70 replies to this topic

[HtownColt]

No. 24 -- Indianapolis: Menelik Watson, OT, Florida State

Kiper: “Who? Well, suffice to say, after just one year at Florida State, scouts know all about Watson, and people in NFL front offices are starting to catch up. This is a kid who has played basketball at the D-I level, can really use his hands to swat away rushers given a track record as an emerging boxing talent, and will go to the combine and run in the 4.8 range at around 320 pounds.”

Kuharsky: Protecting Andrew Luck has to be a priority and Kiper loves the ceiling for Watson. If he can upgrade the right tackle spot in a hurry, he sounds good to me.

 

here is something extra on him http://oaklandraider...lik-watson.html

[BrentMc11]

Sounds like I just heard "Guns Hochuli" state "Indianapolis is reporting that number 71 is an eligible receiver."  With great hands...a 320 pound TE at goal line......  As our friend Princeton Tiger says:  "Interesting."  

 

[Boilerjd16]

For those interested in some background on this guy here you go

 

 

http://grfx.cstv.com..._event/MW12.pdf

 

 

To me at first glance you would say this guy shouldn't be a first rounder because he is so raw.  But that being said I would at least consider it because he already has all the skills and traits to be a pro bowl right tackle.  He just needs to be coached on some technique.  Also if you can go from never playing football to 2 years later being a starter at FSU  you must have something between the ears.

[BrentMc11]

For those interested in some background on this guy here you go

 

 

http://grfx.cstv.com..._event/MW12.pdf

 

 

To me at first glance you would say this guy shouldn't be a first rounder because he is so raw.  But that being said I would at least consider it because he already has all the skills and traits to be a pro bowl right tackle.  He just needs to be coached on some technique.  Also if you can go from never playing football to 2 years later being a starter at FSU  you must have something between the ears.

Nice read....a beneficial first post.  Thank you

[NewColtsFan]

Kids like this,  and Ansah at BYU,  are the kind where scouts really earn their money.

 

Great physical talent.   Literally just learning the game.    But not much experience,  so they're learning on the job.....

 

It's the type of pick that make scouts/gm's/coaches very nervous.    This can turn into Boom or Bust or anywhere in between.   Very unpredictable.

 

We'll need to do lots and lots and lots of homework on guys like this.    Lots.

 

But, if he pans out,  that'd be sweet........

[chad72]

It still states that he is raw and has to be coached up. So, essentially, he is a project that you have to take a bit of a chance on and not a 4 yr. starter, or even a 3 yr. starter. In a draft where we have picks 1, 3, and 4 and not a 2nd, a project is not what I would want to invest a 1st rounder on, personally.

 

If he is around for the 2nd round pick and we had one, I would not have minded it but not for a first round pick. Sorry, it will not fly with me as a GM, especially if I have to shell out a 5 yr. contract probably worth millions to him.

 

One of Jonathan Cooper, Alex Okafor, D.J.Fluker is likely to be available then and I would prefer to get one of them.

[GrizzColt]

It still states that he is raw and has to be coached up. So, essentially, he is a project that you have to take a bit of a chance on and not a 4 yr. starter, or even a 3 yr. starter. In a draft where we have picks 1, 3, and 4 and not a 2nd, a project is not what I would want to invest a 1st rounder on, personally.

 

If he is around for the 2nd round pick and we had one, I would not have minded it but not for a first round pick. Sorry, it will not fly with me as a GM, especially if I have to shell out a 5 yr. contract probably worth millions to him.

 

One of Jonathan Cooper, Alex Okafor, D.J.Fluker is likely to be available then and I would prefer to get one of them.

 

While I agree with you in theory, yesterday I found a terrible scouting report on Okafor from the National Post that would definitely scare me away from him.  They have him as the 199th best player.  If one scout sees that in him, I don't call that safe.  

[Jason_S]

It still states that he is raw and has to be coached up. So, essentially, he is a project that you have to take a bit of a chance on and not a 4 yr. starter, or even a 3 yr. starter. In a draft where we have picks 1, 3, and 4 and not a 2nd, a project is not what I would want to invest a 1st rounder on, personally.

 

If he is around for the 2nd round pick and we had one, I would not have minded it but not for a first round pick. Sorry, it will not fly with me as a GM, especially if I have to shell out a 5 yr. contract probably worth millions to him.

 

One of Jonathan Cooper, Alex Okafor, D.J.Fluker is likely to be available then and I would prefer to get one of them.

