138 replies to this topic

[oldunclemark]

Adrian Peterson..will rush for 2,000 yards..but if Minnesota is not in the post-season..what is he the MVP of...?

Christian Ponder's numbers are bad mouthed..but they are as good as Jay Cutler...

..and his game is not the issue....you cant be MVP based on how bad you think your teammates are.




I know that OJ Simpson was MVP and his team didnt make the playoffs.

But only 8 teams made the playoffs in the 1970s...12 do now..if you dont get in now, you're no good

..and OJ gained 2,000 yards in 14 games..not 16....Adrian Peterson is not OJ.

[Holden89]

Well, if Minnesota wins they're in, so.  AP has a good shot

[Susie Q]

Well... I believe if the Vikings win Sunday they have a pretty good shot at making the playoffs... Sooo.....?

That's a Big  IF  considering they are playing the Packers.   just teasing you friend.

[oldunclemark]

Well, if Minnesota wins they're in, so.  AP has a good shot

He'll never beat out Peyton Manning......34 TDs, 4,300 yards....on 68% passing......13-3

in his FIRST SEASON in Denver..taking over a team that LOST 4 of its last 6 last year

That's an MVP...

[dynasty13]

Adrian Peterson..will rush for 2,000 yards..but if Minnesota is not in the post-season..what is he the MVP of...?

Christian Ponder's numbers are bad mouthed..but they are as good as Jay Cutler...

..and his game is not the issue....you cant be MVP based on how bad you think your teammates are.




I know that OJ Simpson was MVP and his team didnt make the playoffs.

But only 8 teams made the playoffs in the 1970s...12 do now..if you dont get in now, you're no good

..and OJ gained 2,000 yards in 14 games..not 16....Adrian Peterson is not OJ.

 

 

Why are you trying so hard to undermine what Adrian Peterson has been able to do? Are you that worried about making a push for Peyton Manning to win another one that you have to make up reasons for why the other nominees are undeserving? 

 

I know its a popular sentiment to say that a player cant be MVP if the team doesnt make the playoffs....but in Peterson's case, isn't it even more impressive that he is the sole reason for that team to even be relevant and still have a shot at the playoffs? Without him, do you think they are even sniffing the post season? Yet here they are, still with a shot, and its because of him. Is that not exactly what the most valuable player is?

 

Think about the MVP in the big picture. Is it really that different if a player wins the MVP and their team loses in the wildcard round than if the team misses the post season by 1 game? 

[oldunclemark]

dynasty..Chris Johnson gained 2,000..was he MVP?

[Holden89]

I do agree that if AP doesn't break the record, it's Manning or Brady (at this point, I think Manning is in the lead)  However, I just don't like how people are undermining AP so much.  What he's doing is JUST as impressive as what Peyton did this year.

[GoPats]

Last year, lots of Indy fans thought the Broncos were primed to upset the Patriots in the playoffs and pumped them up to no end. Their defense was going to slow down the Patriots' offense enough so that Tebow could pull off some late game heroics.

 

This year, looking back, many seem to think that the 2011 Broncos somehow became the worst football squad ever assembled.

 

Funny how that works.

 

Anyway, on topic... there is no qualification that says that a guy's team HAS to make the playoffs in order to win the MVP. Does it help? Sure.

 

But the MVP is a regular season award. And would the Vikings be playing for a possible playoff berth without AP? No chance in a million years. The MVP is largely a "quarterback award" but giving it to AP this year would not be a travesty. There are probably three or four guys who have had great years and are deserving of it. 2012 isn't one of those years that it'll go to the "wrong" guy.

[oldunclemark]

Minnesota is NOT 9-6 because of Adrian Peterson.......He does not play defense.....


..and there's's no logic in arguing that a 9-7 non-playoff team has the league MVP at running back.....you all know that's nonsense.

[oldunclemark]

Last year, lots of Indy fans thought the Broncos were primed to upset the Patriots in the playoffs and pumped them up to no end. Their defense was going to slow down the Patriots' offense enough so that Tebow could pull off some late game heroics.
 
This year, looking back, many seem to think that the 2011 Broncos somehow became the worst football squad ever assembled.
 
Funny how that works.
 
Anyway, on topic... there is no qualification that says that a guy's team HAS to make the playoffs in order to win the MVP. Does it help? Sure.
 
But the MVP is a regular season award. And would the Vikings be playing for a possible playoff berth without AP? No chance in a million years. The MVP is largely a "quarterback award" but giving it to AP this year would not be a travesty. There are probably three or four guys who have had great years and are deserving of it. 2012 isn't one of those years that it'll go to the "wrong" guy.

