Luck snubbed for Pro Bowl in favour of Schaub.

[Matugi]

How does that argument work exactly lol.

Just because one excells at something doesn't mean the other isn't good.

People are stating a case of Andrews worthiness, and unless your being biased, his comebacks deserve to be mentioned. Just like his passing yards. That's part of what makes Andrew special.

You can discuss the merits and how meaningful the comebacks and yards have been. But acting like they are meaningLESS is silly. We are a 10 win team, so it's not as if he racked up all these yards in garbage time. Or that the comebacks didn't earn us a significant amount of wins.

It's a logical converse.

People want to prop up Luck, deservedly so, for his comeback wins, but that is not a merit against which you can judge all quarterbacks because each situation is different. Last year, Eli Manning was the comeback king, but still wouldn't argue that he was better than Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers last year. Manning, much like Luck, put himself in situations in which he had to comeback.

[thecardiacrll]

It's a logical converse.

People want to prop up Luck, deservedly so, for his comeback wins, but that is not a merit against which you can judge all quarterbacks because each situation is different. Last year, Eli Manning was the comeback king, but still wouldn't argue that he was better than Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers last year. Manning, much like Luck, put himself in situations in which he had to comeback.

Excellent point...AND YOU CAN SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE COMEBACK MAGIC DOESNT HAPPEN.....ALA ELI THIS SEASON. You gotta be able to put games away where you don't have to comeback. Especially against terrible teams like KC.

[FightLikeSin]

Did I mention turnovers by the defense? No. They are not very opportunistic, that much is certain, but they do an excellent job keeping other teams out of the endzone after turnovers. The amount of yardage given up is a corrollary to the Colts' inability to run the ball (by design, of course, because Arians has been and will always be a stubborn offensive coordinator) and penchant for turnovers. Short fields plus a large time of possession gives an opposing offense plenty of time to pile up the yards. Unfortunately for them, they aren't the last ones to get the ball.

 

 

So Luck's turnovers are the issue you have then. I gotcha, but it still doesn't move me. It seems you are blaming the amount of INT's  and not actually looking at INT rate compared to his passing attempts. It's only 3.005%. Luck is 5th in the league at pass attempts. So keep that in mind. 

[House]

It's a logical converse.

People want to prop up Luck, deservedly so, for his comeback wins, but that is not a merit against which you can judge all quarterbacks because each situation is different. Last year, Eli Manning was the comeback king, but still wouldn't argue that he was better than Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers last year. Manning, much like Luck, put himself in situations in which he had to comeback.

Not really lol.

Just because you can't judge against others doesn't mean it gets negated.

And that blanket statement that he put the team in all these holes is a little misleading. He certainly didn't make the D let the Vikings score enough to tie the game right at the end. But he did lead us down the field for the game winning fieldgoal. He also didn't put us in the hole against the Packers. And as soon as the D woke up in the second half and stopped the Pack and gave Luck chances with the ball, he won us the game. He also didn't make the D give up the lead to the Jags with a minute to go, after he led us down the field for a score 30 seconds prior. Lets not pretend our D is a juggernaut. But I will concede turnovers have put us in a hole more than once.

You make one truly valid point however, it's pointless to compare the comebacks, negatively or positively. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about in his body of work though. It is something special that Andrew has done that no one else has.

Should we take Griffins rushing stats out when comparing him to the likes of Brady or Manning? By your logic yes, because it can't be compared with to those two, because they don't ever look to rush.

But it would be silly to discount such a thing because it can't be compared. Robert's rushing stats are apart of what made/makes him special. Just like Andrew's nack for bringing the team back in the clutch.

[ViriLudant]

Exactly. ..... well .... until someone else pipes in and mentions this QB has 7 game winning and comeback drives thsi year, and 10 wins total. With one more game to play. Hmmmm....

Pretty sure that wins are a team stat, not a QB stat.