 

WalterFootball's latest mock has us taking Jonathan Cooper in the 1st and Brandon Jenkins in the 3rd.  I wish we could just click a button to make that happen.

 

** edit, I just realized Walterfootball also just added a 4th round to their mock and they have us taking Kwame Geathers.  While I don't necessarily think NT is a position of need, if he could also play 5tech or even 3tech then that'd be fantastic.

[gbrads_rants]

I had no idea watson was going to declare....DUDE IS A FREAK OF NATURE!!! I wouldnt mind having him on the team...but again I assumed he'd stay at FSU for another year.

[GrizzColt]

WalterFootball's latest mock has us taking Jonathan Cooper in the 1st and Brandon Jenkins in the 3rd.  I wish we could just click a button to make that happen.

 

** edit, I just realized Walterfootball also just added a 4th round to their mock and they have us taking Kwame Geathers.  While I don't necessarily think NT is a position of need, if he could also play 5tech or even 3tech then that'd be fantastic.

 

Solomon Grundy.  Nice.

[SupermanLuck12]

Maybe Grigson can strap up and play tackle for us?

[GrizzColt]

Here's an interesting article about him.

 

http://sportsillustr...tson/index.html

[chad72]

While I agree with you in theory, yesterday I found a terrible scouting report on Okafor from the National Post that would definitely scare me away from him.  They have him as the 199th best player.  If one scout sees that in him, I don't call that safe.  

 

I trust Grigson to sort out those facts. But you get my point on Menelik Watson.

 

Antonio Gates was an UDFA, and worked out fine for being a basketball player since the position he played was TE.

 

Recent TEs that have played OL for the Colts include Charlie Johnson and Joe Reitz, run of the mill guys. Solid at best. I do think the basketball background translates better to "box out" principles employed by big bodied TEs like Gates and Gonzalez more than OL. So, I am not wowed by his athleticism because the position he will be playing will be an OL and chances are, mostly an ineligible receiver. If he is a DL, then yeah, he could be swatting balls but as an OL, I put more emphasis on strength, fluidity in movement, technique and production.   Not that his athleticism does not matter but I just think too much is being made about it.

 

Now, if he were a wrestler, we could have intriguing discussions about leverage and pad level.

[The Fish]

This stuff is so difficult for me to get into. 

 

Who knows.

[gbrads_rants]

He's a natural OT in my opinion....nowadays the tackles have to be more athletic...Edge rushers are becoming bigger and faster...he's the prototype fo what teams should want in the future.

[coltsfanatic24]

he's good but i would like to get matt elam.

[GrizzColt]

I trust Grigson to sort out those facts. But you get my point on Menelik Watson.
 
Antonio Gates was an UDFA, and worked out fine for being a basketball player since the position he played was TE.
 
Recent TEs that have played OL for the Colts include Charlie Johnson and Joe Reitz, run of the mill guys. Solid at best. I do think the basketball background translates better to "box out" principles employed by big bodied TEs like Gates and Gonzalez more than OL. So, I am not wowed by his athleticism because the position he will be playing will be an OL and chances are, mostly an ineligible receiver. If he is a DL, then yeah, he could be swatting balls but as an OL, I put more emphasis on strength, fluidity in movement, technique and production.   Not that his athleticism does not matter but I just think too much is being made about it.
 
Now, if he were a wrestler, we could have intriguing discussions about leverage and pad level.

Agree 100% about wrestlers. Roddy White was a top wrestler and it shows.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Sounds like I just heard "Guns Hochuli" state "Indianapolis is reporting that number 71 is an eligible receiver."  With great hands...a 320 pound TE at goal line......  As our friend Princeton Tiger says:  "Interesting."  

 

 

Wow!

 

 

 

[haseo15]

He must have spelled Matt Elam wrong...

[Brian Casserly]

Has Kiper (who the h*ll is Mel Kiper) EVER called our 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th round selection correctly (more than 15:00 minutes before our pick)?

[Voir Dire]

Pretty sure he nailed it last year when he went out on a limb and said we'd take Luck.


Other than that, I don't think he has been very good at guessing our picks.

[trailertrash]

It still states that he is raw and has to be coached up. So, essentially, he is a project that you have to take a bit of a chance on and not a 4 yr. starter, or even a 3 yr. starter. In a draft where we have picks 1, 3, and 4 and not a 2nd, a project is not what I would want to invest a 1st rounder on, personally.

 

If he is around for the 2nd round pick and we had one, I would not have minded it but not for a first round pick. Sorry, it will not fly with me as a GM, especially if I have to shell out a 5 yr. contract probably worth millions to him.

