Bad Offensive Gameplan

[BOTT]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cynjin" data-cid="362169"><p>Luck gets pressured on the quick passes too.  The line is just bad, nothing of significance can be done until next year.  The Colts do some short/quick passes, but they can not do that all game long.  The Texans were pinning their collective ears back from the start.  That is what teams will do against this o-line until they prove that they can hold up.</p></blockquote><br />the quick passes consist of wr screens. no quick slants, no rb screens, no quick comebacks,etc. remember those quick/short/bubble screens to the tight ends that worked well? i don't think BA does

[NewColtsFan]

That's fair, but I believe if this team with this OL were running a WCO, then the offense would look more competent on a weekly basis. It would be more consistent, the sack totals would be lower, the # of QB hits would be lower, and the completion % would be higher.

Asking this OL to run this scheme is about on par with asking Painter to run Manning's offense. The OL has faired better than Painter, but they shouldn't be put in this position.

The end result is more QB hits.

 

 

To be clear,  I'm not talking about firing Arians, which another poster commented on.   It's an absolute non-starter.    Not after this season.    But I hope Chuck Pagano has a heart to heart with Arians this off-season about working more short and medium passes into our offense.

 

The Andrew Luck we see,  the Andrew Luck that most here love,  some like, and some are disappointed in,  is NOTHING to what he was at Stanford.   Two years of a 70% QB and this year he's about 53%?   The last 3-4 weeks in a row he's been UNDER 50%.    Andrew Luck is capable of far, FAR more but this offense ties him down and therefore, ties down the whole offense.

 

FireJimCaldwell is correct.   We make our offense harder than it needs to be.    The Sports Illustrated with Luck on the cover had a disappointing passage about Arians....   how he HATES the West Coast Offense.    That was very disheartening to read.   Very.

 

So,  it's going to need to come from Pagano.    I hope he's up to that.   Not that we have to re-tool the whole offense,  just make some subtle additions.    This is a 60% league,  not a 53% league.   We can become that without too much difficulty.

 

I hope Arians is open to some suggestion of change....

[FireJimCaldwell]

Luck gets pressured on the quick passes too.  The line is just bad, nothing of significance can be done until next year.  The Colts do some short/quick passes, but they can not do that all game long.  The Texans were pinning their collective ears back from the start.  That is what teams will do against this o-line until they prove that they can hold up.

It's not a world beater by any means but the scheme amplifies it's weaknesses. There is as much wrong with the scheme as the there is the 5-8 players playing on the OL. For the scheme to flow properly, it would require a great OL. That is simply not the case. It would be like Denver asking Manning to run the read option.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I'll agree with that conceptually. Our QB completion rate supports that. However, I kind of like that big risk big play style.

I know it's no excuse, but have we had the same O line two weeks in a row, ever this season? That's why I think the game plan is about the best we're going to get right now. Maybe next season, with some better talent it will change.

I like having a deep threat. Trust me I like Hilton getting behind the coverage and getting an easy touchdown. I don't like having 3 or more 20 yard routes. I just think the offensive coordinator could put the quarterback in a better position from a success perspective and a safety perspective. I get that he's 6'4 240 or whatever he is, but guys bigger than that break down too.

I'd have to check. I'm not sure.

[FireJimCaldwell]

 

I hope Arians is open to some suggestion of change....

He won't. His tenure in Pittsburgh and this year are make it seem like he's too stubborn to change.

[MSColtsFan]

The 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty making good field position great field position and led to the FG which made it a two score game, and then the complete lack of urgency on offense the next series needing two scores to me were as bad as the game plan.  Today was not one of BA's best performances on any level in my opinion.  Bad day from the OC/HC.

[John Waylon]

Ballard had that great drive, then BA started going back to the well every play. The two drives after that were runs for losses or no gains on 1st and 2nd downs setting up 3rd and longs that resulted in punts.

Again, the pats exposed a weakness last week, and we got a TD from it before the half today. Other than that, we totally ignored ot and continued to do things that were not working.

[INColts12]

What was up with BA deciding to let Moore go in for that TD on the goal line and he fumbled the football. Ballard was hot and he wasnt out there going for that TD. Theres one mistake

[unitaswestand]

It is unlikely, but I do hope that BA gets offered a head coaching job.  I really have to question the pairing of him with Luck.  I find it odd that he really is nothing like what Pagano said he wanted to do.   As was pointed out, Luck looks nothing like that precision passer at Stanford.

 

I have always believed that great coaches adopt their system to the personnel they have.  Yet, BA seems to want to do it the other way.  He doesn't have the line or the QB to be the second coming of "The Greatest Show On Turf".  That is not a knock against Luck, but he isn't a consistent long ball thrower.  He strength, just like Brady or Manning, is quick, accurate passes and then mixing in occasional shots down the field.  I honestly think Luck has been regressing the last few weeks.  He keeps throwing high passes and is locking on receivers far more lately.  I know that has to come from being harassed on every play.  But I don't think BA is helping him at all with the play calling.

