards the Patriots as a Colt fan. It didn't matter to me if we lost every other game of the year, I just wanted to see the Colts totally destroy the hated Patriots, and for Peyton outshine Brady at every turn. This is the game (or games) I looked forward to most of all. Any other rivalry pales in comparison to this one. Two great teams, going at each other full throttle with almost every year, the AFC championship on the line, whether it be game 1, or game 16. The other games leading up to this game, almost seemed unimportant, and with each passing day, the intensity and anticipation rose. When the kickoff finally came, nothing else in the world mattered for that period of time. I would lose myself in the game itself, almost as if I was down on the field, wanting to give my last breath, to do anything I could do to help us win.

When I watched Peyton against the Pats last weekend, it finally occurred to me...The previous games Peyton played as a Bronco, I still saw him as our leader, our QB..but then, all of a sudden, the intensity was gone..I then truly realized that it will never be the same again...its not about Peyton and Brady anymore..its not the Colts and Pats anymore..

It was truly the end of an era, then end of the greatest rivalry ever. Though the Colts and Pats are still rivals, it will never be quite the same again.

Thank you for making your post, and welcome to the Forum.

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Please note that I am writing this as a football fan..not as a fan of the Colts, or any other team, and that I am looking at this from a football perspective, not from any media hype or media bashing.

There is no denying of the greatness of the Patriots since Belichek took over. He is one of the greatest coaches ever to walk onto the field, and we all got an insight to the man on the 30-30 show. He has consistently built a team around a bunch of "so-called" nobodys, and every year, he just plugs these players in, and they perform. To me, that is greatness. For example, Deion Branch. It seems he could only produce with Belichek as his head coach, and now, he is brought back again this year, and made some catches in his first game back. The man is a football genius, and will go down as one of the greatest ever.

Tom Brady...Mr Cool, Calm, and Collective. One of the top 5 QB's of all time. And yet, no one saw him the way Belichek did, and has it ever payed dividends. Year in and year out the man just produces and wins. It doesn't matter who his RB's TE's or WR's are, the man just gets the ball to who and where its supposed to be.

I could go on and on about others, Bruschi, Vrabel, Law, and many others that have been mentioned in this thread. Its amazing how they step up to play for this coach. I will always respect them for what they do on the field, save for one thing. The one thing that really annoys me as a fan of football. I don't like this in any type of football...

RUNNING UP THE SCORE.

I lost a lot of respect for the Patriots, the year Brady broke the single season TD mark. They left him in games that were blowouts, passing and throwing for more and more TD's, when the game was already decided. Same with the Saints last year. Leaving Brees in against the Colts, and other teams as well, so he could try to break Marino's record. Come on..The Colts game was over after the 1st quarter. They rang up 63 points that game, and they did that to other teams as well. To me, that is classless, plain and simple. Put your reserves in, let them get some time and experience, and just move on to the next game, and win. There is never a point where its acceptable to humiliate another team. Now, if a blowout happens when 2nd and 3rd string players are still scoring, that is a different story altogether. (esp in college). But it should never happen in the pros, esp just to try to beat a record.

That is why, though I respect the Patriots for what they have accomplished under Belichek, I cannot forgive him for dis-respecting another team by running up scores.

A very well written review CF4L. There is no denying the remarkable excellence of both Bellichick and Brady. Let's not ignore owner Robert Kraft. A good man and a fantastic NFL owner. Leadership at the top means everything. Who you hire to lead these men into battle every Sunday is crucial to a franchise's success. Maintaining a closed door policy to all matters of company business to anyone outside Foxboro is vital. Every player toes the company line and if they deviate from the message they are gone. You earn your money through production, blood, sweat, and tears not an agent playing hardball. And Robert Kraft doesn't stick his nose where it doesn't belong; He's not a limelight attention junkie like Jerry Jones.

I can sympathize with your concern to avoid running up the score. It is the defense's job to stop the offense; But at a certain point a victory is a victory and there is no real need to steamroll over another NFL squad. There is 1 exception to this rule: Notorious trashed talkers and egotistical bleeps that need to be knocked off their pedestal HARD and repeatedly about 500 times....Jets, Cowboys, and Eagles come to mind. All 3 of these teams have a glaring sense of entitlement that their winning Playoff percentages, or lack their of, in recent memory is simply unwarranted and not justified IMO.

I do admire Tom Brady's ability to plug in any athlete and still win. It amazing! [Well, except for WR Chad Johnson. Not Brady's fault. Chad was just too slow to grasp the Patriots elaborate playbook and their multiple route combinations and WR responsibilities.] I only seen 3 other QB's do this seamlessly: Warren Moon, Joe Montana, and Peyton Manning. A rare gift to raise the player performance of every other team mate around you.

Excellent job my friend. :thmup:

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Please note that I am writing this as a football fan..not as a fan of the Colts, or any other team, and that I am looking at this from a football perspective, not from any media hype or media bashing.