Last year, lots of Indy fans thought the Broncos were primed to upset the Patriots in the playoffs and pumped them up to no end. Their defense was going to slow down the Patriots' offense enough so that Tebow could pull off some late game heroics.
 
This year, looking back, many seem to think that the 2011 Broncos somehow became the worst football squad ever assembled.
 
Funny how that works.
 
Anyway, on topic... there is no qualification that says that a guy's team HAS to make the playoffs in order to win the MVP. Does it help? Sure.
 
But the MVP is a regular season award. And would the Vikings be playing for a possible playoff berth without AP? No chance in a million years. The MVP is largely a "quarterback award" but giving it to AP this year would not be a travesty. There are probably three or four guys who have had great years and are deserving of it. 2012 isn't one of those years that it'll go to the "wrong" guy.

ould

Last year, lots of Indy fans thought the Broncos were primed to upset the Patriots in the playoffs and pumped them up to no end. Their defense was going to slow down the Patriots' offense enough so that Tebow could pull off some late game heroics.
 
This year, looking back, many seem to think that the 2011 Broncos somehow became the worst football squad ever assembled.
 
Funny how that works.
 
Anyway, on topic... there is no qualification that says that a guy's team HAS to make the playoffs in order to win the MVP. Does it help? Sure.
 
But the MVP is a regular season award. And would the Vikings be playing for a possible playoff berth without AP? No chance in a million years. The MVP is largely a "quarterback award" but giving it to AP this year would not be a travesty. There are probably three or four guys who have had great years and are deserving of it. 2012 isn't one of those years that it'll go to the "wrong" guy.

'possible playoff berth' what is that...??

12 teams make the playoffs...you make it or you dont....

The idea that Peterson carried Jared Allen and Percy Harvin is ludicrous

[dynasty13]

Minnesota is NOT 9-6 because of Adrian Peterson.......He does not play defense.....


..and there's's no logic in arguing that a 9-7 non-playoff team has the league MVP at running back.....you all know that's nonsense.

 

Peyton Manning doesn't play defense either...but Denver's has been pretty good. 

 

You say there no logic in arguing that a 9-7 non-playoff team has the league MVP at running back...well...let me ask you....is there any logic in arguing that a 10-6 playoff team has the league MVP at running back? I only ask because if that one game really does make a difference in how you view the MVP, then why are you campaigning so hard against him when the final record hasnt even been determined yet?

[Holden89]

Last year, lots of Indy fans thought the Broncos were primed to upset the Patriots in the playoffs and pumped them up to no end. Their defense was going to slow down the Patriots' offense enough so that Tebow could pull off some late game heroics.

 

This year, looking back, many seem to think that the 2011 Broncos somehow became the worst football squad ever assembled.

 

Funny how that works.

 

Anyway, on topic... there is no qualification that says that a guy's team HAS to make the playoffs in order to win the MVP. Does it help? Sure.

 

But the MVP is a regular season award. And would the Vikings be playing for a possible playoff berth without AP? No chance in a million years. The MVP is largely a "quarterback award" but giving it to AP this year would not be a travesty. There are probably three or four guys who have had great years and are deserving of it. 2012 isn't one of those years that it'll go to the "wrong" guy.

 

I'm pretty sure that was more Pats hate than Broncos love     The Broncos last year were not very good, and everyone knows it... They were, however, a QB away from being an Elite team. 

[oldunclemark]

Peyton Manning doesn't play defense either...but Denver's has been pretty good. 
 
You say there no logic in arguing that a 9-7 non-playoff team has the league MVP at running back...well...let me ask you....is there any logic in arguing that a 10-6 playoff team has the league MVP at running back? I only ask because if that one game really does make a difference in how you view the MVP, then why are you campaigning so hard against him when the final record hasnt even been determined yet?

He wont be MVP at 10-6 either..but no QB will be MVP without making the playoffs

I dont have to campaign....Its reality...you have have to face it...

Mante Teo wanst going to win the Heisman..its a QB award..QBs are more important than HBs.....

That's life inthe nFL

[GoPats]

ould
'possible playoff berth' what is that...??

12 teams make the playoffs...you make it or you dont....

The idea that Peterson carried Jared Allen and Percy Harvin is ludicrous

 

It's the final week of the regular season and they are playing for a spot in the playoffs. I'm not sure how else I can explain it? The Vikings are relevant after Christmas when more than half the league is, at this point, not.

 

Did Manning carry Von Miller this year?

 

Percy Harvin? Seriously? That only strengthens AP's candidacy. Harvin was a monster until he got hurt, but he's been out for what, two months now?

