40 replies to this topic

[bayone]

Save for Wayne, who is now Mobile and some D players but now in the 3-4, this is really a new team with new tendencies & playbook and BB has to start from scratch and throw out all his past colt notes

Just may be to our advntage

[Indyfan4life]

Save for Wayne, who is now Mobile and some D players but now in the 3-4, this is really a new team with new tendencies & playbook and BB has to start from scratch and throw out all his past colt notes

Just may be to our advntage

I doubt he'll throw out too much, or at least change some of his playing style up against us.

[bayone]

I doubt he'll throw out too much, or at least change some of his playing style up against us.

we may be able to exploit that weak D though as our offense is new

[jskinnz]

Save for Wayne, who is now Mobile and some D players but now in the 3-4, this is really a new team with new tendencies & playbook and BB has to start from scratch and throw out all his past colt notes

Just may be to our advntage

Not BB's first rodeo. Seriously doubt these are true advantages for the Colts. If the Colts win it will be due to them playing better and not the Pats being caught off guard by something.

[HireBruceArians]

Not BB's first rodeo. Seriously doubt these are true advantages for the Colts. If the Colts win it will be due to them playing better and not the Pats being caught off guard by something.

I agree. Plus, I'm sure he's watching film of the Steelers from previous years when Arians was their coordinator. The Pats have faced the Steelers enough times in the last 5 years to have some level of familiarity with the scheme, at least.

[SLILLINGTON10]

yeah but he has played against BA a few times and i am sure has seen pagano's Defense up in bal a few times as well. all these hc/oc/dc in the league know each other pretty well.

[cjrulli]

I kinda agree with the OP. Not so much that BB doesn't know our players/scheme but more so that the Patriots players themselves have never played against much of our team. They have no idea what to expect. Watch all the film you want but their CBs arent going to know exactly how fast our WRs are until they play. I expect a deep one early on with Avery or Hilton speeding past someone.

[Stephen]

i can see it now patriots corner watches hilton blow past him and is like wow he's faster than on tape

[ViriLudant]

Uh, he's going to have game tape from 8 or 9 prior Colt games. That's good enough.

Not only that, but BB has coached against Pagano and Arian many, many times. You don't think that he's been coaching against great 3-4 teams like the Ravens?

[ColtsHappy]

I agree that the previous games will give him a handle on what we are up to, but you know it created a lot of extra "cramming" on his part - having to work overtime to get a handle on our tendencies and figure out how to scheme against them....

Still a plus for our side of the ledger in my estimation....

Although I wouldn't say it's huge

ColtsHappy

[bayone]

I kinda agree with the OP. Not so much that BB doesn't know our players/scheme but more so that the Patriots players themselves have never played against much of our team. They have no idea what to expect. Watch all the film you want but their CBs arent going to know exactly how fast our WRs are until they play. I expect a deep one early on with Avery or Hilton speeding past someone.

My OP

was Playbooks afc analysis on TV, but all picked Pats in a shoutout with this as a wildcard isuue

[swflacoltsfans]

he has been taping our practices.

[21isSuperman]

It could be an advantage, but I don't think it will have a substantial impact on the game. Belichick's football IQ is extremely high and he already has access to over 2 months of game film to learn our tendency's and what we like to do. It might catch them off guard for a bit, but I think they will adjust quickly.

[throwingBBS]

The Advantage is we are on the road. A negative,
We are playing against a great offense. A negative.
Our roster has been in constant flux due to injury. A negative.

positives: we are improving, Chapman

[Big Red]

BB seemed to figure out Peyton and his tendencies early in Peyton's career. It took almost super-human performances from Peyton for the Colts to get wins against the Pats. Here's hoping Andrew Luck never tries to make the game so cerebral. He's a stud and needs to use all his athletic talents to produce big wins in this league especially against an evil mastermind like BB. Play ball Andrew, you have what it takes. Don't get drawn into the mindgames!

[Brian Casserly]

It's not Xs & Os. It's Jimmys & Joes. The Patriots* do not have better talent on offense than we do. The question is, do we have better talent on defense than they do.