[Surge89]

Does anyone really think that Arians won't be our O coordinator next season? Unless he chooses to leave, it's his job.

As far as the complaints in Pittsburgh, they also had a very weak O line and he made the best of it. Again, be real.

I'm not an Arians apologist but we have to be realistic about what we have out there and what's possible. BTW, we scored two TDs against a very good D. They scored one against an average (at best) D. So who had the better O coordinator today?

 

 

Yes Arians will be O-Coorindator next season, should he?  based on past information and consistent tendencies no he should not.

 

The complaints in Pitsuburgh were not because of a weak oline.  They were because they could never have consistency and would have instances where they would see the potential of their offense but only to see it again once out of the next 4 games.

 

We scored 2 tds against this d... Jax score 5... Pats score 7... this D isn't cream of the crop it is far from and our D is far from below average this is not the Peyton Manning defense.  This D actually gets stops and changes coverage. Stop using it as a crutch.

 

Point is Luck has a lot of promise and seems to be regressing... I looked back at some of his earlier games in the year and he would be conistently looking off safeties and comprehending schemes, and now I see alot more of holding on to the ball, staring receivers down, forcing to Reggie, and most imporntantly him getting hit more and more...  I can't tell you if it is Arians or maybe Luck's true colors are showing but Ben grew the same habits in Pit and it is very disturbing to watch...

 

Also as others have said our schemes/playcalling/offensive style does not play to our current rosters strength AT ALL.  This is a problem why help others teams to beat us when we could just beat other teams without helping them.

[The Peytonator]

I would definitely like to see a more timing based offense. Why don't we see a nice comeback route by Reggie that he was so adept at running with Big P?

 

On one hand, I know Luck is not using his underneath guys like he should, but on the other hand, Arians is very stubborn and predictable on a lot of his calls.

[GoColts8818]

The texans were blown out last week. Blown out.

Why are we not trying any of what got them blown out last week?

We're totally capable of it.

No our line was not capable of it.  If you go back and watch the New England game Brady had all day to throw.  Luck was under pressure on even the easiest of pass plays.  There were some funny play calls at time today but all and all to me this simply came down to our line not being able to protect Luck. 

[GoColts8818]

I'm not an Arians critic, but Moore shouldn't have been in on that fumble. And it was terrible play calling in the 4th qtr with their backs to the endzone

That's the way they have played it all year.  They bring the second back in to rest the starter on the third series of the game.  Hind sight is 20/20 though and I can see why people did not like having Moore in there.

[GoColts8818]

Again, I don't see how that's relevant.

 

We're talking about their offensive gameplan and play calling, in comparison with ours.

yes but your game plan is only as good as the players executing it and ours did not execute as well as theirs did.  You can have the greatest game plan in the world but if your players don't go out and execute it then it's going to look bad. 

[Tark The Shark]

Arians is a stubborn old man. The guy doesn't know when to change. "Respect the process" is a quote I keep on hearing. He just wants to keep things churning.

 

Luck is regressing each and every week, and it is a combo of bad O-line play and difficult playcalling. He is not playing smart football anymore.

 

Either the O-line needs to get better or Arians needs to change the gameplan. Honestly, I am hoping Luck gets injured, nothing serious. But out at least a few games so then Arians will change things in the offense because it isn't working anymore.

[GoColts8818]

Arians is a stubborn old man. The guy doesn't know when to change. "Respect the process" is a quote I keep on hearing. He just wants to keep things churning.

 

Luck is regressing each and every week, and it is a combo of bad O-line play and difficult playcalling. He is not playing smart football anymore.

 

Either the O-line needs to get better or Arians needs to change the gameplan. Honestly, I am hoping Luck gets injured, nothing serious. But out at least a few games so then Arians will change things in the offense because it isn't working anymore.

Not playing smart football is a problem with Luck not the coach.  I would agree though Luck has not played well in the past month.  Sorry some of this goes on Luck it's not all Arians and that's okay because he's a rookie QB and rookie QBs have periods like this while they learn.  Honestly they did their best to take the ball out of Luck's hands today with running the ball which was smart and clearly an in game adjustment so I am not going to buy that he wont change.  I think sometimes we lose sight of the fact we have an offense full of rookies playing with a patch work o-line and what are realistic expectations for them.  Add to that the defense gives them almost zero help in the turnover department and they get very little help from the return game and yeah an offense full of rookies is going to struggle. 

 

Next look at what we have at WR. Guys that are built to be speed guys to beat people deep outside of Reggie Wayne.  Teams have been doing a much better job on Wayne as of late.  Luck could really use a guy like Johnson, that the QB can just throw the ball up to when he's in trouble.  That's why I am okay with the Colts maybe taking a look at Bowe this off-season.  That or calling Arizona and seeing if Fitz really wants out of there and if so what it would cost to get him. 