 

You guys know I'm not a Manning basher, but the collective mancrush is blinding people's objectivity here. I get it, he was the cornerstone of your team for a decade-plus. That doesn't mean the man poops golden eggs.

 

[GoPats]

I'm pretty sure that was more Pats hate than Broncos love     The Broncos last year were not very good, and everyone knows it... They were, however, a QB away from being an Elite team. 

 

They weren't elite by any means, no. And Manning has made guys like Thomas and Decker so much better. But the 2011 Broncos weren't awful by any stretch of the imagination. During the Courtship of Peyton Manning, Denver was usually the spot where everyone said, "if he goes there, he'll be choosing the most complete team" among his suitors.

[oldunclemark]

It's the final week of the regular season and they are playing for a spot in the playoffs. I'm not sure how else I can explain it? The Vikings are relevant after Christmas when more than half the league is, at this point, not.
 
Did Manning carry Von Miller this year?
 
Percy Harvin? Seriously? That only strengthens AP's candidacy. Harvin was a monster until he got hurt, but he's been out for what, two months now?
 
You guys know I'm not a Manning basher, but the collective mancrush is blinding people's objectivity here. I get it, he was the cornerstone of your team for a decade-plus. That doesn't mean the man poops golden eggs.



Snark aside..Tom Brady is more the MVP than Peterson......stick with the subject....running back..non playoff team.
Say what you really think...you're allowed
 

[oldunclemark]

You cannot be MVP at running back on a non-playoff team./You all know that.

was Chris Johnson MVP? How come Calvin Johnson isnt in the running.

I think we know those answers.

peterson for MVP is media hype

[PrincetonTiger]

He should win something

[dynasty13]

You cannot be MVP at running back on a non-playoff team./You all know that.

was Chris Johnson MVP? How come Calvin Johnson isnt in the running.

I think we know those answers.

peterson for MVP is media hype

 

Ya'll were calling for Luck to be in the MVP discussion back in week 10!!! When the Colts were what...6-3? 

[GoPats]

Snark aside..Tom Brady is more the MVP than Peterson......stick with the subject....running back..non playoff team.
Say what you really think...you're allowed
 

 

Generally speaking, yes, those are the unwritten "rules."

 

There have been exceptions to both (non-playoff team winner, non-QB named MVP).

 

CJ2K was on a non-competitive team. Megatron is on a non-competitive team. The VIkings are still in it. I think that's the fundamental difference.

 

Does anyone know when the vote actually takes place? They announce it prior to the SB, but do writers/media vote, like, after this weekend or something?

[PrincetonTiger]

Generally speaking, yes, those are the unwritten "rules."

 

There have been exceptions to both (non-playoff team winner, non-QB named MVP).

 

CJ2K was on a non-competitive team. Megatron is on a non-competitive team. The VIkings are still in it. I think that's the fundamental difference.

 

Does anyone know when the vote actually takes place? They announce it prior to the SB, but do writers/media vote, like, after this weekend or something?

I agree with your first few statement but unsure about your question(Would like to know)

[Yehoodi]

Minnesota is NOT 9-6 because of Adrian Peterson.......He does not play defense.....


..and there's's no logic in arguing that a 9-7 non-playoff team has the league MVP at running back.....you all know that's nonsense.

Does Brady, Rodgers, Brees or Manning play defense? . . . so why should they get the MVP award? And speaking of defense why should a offensive player, who is not breaking the bank in the stats department - well at least with respect to his peers, get an MVP when he has a top 5 defense on the other side of the ball . . . you might want to remember your thoughts of Brady's contribution to his team '01-'06 before answering to be able to give your honest unbias opinion on this matter . . .

and the 9-5 '73 Bills, who missed the playoffs by one game, had an mvp in OJ . . .

and finally the last time i checked the broncos won the division last year with a QB 30 teams would not even want on his roster . . .not to mention the fact that he was 7-4 with the broncos . . . so this is the baseline of the most recent, and therefore most accurate, gauge on the broncos . . .

and finally 2, Wilson and Luck have 10 wins with their new team and RGIII has 9 wins with his new team . . . so so much for the "new" team gotta win one for the gipper discussion . . .

[Yehoodi]

ould
'possible playoff berth' what is that...??

12 teams make the playoffs...you make it or you dont....

The idea that Peterson carried Jared Allen and Percy Harvin is ludicrous

With the broncos team last year at 7-4 with Tebow, who is carry who in denver last year and this year, if anyone?

[Thewholefnshow28]

To sit here and say that AD is not the main reason that team is even able to sniff the playoffs is just blind homerism towards Peyton. AD is the only legitimate offensive weapon that team has and he carries that offense every single week and every single defense knows they just have to stop him and they win. Yet, not a single defense has really been able to stop him and he is close to breaking an all time record. How that does not define MVP is beyond me.