[ColtsBlueFL]

BB almost always changes things up anyway. He's a proactive coach, not reactive. I just don't think is his D overall can execute as well as his scheme would dictate. But their O covers a lot of blemishes. We certainly know how that can work, at least during the regular season.

Looks like the line says we lose 35 - 24, or something similar.

[chad72]

It's not Xs & Os. It's Jimmys & Joes. The Patriots* do not have better talent on offense than we do. The question is, do we have better talent on defense than they do.

I strongly disagree. Fleener and Allen are nowhere close to Gronk and Hernandez, Wayne is the only superior talent on offense over Lloyd. Comparing slot to slot, Welker has better talent than Hilton for what he does in the slot. Yes, I meant talents such as short area quickness and hands. QB - Brady clearly has an edge.

I do think we have better talent on defense in the front 7 than they do, except at NT in Wilfork. Secondary - it depends on how each coached up secondary shows up, that will essentially decide it, IMO

[bayone]

Save for Wayne, who is now Mobile and some D players but now in the 3-4, this is really a new team with new tendencies & playbook and BB has to start from scratch and throw out all his past colt notes

Just may be to our advntage

YAHOO SPORTS thinks same thing Regarding the new Offensive style & arians calling the plays


Indianapolis Colts at New England Patriots
This has been one of the NFL's greatest rivalries over the last decade, and adding Andrew Luck to the mix brings us a new level of drama. Luck's been just as good as we all expected -- if not more so -- and he should be able to continue his success against a Pats defense that has had major problems against the pass over the last few seasons. Adding to Bill Belichick's headaches? This isn't a Colts offense he's ever faced before. The old Colts under Peyton Manning were as vanilla in a formation sense ( just execution was great ) as their uniforms are in a fashion sense. With Luck, and under offensive coordinator/interim head coach Bruce Arians, there's a lot more to watch for. Reggie Wayne plays all over the place, rookie tight end Dwayne Allen has become a short-yardage force, and fellow rookie T.Y. Hilton gives Luck the kind of deep threat he never really had at Stanford. Aqib Talib or not, look for the Pats to struggle against this new multiple offense.
Pick: Colts 27, Patriots 24
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/week-11-sunday-picks-backup-qbs-emerge-war-143145697--nfl.html

[Brian Casserly]

Fleener and Allen are...

...not in the game. Only Allen is. Gronkowski is better than Allen from a production standpoint. I can't say he is more talented though.

Welker is not faster than ANY of our receivers and his hands cost them a super bowl. Only thing he has on any of our other receivers is time in grade. That's it. Not talent.

Reggie is better than all of their receivers.

QB - Brady clearly has an edge.

...Brady is half the QB that Luck is talent-wise. Brady is a system QB. Nothing more.

I do think we have better talent on defense in the front 7 than they do

Sounds good.

it depends on how each coached up secondary shows up, that will essentially decide it, IMO

I'd wager pressure in the pass-rush'll have way more to do with this game than the DBs. Like I said (and the Giants proved) Brady is a system QB. You throw the system out of whack when you pressure him. If Free & Mathis show up, we should do well. Hopefully Chapman plays and draws the double teams.

[Gavin]

...not in the game. Only Allen is. Gronkowski is better than Allen from a production standpoint. I can't say he is more talented though.

Welker is not faster than ANY of our receivers and his hands cost them a super bowl. Only thing he has on any of our other receivers is time in grade. That's it. Not talent.

Reggie is better than all of their receivers.



...Brady is half the QB that Luck is talent-wise. Brady is a system QB. Nothing more.



Sounds good.



I'd wager pressure in the pass-rush'll have way more to do with this game than the DBs. Like I said (and the Giants proved) Brady is a system QB. You throw the system out of whack when you pressure him. If Free & Mathis show up, we should do well. Hopefully Chapman plays and draws the double teams.

While the Brady comment about him being half the QB may warrant some merit down the road, 3 SuperBowl wins later and 5 appearances later tells me while in the beginning the Pats D was the main factor in those early wins it cant be denied that he has gotten there 2 other times with less then stellar defenses, I believe your Brady statement in comparison to Luck will prove to hold water and athletically no question Luck is superior, I wouldnt even think to say Luck is even close to, let alone surpassed Brady's level talent wise or any other. Because thats simply not the case.....yet. Is Manning a system quarterback because many of the same things he and the coaches did in Indy he is doing in Denver with there coaches or because of what the Pats did to him time and time again over the course of his career which was bounce him from the playoffs and dominate the season series

[coltsguy510]

longest title ever..........