 

Clearly the line needs a major overhaul this off-season.  That's where the biggest problem lies.  It doesn't matter who the QB is if you get the kind of pressure on him that teams get on Luck is they are going to struggle.  Let alone a rookie QB.  It's also very hard to run any kind of game plan when you get zero time to throw.  Also I've noticed more than once that Luck has passed on passing to check downs to go down the field.  That goes on the QB's decision making not the coaching.  Like the announcers said all the way back to the Lions game Luck doesn't like to throw short passes. 

 

No Arians play calling has not been prefect but honestly I find when I want to get upset with it and I go back and look at why he called what he called given what he had to work with and the situation of the game I can understand it.  Keep in mind this is still year one of rebuilding with a tone of rookies on offense they are by far over achieving.  Look at it this way we could have Jim Caldwell calling plays for us like he is doing for the Ravens. 

[Tark The Shark]

Not playing smart football is a problem with Luck not the coach.  I would agree though Luck has not played well in the past month.  Sorry some of this goes on Luck it's not all Arians and that's okay because he's a rookie QB and rookie QBs have periods like this while they learn.  Honestly they did their best to take the ball out of Luck's hands today with running the ball which was smart and clearly an in game adjustment so I am not going to buy that he wont change.  I think sometimes we lose sight of the fact we have an offense full of rookies playing with a patch work o-line and what are realistic expectations for them.  Add to that the defense gives them almost zero help in the turnover department and they get very little help from the return game and yeah an offense full of rookies is going to struggle. 

 

Next look at what we have at WR. Guys that are built to be speed guys to beat people deep outside of Reggie Wayne.  Teams have been doing a much better job on Wayne as of late.  Luck could really use a guy like Johnson, that the QB can just throw the ball up to when he's in trouble.  That's why I am okay with the Colts maybe taking a look at Bowe this off-season.  That or calling Arizona and seeing if Fitz really wants out of there and if so what it would cost to get him. 

 

Clearly the line needs a major overhaul this off-season.  That's where the biggest problem lies.  It doesn't matter who the QB is if you get the kind of pressure on him that teams get on Luck is they are going to struggle.  Let alone a rookie QB.  It's also very hard to run any kind of game plan when you get zero time to throw.  Also I've noticed more than once that Luck has passed on passing to check downs to go down the field.  That goes on the QB's decision making not the coaching.  Like the announcers said all the way back to the Lions game Luck doesn't like to throw short passes. 

 

No Arians play calling has not been prefect but honestly I find when I want to get upset with it and I go back and look at why he called what he called given what he had to work with and the situation of the game I can understand it.  Keep in mind this is still year one of rebuilding with a tone of rookies on offense they are by far over achieving.  Look at it this way we could have Jim Caldwell calling plays for us like he is doing for the Ravens. 

 

Yes exactly. Luck isn't perfect and i agree with what you are saying. It is a combination of a lot of things for why the team is not playing smart offensively. 

 

I think it will help to have Pagano coming back because Luck looked strong early on in the season and Arians looks like he has too much on his plate.

 

Honestly, I still don't see why we can't run the no huddle offense. Luck can run it in 2 minutes in the most pressure packed situations, but he can't do it for full drives? It makes little to no sense to me.

 

It could be a lot worse, I suppose. Although things do need to change and I feel Grigson will make sure Luck will be given the tools to succeed.

[Surge89]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Tark the shark" data-cid="362764" data-time="1355716610"><p>

Arians is a stubborn old man. The guy doesn't know when to change. "Respect the process" is a quote I keep on hearing. He just wants to keep things churning.<br />

<br />

Luck is regressing each and every week, and it is a combo of bad O-line play and difficult playcalling. He is not playing smart football anymore.<br />

<br />

Either the O-line needs to get better or Arians needs to change the gameplan. Honestly, I am hoping Luck gets injured, nothing serious. But out at least a few games so then Arians will change things in the offense because it isn't working anymore.</p></blockquote>

Ben was hurt for consecutive years and the play calling didnt change...

[Superman]

You based your analysis on offensive success.  I'm sure you don't believe talent(on both sides of the ball) to be irrelevent to the success of your offense, or the opposition's. 

They play to their strengths, and try to minimize their weaknesses. We say "we don't care what our strengths and weaknesses are, or that this team is good at taking advantage of them, we're just gonna do the same thing we do against everyone else."

They are more talented. That being the case, it would make sense for us to gameplan in a way that at least tries to neutralize what they do best. We did not, and it shows in the stats and the outcome. And we all saw this coming from a mile away.

[GoColts8818]

Yes exactly. Luck isn't perfect and i agree with what you are saying. It is a combination of a lot of things for why the team is not playing smart offensively. 

 

I think it will help to have Pagano coming back because Luck looked strong early on in the season and Arians looks like he has too much on his plate.