You sit here and say that AD does not play defense so it is just not him getting the Vikings into the playoffs, but the same can be said for Peyton. He has a top tier defense and they helped get the Broncos to the playoffs last year.

If we are going to play the game of discrediting MVP candidates you can easily do that with Peyton because how is he really that valuable to the Broncos when he has got the team the same place Tim Tebow did?

AD defines what the MVP award is supposed to be and if they give it to him then I have no problem with him getting it. I actually rather see him get it then Manning or Brady.

[supremecoltsfan300]

The games the vikings have won have been in large part to their defense. AP has put up great numbers but he hasnt been the reason they won. Last week, he did nothing, but they beat the texans because of that defense playing great.

[dynasty13]

The games the vikings have won have been in large part to their defense. AP has put up great numbers but he hasnt been the reason they won. Last week, he did nothing, but they beat the texans because of that defense playing great.

 

I've noticed something over the years. Colts fans are literally incapable of giving credit to another player if it means hurting the perception of Peyton Manning or his chances at winning some award. All those years ago when we were having Brady vs Manning debates, everyone wearing speed blue would claim it was defense defense defense that won those Patriots titles and Tom Brady didnt do squat. Now the same thing when others are trying to build a case for Adrian Peterson. 

 

When Peyton Manning wins, its completely because of him. No help....all on him. Everything he touches turns to gold. Whenever another player wins or does something good, there has to be some excuse or some other explanation for how they could possibly have done it. 

[chad72]

Gosh, I love Peyton but this subjectivity can be over the top!!!

 

I am a big Peyton fan but I want AP to win it because if Christian Ponder were any good, AP would be on top of the vote getter list, IMO and the Vikes could be fighting for the division, not the wild card. Very much like what LT did in 2006 with Rivers having a good year as well, and Shaun Alexander winning it in 2005 with Matt Hasselback having a good year as well.

[oldunclemark]

Gosh, I love Peyton but this subjectivity can be over the top!!!
 
I am a big Peyton fan but I want AP to win it because if Christian Ponder were any good, AP would be on top of the vote getter list, IMO and the Vikes could be fighting for the division, not the wild card. Very much like what LT did in 2006 with Rivers having a good year as well, and Shaun Alexander winning it in 2005 with Matt Hasselback having a good year as well.

.'IFs' are nice but the reality is they will be 10-6 or 9-7..and the No. 6 seed

...Manning and Brady are have very, very good years...and Manning has made stars out of Thomas and Decker (doubling their numbers) while keeping Jacob Tamme employed in the NFL...

He has turned arounnd the offense of a team crumbled down the stretch in 2011...losing 4 of 6 to end the year/

With Manning, they will finish with the AFC's best record,

If the QBs name wasnt Peyton Manning, there would be no question about this

[oldunclemark]

Does Brady, Rodgers, Brees or Manning play defense? . . . so why should they get the MVP award? And speaking of defense why should a offensive player, who is not breaking the bank in the stats department - well at least with respect to his peers, get an MVP when he has a top 5 defense on the other side of the ball . . . you might want to remember your thoughts of Brady's contribution to his team '01-'06 before answering to be able to give your honest unbias opinion on this matter . . .

and the 9-5 '73 Bills, who missed the playoffs by one game, had an mvp in OJ . . .

and finally the last time i checked the broncos won the division last year with a QB 30 teams would not even want on his roster . . .not to mention the fact that he was 7-4 with the broncos . . . so this is the baseline of the most recent, and therefore most accurate, gauge on the broncos . . .


and finally 2, Wilson and Luck have 10 wins with their new team and RGIII has 9 wins with his new team . . . so so much for the "new" team gotta win one for the gipper discussion . . .

CHECK AGAIN..in 2011, Denver was 9-9..and they lost 4 of their last 6 ......now they are 13-3

Wilson. Luck and RG3 are not in the running for MVP because they are not that good yet.

If they had Peyton Manning or Tom Brady numbers, they would be.

You're buying the hype.....a running back on a non-playoff team cant be the MVP...and everybody knows it

[ViriLudant]

Broncos' defense is just as important to their success this season as Peyton, so I can't see how Peyton is the MVP.

AP should be MVP.

[jahsoul]

Broncos' defense is just as important to their success this season as Peyton, so I can't see how Peyton is the MVP.

AP should be MVP.

How quick people forget that everyone was saying the defense was the only reason they made it to the playoffs last year. This year, they are automatically irrelevant?