At least, that's what Colt fans said for YEARS when one QB consistently won more than another QB.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Does a guy who only completed 54.3% of his passes and had a TD-Int ratio of 21-18 deserve to go the Pro Bowl?

 Most likely, no.

 

Now, does a rookie quarterback who has the -

 

• Most passing yards in a single game by a rookie quarterback: (433)
• Most passing yards by a rookie in a single season: (4,183)
• Most 300+ yards passing games by a rookie QB
• Most wins by a #1 pick QB in his rookie season
• Most game-winning drives by a rookie quarterback (7)
• Most fourth quarter comebacks by a rookie quarterback (6)

deserve to got to the Pro Bowl?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Pretty sure that wins are a team stat, not a QB stat.

At least, that's what Colt fans said for YEARS when one QB consistently won more than another QB.

 

See above then.

 

Oh, he also has 5 TD's rushing.

 

 

As far as I know, the QB is the only player graded by wins, and especially Super Bowl rings.  Rodney Harrison is graded by his rings, but Brady is.

Oh, Peyton had more regular season wins than Brady in 2000's.  Brady had more playoff/SB victories, which  means just  barely ahead in total victories.  Essentially a tie. The big difference? 3 rings vs. 1.

 

Nobody on the team touches the ball every play. Only the QB touches the ball nearly every single offensive play.  His involvement is like a baseball pitcher.  The pitcher gets credit for the win, as does the team. ;)

[GrizzColt]

Quit comparing Stafford to Luck.  Stafford is throwing to the greatest talent in the NFL.  He will be unanimously considered  the greatest receiver to have ever played the game and he does it double and triple teamed.  Reggie Wayne is good, but not Calvin Johnson good.

 

Luck will end up with 1,000 more passing yards than RG3 and Wilson and more rookie records than Griffin and Wilson combined.  Records MATTER in the NFL.    

 

Captain Kirk Cousins won 2 games, not 1 and that IS significant in a OROY race that is this close.  

 

Personally, I don't see any difference at all between Wilson and RG3.  They are doing almost exactly the same thing.  Their coaches are incorporating their QB's favorite college plays into the NFL so their QB's will feel comfortable.  I'm not even sure you can say Griffin is better than Wilson.  Certainly, Griffin hasn't dominated a great team the way Wilson dominated the 49er defense.  That being said, both of them run way too much and are a year or 2 away from season ending injuries if they continue.

 

Griffin is faster than Luck, but not a better athlete.  There is no other QB who possesses Luck's combination of size, speed, strength and coordination.    Oh, yeah and smarts.

[Tsarquise]

Did I say he did belong? No.

The notion that only the elite go is flawed. Is Griffin more elite than Brees? No. Was Dallas Clark not elite for the majority of his career?

How elite was Vince Young?

How about Big Ben? Shouldn't he be going. He's won two Super Bowls. How much more elite than that can you get?

And did I read that Ray Lewis was going? He didn't play for half the year, and he's like 100.

There is a lot that goes into the pro bowl besides just being "elite", or best of the best.

It might be just a popularity contest but the most productive players are supposed to go to the pro bowl.

Just because undeserving players, in the past, have been selected to go to the pro bowl, doesn't erase what a pro bowl selection denotes.

Too me, Luck does not warrant a spot. And I don't see how anyone would think he deserves a pro bowl spot.

[thecardiacrll]

Quit comparing Stafford to Luck.  Stafford is throwing to the greatest talent in the NFL.  He will be unanimously considered  the greatest receiver to have ever played the game and he does it double and triple teamed.  Reggie Wayne is good, but not Calvin Johnson good.

 

Luck will end up with 1,000 more passing yards than RG3 and Wilson and more rookie records than Griffin and Wilson combined.  Records MATTER in the NFL.    

 

Captain Kirk Cousins won 2 games, not 1 and that IS significant in a OROY race that is this close.  

