60 replies to this topic

[esmort]

First off fair warning this is an article from Bleacher Report by Nate Dunlevy.

 

 

While he did point to the OL as a problem I think he let the line off a little too easy.  One of his premises being that Manning took less sacks behind just as bad of line. I think the OL figured a little more into Luck's sack total than Dunlevy seems to.

 

The other reason I posted this isn't in the actual article ... if you read the comments Dunlevy tries to make the argument that there is no such thing as a "clutch" player ... which I completely disagree with.

 

http://bleacherrepor...luck-from-elite

[Buck Showalter]

So basically,Luck needs to get sacked less..

Thank you Mr. Obvious!!!

[Malakai432]

So basically,Luck needs to get sacked less..
Thank you Mr. Obvious!!!

I also like how there is no such thing as a clutch player. Some players show up consistently when it counts. Aka Reggie Miller was one of the most clutch basketball players in history. With the game on the line, you gave him the ball because he was your best opportunity to win at the last second. Not really sure he knows what he's talking about.

Lets just let Luck get sacked and put in Stanton if we need a game winning drive.

[oldunclemark]

I agree there is no such thing as a clutcth player..or clucth gene..that's something we create as fans

Guys like Miller missed the final shot more often than they made it...so did Jordan

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning throw interceptions and loses..

They are still great...


....If a guy cant perform under pressure he doenst reach the professional level..

Some players are just better than others and that's what you see in clutch situtaions.

Andrew Luck..He has to play 3 or 4 years before he can be considered elite....He's just a rookie

[dw49]

I think he does make a good point that our receivers often had trouble getting open and the system didn't allow for easy "dump offs" when this happened.

[Malakai432]

I agree there is no such thing as a clutcth player..or clucth gene..that's something we create as fans

Guys like Miller missed the final shot more often than they made it...so did Jordan

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning throw interceptions and loses..

They are still great...


....If a guy cant perform under pressure he doenst reach the professional level..

Some players are just better than others and that's what you see in clutch situtaions.

Andrew Luck..He has to play 3 or 4 years before he can be considered elite....He's just a rookie

Yeah I agree to a certain extent however it's still ones ability to perform in those game winning situations that makes them a so called "clutch player." While I do agree it's not a gene, it's the ability to do it time and time again which makes people perceive them as a clutch player.

Perception can still be valid in terms of qualifying a player who shows up time and time again at the last second as clutch.

I guess it's a moot point because anyways it's all opinionated and perceptual.

It would kind of be like comparing two players of the same speed but one looks faster because he's more flashy and makes more plays. It's all based on how one perceives that player.

On another note there have been players throughout time that have breakdowns under pressure for various reason. Some players just can't get it done.

[21isSuperman]

I agree there is no such thing as a clutcth player..or clucth gene..that's something we create as fans

Guys like Miller missed the final shot more often than they made it...so did Jordan

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning throw interceptions and loses..

They are still great...


....If a guy cant perform under pressure he doenst reach the professional level..

Some players are just better than others and that's what you see in clutch situtaions.

Andrew Luck..He has to play 3 or 4 years before he can be considered elite....He's just a rookie

Well said.  I agree with all of this.

[QwizBoy]

I agree there is no such thing as a clutcth player..or clucth gene..that's something we create as fans

Guys like Miller missed the final shot more often than they made it...so did Jordan

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning throw interceptions and loses..

They are still great...


....If a guy cant perform under pressure he doenst reach the professional level..

Some players are just better than others and that's what you see in clutch situtaions.

Andrew Luck..He has to play 3 or 4 years before he can be considered elite....He's just a rookie

Good post Mark.

[BrentMc11]

I agree there is no such thing as a clutcth player..or clucth gene..that's something we create as fans

Guys like Miller missed the final shot more often than they made it...so did Jordan

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning throw interceptions and loses..

They are still great...


....If a guy cant perform under pressure he doenst reach the professional level..

Some players are just better than others and that's what you see in clutch situtaions.

Andrew Luck..He has to play 3 or 4 years before he can be considered elite....He's just a rookie

Very interesting!  And true....no argument as you lay it out.  However some players/people are more clutch than others....Larry Bird.....vs ARod 7th game NBA vs. 7th game World Series?