 

Honestly, I still don't see why we can't run the no huddle offense. Luck can run it in 2 minutes in the most pressure packed situations, but he can't do it for full drives? It makes little to no sense to me.

 

It could be a lot worse, I suppose. Although things do need to change and I feel Grigson will make sure Luck will be given the tools to succeed.

The announcers keep saying why we don't run the no huddle more.  It's the other five rookies on offense not Luck for why they don't run it.  That's what the coaches keep telling them.  Also Arians addressed this on his radio show after the Lions game and said part of the reason they don't run it more is that the no huddle is designed more for passing the ball but they want to run more and going no huddle takes the run out the equation.  I don't agree with him on that because I think you can do whatever you would like out the no huddle but the Colts have their reasons and I think the point about the five other rookies on offense is a valid point. 

[Surge89]

Not playing smart football is a problem with Luck not the coach.  I would agree though Luck has not played well in the past month.  Sorry some of this goes on Luck it's not all Arians and that's okay because he's a rookie QB and rookie QBs have periods like this while they learn.  Honestly they did their best to take the ball out of Luck's hands today with running the ball which was smart and clearly an in game adjustment so I am not going to buy that he wont change.  I think sometimes we lose sight of the fact we have an offense full of rookies playing with a patch work o-line and what are realistic expectations for them.  Add to that the defense gives them almost zero help in the turnover department and they get very little help from the return game and yeah an offense full of rookies is going to struggle. 

 

Next look at what we have at WR. Guys that are built to be speed guys to beat people deep outside of Reggie Wayne.  Teams have been doing a much better job on Wayne as of late.  Luck could really use a guy like Johnson, that the QB can just throw the ball up to when he's in trouble.  That's why I am okay with the Colts maybe taking a look at Bowe this off-season.  That or calling Arizona and seeing if Fitz really wants out of there and if so what it would cost to get him. 

 

Clearly the line needs a major overhaul this off-season.  That's where the biggest problem lies.  It doesn't matter who the QB is if you get the kind of pressure on him that teams get on Luck is they are going to struggle.  Let alone a rookie QB.  It's also very hard to run any kind of game plan when you get zero time to throw.  Also I've noticed more than once that Luck has passed on passing to check downs to go down the field.  That goes on the QB's decision making not the coaching.  Like the announcers said all the way back to the Lions game Luck doesn't like to throw short passes. 

 

No Arians play calling has not been prefect but honestly I find when I want to get upset with it and I go back and look at why he called what he called given what he had to work with and the situation of the game I can understand it.  Keep in mind this is still year one of rebuilding with a tone of rookies on offense they are by far over achieving.  Look at it this way we could have Jim Caldwell calling plays for us like he is doing for the Ravens. 

 

 

First I will ask.. did you watch Luck play at Stanford?  Why? because he did not play this way there.  He was disciplined and threw accurately and never stared down receivers he had all the tools that you looked for in an NFL QB.  Now?  he plays reckless dumb football.  I will leave it at that on this subject.

 

Second our receivers are fast yes?  so why not get them in space to take advantage of their speed?  It keeps our QB off his back and uses their best ability.  Now I don't want us to telegraph what we are doing but for god sakes 1 step slant or something would be nice to see more than once every 3 games...

 

Third I completely agree with everything you said on the oline props! but i completely disagree on Luck not liking to throw short passes... when he made his name on it...  The announcers can make good points but this time they did not.  He is a complete different QB now than he was and theres only so many excuses you can make for this change...

 

Honestly we dont have any clue how Jim Caldwell's play calling will be so you never know he may come up with a master scheme lol. 

[Superman]

They finished one drive with a TD. We would have had 3 if not for a stupid fumble. Look at the big picture, not just the stats. We've been "out stated" in just about every game.

 

This is making my head hurt.

 

I'm not just looking at the stats. My criticism of our play calling and gameplanning can really be reduced to two sentences: We have a bad offensive line, but our passing game focuses on plays that take a long time to develop. We have a rookie quarterback and young receivers, but we neglect to call high percentage pass plays that also take pressure off of the substandard offensive line.

 

That's all I'm saying. I've been saying it for weeks now. Someone asked me on this board a few days ago why I didn't think we'd beat the Texans, and I said that it's because I don't believe Arians will adjust our offensive attack to neutralize Houston's defensive attack, or at least try to. They are more talented and more experienced, and in my mind, that's not an excuse, it's a good reason for the coaches to try make things easier on our players.

[Superman]

The announcers keep saying why we don't run the no huddle more.  It's the other five rookies on offense not Luck for why they don't run it.  That's what the coaches keep telling them.  Also Arians addressed this on his radio show after the Lions game and said part of the reason they don't run it more is that the no huddle is designed more for passing the ball but they want to run more and going no huddle takes the run out the equation.  I don't agree with him on that because I think you can do whatever you would like out the no huddle but the Colts have their reasons and I think the point about the five other rookies on offense is a valid point. 