 

One of Jonathan Cooper, Alex Okafor, D.J.Fluker is likely to be available then and I would prefer to get one of them.

You criticize a guy for being a project, and then list Okafor and Fluker as a potential 1ST ROUND PICK!? Ladies and gentlemen, this is why Chad72 is NOT a GM!

[chad72]

You criticize a guy for being a project, and then list Okafor and Fluker as a potential 1ST ROUND PICK!? Ladies and gentlemen, this is why Chad72 is NOT a GM!

 

Hahaha, funny, no one here is a GM, everyone is giving opinions. Did I say I was a GM?

 

If you have a differing opinion, that is fine, I will agree to disagree.

[BrentMc11]

Has Kiper (who the h*ll is Mel Kiper) EVER called our 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th round selection correctly (more than 15:00 minutes before our pick)?

Your inner Bill Tobin coming out again I see 

[GrizzColt]

Just think.  Kiper's job is to predict what others are going to do and that is impossible.  None of us could do that, so he is basically set up to fail.  So, what he has to do (come tv time) is come across as mortified and indignant when they don't choose who he selects. He does that pretty well.  There may be better evaluators out there, but I think he's pretty good at what he does.   

[chad72]

Just think.  Kiper's job is to predict what others are going to do and that is impossible.  None of us could do that, so he is basically set up to fail.  So, what he has to do (come tv time) is come across as mortified and indignant when they don't choose who he selects. He does that pretty well.  There may be better evaluators out there, but I think he's pretty good at what he does.   

 

 

He does have good hair gel .

[GrizzColt]

He does have good hair gel .

 

Yes, he does.  Does Lucas Oil have a hair product that Mel can advertise?  He needs a funny commercial.  I bet he would be good at it. 

[Gavin]

 Kiper you crack me up with these ideas of yours, its like you woke up one morning and said "oh I wanna really take a shot in the dark and predict this kid is a first round talent" Hey taking nothing away from Watson and I may very well eat crow for my thoughts about him going in the first round and being worth it after 1 year but I think its a ridiculous reach

[GrizzColt]

Wednesday morning, NFL Draft guru Mel Kiper, Jr. released an updated mock draft that featured three Florida State juniors -- Bjoern Werner, Menelik Watson and Xavier Rhodes -- in the first round. The placement of Werner (6th) and Rhodes (28th) in the draft's initial round weren't all that surprising -- most draft experts have them slotted somewhere in the first 32 picks -- but Watson at No. 24 was a bit surprising. Not because he isn't talented and doesn't have tremendous upside but because Watson's overall football experience is limited.

 

But that hasn't stopped Kiper from continuing to sing Watson's praises. Here's what he added Wednesday afternoon in a chat hosted by ESPN:

 

[GrizzColt]

Also, I read an article on an FSU board stating that he is 25 years old, so he pretty much needs to go pro now.

[trailertrash]

Hahaha, funny, no one here is a GM, everyone is giving opinions. Did I say I was a GM?

 

If you have a differing opinion, that is fine, I will agree to disagree.

Sorry if I was rude, but wasn't sure if you actually suggested spending our only high pick (a crucial one at that) on players like Okafor or Fluker. I wouldn't get mad if Grigson selected this kid but guys like Okafor or Fluker? Fluker is by FAR, and it's not even close, the most overrated, garbage OLineman in this draft. Lacks great quickness, his size at Tackle is a concern. Lacks for physical AND technical skills. Questionable character to go along with even more questionable work ethic. We can differ in opinions about whether or not Watson is a good 1st round pick, but selecting guys like Okafor or Fluker is that type of irrational move you'd expect out of the Polians (maybe not Bill) but not Grigson. 

 

As far as Watson goes, the only knock on him is his lack of experience, even though it didn't play a significant factor this year, as he was one of the best O-linemen in the ACC this year.

 

On the other side, here are his positives:

• GREAT height (6'6 and 1/2)
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• GREAT size (320 pounds)
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• GREAT strength (just look at the picture for crying out loud)
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• GREAT quickness (former boxer, basketball player and soccer player [Luck, anyone?])
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• GREAT work ethic (read any article on him), and best of all
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• GREAT drive (grew up in poverty, and the dream to escape [Andrew McCutchen, anyone?]. 
•  

Normally I prefer if teams wouldn't draft guys in the 1st round simply based on their potential (projects in other words, guys like Dontari Poe come to mind), but when you have a guy like Watson, it's really hard to resist. Would I be mad if we got a guy like Rhodes, Cooper, B Jones, Richardson instead of him? No, not really. But we got a guys, that some of the . on NFL.com suggest like Jesse Williams etc, I will spam YouTube like there's  no tomorrow!!!!!!