 

So is there such a thing as a choke artist?  Or do they just have the choke gene....or just an old pair of Wranglers...  

[Fx Stryker]

Or do they just have the choke gene....or just an old pair of Wranglers...  

 

I see what you did there...

[SilentHill]

I agree there is no such thing as a clutcth player..or clucth gene..that's something we create as fans

Guys like Miller missed the final shot more often than they made it...so did Jordan

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning throw interceptions and loses..

They are still great...


....If a guy cant perform under pressure he doenst reach the professional level..

Some players are just better than others and that's what you see in clutch situtaions.

Andrew Luck..He has to play 3 or 4 years before he can be considered elite....He's just a rookie

 

So what your saying is, if Luck and the Colts go 19-0 next season on Luck's shoulders he won't be elite?

 

I know that sounds foolish bu to claim he wont be elite for 3 or 4 years is in that same boat.

 

 

IN regards to the article, it was the offense we ran combined with a horrible O-line that amounted to Luck's sack totals, I'm not putting any blame on Luck for that. He had to hold onto the ball for the routes to be open, and 90% of the time he got sacked it was just a split second away from throwing to an open receiver.

[NewColtsFan]

I have not read the article.

 

I have watched Luck at Stanford for 3 years and now with the Colts for one.

 

I'm absolutely convinced that the Luck we saw this year was just the tip of the iceberg.   That he's capable of much, much more and that we will see it in the years to come.     There were enough plays this year that made me think.... "I don't even recognize this Andrew Luck..."    At times he felt very square peg in a round hole.    I sincerely believe he's much more suited to the WCO.

 

Now, whether Pep Hamilton is the right OC for Luck is still to be determined.   I'm not convinced yet.   And won't be either way until the end of next season.

 

But the best of Andrew Luck is still in front of us...   and it is much better than what we have seen or what some here can imagine.     Honestly.    Seriously.

[TKnight85]

"How far is Luck from Elite"

Hmmm......

2-14 to 11-5
Most Wins by a #1 Overall QB
Most Comeback Wins by a Rookie QB
Passing Yards in a Single Season Record
Etc. Etc.

Would I be exaggerating if I said he's ELITE now???

[Malakai432]

He's a couple very giant Dos Equis's and few shots of El Jimador Anejo away from being elite!!! I win one to nothing!!! Ok time for another beverage.

[Nobody]

No such thing as clutch? Sorry guys, you're flat out wrong there.

[NewColtsFan]

"How far is Luck from Elite"

Hmmm......

2-14 to 11-5
Most Wins by a #1 Overall QB
Most Comeback Wins by a Rookie QB
Passing Yards in a Single Season Record
Etc. Etc.

Would I be exaggerating if I said he's ELITE now???

 

I'm not 100% sure on this, but it might be most comeback wins in season by ANY quarterback,   not just rookie.

Anyone know for sure??

[TKnight85]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but it might be most comeback wins in season by ANY quarterback, not just rookie.
Anyone know for sure??

If it's by ANY QB.....

*writes Luck on the Elite List*

[QwizBoy]

"How far is Luck from Elite"

Hmmm......

2-14 to 11-5
Most Wins by a #1 Overall QB
Most Comeback Wins by a Rookie QB
Passing Yards in a Single Season Record
Etc. Etc.

Would I be exaggerating if I said he's ELITE now???

Yes, you would be. Lol.

[TKnight85]

Yes, you would be. Lol.

-__- Texans always gotta rain on a parade huh? Lol

[GrizzColt]

By clutch, some might mean that the player doesn't get as nervous in big moments and that makes him play better.  I don't think for a second that Manning was nervous when he threw the pick in the Super Bowl or against the Ravens.  He might have made a mistake, but it wasn't because the moment was too big for him.  So, I agree with Mark.  There's way too many other things that can happen (cough...a safety not playing far enough back) to affect the outcome of a game.

[QwizBoy]

-__- Texans always gotta rain on a parade huh? Lol

I like to be the voice of reason . I'm sure a lot of others would agree with me. Nobody becomes elite in year one. Not even Brady, Manning, Montana managed to do that. The word elite is so overused these days anyway.

[GrizzColt]

Child prodigies in music or science are elite, are they not?  Why can't a young QB be elite? 