[Brian Casserly]

While the Brady comment about him being half the QB may warrant some merit down the road....

??? Try the road they both came from...

Tom Brady was drafted in the SIXTH round (199th overall) and 'graduated' with a Organization Studies degree (WT*?) from Michigan. Andrew Luck was drafted in the 1st round and graduated as the co-valedictorian of his Stanford class with a degree in Architectural Design.

Brains: Luck

Tom Brady hold this many passing records at Michigan: 1

"Most completions in a game (34)"

Andrew Luck holds this many from Stanford (by no means an exhaustive list):

"Touchdown passes (82)"
"Completion percentage (.687; 713-1064)"
"Passing efficiency (162.76)"
"Total offense (10,387)"
"Career wins (31)"
"Winning percentage (.837)"
"Scoring records in 2009 (461), 2010 (524) and 2011 (561)"
"Quarterback rushing total for 957 career yards/163 carries (5.9 avg.)"

Talent: Luck

Tom Brady on his best day and finest hour (that does not involve cheating) cannot carry Andrew Luck's jock-strap.

3 SuperBowl wins later

All of which can be directly attributed to cheating. And AFTER that cheating was uncovered....no Super Bowl wins.

I wouldnt even think to say Luck is even close to, let alone surpassed Brady's level talent wise...

That's unfortunate for you. Because aside from the straight forward college numbers and general commonsense test, his combine numbers continue the route.

Brady
40 Yard Dash: 5.28 seconds
20 Yard Dash: 2.94 seconds
10 Yard Dash: 1.70 seconds
Bench Press: N/A reps (225 lb)
Vertical Leap: 24.5 inches
Broad Jump: 99 inches
Shuttle: 4.38
Three Cone: 7.20

Luck
40 Yard Dash: 4.67 seconds
20 Yard Dash: N/A seconds
10 Yard Dash: N/A seconds
Bench Press: N/A reps (225 lb)
Vertical Leap: 36.0 inches
Broad Jump: 124 inches
Shuttle: 4.28
Three Cone: 6.80

All of this taken together and it is obvious which QB is more talented.

[Gavin]

??? Try the road they both came from...

Tom Brady was drafted in the SIXTH round (199th overall) and 'graduated' with a Organization Studies degree (WT*?) from Michigan. Andrew Luck was drafted in the 1st round and graduated as the co-valedictorian of his Stanford class with a degree in Architectural Design.

Brains: Luck

Tom Brady hold this many passing records at Michigan: 1

"Most completions in a game (34)"

Andrew Luck holds this many from Stanford (by no means an exhaustive list):

"Touchdown passes (82)"
"Completion percentage (.687; 713-1064)"
"Passing efficiency (162.76)"
"Total offense (10,387)"
"Career wins (31)"
"Winning percentage (.837)"
"Scoring records in 2009 (461), 2010 (524) and 2011 (561)"
"Quarterback rushing total for 957 career yards/163 carries (5.9 avg.)"

Talent: Luck

Tom Brady on his best day and finest hour (that does not involve cheating) cannot carry Andrew Luck's jock-strap.



All of which can be directly attributed to cheating. And AFTER that cheating was uncovered....no Super Bowl wins.



That's unfortunate for you. Because aside from the straight forward college numbers and general commonsense test, his combine numbers continue the route.

Brady
40 Yard Dash: 5.28 seconds
20 Yard Dash: 2.94 seconds
10 Yard Dash: 1.70 seconds
Bench Press: N/A reps (225 lb)
Vertical Leap: 24.5 inches
Broad Jump: 99 inches
Shuttle: 4.38
Three Cone: 7.20

Luck
40 Yard Dash: 4.67 seconds
20 Yard Dash: N/A seconds
10 Yard Dash: N/A seconds
Bench Press: N/A reps (225 lb)
Vertical Leap: 36.0 inches
Broad Jump: 124 inches
Shuttle: 4.28
Three Cone: 6.80

All of this taken together and it is obvious which QB is more talented.