There is no denying of the greatness of the Patriots since Belichek took over. He is one of the greatest coaches ever to walk onto the field, and we all got an insight to the man on the 30-30 show. He has consistently built a team around a bunch of "so-called" nobodys, and every year, he just plugs these players in, and they perform. To me, that is greatness. For example, Deion Branch. It seems he could only produce with Belichek as his head coach, and now, he is brought back again this year, and made some catches in his first game back. The man is a football genius, and will go down as one of the greatest ever.

Tom Brady...Mr Cool, Calm, and Collective. One of the top 5 QB's of all time. And yet, no one saw him the way Belichek did, and has it ever payed dividends. Year in and year out the man just produces and wins. It doesn't matter who his RB's TE's or WR's are, the man just gets the ball to who and where its supposed to be.

I could go on and on about others, Bruschi, Vrabel, Law, and many others that have been mentioned in this thread. Its amazing how they step up to play for this coach. I will always respect them for what they do on the field, save for one thing. The one thing that really annoys me as a fan of football. I don't like this in any type of football...

RUNNING UP THE SCORE.

I lost a lot of respect for the Patriots, the year Brady broke the single season TD mark. They left him in games that were blowouts, passing and throwing for more and more TD's, when the game was already decided. Same with the Saints last year. Leaving Brees in against the Colts, and other teams as well, so he could try to break Marino's record. Come on..The Colts game was over after the 1st quarter. They rang up 63 points that game, and they did that to other teams as well. To me, that is classless, plain and simple. Put your reserves in, let them get some time and experience, and just move on to the next game, and win. There is never a point where its acceptable to humiliate another team. Now, if a blowout happens when 2nd and 3rd string players are still scoring, that is a different story altogether. (esp in college). But it should never happen in the pros, esp just to try to beat a record.

That is why, though I respect the Patriots for what they have accomplished under Belichek, I cannot forgive him for dis-respecting another team by running up scores.

Running up the score is the dumbest argument in professional sports.

This is a PROFESSIONAL game. Players are PAID to play offense and defense. Hundreds of thousands of dollars per game, for crying out loud.

And as we've seen in the past, leads aren't safe.

Not only that, but as players in a professional game, teams need to work out, in game situations, plays that may or may not work in future games. In '07 against the Redskins, the Patriots ran a play that they ended up adding to their repertoire and used in the playoffs to help win a game. If they hadn't attempted that play in that blowout of a Redskins game, they may never have used it in the playoffs.

Running up the score. Please. This is a man's game, and men are paid to play it. There's no such thing as running up the score.

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I tried to be objective, and I tried to express my feelings and opinions as best I could..But you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Viri, I was not arguing anything when I stated my opinion about the reason I lost some respect for Belichek in 2007. I was stating my opinion, on what I believe in and how I was brought up. I was taught never to kick a man when he's down. If the fight is over..its over. There is no need to humiliate another after victory is secure. And at the end of 3 quarters in that game, it was 38-0 Pats. Washington was totally over matched in every aspect of that game.

And, I wasn't talking about just professional sports when it comes to running up the score. College teams, high school teams, people that aren't professionals...I was referring to anyone that intentionally goes above and beyond securing a victory by continuing to humiliate a far less superior team. (ie. a basketball game that ends up 112-14) There is a difference between playing hard 100 percent of the time, and humiliating a team when its down.

You also made a point that they tried out a play in that blowout that they later used to help win a playoff game. They have 4 quarters to try out any new plays at any time during a game. Now, I'm assuming from your post that they tried this play late in the game. They could just have easily tried that play much earlier in the game, with little or no affect on the outcome, or in any other blowout game they had that year. Also, no team has ever come back from 38 points down in the 4th quarter, so your comment about "no lead is safe" is moot in this instance.

I was also referring to the 63 point game and numerous other games the Saints just passed and passed to try to get Brees the passing yards record. Marino held that record for years, and not once did his team run up the score just for records. I have no problem when a back is having a big day, and they give him a few more carries to try for a record he was so close to in NORMAL game circumstances. Like when the Cowboys gave DeMarco Murray a few more runs to try to break Emmitt's team record.

You are entitled to your opinions, and I respect them. I don't disrespect Belichick, Brady, or anyone..I just lost some respect for something I felt they did, with which I did not agree.

But to each his own..but someday, when you kick a dog that's down, he eventually might get back up and later on bite you where the sun don't shine.

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I just watched "A Football Life: Cleveland 95." A superb TV documentary on Bill Belichick, his underpaid and overworked disciples, owner Art Modell moving the Browns to Baltimore, a devastated Cleveland fan base that wrongly lashes out at Belichick and his staff, and the Ravens SB victory over the NY Giants in 2000.

I am ticked off at Art Modell right now. Why hire Bill Belichick, marvel at his scouting strategy/breakdown of the game, and then proceed to pull the rug from underneath his feet? The list of talent Bill assembled on his staff is mind blowing and simply incredible: OZZIE NEWSOME, SCOTT PIOLI, MIKE TANNENBAUM, JIM SCHWARTZ, THOMAS DIMITROFF, NICK SABAN, ERIC MANGINI, and MICHAEL LOMBARDI. A gold standard of professional football coaches and front office personnel on the active sports landscape today.