 

I don't understand the infatuation with trying to go no-huddle. We can be a more effective, efficient offense without going no-huddle.

[Superman]

Player talent has a lot to do with how the OC is judged.

 

Not necessarily.

[Tark The Shark]

The announcers keep saying why we don't run the no huddle more.  It's the other five rookies on offense not Luck for why they don't run it.  That's what the coaches keep telling them.  Also Arians addressed this on his radio show after the Lions game and said part of the reason they don't run it more is that the no huddle is designed more for passing the ball but they want to run more and going no huddle takes the run out the equation.  I don't agree with him on that because I think you can do whatever you would like out the no huddle but the Colts have their reasons and I think the point about the five other rookies on offense is a valid point. 

 

I don't get either one of those points.

 

The "rookies" aren't really rookies anymore. These are guys who have had plenty of practice experience and game experience. And by rookies, are you referring to Luck, Ballard, Fleener, Allen, and Hilton. All of those guys, except for Fleener, have been excellent in games. I think they can handle a no huddle game, it could very well go back to the O-line.

 

Once the offense figures out the no-huddle offense, we will be a very good offense.

[Superman]

I don't get either one of those points.

 

The "rookies" aren't really rookies anymore. These are guys who have had plenty of practice experience and game experience. And by rookies, are you referring to Luck, Ballard, Fleener, Allen, and Hilton. All of those guys, except for Fleener, have been excellent in games. I think they can handle a no huddle game, it could very well go back to the O-line.

 

Once the offense figures out the no-huddle offense, we will be a very good offense.

 

And they've all been excellent in the hurry up. There's no question they can handle the no-huddle. 

 

I still wonder why so much value is being assigned to the no-huddle. 

[GoColts8818]

First I will ask.. did you watch Luck play at Stanford?  Why? because he did not play this way there.  He was disciplined and threw accurately and never stared down receivers he had all the tools that you looked for in an NFL QB.  Now?  he plays reckless dumb football.  I will leave it at that on this subject.

I did watch him play there a lot to be honest.  Andrew Luck did not play that way his first year as a starter at Stanford.  Also there is a little bit of a talent gap between the PAC-10 and the NFL.  Also he does not have the power running game, good o-line, and defense that he did at Stanford here.  Stanford his Senior year was one of the five best teams in all of college football.  The Colts are not one of the top five teams in the NFL so try to compare the way he played at Stanford to the NFL is not fair.  Also, I think Luck is a very smart QB.  However, the past month he has played like a rookie QB which there is nothing with because he is a rookie QB.  Again, not playing smart is a product of the player not the coach which is why they say someone isn't playing smart. 

Second our receivers are fast yes?  so why not get them in space to take advantage of their speed?  It keeps our QB off his back and uses their best ability.  Now I don't want us to telegraph what we are doing but for god sakes 1 step slant or something would be nice to see more than once every 3 games...

They have at times our screens get blown up, Luck has over thrown them at times, other times he has hit them.  Also, there have been times where Luck did have underneath guys he could have dumped the ball too and he threw it deep.  I saw it several times today.  I've seen it in other games as well.  Now there are plays where they don't give him a bail out option but mostly that's because they have to keep a back and the tightends in to help block.  Those are most of your bail out options. 

Third I completely agree with everything you said on the oline props! but i completely disagree on Luck not liking to throw short passes... when he made his name on it...  The announcers can make good points but this time they did not.  He is a complete different QB now than he was and theres only so many excuses you can make for this change...

It's not an excuse if you watch the plays not every WR is running deep down the field there are guys underneath and Luck is not throwing to them.  Now in fairness those guys are not always open but that's not ALL the play calling.  If Luck was hitting more of those deep passes (which he has over thrown or under thrown his fair share) you would see a lot more of those deep passes covered opening up the underneath passes. 

Honestly we dont have any clue how Jim Caldwell's play calling will be so you never know he may come up with a master scheme lol. 

It sure didn't look great today and again, I think if I told people this off-season we could have kept Caldwell and him start calling plays or gone to Arians people would have been pleading for Arians. 

[Tark The Shark]

And they've all been excellent in the hurry up. There's no question they can handle the no-huddle. 

 

I still wonder why so much value is being assigned to the no-huddle. 

 

 

They can handle it.

 

Hmmm, I guess the reason the no huddle value is there because it works very well for our style of offense. We are a fast offense with a fast QB. That slows a defense down a lot. Look back at games late when we run the no huddle. We start moving the ball down the field and Luck gets hit less.

[GoColts8818]

I don't understand the infatuation with trying to go no-huddle. We can be a more effective, efficient offense without going no-huddle.