 

Personally, I don't see any difference at all between Wilson and RG3.  They are doing almost exactly the same thing.  Their coaches are incorporating their QB's favorite college plays into the NFL so their QB's will feel comfortable.  I'm not even sure you can say Griffin is better than Wilson.  Certainly, Griffin hasn't dominated a great team the way Wilson dominated the 49er defense.  That being said, both of them run way too much and are a year or 2 away from season ending injuries if they continue.

 

Griffin is faster than Luck, but not a better athlete.  There is no other QB who possesses Luck's combination of size, speed, strength and coordination.    Oh, yeah and smarts.

Why stop bringing up Stafford. They have basically the same stats yet you argue Luck got snubbed and is the greatest QB since sliced bread but yet give a qb with the same stats no respect. I know he has megatron to throw to but Stafford was a #1 pick as well its not like he wasn't highly touted. Luck being a better athlete then RG3 is laughable...And RG3 and R. Wilson are no dummies either so bringing up Andrews smarts is pretty dumb

[Tsarquise]

Quit comparing Stafford to Luck. Stafford is throwing to the greatest talent in the NFL. He will be unanimously considered the greatest receiver to have ever played the game and he does it double and triple teamed. Reggie Wayne is good, but not Calvin Johnson good.

Luck will end up with 1,000 more passing yards than RG3 and Wilson and more rookie records than Griffin and Wilson combined. Records MATTER in the NFL.

Captain Kirk Cousins won 2 games, not 1 and that IS significant in a OROY race that is this close.

Personally, I don't see any difference at all between Wilson and RG3. They are doing almost exactly the same thing. Their coaches are incorporating their QB's favorite college plays into the NFL so their QB's will feel comfortable. I'm not even sure you can say Griffin is better than Wilson. Certainly, Griffin hasn't dominated a great team the way Wilson dominated the 49er defense. That being said, both of them run way too much and are a year or 2 away from season ending injuries if they continue.

Griffin is faster than Luck, but not a better athlete. There is no other QB who possesses Luck's combination of size, speed, strength and coordination. Oh, yeah and smarts.

How do you gauge his smarts?

Why do you think Lucks intelligence is higher than the others?

[House]

It might be just a popularity contest but the most productive players are supposed to go to the pro bowl.

Just because undeserving players, in the past, have been selected to go to the pro bowl, doesn't erase what a pro bowl selection denotes.

Too me, Luck does not warrant a spot. And I don't see how anyone would think he deserves a pro bowl spot.

Why do you bring up Andrew in every post? I have not mentioned a snub or an argument for why he should make it in one of my posts to you. Yet everytime you reply you bring up Luck.

And you can't concede it's a popularity contest, and also say it's all about the best of the best. Those two notions oppose each other.

Clearly it is a hybrid of those two things, which is why I said your statement was flawed. Because it isn't just about who's the best. Clearly.

[dw49]

Why stop bringing up Stafford. They have basically the same stats yet you argue Luck got snubbed and is the greatest QB since sliced bread but yet give a qb with the same stats no respect. I know he has megatron to throw to but Stafford was a #1 pick as well its not like he wasn't highly touted. Luck being a better athlete then RG3 is laughable...And RG3 and R. Wilson are no dummies either so bringing up Andrews smarts is pretty dumb

 

 

 

Are you people just not smart enough to realize that one guy made tons of big plays that lead a horrible roster to 10 wins while the other team is loaded with talent and has 4 wins. One guy makes big plays with the game on the line while the other crfumbles. Does that help you fellas ?

[thecardiacrll]

Are you people just not smart enough to realize that one guy made tons of big plays that lead a horrible roster to 10 wins while the other team is loaded with talent and has 4 wins. One guy makes big plays with the game on the line while the other crfumbles. Does that help you fellas ?

So your saying if I put Andrew Luck on the Lions he wins 10+ games...THATS HORSE CRAP AND YOU KNOW IT. Luck is beating bottom feeders and barely might i add (EXCEPT GREENBAY) if he played in the NFC North he would get brutalized playing the way he plays now.