"Bill had me dissect 1 play for 20 minutes." "Be a professional and focus only on what you can control." "I learned from Cleveland the danger of distractions and keeping the media at arm's length." Fascinating just fascinating. The more I learn about Bill and his meager beginnings; the more I respect him as a man, as a mentor, and as a model of unflappable consistency. "Just do your job" and let the chips fall where they may. I wonder if Coach Bill Parcells knew what a genius he had as a DC in NY. I doubt it. Coach Mike Shanahan always said that Belicheck was a visionary ahead of his time and he was right.

I feel so sorry for the Cleveland fan base though. Bill was right on the verge of Championship Glory and Art Modell spit in the face of Ohio fans and the coaching staff just to load up the Mayflower moving semis in search of a quick, easy fix. Browns fans deserved better than this and so did Bill's exhausted staff. Man, when I think of all that hard work and countless hours spent watching game tape, doing laundry, running errands, and sorting through equipment and injury reports...It makes my blood boil. Cleveland earned that trophy not Baltimore. Shame on you Art Modell RIP!!!

It would be interesting to analyze famous NFL coaching trees: The Walsh tree, the Holmgren tree, the Dungy tree, and the Belichick tree. All of these trees have certainly flourished and grown productive fruit through the NFL and the fans immensely benefit because of it IMO.

Thank you Flying Elvis and all of Patriots Nation for cluing me in on the private side of Bill Belichick. I am a more profound admirer of the Grey Hoodie as a result of it. I appreciate that you would allow a Colts fan behind the Gillette Stadium curtain.

120131114137_Bill-Belichick.jpg

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A Patriots tribute would not be complete without honoring their world class owner Robert Kraft. The man is worth $1.7 billion and yet he is very philanthropic and humble. See below please...RIP Myra Kraft and I am glad that Robert is being social again with a new girlfriend now. Mr. Kraft is a good man and he deserves to be happy and content IMO. A phenomenally modest and darn nice guy. :thmup:

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Southhwest 1.

You might be interested in the book "The Education of a Coach" by David Halberstam which is about Belichick including when he was a kid breaking down plays with his father.

I don't like to read so didn't read much of it except the Ram SB preparation which was worth the price alone:)

Avail at Amazon for around 17 bucks.

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I just watched "A Football Life: Cleveland 95." A superb TV documentary on Bill Belichick, his underpaid and overworked disciples, owner Art Modell moving the Browns to Baltimore, a devastated Cleveland fan base that wrongly lashes out at Belichick and his staff, and the Ravens SB victory over the NY Giants in 2000.

I am ticked off at Art Modell right now. Why hire Bill Belichick, marvel at his scouting strategy/breakdown of the game, and then proceed to pull the rug from underneath his feet? The list of talent Bill assembled on his staff is mind blowing and simply incredible: OZZIE NEWSOME, SCOTT PIOLI, MIKE TANNENBAUM, JIM SCHWARTZ, THOMAS DIMITROFF, NICK SABAN, ERIC MANGINI, and MICHAEL LOMBARDI. A gold standard of professional football coaches and front office personnel on the active sports landscape today.

"Bill had me dissect 1 play for 20 minutes." "Be a professional and focus only on what you can control." "I learned from Cleveland the danger of distractions and keeping the media at arm's length." Fascinating just fascinating. The more I learn about Bill and his meager beginnings; the more I respect him as a man, as a mentor, and as a model of unflappable consistency. "Just do your job" and let the chips fall where they may. I wonder if Coach Bill Parcells knew what a genius he had as a DC in NY. I doubt it. Coach Mike Shanahan always said that Belicheck was a visionary ahead of his time and he was right.

I feel so sorry for the Cleveland fan base though. Bill was right on the verge of Championship Glory and Art Modell spit in the face of Ohio fans and the coaching staff just to load up the Mayflower moving semis in search of a quick, easy fix. Browns fans deserved better than this and so did Bill's exhausted staff. Man, when I think of all that hard work and countless hours spent watching game tape, doing laundry, running errands, and sorting through equipment and injury reports...It makes my blood boil. Cleveland earned that trophy not Baltimore. Shame on you Art Modell RIP!!!

It would be interesting to analyze famous NFL coaching trees: The Walsh tree, the Holmgren tree, the Dungy tree, and the Belichick tree. All of these trees have certainly flourished and grown productive fruit through the NFL and the fans immensely benefit because of it IMO.

Thank you Flying Elvis and all of Patriots Nation for cluing me in on the private side of Bill Belichick. I am a more profound admirer of the Grey Hoodie as a result of it. I appreciate that you would allow a Colts fan behind the Gillette Stadium curtain.

120131114137_Bill-Belichick.jpg

Belichick is the greatest modern day football coach, better than Parcells and just as good as Bill Walsh, IMO.

However, I still despise the Patriots and will never root for them to get to a SB or win it, that is just me!!! :)

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