[Gavin]

Have you even watched Okafor? you go ahead and draft a project player based on potential in Watson, Ill stick with guy that produced such as Okafor did

[BrentMc11]

Yes, he does.  Does Lucas Oil have a hair product that Mel can advertise?  He needs a funny commercial.  I bet he would be good at it. 

HA HA!  If not GUMOUT does!!!  

[CjMcGirt23]

If I was a d-lineman I'd run away from Dj Fluker

 

 

I mean, not to be mean, but that's one ugly dude...no homosexuality..can't put the four letter version :/

[chad72]

This draft will really tell us what Grigson is made of.

 

It is definitely easier to get it right in the top 5 picks and it gets harder towards the latter part of the first round once you start winning. Add to the fact that we dont have a 2nd round pick, Grigson's evaluation pretty much starts with this 1st round pick if he wants to be on level with the Ozzie Newsome, Ted Thompson, Kevin Colbert, Jerry Reese etc. that pick late consistently and produce starters year in and year out.

 

Sorry if I was rude, but wasn't sure if you actually suggested spending our only high pick (a crucial one at that) on players like Okafor or Fluker. I wouldn't get mad if Grigson selected this kid but guys like Okafor or Fluker? Fluker is by FAR, and it's not even close, the most overrated, garbage OLineman in this draft. Lacks great quickness, his size at Tackle is a concern. Lacks for physical AND technical skills. Questionable character to go along with even more questionable work ethic. We can differ in opinions about whether or not Watson is a good 1st round pick, but selecting guys like Okafor or Fluker is that type of irrational move you'd expect out of the Polians (maybe not Bill) but not Grigson. 

 

As far as Watson goes, the only knock on him is his lack of experience, even though it didn't play a significant factor this year, as he was one of the best O-linemen in the ACC this year.

 

On the other side, here are his positives:

• GREAT height (6'6 and 1/2)
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• GREAT size (320 pounds)
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• GREAT strength (just look at the picture for crying out loud)
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• GREAT quickness (former boxer, basketball player and soccer player [Luck, anyone?])
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• GREAT work ethic (read any article on him), and best of all
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• GREAT drive (grew up in poverty, and the dream to escape [Andrew McCutchen, anyone?]. 
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Normally I prefer if teams wouldn't draft guys in the 1st round simply based on their potential (projects in other words, guys like Dontari Poe come to mind), but when you have a guy like Watson, it's really hard to resist. Would I be mad if we got a guy like Rhodes, Cooper, B Jones, Richardson instead of him? No, not really. But we got a guys, that some of the . on NFL.com suggest like Jesse Williams etc, I will spam YouTube like there's  no tomorrow!!!!!!

 

Now that you have explained yourself, it sounds better.

 

NTs/DTs, like the Poes & Jesse Williams you hinted, are the ones drafted most on potential and less on production, IMO, and that is one reason I'd rather find value in those picks in later rounds because value will match production then. Production, potential and durability will be important especially if we expect that 1st round pick to be a starter in year 1 or at the latest year 2. Polians have missed too many early round picks for us to miss any more.

[chad72]

If I was a d-lineman I'd run away from Dj Fluker

 

 

I mean, not to be mean, but that's one ugly dude...no homosexuality..can't put the four letter version :/

 

Isn't that what we want, DLs to run away from our OL? (j/k)

[HyToCrItE]

I think Watson is English... not that it matters in any way

[GrizzColt]

The difference is Dontari Poe was not a productive player college.  He played here in Memphis (Univ. of Memphis) and he was lame against inferior competition.  This Watson kid is being mentioned for having good production at FSU as well as being an excellent all around athlete.  I put him in Ezekiel Ansah's category.  Lots of talent and production, just not a lot of experience.    

[BrentMc11]

I think Watson is English... not that it matters in any way

He will scare the de-fence away.....my lourde......and will kick the football into the net

[loudnproudcolt]

When you are talking a lot of talent without much much experience, the latest guy who comes to mind was Jason Piere Paul, who the Giants took a few years back at #15 or #16 I believe. I believe he had only started playing football in college, and only 3 years at S. Florida. Freak of an athlete who had a great sophmore season, tailed off in junior season but due to injuries as I remember. I never want to draft someone on pure potential, but Giants took the gamble on potential and what they saw Sophmore season, and I think they are pretty happy. But it is a gamble, no doubt.