24 replies to this topic

[cmgww]

I don't recall seeing this mentioned too much...but strictly from an Xs and Os standpoint, is it any coincidence that the Colts played probably their most complete game of the season with Pagano back on the sidelines?
A few things to think about...

-Throw out the Bears game (first time for everyone), and really all 3 games under Pagano before his break...though it's worth noting we held AP in check in week 2...
-The defense played one of its best games of the season, with the interior DTs being dudes off the street. AND they seemed to get better as the game progressed. Adjustments were made, Foster was pretty much shut down (by own standards, holding him to under 100 yards and 1 TD is pretty decent), and the D came up with big plays against a GOOD TEAM (i.e. not the Jags/Titans)
-The 9 minute drive. We ran it down the Texans throats. They knew it, and couldn't stop it. Do we do that with Arians' coaching? Not sure. I think Pagano had the final say on making that drive mostly runs. Arians called a great drive, with timely passes to move the chains.

I'm not taking anything away from Arians. He did a great job getting this team where they are. But my thought is, having Pagano back allowed Arians to focus on the offense, and gave us an extra set of eyes (good ones) to make adjustments on D. Again, I am talking from an Xs and Os point of view. We all knew the team would play hard for the coach. I saw a team with a good HC that had a great gameplan against a top tier team.

Everyone kept saying "The Colts haven't played a full game all season, except against the Jags". Is it coincidence that they did when Pagano returned? I think his defensive minded attitude really helped that side of the ball. And it freed Arians up to just focus on his baby, the offense. Just something to think over....

[cmgww]

I don't recall seeing this mentioned too much...but strictly from an Xs and Os standpoint, is it any coincidence that the Colts played probably their most complete game of the season with Pagano back on the sidelines?
A few things to think about...

-Throw out the Bears game (first time for everyone), and really all 3 games under Pagano before his break...though it's worth noting we held AP in check in week 2...
-The defense played one of its best games of the season, with the interior DTs being dudes off the street. AND they seemed to get better as the game progressed. Adjustments were made, Foster was pretty much shut down (by own standards, holding him to under 100 yards and 1 TD is pretty decent), and the D came up with big plays against a GOOD TEAM (i.e. not the Jags/Titans)
-The 9 minute drive. We ran it down the Texans throats. They knew it, and couldn't stop it. Do we do that with Arians' coaching? Not sure. I think Pagano had the final say on making that drive mostly runs. Arians called a great drive, with timely passes to move the chains.

I'm not taking anything away from Arians. He did a great job getting this team where they are. But my thought is, having Pagano back allowed Arians to focus on the offense, and gave us an extra set of eyes (good ones) to make adjustments on D. Again, I am talking from an Xs and Os point of view. We all knew the team would play hard for the coach. I saw a team with a good HC that had a great gameplan against a top tier team.

Everyone kept saying "The Colts haven't played a full game all season, except against the Jags". Is it coincidence that they did when Pagano returned? I think his defensive minded attitude really helped that side of the ball. And it freed Arians up to just focus on his baby, the offense. Just something to think over....

[PrincetonTiger]

interesting points

[shakedownstreet]

wow interesting

[FireJimCaldwell]

I believe there was a surge of energy in his return, so to me that played a part in it.

 

Anytime someone has fewer responsibilities(Arians) more time can be put into whatever they are concentrating on. 

Arians might have handled that drive differently. It's really hard to say.

 When they were hired, I felt that Pagano's mindset and Arians mindset were contradictory to each other, which isn't really a horrible thing. It's just a matter of finding that fine line of perfection.

[PrincetonTiger]

I believe there was a surge of energy in his return, so to me that played a part in it.

 

Anytime someone has fewer responsibilities(Arians) more time can be put into whatever they are concentrating on. 

Arians might have handled that drive differently. It's really hard to say.

