176 replies to this topic

[dw49]

I posted on another thread that maybe it was the right call as it might be whether or not his arm had started forward. I did just find that this is indeed the case. What constituted that being a pass was not whether or not the knee hit before the ball left Lucks hand. The replay had to show evidence that his arm didn't start forward and I dont think that was conclusive looking at the replay. NFL channel has it wrong for sure , I wonder if ESPN has the ruke wrong also. The two calls for holding and PI sure were bad ones. But then again the missed false start was as bad as it gets.


From Wikipedia...


The moment that a forward pass begins is important to the game. The pass begins the moment the passer's arm begins to move forward

[GoColts8818]

I posted on another thread that maybe it was the right call as it might be whether or not his arm had started forward. I did just find that this is indeed the case. What constituted that being a pass was not whether or not the knee hit before the ball left Lucks hand. The replay had to show evidence that his arm didn't start forward and I dont think that was conclusive looking at the replay. NFL channel has it wrong for sure , I wonder if ESPN has the ruke wrong also. The two calls for holding and PI sure were bad ones. But then again the missed false start was as bad as it gets.


From Wikipedia...


The moment that a forward pass begins is important to the game. The pass begins the moment the passer's arm begins to move forward

His knee was down he was sacked it doesn't matter what his arm was doing because you can't make a pass once sacked and you can't fumble when you are sacked either.

[Steagles]

Well, you can tell by my picture that a split second before his knees hit, he hadn't started forward.  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1355134416.050507.jpg   115.91K   86 downloads


Sorry if the picture is gigantic, I'm uploading from my phone)

[ColtsBlueFL]

I think that is important to bring up. Yes, pass begins when arm starts forward. This is important for tuck rule / fumble purposes. However, if a QB never throws it and is successful on the tuck, and cradles it back in without losing control, it isn't considered a pass attempt, correct? So if the ball never leaves the QB's possession, it isn't a successful attempt either, by deduction By that token, If a player carrying the ball is tackled an any part of the body besides the hand(s) touches the ground, the ball is dead immediately and the play is over. Then, any lateral or pass attempt after that is nullified, yes?

[Indyswagger]

It was a sack by every definition of the word "sack". Nuff said. The officiating in this game was the worst that I have seen in a long time. The NFL should fine refs for obviously bad calls/ no calls.

[ColtsBlueFL]

It was a sack by every definition of the word "sack". Nuff said. The officiating in this game was the worst that I have seen in a long time. The NFL should fine refs for obviously bad calls/ no calls.

Agreed, refs missed this one, and a couple others. We overcame anyway, and that shows true grit.

[HungarianColtsFan]

It was a sack by every definition of the word "sack". Nuff said. The officiating in this game was the worst that I have seen in a long time. The NFL should fine refs for obviously bad calls/ no calls.

Officiating was terrible on NY-NO game as well. Will fans cry for replacement refs?

[Coltscodeblue]

Refs don't get fined for bad calls, all games are reviewed by the top of the officials and the better refs who don't make mistakes or the least amount of mistakes are 1st in line for playoff games which means more game checks and that's the incentive to get the calls right, that what was explained when they had the replacement refs in, but it's by memory and it's been a few weeks, so bet it's not all correct how I explain it. And the new collective agreement might have changed it, And it was a sports radio show...

[NJColtsFan]

Officiating was terrible on NY-NO game as well. Will fans cry for replacement refs?

Possibly, but as another poster stated in another thread; this is just more fuel for the NFL in getting full time refs.
What really bothers me, though is that the replay officials also missed it. Aren't they NFL employees that are not in the referee's union? Those guys have to also be more accountable.
-d.

[HungarianColtsFan]

Possibly, but as another poster stated in another thread; this is just more fuel for the NFL in getting full time refs.
What really bothers me, though is that the replay officials also missed it. Aren't they NFL employees that are not in the referee's union? Those guys have to also be more accountable.
-d.

I think Goodell will act in a way...wonder how?
Perhaps employing full time refs would help, if their performance would be evaluated week by week. Horrendous officiating will kill the show.

[tfunky14]

It was a sack by every definition of the word "sack". Nuff said. The officiating in this game was the worst that I have seen in a long time. The NFL should fine refs for obviously bad calls/ no calls.

I agree

[TKnight85]

Not sure why you used Wikipedia for that, anyone can write on that site. It was a Sack point blank.