I think people like it because it's worked well when we have done it.  Honestly I think Luck does well in it because I think Luck is super smart and is very quick to memorize things and when you get in a no huddle offense it kinda freezes a defense in the defense they are in and I think Luck sees where the holes are and figures out how to attack it easier than when the defense is mixing up players and formations on him threw out the game. 

[GoColts8818]

I don't get either one of those points.

 

The "rookies" aren't really rookies anymore. These are guys who have had plenty of practice experience and game experience. And by rookies, are you referring to Luck, Ballard, Fleener, Allen, and Hilton. All of those guys, except for Fleener, have been excellent in games. I think they can handle a no huddle game, it could very well go back to the O-line.

 

Once the offense figures out the no-huddle offense, we will be a very good offense.

Rookies still make mistakes more so than say Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Joseph Addai, and several other vets do.  I remember the year that Garcon and Collie came on as rookie and people used to say to Peyton they are so good they don't make mistakes and Peyton would go oh they make mistakes.  Peyton was just able to cover them up.  It's much harder for a rookie QB to cover up those mistakes than a master like Peyton. 

 

You might think they can handle it but the coaches disagree with you and again, I am going to side with them over any of us here because they see this team every week in practice and they see everything on film and have a much better idea of what they can handle and what they can't.  I am sure they aren't just sitting on it just because. 

[Tark The Shark]

Rookies still make mistakes more so than say Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Joseph Addai, and several other vets do.  I remember the year that Garcon and Collie came on as rookie and people used to say to Peyton they are so good they don't make mistakes and Peyton would go oh they make mistakes.  Peyton was just able to cover them up.  It's much harder for a rookie QB to cover up those mistakes than a master like Peyton. 

 

You might think they can handle it but the coaches disagree with you and again, I am going to side with them over any of us here because they see this team every week in practice and they see everything on film and have a much better idea of what they can handle and what they can't.  I am sure they aren't just sitting on it just because. 

 

Rookies do make mistakes, there is no perfect rookie. The problem in line is Arians is not covering up the mistakes very well for the offense as a whole. In fact, he is actually exposing our weaknesses and putting them on display in a shiny shelf.

 

I sometimes wish that I could go and see practice and go into the film room and see what they see during the year. But honestly, Arians probably isn't going to change his mindset on how to run a offense. And frankly it has won us 9 games. So in the end, it is producing.

 

My problem in lies within the fact, we really should have beat the Texans today. I honestly thought it was going to be a Houston dominated game. But really it wasn't, and the fact that we just handed the Texans the game, as a fan, you feel cheated. And Arians just seems to run the same thing again and again, game after game, even when it isn't working.

 

I do have hope it will get better next week against a bad Chiefs team and moving forward. 

[dw49]

They did.

 

They moved the ball better, they had more first downs, they converted on third down (we didn't convert a third down until halfway through the fourth quarter), they completed more passes, they had more yards, they had more points, they gave up fewer sacks, they ran the ball better... There really is no way to argue that our offensive coordinator did a better job than theirs did.

 

 

 

They also have more good players than we do. So we needed to play a mistake fee game and outcoach them. Didn't happen.

[Superman]

They also have more good players than we do. So we needed to play a mistake fee game and outcoach them. Didn't happen.

 

Neither of those things happened. That's kind of what we're talking about.

[GoColts8818]

Rookies do make mistakes, there is no perfect rookie. The problem in line is Arians is not covering up the mistakes very well for the offense as a whole. In fact, he is actually exposing our weaknesses and putting them on display in a shiny shelf.

 

I sometimes wish that I could go and see practice and go into the film room and see what they see during the year. But honestly, Arians probably isn't going to change his mindset on how to run a offense. And frankly it has won us 9 games. So in the end, it is producing.

 

My problem in lies within the fact, we really should have beat the Texans today. I honestly thought it was going to be a Houston dominated game. But really it wasn't, and the fact that we just handed the Texans the game, as a fan, you feel cheated. And Arians just seems to run the same thing again and again, game after game, even when it isn't working.

 

I do have hope it will get better next week against a bad Chiefs team and moving forward. 

Honestly no we shouldn't have the Texans should have mopped the floor with us.  We are a rebuilding team in a year one of rebuilding, and yes we are rebuilding even with the great record, without our head coach.  What the Colts have done this year is nothing short of remarkable.  The fact that had a chance to play for division today speaks to how well this season has gone and how ahead of schedule we are.  I am disappointed that we lost don't get me wrong but I am willing to admit we are way ahead of schedule and am much more encouraged with how things have gone than I am discouraged even with today's loss.  Just think about how good all these rookies are going to be in one or two more years when they have experience under them.  Honestly look at how far we have come in just a month when we went to New England and they blew us out of the water and today we hung with maybe the best team in the NFL.  It's cliche but our future is so bright we all need to wear shades. 