LUck is leading such a horrible team...hahaha...before last year yall were winning 10+ games every year. WHATS MOR IMPRESSIVE? LUCK TAKING A GOOD FRANCHISE WITH 1 BAD SEASON TO A GOOD SEASON. OR RG3 LEADING A 20 YEAR BOTTOM FEEDER BACK TO LIFE AND GIVING THEM A CHANCE AT AN NFC EAST TITLE...ITS A NO BRAINER.

[ColtsBlueFL]

It might be just a popularity contest but the most productive players are supposed to go to the pro bowl.

Just because undeserving players, in the past, have been selected to go to the pro bowl, doesn't erase what a pro bowl selection denotes.

Too me, Luck does not warrant a spot. And I don't see how anyone would think he deserves a pro bowl spot.

 

What is your definition of productivity?  What are the fans definition of productivity? What would be a head coaches definition of productivity?  The GM? The front office?  Sports writers?

 

I'll bet the answers differ greatly, and thus why some would have him in consideration, and others not even look that way.

[Luck2Wayne12]

Griffin is faster than Luck, but not a better athlete.  

 

Andrew Luck is a better athlete than Robert Griffin?

[House]

So your saying if I put Andrew Luck on the Lions he wins 10+ games...THATS HORSE CRAP AND YOU KNOW IT. Luck is beating bottom feeders and barely might i add (EXCEPT GREENBAY) if he played in the NFC North he would get brutalized playing the way he plays now.

LUck is leading such a horrible team...hahaha...before last year yall were winning 10+ games every year. WHATS MOR IMPRESSIVE? LUCK TAKING A GOOD FRANCHISE WITH 1 BAD SEASON TO A GOOD SEASON. OR RG3 LEADING A 20 YEAR BOTTOM FEEDER BACK TO LIFE AND GIVING THEM A CHANCE AT AN NFC EAST TITLE...ITS A NO BRAINER.

I think your caps lock is broken......

[Dudley Smith]

the bitterness towards Rg3 is getting close to disgusting..

 

The bitterness towards Andrew Luck is getting close to disgusting, especially by opposing teams' fans who lurk here and claim that they are being objective when all they are doing is looking at the stats and probably haven't watched many (if any) of the Colts games this season. I honestly don't have a problem with RGIII making the pro-bowl, and like others have said, Luck isn't even in contention with RGIII when it comes to that. I am just tired of every time a Colts fan sticks up for Luck he/she gets pummelled as being delusional/non-objective because Luck has a 53% completion percentage and 18 INTs. It is especially obnoxious when it comes from others teams' fans who are only here to put down Luck and make him seem like a pedestrian QB. All you have to do is watch him play to know it is not the case. Add in the fact that he has broken numerous records himself and I think Luck is very deserving of the pro-bowl. I don't have a problem with the 3 ahead of him though.

 

Andrew Luck has taken a team with no O-line, a below average running game, and an average defense into the playoffs that won 2 games last year. That speaks for itself.

[Vance]

Your detector is broken ,you were the same one who was on here ridiculing fans for thinknig they had a shot at the playoffs. Yout Texans have another year or two and it's going to be back to the same old in the AFC South.

 

Lay off the egg nog pal.

[thecardiacrll]

I think your caps lock is broken......

Better that it's my caps lock....And not my brain......The stats are there to prove all my points.

[House]

Better that it's my caps lock....And not my brain......The stats are there to prove all my points.

When did I argue that?

Please find a post of mine that disparaged anything you said. Don't worry I'll wait.