[ViriLudant]

I've noticed something over the years. Colts fans are literally incapable of giving credit to another player if it means hurting the perception of Peyton Manning or his chances at winning some award. All those years ago when we were having Brady vs Manning debates, everyone wearing speed blue would claim it was defense defense defense that won those Patriots titles and Tom Brady didnt do squat. Now the same thing when others are trying to build a case for Adrian Peterson.

When Peyton Manning wins, its completely because of him. No help....all on him. Everything he touches turns to gold. Whenever another player wins or does something good, there has to be some excuse or some other explanation for how they could possibly have done it.

Dear god, this.

The amount of revisionist history that goes on here is amazing.
Peyton carried the Colts! Yep, he never had an o-line, never had a defense, etc. It was all Peyton, all the time.

[ViriLudant]

How quick people forget that everyone was saying the defense was the only reason they made it to the playoffs last year. This year, they are automatically irrelevant?

Shhhhhhhhh.
Peyton carries that team with its outstanding defense.

[stat2883]

Eh...the only problem I have with the premise of this thread is making the absolute statement that a RB "can't" win MVP if they aren't on a playoff team.

 

Barry Sanders rushed for over 2000 yards in '97 on a 9-7 team, but because the rest of the NFC was pretty mediocre they happened to squeak into the playoffs.  I'd have to think though that even if they hadn't, Sanders would still have won it that year.  Of course, that's all speculation, much like many of the statements in this thread itself. 

[Jules]

Peterson sucks. So does Brady. So does Rodgers.

 

Manning transcends sports. Manning is the GOAT. Manning deserves the MVP. Manning is the best. Manning is the MVP. Manning is the GOAT. Peyton Manning does it all.

 

 

Oh Gosh....that drink they just gave me IS strong. I wonder what time we meet up again next week.

[Susie Q]

Peterson sucks. So does Brady. So does Rodgers.

 

Manning transcends sports. Manning is the GOAT. Manning deserves the MVP. Manning is the best. Manning is the MVP. Manning is the GOAT. Peyton Manning does it all.

 

 

Oh Gosh....that drink they just gave me IS strong. I wonder what time we meet up again next week.

I think you got your point across what ever it was. Ya think.

[Jules]

The reality is though I would not vote for Peterson, Brady or Manning if I had a vote. I would still vote for Rodgers. I feel Rodgers is more MVP worthy then last year and if you are missing your top 2 defensive players for most of the year and your o line is constantly getting you pummeled PLUS constant injuries at WR and inconsistency at RB.....

 

Yeah.

 

But, he is getting little to no buzz this year. Might be a blessing though for him since MVP has always been a bit of a jinx to me. Again, not since Warner has an MVP also won the SB.

[John Dee]

By this logic Luck is aslo a candidate...    And I am serious... 

 

Most Valuable Player....     Def  ..."the player judged to be the most important to the sport"

 

I look at teams and then look at what that QB does for THAT TEAM?

 

Jules is spot on in pointing out GB's flaws and the fact that Rodgers is a legit candidate.    Same for Luck.   GB and Indy are flawed football teams currently.     Their QB's have kept them afloat.  

 

EVERY other team in the NFL that is in playoff contention has "something" going for them that makes them special other than QB.   

 

If someone took over for Peyton in Denver I still believer they are a playoff caliber team...   they were last season with Tebow.

 

Washington didn't slow down a step with KirkC at QB, SF has a monster running game and D, same for Seattle, HOU, NE, and Atl.

 

I agree with you Jules Rodgers probably is the choice.    and I vote Luck second.     

 

 

 

 

 

The reality is though I would not vote for Peterson, Brady or Manning if I had a vote. I would still vote for Rodgers. I feel Rodgers is more MVP worthy then last year and if you are missing your top 2 defensive players for most of the year and your o line is constantly getting you pummeled PLUS constant injuries at WR and inconsistency at RB.....

 

Yeah.

 

But, he is getting little to no buzz this year. Might be a blessing though for him since MVP has always been a bit of a jinx to me. Again, not since Warner has an MVP also won the SB.

[John Dee]

I thought RG3 was the greatest of all time?  

Peterson sucks. So does Brady. So does Rodgers.

 

Manning transcends sports. Manning is the GOAT. Manning deserves the MVP. Manning is the best. Manning is the MVP. Manning is the GOAT. Peyton Manning does it all.

 

 

Oh Gosh....that drink they just gave me IS strong. I wonder what time we meet up again next week.

[Jules]

I thought RG3 was the greatest of all time?  

 

 

Oh yes, you are right. I forgot about RG3 and how he is revolutionizing the QB position now and for the future.

 

And to be honest, I actually DO like RG3 more then I used to as the year goes on.