 

I am not going to sit here and try to say Arians has been perfect.  I don't think he has been. There have been times I have been left scratching my head at his play calls.  However, as you said they are getting the job done and frankly more times than not he's called good plays.  I also think people (and I am not saying you per say) are very quick to try to dissmiss any mistake Luck makes as a bad play call by Arians.  While Arians has not been perfect it's not a bad play call when Luck over throws or under throws a wide open WR down the field or when he over throws Flenner out in the flat which has happened more times than not this year.  If he starts hitting those like he did on the pass to Hilton today it's going to open up the underneath passing routes.  It's also not Luck or Arians fault when a WR runs the wrong route on a timing pattern and a pass gets picked off which happened twice in the Lions game.  Luck has played like a rookie at times this year which is okay because he is a rookie.  We were kidding ourselves if we didn't think he was going to have a slump like he has been in lately.  However, he's learning from it and it will pay off down the road. 

 

With that all said I really think the biggest problem isn't Arians or Luck for that matter.  It's the line.  Luck is getting hit just about every time he drops back to pass and most of the time he's throwing on the run, in the grasp, or having to change this throwing motion because of how he's getting hit.  No QB, let alone a rookie is going to do well under that kind of pressure.  If we fix the line this off-season I am sure we are going to see Luck's performance jump big time next season. 

[Gavin]

I dont have a calculator on me (its 1 am and I am visiting family for the holidays). but if I remember right Luck was averaging something like 12 yards per pass attempt but its been a couple weeks since I looked

[Surge89]

I did watch him play there a lot to be honest.  Andrew Luck did not play that way his first year as a starter at Stanford.  Also there is a little bit of a talent gap between the PAC-10 and the NFL.  Also he does not have the power running game, good o-line, and defense that he did at Stanford here.  Stanford his Senior year was one of the five best teams in all of college football.  The Colts are not one of the top five teams in the NFL so try to compare the way he played at Stanford to the NFL is not fair.  Also, I think Luck is a very smart QB.  However, the past month he has played like a rookie QB which there is nothing with because he is a rookie QB.  Again, not playing smart is a product of the player not the coach which is why they say someone isn't playing smart. 

They have at times our screens get blown up, Luck has over thrown them at times, other times he has hit them.  Also, there have been times where Luck did have underneath guys he could have dumped the ball too and he threw it deep.  I saw it several times today.  I've seen it in other games as well.  Now there are plays where they don't give him a bail out option but mostly that's because they have to keep a back and the tightends in to help block.  Those are most of your bail out options. 

It's not an excuse if you watch the plays not every WR is running deep down the field there are guys underneath and Luck is not throwing to them.  Now in fairness those guys are not always open but that's not ALL the play calling.  If Luck was hitting more of those deep passes (which he has over thrown or under thrown his fair share) you would see a lot more of those deep passes covered opening up the underneath passes. 

It sure didn't look great today and again, I think if I told people this off-season we could have kept Caldwell and him start calling plays or gone to Arians people would have been pleading for Arians. 

 

You made one mention of the point i was trying to make... of course he didnt play that way the first year in college... it was his first year in college.  Second the rest of the team does not affect how Luck's decision skills have digressed so the comparison from Stanford to Indianoplis proves... nothing. 

The above statement is kind of the point that he is playing dumber football...

 

Yes we have seen screens... once maybe if that a game. And guess what?  we use the same formation every time to run them and run no other play out of said formation...  We had sucess with tthat early in the year and people clued in...

 

Ok so now your even further proving my point hes overthrowing and underthrowing the deep throw.. so why call nothing but deep routes?  Why put so much emphasis on stretching the field when that is not Luck's strength...  Duh Luck is going to make mistakes but hes not supposed to stop good tendencies that he once had that is called regressing.  Also throwing the deep to open the intermediate only works if your an accurate long ball thrower... guess what?  Luck is very inconsistent in this area. I also have a question.  Why is Luck not throwing to the underneath receiver?  He used the TE so much at Stanford and the TE's in the WCO were checkdowns/underneath route's...

 

When we have the RB block the TE's release I have never seen a one Wide option on this offense so I'm not sure where you are saying that all the bail out options aren't there... Its Arians style to flood the backfield with receivers...  Now if they ran posts or deep outs thats a play calling problem not that there isnt a bail out...

 

And on JC I was jk just to clarify.

[GoColts8818]

You made one mention of the point i was trying to make... of course he didnt play that way the first year in college... it was his first year in college.  Second the rest of the team does not affect how Luck's decision skills have digressed so the comparison from Stanford to Indianoplis proves... nothing. 

The above statement is kind of the point that he is playing dumber football...

 

Yes we have seen screens... once maybe if that a game. And guess what?  we use the same formation every time to run them and run no other play out of said formation...  We had sucess with tthat early in the year and people clued in...