 When they were hired, I felt that Pagano's mindset and Arians mindset were contradictory to each other, which isn't really a horrible thing. It's just a matter of finding that fine line of perfection.

off topic but this is why I hate when HC takes on playcalling duties

[FireJimCaldwell]

off topic but this is why I hate when HC takes on playcalling duties

I can see that point of view. To me play-calling is something that some people can do and some just can't.  Some fly against the wind and go with their gut and it works and some try to make calculated decisions based on scouting and it doesn't. Sometimes it comes down to a lack of execution. Obviously there are examples of the opposites of each of those as well. 

Play-calling can be tricky.  

[PrincetonTiger]

I can see that point of view. To me play-calling is something that some people can do and some just can't.  Some fly against the wind and go with their gut and it works and some try to make calculated decisions based on scouting and it doesn't. Sometimes it comes down to a lack of execution. Obviously there are examples of the opposites of each of those as well. 

Play-calling can be tricky.  

Yes

my high school coach and mentor was a wing T guru and didn't trust anyone with playcalling. The year would start out with the OC or another assistant calling the plays but by the end of the game he would be calling the game without the help of the booth.

[cmgww]

I just saw what the future may hold. Pagano focusing on D and the overall gameplan, and Arians free to focus on the O...it was one game, I know, and against Baltimore we'll get a better picture. And next season, IF Arians stays. Despite all the "let him walk" talk, I for one think that keeping Arians is a priority. For one reason, continuity. Grigson will address the line, and with a better line this offense will click much better. Throw in a new OC, and Luck and all the young guys have to learn a new system, and Wayne only has a few years left. Again, just something to mull over. I think with Pagano in charge again, Arians adjusts more (Pagano will force him to, see that last drive for example. I think that was Pagano telling Arians to RUN THE DANG BALL!!)

[chad72]

http://forums.colts....-just-being-oc/

 

That was kinda what I inferred to in the above thread.

[PrincetonTiger]

http://forums.colts....-just-being-oc/

 

That was kinda what I inferred to in the above thread.

i missed that thread

[FireJimCaldwell]

Yes

my high school coach and mentor was a wing T guru and didn't trust anyone with playcalling. The year would start out with the OC or another assistant calling the plays but by the end of the game he would be calling the game without the help of the booth.

That happens.

 

I watched a high school coach bring in a DC....  The HC always preferred running a 50front. 5-2... call it what you want. The DC came from a higher level school, ran a 4-3, and was basically just moving back home. 

 

Well it started off with the team running a pure 4-3... They were winning... Then came the time at the white board... "What if you knock your tackle down to either eye of the center, move the end over to a 5, and walk this backer up to a 9..  That's a good look.."

 

He shifted the 4-3 to a 5-2 look just because that was what he was stuck on.  The DC didn't last long, went back to school for administration, and is now pulling in 6 figures as a superintendent. 

 

Some want the control and refuse to give it up. 

[TKnight85]

I think Arians called one of his BEST Games this Sunday. Either that, or the Player's just executed them that well. Or Both. Probably both lol

[PrincetonTiger]

That happens.

 

I watched a high school coach bring in a DC....  The HC always preferred running a 50front. 5-2... call it what you want. The DC came from a higher level school, ran a 4-3, and was basically just moving back home. 

 

Well it started off with the team running a pure 4-3... They were winning... Then came the time at the white board... "What if you knock your tackle down to either eye of the center, move the end over to a 5, and walk this backer up to a 9..  That's a good look.."

 

He shifted the 4-3 to a 5-2 look just because that was what he was stuck on.  The DC didn't last long, went back to school for administration, and is now pulling in 6 figures as a superintendent. 

 

Some want the control and refuse to give it up. 

Coach had ran the Wing T for years and knew what he wanted 

[PrincetonTiger]

I think Arians called one of his BEST Games this Sunday. Either that, or the Player's just executed them that well. Or Both. Probably both lol

agreed

[FireJimCaldwell]

Coach had ran the Wing T for years and knew what he wanted 

Same here with the 50 defense... Some old dogs refuse to learn new tricks. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Same here with the 50 defense... Some old dogs refuse to learn new tricks. 

In my situation the assistants didn't know how to call a wing T offense. 