I stopped using Wikipedia when someone put that Abraham Lincoln was killed in a driveby by Chuck Norris -_______-

[BrentMc11]

One of the biggest hold-ups in the NFL referee lockout was concerning the evaluation of poor performance by officials. If I recall, the NFL wanted an extra 50-80 officials to train to be ready to step on the field and make effective calls. More importantly.....KNOW THE NFL rule book The Replacements were making up rules, using college rules, and using small college rules.

In addition, the existing officials would be evaluated by performance, and if they were 'awful'/ missing calls on a consistent basis they could issue levels of discipline just like in any union atmosphere. More than likely there would be verbal warnings, written warnings, suspensions......"up to and including discharge" for the consistently poor performers.

I never did hear/read what the league got other than the main referees back. If someone has that info feel free to share.

I for one was appalled by the crew yesterday.....have zero idea how I did not throw the remote or go crazy.......9-4 is awfully sweet though....overcoming the refs and a Titan team that came ready to play!!! !!!!!!!!

Edited by BrentMc11, 10 December 2012 - 08:08 AM.

[Balzer40]

Like others have already said, It was a sack, plain and simple. It is inexcusable that these refs still called it an interception after the benefit of instant replay. It was beyond obvious that the knee was down. It was an obvious incompletion(by Britt) earlier in the game that they also looked at on instant replay and still messed that call up. Then add in the terrible PI calls and that ref crew should be fined, suspended, terminated, something. They were an embarrassment all game.

[shakedownstreet]

i don't see irrefutable evidence to overturn the call

[Indyfan4life]

i don't see irrefutable evidence to overturn the call

You're the only one then.

[Balzer40]

i don't see irrefutable evidence to overturn the call

You can't be serious.

[PrincetonTiger]

He was down

[Dustin]

Regardless, the ref should have given an explanation.

[BrentMc11]

Regardless, the ref should have given an explanation.

"After further review, I ....... the call!" Merry Christmas Tennessee!

[deedub75]

It was called a pass and an interception on the field. There was really not enough conclusive evidence to overturn it.

[TKnight85]

Glad I wasn't watching the game. I would've broke a glass if I saw that happen live (Chat Room Insider)

[Balzer40]

It was called a pass and an interception on the field. There was really not enough conclusive evidence to overturn it.

How is this not enough evidence. The refs have every view that they show on TV. It is beyond obvious.

[shakedownstreet]

his arm is moving forward. it was a pick six

[CardiacColts]

How is this not enough evidence. The refs have every view that they show on TV. It is beyond obvious.

There is really no question that the refs missed that one; however, it did seem like there wasn't enough to overturn it while the ref was under the hood. I agree that very conclusive evidence of Luck being down was eventually released, but that was after like 10 minutes of splicing together frame by frame footage. We are lucky to have gotten out of there with a win yesterday. We just need to learn from our mistakes and remedy these turnovers before heading to Houston.

[Indyfan4life]

his arm is moving forward. it was a pick six

Get your eyes checked and learn the rules. His knee(s) were down before he started to throw the ball. Just because his arm is in a forward motion at the time means nothing.

nfl.com and cbssports.com have been blowing up about this. espn was even all over this incorrect call how it should of been a sack.

[ColtsBlueFL]

There is really no question that the refs missed that one; however, it did seem like there wasn't enough to overturn it while the ref was under the hood. I agree that very conclusive evidence of Luck being down was eventually released, but that was after like 10 minutes of splicing together frame by frame footage. We are lucky to have gotten out of there with a win yesterday. We just need to learn from our mistakes and remedy these turnovers before heading to Houston.

This is not true. The TV crew played this just as they were hitting commercial break while refs were under the hood. That was clue to get my camera and snap this shot



off my TV when they returned from commercial break. I knew it would up again right away. Plus, I hit record on my HD DVR, just so I could pause it.

Now, while I think they cost us a TD there, they gave it back when they didn't call the false start on us when Pat McAfee pinned them in at the 1 yard line. C. Vaughn jumped an out route moments later for the E-Z pick 6.

We had most calls go against us, but we overcame them, as a team is supposed to do. This is great for all the yougsters on our team in their growth curve.

[Balzer40]

There is really no question that the refs missed that one; however, it did seem like there wasn't enough to overturn it while the ref was under the hood. I agree that very conclusive evidence of Luck being down was eventually released, but that was after like 10 minutes of splicing together frame by frame footage. We are lucky to have gotten out of there with a win yesterday. We just need to learn from our mistakes and remedy these turnovers before heading to Houston.

They had this view readily available before the call was upheld. That's why Dan Fouts was flabbergasted as to how the refs blew this call.