 

Ok so now your even further proving my point hes overthrowing and underthrowing the deep throw.. so why call nothing but deep routes?  Why put so much emphasis on stretching the field when that is not Luck's strength...  Duh Luck is going to make mistakes but hes not supposed to stop good tendencies that he once had that is called regressing.  Also throwing the deep to open the intermediate only works if your an accurate long ball thrower... guess what?  Luck is very inconsistent in this area. I also have a question.  Why is Luck not throwing to the underneath receiver?  He used the TE so much at Stanford and the TE's in the WCO were checkdowns/underneath route's...

 

When we have the RB block the TE's release I have never seen a one Wide option on this offense so I'm not sure where you are saying that all the bail out options aren't there... Its Arians style to flood the backfield with receivers...  Now if they ran posts or deep outs thats a play calling problem not that there isnt a bail out...

 

And on JC I was jk just to clarify.

They don't just call deep routes if you watch those deep routes there is normally one guy going deep the rest of the guys are underneath and either not open or Luck isn't throwing the ball to them.  Also Luck has missed his fair share of short passes this season too.  How many times have we seen him over throw Fleener in the flat? 

 

Again, I am not trying to rip on Luck here I am just making the point that it's not all the play calling.  Luck has made his fair share of mistakes as has just about every other rookie on our offense and I think people are quick to try to blame Arians for SOME thing that Luck does.  Again, I don't think Arians has been perfect either, but I don't think he's to blame for everything like some say act like he is. 

 

I feel like the biggest problem has been and remains the o-line.  If we fix that Luck will be much better.  He wont have to be running around for his life behind the line trying to make plays and we can start taking guys like the tightends and backs we have to keep in for protection and putting them out of the backfield to make plays and give Luck more underneath options.  Also till we fix the line it doesn't matter what plays are being called what decisions Luck is making he's going to struggle, any QB in the NFL would struggle facing what Luck has faced this year. 

[Surge89]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="GoColts8818" data-cid="363092" data-time="1355725001"><p>

They don't just call deep routes if you watch those deep routes there is normally.ne guy going deep the rest of the guys are underneath and either not open or Luck isn't throwing the ball to them. Also Luck has missed his fair share of short passes this season too. How many times have we seen him over throw Fleener in the flat? <br />

<br />

Again, I am not trying to rip on Luck here I am just making the point that it's not all the play calling. Luck has made his fair share of mistakes as has just about every other rookie on our offense and I think people are quick to try to blame Arians for SOME thing that Luck does. Again, I don't think Arians has been perfect either, but I don't think he's to blame for everything like some say act like he is. <br />

<br />

I feel like the biggest problem has been and remains the o-line. If we fix that Luck will be much better. He wont have to be running around for his life behind the line trying to make plays and we can start taking guys like the tightends and backs we have to keep in for protection and putting them out of the backfield to make plays and give Luck more underneath options. Also till we fix the line it doesn't matter what plays are being called what decisions Luck is making he's going to struggle, any QB in the NFL would struggle facing what Luck has faced this year.</p></blockquote>

Then we completely agree! Just that I believe a lot of lucks bad habits are not coincedence. Ben also has those horrible habits and I know not many colts fans give him any credit but he is actually learning to play the poition this year. He looks uncomfortable at times but haley is a good offensive mind who has him playing smart football again. Just saying

[Gavin]

The O Line played like trash in this game pass protection wise, Luck never had a chance and he held onto the ball to long a couple times, both are to blame but the entire O Line should be embarrassed with how most have played this season

[Superman]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="GoColts8818" data-cid="363092" data-time="1355725001"><p>

They don't just call deep routes if you watch those deep routes there is normally.ne guy going deep the rest of the guys are underneath and either not open or Luck isn't throwing the ball to them. Also Luck has missed his fair share of short passes this season too. How many times have we seen him over throw Fleener in the flat? <br />

<br />

Again, I am not trying to rip on Luck here I am just making the point that it's not all the play calling. Luck has made his fair share of mistakes as has just about every other rookie on our offense and I think people are quick to try to blame Arians for SOME thing that Luck does. Again, I don't think Arians has been perfect either, but I don't think he's to blame for everything like some say act like he is. <br />

<br />

I feel like the biggest problem has been and remains the o-line. If we fix that Luck will be much better. He wont have to be running around for his life behind the line trying to make plays and we can start taking guys like the tightends and backs we have to keep in for protection and putting them out of the backfield to make plays and give Luck more underneath options. Also till we fix the line it doesn't matter what plays are being called what decisions Luck is making he's going to struggle, any QB in the NFL would struggle facing what Luck has faced this year.</p></blockquote>

Then we completely agree! Just that I believe a lot of lucks bad habits are not coincedence. Ben also has those horrible habits and I know not many colts fans give him any credit but he is actually learning to play the poition this year. He looks uncomfortable at times but haley is a good offensive mind who has him playing smart football again. Just saying

 

FYI: I was told this block quote glitch has been fixed, but you may need to clear your browser cache and restart your browser.