[TKnight85]

I like to be the voice of reason . I'm sure a lot of others would agree with me. Nobody becomes elite in year one. Not even Brady, Manning, Montana managed to do that. The word elite is so overused these days anyway.

You're right, Elite is so played out.

Luck is supercalfragilestic expealadoshes!!!!! (Major Spellcheck)

[QwizBoy]

You're right, Elite is so played out.

Luck is supercalfragilestic expealadoshes!!!!! (Major Spellcheck)

That's a better word to describe him.

And....I think you spelled it right. , if you didn't don't feel bad, I doubt that even Spellcheck could spell that right

[MAC]

Child prodigies in music or science are elite, are they not?  Why can't a young QB be elite? 

True, but if I recall Mozart completed 75% of his passes in his first year.

 

 

[Fx Stryker]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but it might be most comeback wins in season by ANY quarterback,   not just rookie.

Anyone know for sure??

 

Delhomme and Eli have 8 for a season, but they include the playoffs. The record is 8 for a season though. I guess they include playoffs for that record.

[the cardinal]

-__- Texans always gotta rain on a parade huh? Lol

That's because they've never had one.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

Q. When will Luck be elite?

A. He will be elite when he has a real Offensive Line.

[QwizBoy]

That's because they've never had one.

I've been to plenty of parades! 4th of July, hellooo!

[QwizBoy]

True, but if I recall Mozart completed 75% of his passes in his first year.

He only had 2 interceptions too. The guy was an animal.

[GrizzColt]

True, but if I recall Mozart completed 75% of his passes in his first year.

 

You're right.  I remember that as well.  Now, Handel was a true prodigy though.  He would sing "Hallelujah. Hallelujah" for his TD celebrations.  He was the originator.

[Malakai432]

Very interesting!  And true....no argument as you lay it out.  However some players/people are more clutch than others....Larry Bird.....vs ARod 7th game NBA vs. 7th game World Series?
 
So is there such a thing as a choke artist?  Or do they just have the choke gene....or just an old pair of Wranglers...  

Good point, I'm not sure if Ryan Leaf would ever be considered clutch but that could've been because he was more focused on what % of $ to blow on certain activities in terms of gambling.

[shakedownstreet]

mozart > unitas

[trueblueblood]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but it might be most comeback wins in season by ANY quarterback, not just rookie.
Anyone know for sure??

He's tied for first all-time, not sure who he's tied with

[Malakai432]

Yes, you would be. Lol.

Yes Quiz, it would be saying something similar to Schuab being elite at this point.... This I do agree, he's not there yet. Seems Scuab has a ways to go also, but at least Luck is only in his first year.

Don't hate me I love you in a platonic way!!!! Or do it

[JorokasXII]

Well, feel free to contact Nate on Twitter if you disagree with any part of this article so he can talk to you like you're a > as he does anyone that disagrees with his opinions. Yeah, I had to unfollow the guy lol. Heard "your opinion in invalid" one too many times.

[FalseStart]

He's approximately 1 solid draft away...

 

 

1. (TRADE TO ARIZONA for 2nd,3rd = valued picks)

(2.) Matt Elam or Reid (SS) 

*(2.) Kevin Minter or Khasem Greene (LB)

(3.) Menelik Watson or Dallas Thomas (OL)

3. Da'Rick Rodgers (WR)

4. Jelani Jenkins (LB)

5. Kwame Geathers (NT)

6. ...trade the rest for 2013 pick(s)

 

3 levels of defense addressed: S-LBs-DL and OL & #2 WR

 

*Trade: Angerer to St. Louis for 2nd round pick.

FA: Long (OL)

FA: Killeen (DE/OLB) -Already completed.

[Warhorse]

He's a couple very giant Dos Equis's and few shots of El Jimador Anejo away from being elite!!! I win one to nothing!!! Ok time for another beverage.

Stay thirsty my friend.

[Malakai432]

Stay thirsty my friend.

You are the most interesting man in the world!

[QwizBoy]

Yes Quiz, it would be saying something similar to Schuab being elite at this point.... This I do agree, he's not there yet. Seems Scuab has a ways to go also, but at least Luck is only in his first year.

Don't hate me I love you in a platonic way!!!! Or do it

You're absolutely right lol. I wouldn't call Schaub elite either. And yeah I know you do.