So we are really using Combine numbers to prove Luck is the superior QB? Has Luck led us to 5 Super Bowl appearances with 3 wins? has he been a 2 time Super Bowl MVP, a comeback player of the year award, broke records, have a 63.9 completion percentage for his career? Lets not jump the gun because Luck is the better athlete and can build things unless that building involves records and championships

[Gavin]

Okay, are you dense or just intentionally disagreeable? I said "Talent". Not NFL accomplishments. Stop being a hayseed.

I still dont know what Lucks college stats and accomplishments have to do with Brady who has consistently (key word there) played well. Lucks played very good for a rookie but all the talent in the world dont mean a thing if you dont go out and show it over a along period of time, which I think he will, but he isn't in Brady's league yet

[QwizBoy]

Okay, are you dense or just intentionally disagreeable? I said "Talent". Not NFL accomplishments. Stop being a hayseed.

Not trying to interrupt, but I think a first ballot Hall of Fame quarterback is more talented than a rookie who has played 9 games this year. 12 will reach his own highs, I'm sure, but right now, he and Brady, nor Manning, nor Brees, are at the same level of talent.

[Brian Casserly]

facepalm

[04DarkShadowGT]

facepalm

That is pretty much the same reaction everyone else got from all of your posts in this thread.

[TMPHBITEU]

??? Try the road they both came from...

Tom Brady was drafted in the SIXTH round (199th overall) and 'graduated' with a Organization Studies degree (WT*?) from Michigan. Andrew Luck was drafted in the 1st round and graduated as the co-valedictorian of his Stanford class with a degree in Architectural Design.

Brains: Luck

Tom Brady hold this many passing records at Michigan: 1

"Most completions in a game (34)"

Andrew Luck holds this many from Stanford (by no means an exhaustive list):

"Touchdown passes (82)"
"Completion percentage (.687; 713-1064)"
"Passing efficiency (162.76)"
"Total offense (10,387)"
"Career wins (31)"
"Winning percentage (.837)"
"Scoring records in 2009 (461), 2010 (524) and 2011 (561)"
"Quarterback rushing total for 957 career yards/163 carries (5.9 avg.)"

Talent: Luck

Tom Brady on his best day and finest hour (that does not involve cheating) cannot carry Andrew Luck's jock-strap.



All of which can be directly attributed to cheating. And AFTER that cheating was uncovered....no Super Bowl wins.



That's unfortunate for you. Because aside from the straight forward college numbers and general commonsense test, his combine numbers continue the route.



All of this taken together and it is obvious which QB is more talented.

How is being drafted in XX round any indication of "brains"? If we define intelligence as IQ, yes, Luck may very well be ahead of Brady, yet you show no proof. This is like saying that a person with a 98.5th percentile IQ working construction has less brains than a medical doctor in the 90th percentile. Your merits does in no way define intelligence. Your merits define "succes". The only thing their draft status tells you, is how scouts perceived to be their talent to be at the time of the draft. It doesn't tell you anything about the actual talent.

As for "talent" or to use another word "potential": You guys are really just arguing semantics. How do you choose to define talent?
1. The QB position is arguably the most cerebral position in all of sports. IQ or "football-IQ" (which is a phantom word without any actual meaning) are both closely related to this position.
2. Athleticism plays a big part as well.
3. Talent could be (overly) simplified as athleticism + IQ.

Note, Charlie, I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with your end result. I'm saying you didn't qualify or argue properly as to how you got there.

As for your "Brady is a cheater comment", that's all fine and dandy. That's your opinion, but they're really just words without any further arguments to support your claim. Yes, he hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2004, yet football is a team game, so the fact that Brady hasn't won anything since 2004 (apart from AFC Championships), doesn't exactly say anything about Tom Brady's talent. You are oversimplying a complicated matter to make it fit your facts.