Defensive posters make me

[Luck2Wayne12]

Through week 16:

QB Rating:

RG3 104.1

Luck 75.6

Completion percentage:

RG3 66%

Luck 54%

Average yards per pass:

RG3 8.27 (#1 in the NFL)

Luck 6.98

Touchdown/Interception ratio:

RG3 20/5

Luck 21/18

Rushing Touchdowns

RG3 6

Luck 5

Passing Yards:

RG3 3,100

Luck 4,183

Touchdowns per pass:

RG3 throws a touchdown every 18 passes

Luck throws a touchdown every 28 passes

Interceptions per pass:

RG3 throws an interception every 75 passes

Luck throws an interception every 33 passes

Total offensive points scored:

Redskins 408 (4th in NFL)

Colts 329 (18th in NFL)

Points per game:

Redskins 27.2

Colts 21.9

Outside of total passing yards, RG3 and the Redskins are ahead of the Colts in every single offensive statistic

Guys, I like Andrew Luck, and he's probably going to be a superbowl champion in the next few years. He's come a long way since the beginning of the season, and he'll continue to get better. I personally would take Luck over Griffin in a heartbeat, and I'm glad we got him. But Griffin has had a better season this year overall, period. And it doesn't hurt that the media loves him as well.

Yes, Griffin's running game gives him an advantage, but the Redskins god awful defense offsets that. The Redskins have 3 games where they scored OVER 23 points and still lost. The Colts have scored UNDER 23 points 5 times this season and still won.

If you compare offense to offense, the Redskins have been much better than the Colts. But once we sure up the O-line and find ourselves a stud running back, the Colts will be much more balanced and efficient on offense. I believe Luck will have more success in his career than RG3, but this year belongs to Griffin.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Such a warm and fuzzy thread.

[thecardiacrll]

When did I argue that?

Defensive posters make me

Not defensive you wanna throw out a sarcastic comment like your CAPS LOCK comment...I threw one right back

[BrentMc11]

When did I argue that?

Defensive posters make me

You know what they say...the best DEFENsE Is A GOOd OfFeNsE......................OOOOPS!  My brain is not working but my All caps seemm....well...challenged?         

[House]

Not defensive you wanna throw out a sarcastic comment like your CAPS LOCK comment...I threw one right back

Lol your a fun guy. You think you threw anything at me? Please since my brain is so broken tell me where I am so off track? Seeing as you probably don't know my stance at all it makes you look foolish insulting my intelligence.

And please it was a caps lock joke. How offended could you have been?

[BrentMc11]

Such a warm and fuzzy thread.

I need my Bob Knight face on........Don't I look Happy?

 

[House]

You know what they say...the best DEFENsE Is A GOOd OfFeNsE......................OOOOPS! My brain is not working but my All caps seemm....well...challenged?

[KS_COLTS_FAN]

Just thought about it, thought I'd share.

 

Pro Bowl Corners

 

Champ Bailey  games: 15   start:14   tkl:63   sack:0   passdef:11   ffum:0   int:2   td:0

Jonathan Joseph  games:13   start:13   tkl:57   sack:0   passdef:11   ffum:0   int:2   td:1

Antonio Cromartie   games:15   start:15   tkl:33   sack:0   passdef:16   ffum:0   int:3   td:1

 

Darius Butler   games:10   start:4    tkl:31   sack:0   passdef: 12   ffum:1   int:4   td:2

[FireJimCaldwell]

the bitterness towards Rg3 is getting close to disgusting..

Just wait till it extrapolates if he wins the NFC East Sunday night. 

[FireJimCaldwell]

I need my Bob Knight face on........Don't I look Happy?

 

Hope the chairs are bolted down. 

[braveheartcolt]

More than 50% of posts in this thread are from non Colts fans. A trollers paradise.

My one and only comment on here is if they had an Amateur Bowl, it would only contain our entire Offensive Line.

Case closed.

[thecardiacrll]

Just wait till it extrapolates if he wins the NFC East Sunday night. 

If it happens I'm sure alot of fans on here will turn to well the NFC east wasn't good this year. I already can hear the excuses.

[dw49]

So your saying if I put Andrew Luck on the Lions he wins 10+ games...THATS HORSE CRAP AND YOU KNOW IT. Luck is beating bottom feeders and barely might i add (EXCEPT GREENBAY) if he played in the NFC North he would get brutalized playing the way he plays now.