[lollygagger8]

His knee was down. After that, the position of his arm doesn't matter.

[BuildTheMonster]

It doesn't matter if his arm is moving forward. His knee was down before the ball left his hand. He still has possession of the ball when his knee is down. If someone is reaching out to get a first down and their knee hits then the ball comes out its not a fumble. Just like his knee is down before he "lost" possession of the ball. They were awful this whole game. Lucky we didn't lose by 6 points or this really would of been a bad call.

I think luck was trying to just throw it at the feet of a WR but wasn't expecting to be taken down so fast. Still a horrible decision on his part.

[Tark The Shark]

Not sure why you used Wikipedia for that, anyone can write on that site. It was a Sack point blank.

I stopped using Wikipedia when someone put that Abraham Lincoln was killed in a driveby by Chuck Norris -_______-

Wait, that didn't happen!?!?!?!

Anyway, yes the officiating was horrible. They kept the Titans 2nd half 3 point drive alive when it should have been a 3 and out. Both the Colts & Titans were hurt by the bad officiating.

[ruksak]

The bad call would never have taken place had Luck not thrown the ball in such a desperate disposition.....directly into the chest of a defender.


Yeah....it was a bad call but we were looking for a bailout and we didn't get one that time....tough cookies.

This is at least the third INT he's thrown while refusing to take the sack. Very typical rookie mistake.

All that said; It was a sack and when the knee is down, the play is dead, period.

[GoodLuck]

LOL at his arm moving. So you're saying he can throw the ball from the ground as long as his arm is moving.

Its like going up for a shot in basketball. If your feet touch the ground before the release, its traveling. When a qb is hit a a knee touches, it's a sack and the play is over.

[Balzer40]

The bad call would never have taken place had Luck not thrown the ball in such a desperate disposition.....directly into the chest of a defender.


Yeah....it was a bad call but we were looking for a bailout and we didn't get one that time....tough cookies.

I agree, it was a bad decision for Luck to try and throw the ball, but the point remains that the refs blew a crucial call even with the benefit of instant replay and they done it twice. The 1st one on the incompletion by Britt was not as obvious and I can understand that, but the sack/Int is inexcusable. These refs fought over the offseason saying that the replacement refs were ruining the game, but if the real refs can't do any better than they did during that game, then they have no business being out there either.

[ruksak]

I agree, it was a bad decision for Luck to try and throw the ball, but the point remains that the refs blew a crucial call even with the benefit of instant replay and they done it twice. The 1st one on the incompletion by Britt was not as obvious and I can understand that, but the sack/Int is inexcusable. These refs fought over the offseason saying that the replacement refs were ruining the game, but if the real refs can't do any better than they did during that game, then they have no business being out there either.

I edited my above post before you posted this to clarify my position.

I agree, that call was one of many bad calls in the game, a few even went in our favor. I'm sure some of those officials are hearing about it this morning.

[Balzer40]

I edited my above post before you posted this to clarify my position.

I agree, that call was one of many bad calls in the game, a few even went in our favor. I'm sure some of those officials are hearing about it this morning.

Yep, didn't see your edit in time.

I hope those refs are getting an ear full today and I hope they get disciplined somehow. Goodell should hold his refs to a higher standard and require them to pay for their terrible mistakes. I'm not saying they need to be perfect but yesterday was one bad call after another and unfortunately, most went against the Colts, although there were a few against Tenn. as well.

[House]

The reason calls like these leave such a bad taste in my mouth, besides being a blown call, is that it leaves me with the impression that if Andrew had miraculously bombed that ball downfield for a TD, they would have reversed that.

I know it might seem paranoid, but I just feel like if we had turned that into a positive play they would have looked at it for more than 2 minutes. Maybe waited for all the camera angles to come back.

I dunno. Maybe I just think the world is out to get my Colts

[deedub75]

How is this not enough evidence. The refs have every view that they show on TV. It is beyond obvious.

His arm was moving forward before his knee went down. You just can't please some people on here. If a Colts player had caught the ball you would have been screaming that it his knee wasn't down.

[PrincetonTiger]

Water under the Bridge

[House]

His arm was moving forward before his knee went down. You just can't please some people on here. If a Colts player had caught the ball you would have been screaming that it his knee wasn't down.

Honest question. Since when does arm moving forward matter when it comes to being down?

And ontop of that if a Colts player had caught it, by your definition it would have been a legitimate play regardless lol.

Doesn't make sense to me. If the ball is still in your hands when you hit the ground. Play should be dead. Regardless of if it helps or hurts the Colts.