I still dont know what Lucks college stats and accomplishments have to do with Brady who has consistently (key word there) played well. Lucks played very good for a rookie but all the talent in the world dont mean a thing if you dont go out and show it over a along period of time, which I think he will, but he isn't in Brady's league yet

Not trying to interrupt, but I think a first ballot Hall of Fame quarterback is more talented than a rookie who has played 9 games this year. 12 will reach his own highs, I'm sure, but right now, he and Brady, nor Manning, nor Brees, are at the same level of talent.

Again, you guys are arguing semantics. Charlie was, I believe, trying to say talent equals potential. Based on this, Luck might be the more talented quarterback.

If talent equals succes, then Brady is clearly the most talented of the two at this current time.

That is pretty much the same reaction everyone else got from all of your posts in this thread.

Not everyone, though.

[HireBruceArians]

Okay, are you dense or just intentionally disagreeable? I said "Talent". Not NFL accomplishments. Stop being a hayseed.

Brady's experience trumps Luck's talent at this point. End of story

[PrincetonTiger]

Not BB's first rodeo. Seriously doubt these are true advantages for the Colts. If the Colts win it will be due to them playing better and not the Pats being caught off guard by something.

agreed

[PrincetonTiger]

There is no real advantage

[Brian Casserly]

LOL

Larry Bird was more talented than Michael Jordan...because when Jordan was drafted, the Celtics had accomplished more.

[TMPHBITEU]

LOL

Larry Bird was more talented than Michael Jordan...because when Jordan was drafted, the Celtics had accomplished more.

Either you didn't read my post, or you don't understand the word "semantics".

I'm assuming you didn't make this in reply to my post, but rather for the others who have disagreed with you.

I completely undestand their confusion in this thread. Based on:

It's not Xs & Os. It's Jimmys & Joes. The Patriots* do not have better talent on offense than we do. The question is, do we have better talent on defense than they do.

You seem to think that "talent"/"potential" is what is most important on game day, not current level of ability. Which of course would be silly.

[HireBruceArians]

LOL

Larry Bird was more talented than Michael Jordan...because when Jordan was drafted, the Celtics had accomplished more.

You're all over the place. What is your argument again?

First off, trying to use a basketball analogy in football doesn't usually translate that well... but for the sake of debate, I'll entertain it. No one here is saying that Tom Brady is more physically talented than Andrew Luck... Just as no one would argue that Larry Bird was more physically talented than Michael Jordan was in his rookie season. However, if we could somehow travel back to 1985 and asked who was the better player of the 2, i'm almost positive the majority of sports fans and journalists would say Bird. Throughout much of the 80's and into the 90's, Jordan was perceived as just another high volume scorer who couldn't translate any of his individual greatness into championships, whereas Bird had already established a certain level of pedigree by the time Jordan entered the league. In Jordan's rookie season, he was clearly the best talent in the league, but he wasn't the best PLAYER in the league (yet.) Bird had the advantage of 6 additional years of (winning) experience in the league than Jordan. Jordan became the greatest ever because he learned from guys like Bird and Magic. He didn't come out the gate with this all encompassing knowledge for the game of basketball -- he grew into it over time.

To tie this back to the topic at hand, Luck is a better talent than Brady, but Brady is the better quarterback (right now)..... And right now is all that matters, when speaking of the outcome of today's game. Potential is irrelevant

[Brian Casserly]

My arguement has been the same from the beginning; Andrew Luck is more talented than Tom Brady. Stop rambling about if you do not even know what you're (for some unknown reason) opposing.

[Brian Casserly]

Either you didn't read my post, or..."

You nailed it.

[TMPHBITEU]

You nailed it.

FYI: My post was a helping hand explaining what you were trying to say.

A mistake I won't make twice.

P.S. I don't really believe you didn't read it. It seems more plausible that you failed to understand the word "semantics". Or logic for that matter - ironically enough considering your profile information.

[Indyfan4life]

This idea that Luck is a better QB than Brady has provided loads of entertainment for a slow work day.

Thanks!

[chrisfarley]

BB has always had our number (well not always) but you know from a defensive preparation standpoint. Even with a first ballot hall of famer in Manning, it's still took Manning everything he had and all his wits to counter BB. He will game plan for Luck with full intensity and try to embarass us, has BB ever called off the dogs when he has a huge lead, never!