LUck is leading such a horrible team...hahaha...before last year yall were winning 10+ games every year. WHATS MOR IMPRESSIVE? LUCK TAKING A GOOD FRANCHISE WITH 1 BAD SEASON TO A GOOD SEASON. OR RG3 LEADING A 20 YEAR BOTTOM FEEDER BACK TO LIFE AND GIVING THEM A CHANCE AT AN NFC EAST TITLE...ITS A NO BRAINER.

 

 

Minnesota is not a "bottom feeder" nor are the Dolphins. Yes, we all know the Colts had a soft schedule. To even infer that this team had talent and had a "bad year" in 2011 is brutally ignorant. As far as saying if Luck played on the Lions ... bla , bla , bla... it's like asking how RG3's stats would look if he played on a team with no running game and had to run a pro style offense instead of the Pop Warner stuff he's been running for years.

[Vance]

More than 50% of posts in this thread are from non Colts fans. A trollers paradise. My one and only comment on here is if they had an Amateur Bowl, it would only contain our entire Offensive Line. Case closed.

 

I find that offensive, Mr. Wallace.

[Tsarquise]

What is your definition of productivity? What are the fans definition of productivity? What would be a head coaches definition of productivity? The GM? The front office? Sports writers?

I'll bet the answers differ greatly, and thus why some would have him in consideration, and others not even look that way.

You're right. Peoples definition of productivity would differ greatly.

My definition of productivity, from the QB position, would be, high TD, low INT ratio, high completion percentage, yards, and how well the QB constantly helps the team win.

I feel Andrew Lucks inconsistent, rookie play has hindered the Colts offense. His low completion rate, Interceptions and TDs thrown for the other team has drastically effected our place in the AFC. He has shown flashes of brilliance (last drives of the lions game, dolphins game, and second half of Packers game.) but he is largely inconsistent and since the QB position is so important, his mistakes greatly impact the Colts.

Most people blame his lackluster stats on Bruce Arians offense, but then point to his high passing yard numbers which is also a product of the system.

They also blame the O-line, yet Andrew Luck probably makes them look worse then they are for holding on to the ball too long.

So imo Luck definitely doesn't belong in the Pro Bowl. He also doesn't deserve rookie of the year. To me, he's played like a rookie. A rookie who shows promise.

[Tsarquise]

I also think our second half defense has a lot to with our overall record... you can probably attribute that to coaching adjustments.

Our offense can barely score more than 20 points. The D deserves some props.

[BrentMc11]

Hope the chairs are bolted down. 

As Bob would say " I saw a Grandmother walking slowly over there and she needed a nice cozy place to sit in Assembly Hall.  I obliged her."

 

And we thought he was not happy?  Were we wrong.....that is an enormous smile.......and to the next episode....of "As a chair Flies"  and.............   :topic:  :hijack: by Coach Knight...............

 

[thecardiacrll]

Minnesota is not a "bottom feeder" nor are the Dolphins. Yes, we all know the Colts had a soft schedule. To even infer that this team had talent and had a "bad year" in 2011 is brutally ignorant. As far as saying if Luck played on the Lions ... bla , bla , bla... it's like asking how RG3's stats would look if he played on a team with no running game and had to run a pro style offense instead of the Pop Warner stuff he's been running for years.

POP WARNER...lol... They run Shanahans offense from the Pistol its the same offense John Elway and Jay Cutler ran except from the pistol....which by the way Big Ben and the Steelers have been using the Pistol for the last like 3 years. How come I only hear that when people are talking RG3? You know The 49ers with Kaepernick and the Seahawks with R. Wilson are running the same offense. The NFL is evolving the Patriots run the spread offense. It's not a gimmick like the wildcat. The only gimmick the skins were using was the triple option and they have barely run it the second half of the season. They use it like a trick play like a team would run a reverse.

[rdskns4eva]

So is Russell Wilson. And he hasn't missed playing time or had his backup and come in and win games for him ;)

RG3's numbers are better than Wilsons despite the fact that he missed a game.