[FireJimCaldwell]

In my situation the assistants didn't know how to call a wing T offense. 

In high school sometimes the Head Coach has to coach up the assistants before they can coach the kids.  Over the years, former players would come back as assistants so that there was some continuity.   I was surprised when they finally abandoned the split-back veer, and actually ran the spread and threw the ball more than 5 times.  

[Warhorse]

So Manusky suddenly "gets it" when Pagano is there? I agree that there is an emotional lift that could occur, but as far as the defense, Greg runs that.

 

Bruce calling getter on O when he is just the OC is obviously a boon.

[Dudley Smith]

I just saw what the future may hold. Pagano focusing on D and the overall gameplan, and Arians free to focus on the O...it was one game, I know, and against Baltimore we'll get a better picture. And next season, IF Arians stays. Despite all the "let him walk" talk, I for one think that keeping Arians is a priority. For one reason, continuity. Grigson will address the line, and with a better line this offense will click much better. Throw in a new OC, and Luck and all the young guys have to learn a new system, and Wayne only has a few years left. Again, just something to mull over. I think with Pagano in charge again, Arians adjusts more (Pagano will force him to, see that last drive for example. I think that was Pagano telling Arians to RUN THE DANG BALL!!)

 

I agree with you in regards to keeping Arians. I think it should be a priority, and I think once the OL is vastly improved in the offseason that Luck could be lethal in this offense with extra time to throw. However, this wasn't the first time Arians called for multiple run plays to end the game. I believe the final drive of the Cleveland game towards the start of the season Arians called multiple run plays to end the game. So I am not sure if that really was Pagano, although I agree that overall the playcalling was better on the day in its entirety.

[PrincetonTiger]

In high school sometimes the Head Coach has to coach up the assistants before they can coach the kids.  Over the years, former players would come back as assistants so that there was some continuity.   I was surprised when they finally abandoned the split-back veer, and actually ran the spread and threw the ball more than 5 times.

that is what I did

[JoKeR]

I would think OCs and DCs make specific play calls calls but the HC dictates what the team is trying to do. HCs have the biggest say in situational football.

[NJColtsFan]

I thought one of the biggest differences I saw was in the early stages of the game (first or second drive) where Luck was throwing rhe short stuff. Very effective play calling. Did Pagano have any input in that planning? I would think so?

I would love to see Pagano, Ariens , and Manusky together for a full season. Could be a very good staff put together by Grigs. Pagano has his guys ready to run through walls for him.
-d.

[GoColts8818]

I think it is more we are seeing Luck grow up before our eyes than anything else.  Frankly dating back to the first Texans game Luck has been throwing more shorter passes and I think it's because he's doing a better job reading his check downs.  If you look at most of the deep passes during the season there was only one or two guys going deep on those players everyone else was underneath.  Luck was just not throwing them the ball.  That's decision making by the QB not so much coaching.  With that said it's not a reason to go off on Luck either because it's what rookie QBs do.  The good ones grow out of it and I think that is what is happening with Luck. 

 

Again, I go back to the Turning Point video for the Packers game.  They showed a play in that game where Luck threw across his body to Wayne in double coverage in the back of the endzone with a wide open Donald Brown running underneath.  When he got to the sidelines the first thing Arians did was grab him and say "Never throw that pass again, you had Donald running underneath if you hit him he's down at the two and we are going in for the score."  So I think there is something to the theory that Fouts floated in the Lions game that Luck doesn't like to throw the ball short.  With that said again Luck is a rookie QB and this is not a reason to panic. 

 

Honestly we are seeing great growth from Luck in the past month.  He really hasn't thrown a pick in a month.  The two he threw in the Titans game don't really count.  One was a hail marry at the end of the half.  The other one was with his knee down.  Granted bad decision made by Luck but it really looks like Luck has learned his lesson since then and hasn't made the same mistake since even though he's been in those spots since then.  His decision making is getting much better. 

[PrincetonTiger]

I would think OCs and DCs make specific play calls calls but the HC dictates what the team is trying to do. HCs have the biggest say in situational football.

agreed